Lets not kid ourselves, the only reason developers build on greenfield sites over brown is due to pre-construction costs (far cheaper to start building on a field) and location.
New builds seem to be 4,5,6 bedroom places. Nobody is going to want one on somewhere like HERE.
I agree, The problem is though if we let this happen it wont be for the benefit of the Wirral.
Anyone who is able to afford one of these 4,5,6 bed houses isn't likely to work on the Wirral, More likely they will commute to Manchester, Liverpool etc. The reason they will move here would be for the Greenbelt views (or whats left of it)
Wirral Council are in panic mode and hell bent on blaming others, its a real shame as this will inevitably lead to our greenbelt being used for building and the sites like those you posted remaining derelict.
It would be really useful if there was someone who knew how this could actually be stopped. At the moment the Planning Committee under Phils Guidance will always vote 7:6 in favor of development on Greenebelt. They will also attempt to claim they have to do this to meet a Legal obligation. It stinks, Watch Phil Davies admit the numbers are wrong but he is powerless to stop it on the Webcast via Wirral Website.
Make no mistake WBC have already made there mind up, WBC wont pay a blind bit of attention to the consultation. Something stronger is needed like legal action to prevent this now.
As I said it would be of great benefit if anyone did know how it could be stopped?
There are loads of two and three bedroom houses being built on Wirral at the moment, there is also always a need for bigger houses (5+ beds) but there aren't many of those being built for sale.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
I agree, The problem is though if we let this happen it wont be for the benefit of the Wirral.
Anyone who is able to afford one of these 4,5,6 bed houses isn't likely to work on the Wirral, More likely they will commute to Manchester, Liverpool etc. The reason they will move here would be for the Greenbelt views (or whats left of it)
Wirral Council are in panic mode and hell bent on blaming others, its a real shame as this will inevitably lead to our greenbelt being used for building and the sites like those you posted remaining derelict.
It would be really useful if there was someone who knew how this could actually be stopped. At the moment the Planning Committee under Phils Guidance will always vote 7:6 in favor of development on Greenebelt. They will also attempt to claim they have to do this to meet a Legal obligation. It stinks, Watch Phil Davies admit the numbers are wrong but he is powerless to stop it on the Webcast via Wirral Website.
Make no mistake WBC have already made there mind up, WBC wont pay a blind bit of attention to the consultation. Something stronger is needed like legal action to prevent this now.
As I said it would be of great benefit if anyone did know how it could be stopped?
If the land is used by the owners, then is it still open for compulsory purchase ? If it isn't, can we spread all the horses and cattle out for grazing land. We have been threatened with food shortages after Brexit by those who don't want it. Maximise the land now for the next few years for raising livestock and grain harvest, or even crops and maize for animal feed, should our summers be getting hotter and drier and reduced stock for winter fodder.
There are enough large houses on Wirral have a look along the Meols strip, Hoylake , Caldy, Heswall, Irby, they don't need any more 4/5 beds. For every 4/5 Bed house with double garage and plot to compliment. at least 2 3 bedroom semi detached houses could be built. Over all reducing the amount of land required . If some of the run down areas were also rebuilt that would at least include decent homes and more pleasant surroundings and contribute to the overall figures of new homes. Alternatively, the old rundown properties are likely to remain for a much longer time, without any improvements .
Last edited by granny; 6th Aug 20186:47pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
That's right, that is why there aren't many developers creating new builds for the 4+ bed, <£700,000 market at the moment.
Part of the reason there are so many higher priced houses on the market is that a temporary interruption to the natural upward flow of house ownership has occurred, partly by creating new build and partly because the cuts in income. The news today shows the extremely rare occurrence of rents being reduced for the Wirral.
The Government has set arbitrary new build targets which aren't based on demand. The Council has zero input on these target figures, they are imposed.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
There are 6000+ empty properties though in need of being forced back into the market place, perhaps WBC could look into that?
What there is a demand for is single occupancy homes / flats due to Wirrals aging population, This would in turn 'free' up family homes from where the single occupants have once been.
'Think outside the box' is what I believe Council Leader Phil Davies stated was needed.
Building on greenbelt is hardly thinking at all, more like brown envelopes filled with cash eh Phil?
Half your housing shortage is sorted just from sorting out the empty properties.
Try building what we do actually need (single occupancy housing) allowing housing of all sizes to naturally be released back into the market and maybe you could be actually be thinking outside the box Phil.
There are 6000+ empty properties though in need of being forced back into the market place, perhaps WBC could look into that?
Labour introduced law that enabled this to happen, the Tories changed that law making it virtually impossible for the Council to be able to do this.
The Council is snookered, the Government is controlling what Councils do.
The Government has set a target of 12,000 new builds in 15 years for the Wirral, the Council has to specify where these could be built.
I think your 6000 figure is a bit high for Wirral Council's area, I believe the current figure is somewhere between 2000 and 3000 and that is homes, not properties.
Last edited by diggingdeeper; 6th Aug 20189:47pm. Reason: qty
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
WBC have actually set the demand through the creation of the SHLAA which they commissioned and then sent to Whitehall for approval. So actually WBC have created there own mess.
What they can do though (WBC) is acknowledge the data they used to create this ridiculous demand is flawed and needs re assessing.
This is the only way to get a true Local Plan that actually does what it needs to.
Rental on the Wirral has decreased whilst everywhere else has increased over 5%, this is supply and Demand at work nothing else. Another clear signal that Wirral does not have a housing shortage or need for 800+ houses per year
That is not correct, the SHLAA was produced in accordance with the demands of the NPPF which is produced by the Government. However I am fairly sure the goal posts were changed by the Government after the last Wirral SHLAA.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
"The Government has produced a standard method for calculating the minimum number of homes needed in a local authority area. This is based on nationally-published population and household projections. This calculation shows an overall minimum need for new housing of 12,045 new dwellings over 15 years, equal to 803 dwellings per year (net of demolitions). "
The Government set the method of calculation and hence the final target, the Council cannot control this, if Council calculations come up with smaller numbers the Government over-rules them.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
The Evidence Base comes from Wirral Borough Council, which is then sent to Whitehall for approval, It does use the NPFF yes but that only sets the rules, it doesn't provide the Evidence base to calculate the numbers. This comes via Wirral Borough Council
The SHMA is to big to attach but its one of the most important to read. Wirral Borough Council Appointed (NLP) its this Evidence that has been used to set the housing target. Its this Evidence which is fundamentally flawed
Its the SHMA that needs to be corrected via WBC
The SHLAA also contains a lot of errors in how the 5 planning rules have been applied but thats separate and just an issue of WBC incompetence.
What we need to happen is an acknowledgement that the numbers are wrong and a promise that they will be reassessed using competent people who actually know the area rather than an out of town consultancy.
Anyone who is able to afford one of these 4,5,6 bed houses isn't likely to work on the Wirral, More likely they will commute to Manchester, Liverpool etc. The reason they will move here would be for the Greenbelt views (or whats left of it)
You're right. The massive building schemes on former farmland and fields to the north of Preston, and on the outskirts of Southport are being sold with the taglines of ideal commuting distance to Manchester, Preston, Blackpool and Lancaster.
Does the Govt 12000 homes figure actually state size of houses? They must have calculated the potential population increase to be far more then 12000 people. That would be an interesting document as it would show the anticipated numbers of children, elderly etc..
I noticed a large building site starting in a field on saughall massey road near Girtrell Road ----- oops just realised its the new fire station. not a housing development.
I cant see a joined up approach either. Just over in Little Sutton Redrow are building a massive housing estate over 4 phases. 1000s of houses. It spans all the way from Little Sutton to Capenhurst!
The M53 in both Cheshire and Wirral are becoming swamped with developments. How many have the misfortune of trying to get back onto the Wirral between 4 and 7pm. The Roads cannot cope, it is at walking pace everyday from Cheshire oaks all the way upto the Eastham junction.
Any poor soul thinking they might want to go to the croft at the weekend from west wirral has to endure the pain that is spital crossroads and the rounadabout at the bottom of the dip, there is no other way across the Wirral from Heswall or Clatterbridge. When will the Council learn it cannot keep shoe horning housing in every orifice of the Wirral and expect the already dated infrastructure to take the load.
Just look at the state of the A41! does anyone remember when this road was set up so you could drive at 40mph and the lights would all be on green? now even contemplating using this road means enduring a set of traffic lights every couple of hundred metres, what type of qualifications do these town planners have?
