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Originally Posted by stato
So tonight we have just witnessed the Labour council admit they are moving ahead with the release of green belt. They can stop this yet have chosen not to.

Liberal and Conservative Councillors all opposed, Only Labour Councillors in support!!!

What an absolute disgrace, these people aren't councillors, they are crooks, they certainly don't represent the people of Wirral.


There are seven Labour individuals who will against the will of everyone else vote the destruction of our green belt through, Why? What's in it for them? When they state they don't want to yet are backing it all the way when it comes to the actual vote, serious questions have to raised regarding there true motive for this.


Plenty of back handers or maybe the land has already been allocated to builders, and it'll cost too much to grab it back. Is that possible ?

So it has to be assumed, that if the Lib/Dems and Tories opposed it, then the fact must be that it can be opposed and does not have to go through !

I also assume that the labour councillor for Pensby/Thingwall who, in the meeting he held at St. Michaels Church Hall a few weeks ago, vowed he would not be in favour of this, would do everything he could to stop it and would vote against it, has actually done the exact opposite ! The same councillor who voted for the development at Hoylake .

There's a lot of sour grapes , I believe , but looking at the suggested green belt sites, the stretch of land along the M53 is huge.

Good luck to them. Irby is built on clay, and they had enough problems with the Wimpey Houses when that estate was built .

I must say that the petition that has been raised is very disappointing. Only 4,000 signatures so far, so we have to assume that most of the public of Wirral are in favour.


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Of course the opposition parties voted against it to make themselves look like the good guys protecting the greenbelt but of course their vote made no difference to the outcome and they don't get the fallout.

If the vote had blocked the greenbelt release, the Council would have been non-compliant with Government policy and in would come the Government takeover of the Council. Once that process starts it all goes pear shaped with the Council continuing to get the blame for all that ensues even they are no longer in control.

Have a look at what happened to Thanet over building control.

Have a look at what happened to Northamptonshire over finances.

In both cases the Council gets the blame but it is Government policy and Government intervention that is causing the problems.

Here are two predictions from my crystal ball (provided we remain under a Tory Government).

Firstly, never mind what happens with Brexit (stay, leave, deal or no deal), the Government will use the outcome to justify even more cuts to local Councils.

Secondly, the flow of money to the richest from the poorest will increase.

We have the worst performing Government ever but the focus is on the opposition party, you couldn't make it up! I bet the average person knows more about members of the shadow cabinet than the Government cabinet. Why are we not focussed on the Government and its actions? Talk about deception and deflection, this Government is a master of it.

The Government's official propaganda line on housing is that they want to build more to bring house prices down, which would be very commendable if it was true but its not true. Every time house prices drop, they go into a mad panic about the collapse of the housing market which proves what a lie their incentive is. The real incentive is for money to be transferred to rich investors who fund the developers and invest in property. Having a five year float of housing (their target) is yet another tax on the poor if you follow the money trail.


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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Of course the opposition parties voted against it to make themselves look like the good guys protecting the greenbelt but of course their vote made no difference to the outcome and they don't get the fallout.

If the vote had blocked the greenbelt release, the Council would have been non-compliant with Government policy and in would come the Government takeover of the Council. Once that process starts it all goes pear shaped with the Council continuing to get the blame for all that ensues even they are no longer in control.

Have a look at what happened to Thanet over building control.

Have a look at what happened to Northamptonshire over finances.

In both cases the Council gets the blame but it is Government policy and Government intervention that is causing the problems.

Here are two predictions from my crystal ball (provided we remain under a Tory Government).

Firstly, never mind what happens with Brexit (stay, leave, deal or no deal), the Government will use the outcome to justify even more cuts to local Councils.

Secondly, the flow of money to the richest from the poorest will increase.

We have the worst performing Government ever but the focus is on the opposition party, you couldn't make it up! I bet the average person knows more about members of the shadow cabinet than the Government cabinet. Why are we not focussed on the Government and its actions? Talk about deception and deflection, this Government is a master of it.

The Government's official propaganda line on housing is that they want to build more to bring house prices down, which would be very commendable if it was true but its not true. Every time house prices drop, they go into a mad panic about the collapse of the housing market which proves what a lie their incentive is. The real incentive is for money to be transferred to rich investors who fund the developers and invest in property. Having a five year float of housing (their target) is yet another tax on the poor if you follow the money trail.



I understand when people want to defend the party they love, but we have to remember this isnt the labour party. This is a corrupt self centered single minded set of individuals masquerading as labour.

If I was Phil D, I would show the people of Wirral I oppose this and explain (if it is indeed the case) that by standing up for what is right the government will now take over. How can this be any worse than what they are currently proposing or dealing with at WBC.

By showing weakness in this way and complying just to save there skins just shows what a bunch of complete losers we have in charge at WBC.

They should fall on there sword and do the right thing, whatever the consequence.

Seriously what can the Government do when they take over that could be in any way worse?

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What I can't understand is that Feb 2018 WMBC has already secured £6million towards 1,100 new homes by 2025.

http://ymliverpool.com/wirral-1000-new-homes/31105

Peel Holdings 14 March 2018 : Peel announces major milestone for Wirral Waters

Once complete, Wirral Waters will deliver up to 20m sq. ft of floor space – more than the equivalent of 300 football pitches – including 4m sq. ft of office space, up to 13,000 residential units and 1m sq. ft of industrial space at MEA Park.

These projects have been assisted by the announcement from the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government of a £6m HIF (Housing Infrastructure Fund) allocation to Wirral Waters.


https://www.wirralwaters.co.uk/news/peel-announces-major-milestone-wirral-waters/


Wirral Waters: November 2016 : Wirral Waters named one of six new Housing Zones

Developers will also be able to apply for funding from the government’s Home Building Fund, which is making £3 billion available to house builders.

https://www.wirralwaters.co.uk/news/wirral-waters-named-one-six-new-housing-zones/

So is Wirral getting two lots of funding, which they've already applied for, and for double the housing. 13,000 Wirral Waters , and another 12,000 in addition, threatening Green Belt ?

That's a total of 25,000 new homes on Wirral and the council is getting funding for both projects ? That's not the criteria so maybe the council just want to land grab now, whilst the going is good. We don't need 25,000 new homes on Wirral, surely.

I see there's a petition out against Joe Anderson selling off Calderstones Park for the same reason. People of Liverpool are needless to say far more concerned , and they have 35,000 signatures already.
The whole thing looks like a desperate act for a reason that is being kept from us...... or is it that developers are allowed to pick and choose their land ? If that's the case, the fact is it's not their land to pick and choose from .


Last edited by granny; 11th Sep 2018 9:30am.

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Originally Posted by stato
I understand when people want to defend the party they love, but we have to remember this isnt the labour party. This is a corrupt self centered single minded set of individuals masquerading as labour.


Believe me, I don't like our Labour Council one little bit but that doesn't bias me into slagging them off when blame is not (entirely) due. The Tory Government is far more insidious than our Council and deserve lambasting for all the suffering they are creating.


Originally Posted by granny
What I can't understand is that Feb 2018 WMBC has already secured £6million towards 1,100 new homes by 2025.


That grant was towards the infrastructure to facilitate new homes, it wasn't for use of building any homes, Peel have probably managed to extract most of that money already which will have paid for things to be done to Peel property at the taxpayers expense. That's how Peel works, they extract money from Councils but hardly ever deliver their promises on the expected timescale.

One tactical advantage of releasing the greenbelt is it could develop a race between Peel on their land and the potential of another developer on the former greenbelt. Peel's land will be considerably devalued if large developments happen nearby so this might actually kick Peel into action first and hence cancel the need for the use of greenbelt land, parallel development would be financially disastrous to all parties and probably lead to abandoned projects.


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Originally Posted by stato
Seriously what can the Government do when they take over that could be in any way worse?


Wirral so far hasn't done so bad out of the Government's austerity cuts. Other Councils have had to close the majority of libraries, close children's playgrounds, sell off local parkland, sell off sites of special interest, sell off parts of national parks, sell of profitable assets such as rentable buildings and farms, sell off main museums etc etc

The Councils are highly dependent on discretionary grants from the Government, you show any non-compliance with Government policy and those grants dry up.

Many grants are arbitrary/subjective, there is no precise formula for entitlement nor amount, there is no formal appeal process, the Government says no and you lose them. Many of our recent road repair works have been from grants, the street light program is mostly funded from grants and I'm sure many more. We need those grants to survive, we cannot afford to piss off the Government.


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Obviously a lot of water has already gone under the bridge... one wonders how much !


https://wirralleaks.wordpress.com/2...yre-not-happy-bunnies-at-claremont-farm/



Last edited by granny; 15th Sep 2018 10:21pm.

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Originally Posted by granny
Obviously a lot of water has already gone under the bridge... one wonders how much !


https://wirralleaks.wordpress.com/2...yre-not-happy-bunnies-at-claremont-farm/



This one I find quite interesting as I spoke with the Lancelyn Greens a few months back and they were opposed, so much so there solicitor was writing to WBC. Obviously someone isn't telling the whole truth! The Wirral Waters letter may actually finally see Big Phil Walk, and good riddance.

We just need someone now with a backbone who will stand up for the Wirral.

Another interesting part in the WBC presentation, the additional 20% they added onto the numbers! this was added because they already knew they were going to fail with there brownfield projections, and will allow greenbelt to suffer because of there incompetence.

The Claremont farm post has been very useful as more and more people are not starting to realise how corrupt our council is. The writing is on the wall for big Phil, just hope his band of puppets go with him

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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
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The Office of National Statistics (ONS) review has reduced the requirement of new homes in Wirral from 803 to 478 a year.

This shows yet another idiocy of the Government forcing Councils to produce figures that comply with their own immediately before reviewing their own Government figures. Now every Council will have to amend all the documents they have been forced to produce.

Also it has been a waste of time and effort of having the public consultations before the review.


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DUH... I wonder when they will become aware of the benefits of joined-up thinking? What a waste of resources...

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Its still far too high, when you look at actual completions on Wirral, Which is the real 'need' driven through supply and demand.

But its a good start, highlighting the ridiculous numbers that have been banded about by WBC.

https://johnbrace.com/

The local plan consultation (sham) must now be stopped, I have not had any feedback to any questions raised and it would appear neither has anyone else. The analysis is flawed and full or errors. I checked just one land parcel (SP043) as WBC seemed to single this one and a couple of others out, and it had over 50 concerns and errors in the data provided. The documents are way out of date and not complete. No highways assessments or environmental impact assessments.

The biggest mistake is assessing land parcels that aren't actually developable (SP043) so they can class them as 'highly enclosed'. They will then chop the site up into developable parcels under the pretense they are also highly enclosed. Its a disgrace.


WBC's slogan 'we are brownfield first' ! This statement keeps being banded about by the WBC numpties yet there is nothing in there local plan of how this will be actually achieved. Show us how your going to actually enforce 'we are brownfield first'

Two more WBC numpties have just resigned, Big Phil you cant hang on for much longer can you?

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Originally Posted by stato
But its a good start, highlighting the ridiculous numbers that have been banded about by WBC.


Not WBC it was Government figures and calculations that WBC quoted.


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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by stato
But its a good start, highlighting the ridiculous numbers that have been banded about by WBC.


Not WBC it was Government figures and calculations that WBC quoted.


Im still not 100% convinced its just a Government number, but okay if it is, does this mean the Local plan (proposed) will have to be changed and we may now see the green belt being left alone? We broadly have enough on brownfield to meet the new figure.


The reason I ask is this would appear to do exactly what Wirral residents want (not destroy the green belt) but will WBC react or just carry on regardless?


The reason I say this is I'm not sure there isn't some other motivation at WBC to go along with the inflated figures.


I sincerely hope not for the sake of 1000s of wirral residents whos minds could be put at ease that they wont see our green belt destroyed?

I will ask David Ball and encourage others to do the same, see if he can manage to answer this simple question, If they (WNC) are genuine 'brownfield first' hopefully we will see a swift response!

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Yes, the local plan etc will be changed to match the new Government figures, as the release date of this review has been known about for ages it shows how ludicrous it was that they had to create the local plan before it. However, some of these documents are not living documents so may need to wait to its next period - I forget which docs are on what cycle.


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