WikiWirral values you and your opinion.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,019,367
Topics75,082
Members13,032
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs15
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
46 registered members (alan128, 8 invisible), 1,342 guests, and367 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
When will we learn
by casper. 20th Jul 2019 8:14pm
HMS Li WO
by casper. 18th Jul 2019 7:39pm
EU Successes
by diggingdeeper. 11th Jul 2019 3:39pm
Harry Brown
by cools. 10th Jul 2019 2:06pm
New Wirral History
Unidentified Dredgers
by locomotive. 23rd Jun 2019 8:18pm
Cheshire Tithe Maps Online
by yoller. 21st Jun 2019 11:42am
POW Camp, Bidston WW1
by bert1. 23rd Nov 2012 7:12am
721 E.S.W.A club 54-56 Park Road South Birkenhead
by derekdwc. 1st Jul 2012 10:33am
ABC Cinema
by pablo42. 3rd Apr 2012 9:21am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
WW1 Monument, Birkenhead
Topic Replies
What song are you listening to?
by Dilly. 21st Jul 2019 11:11pm
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:07pm
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:03pm
iPad mini
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 9:13pm
Wirral Crime Yesterday
by svenlock68. 21st Jul 2019 7:50pm
Someone yelling - Rock Lane West, Rock Ferry
by Littlebear. 21st Jul 2019 5:13pm
4 in 1 trike
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 11:50am
Set Your Clocks
by granny. 20th Jul 2019 11:56am
Body repairs
by _Ste_. 19th Jul 2019 11:40pm
July
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Cheshire Live Steamers
by muzzy2. 18th Jul 2019 9:28am
Death Cafe Wirral - this time at Stollies
by martinharris. 28th Jun 2019 3:43pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Another Parking Ticket #1056143
18th Jun 2018 12:52am
18th Jun 2018 12:52am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
Popped over to a church in Liverpool . Whole area was either meters with a 2 hour max £4.40 which was no good as service was 2 hours long at least. Rest of the streets were single yellow but with no time designation saying when you could park. Managed to find a space where the yellow line had been removed and tarmaced over giving the impression of a parking space... so squeezed in imbetween the 2 ends of the single yellow. Got a ticket! Took a load of photos for my evidence but noticed the photos on Liverpool council website even show there is no yellow line.... Made an informal challenge to it..

Attached Files 20180617_180507.jpg
Google Ads
Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056144
18th Jun 2018 6:13am
18th Jun 2018 6:13am
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4
Moreton
D
Dougiem Offline
Beginner
Dougiem  Offline
Beginner
D
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4
Moreton
Good luck with the appeal, could also tell them that rule 238 of the highway code states you can't park on yellow lines and it's obvious that the lines have been removed and there should also be a timeplate on a post or street lamp nearby showing the times of restricted parking. Think someone was too eager to give a ticket out to think about the legality of it !

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: Dougiem] #1056145
18th Jun 2018 7:02am
18th Jun 2018 7:02am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
Originally Posted by Dougiem
Good luck with the appeal, could also tell them that rule 238 of the highway code states you can't park on yellow lines and it's obvious that the lines have been removed and there should also be a timeplate on a post or street lamp nearby showing the times of restricted parking. Think someone was too eager to give a ticket out to think about the legality of it !


Not sure about the timeplate thing ..will check the code but i think it says if there isnt one then you cant park. had missus check on phone while we were there. The area is deserted on a sunday and the only couple of cars we saw were parked at meters. Also heard that the church had come to some arrangement with the council about parking on sunday. Dont know what people do around there in the week as 2 hours max on a parking meter is not much if you work there. Area back of T J Hughes ff London Road..

The pastor of the church told the congregation he had spotted the warden and 3 or 4 people left. Heard the warden ask a couple of people to move as they had parked between the yellow line and the church building..not really a pavement. I didnt bother as the only place to move to was a meter and I was in that couldnt give a monkeys mood so bring it on council..

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056147
18th Jun 2018 9:23am
18th Jun 2018 9:23am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
Originally Posted by fish5133
Rest of the streets were single yellow but with no time designation saying when you could park.


They got rid of the old individual signs is many towns and cities years ago in favour of "controlled zones":

https://liverpool.gov.uk/parking-travel-and-roads/controlled-parking-zones/

Quote
A controlled parking zone (CPZ) is an area where all on street parking is controlled. When you enter a zone there are entry signs to tell you what restrictions apply within it. When you are in a zone, parking is only allowed in designated parking bays. Waiting restrictions (yellow lines) apply everywhere else.

There is no free parking within the city centre between 8am and 6pm.



Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056148
18th Jun 2018 1:32pm
18th Jun 2018 1:32pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,616
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,616
Wirral
Think you may be a bit snookered fish - last course of action to try if all else fails is compassionate grounds. --Oh, Im sorry to hear that fish, your poor old granny !

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056152
18th Jun 2018 3:46pm
18th Jun 2018 3:46pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
As far as I am aware, the CPZ only removes the requirement for sign posts, it doesn't remove the requirement for a yellow lines ie the CPZ only applies to yellow line areas.

You could also mention religious discrimination whereby religions with long services are being discriminated against, sounds picky but sometimes the absurd carries more weight than common sense (eg the law on turbans for bikers).


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: diggingdeeper] #1056158
18th Jun 2018 10:18pm
18th Jun 2018 10:18pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
As far as I am aware, the CPZ only removes the requirement for sign posts, it doesn't remove the requirement for a yellow lines ie the CPZ only applies to yellow line areas.

You could also mention religious discrimination whereby religions with long services are being discriminated against, sounds picky but sometimes the absurd carries more weight than common sense (eg the law on turbans for bikers).


Thats what i would have thought..council cant solely rely on some hidden legislation or a sign 400 yds away.

The code on the PCN says "Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours" No idea where the "prescribed hours" are prescribed (apparently on a controlled zone sign somewhere). Was more interested in the blue P signs trying to look for somewhere to park. A "controlled zone" sign doesnt tell you where the boundaries are for that zone..

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056163
19th Jun 2018 9:23am
19th Jun 2018 9:23am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
I think the appeal will be successful, others have won for badly marked bays or faded / broken / tarmaced over lines.

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056164
19th Jun 2018 9:46am
19th Jun 2018 9:46am
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,616
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,616
Wirral
Fingers crossed for you fish!

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056166
19th Jun 2018 9:53am
19th Jun 2018 9:53am
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,885
Wallasey
S
Salmon Offline
Forum Addict
Salmon  Offline
Forum Addict
S
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,885
Wallasey
If it actually says "Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours" this is different from a CPZ .

A Restricted Parking Zone (RPZ) is an area where if you wish to park or wait - you can only do so in a designated parking bay - even if there are no double yellow lines painted on the roads.

Loading or unloading your vehicle is also not allowed outside of bays.

Fingers crossed for you Fish, not a nice thing to happen at the best of times but seems worse while in a church.

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056167
19th Jun 2018 10:46am
19th Jun 2018 10:46am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
Lets hope that it is a CPZ and the ticket issued was incorrect. CPZ's are bounded by the sign, there are end of CPZ on the back of them, the same as speed limits.

Interestingly, Liverpool doesn't mention RPZs on its website, only CPZs and Residential Parking Zones.

Like @fish says, trying to keep track of road signs is not at all easy if areas are zoned most of us are pre-programmed to be looking at the standard speed limit signs and such-like. I remember stopping at a set of traffic lights and counting over 40 signs etc visible from that point, its ridiculous.

Liverpool could be more helpful by putting maps on their website of restricted zones but that would be asking too much wouldn't it.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1056181
20th Jun 2018 9:37am
20th Jun 2018 9:37am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (non-goods vehicles)

This is known as Contravention code 01

Quote
Contravention code 01 is summarised as parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (non-goods vehicles).

Non goods vehicles

Contravention code 01 shall be used for non-goods vehicles (cars, motorbikes, and so on) seen to be parked in contravention on double or single yellow lines.

A five-minute observation period will be applied to non-goods vehicles.

Single yellow lines

Single yellow lines must be accompanied by a time plate which indicates the hours during which the restriction applies.

A time plate is not required for single yellow lines within a controlled parking zone (on-street pay and display area).


The photo you have of the tarmacced over line will win you this.

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1059046
19th Sep 2018 11:48pm
19th Sep 2018 11:48pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
3 months later they notify me that my informal challenge to the PCN is rejected saying i parked on a single yellow line.. ... . Funny i parked where the single yellow line had been removed..Oh well will take it to the next level

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1059047
20th Sep 2018 12:20am
20th Sep 2018 12:20am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,419
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,419
Wirral


Tell them they should go to Spec Savers !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1059048
20th Sep 2018 2:30am
20th Sep 2018 2:30am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
If you are either really bored sometime or just determined to fight this, it might be worth checking the size of the CPZ .....

Parking guidance and statutory guidance 31st March 2008 issued by the Government to Local Authorities states that a CPZ should not be larger than 12 streets.

“Clause E5: The Secretary of State's view is that motorists cannot reasonably be expected to read, understand and remember the parking restrictions at the entrance to a Controlled Parking Zone that covers an area of more than a dozen streets. CPZs rely solely on zone entry signs to give times of operation and to remove the need for time plates within the zone, except on lengths of road where the restrictions apply at different times to the rest of the zone. The area of a CPZ should, therefore, be restricted to, for example, a Town Centre shopping area. A single zone covering a whole town, or suburb of a conurbation, would be much too large. Conventional time plate signing, without zone entry signs, should accompany the yellow sign markings where large areas have waiting restrictions. Time plates are not necessary where there are double yellow lines.”


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1059063
20th Sep 2018 5:24pm
20th Sep 2018 5:24pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
I will fight it because a) i think the PCN is invalid and b) just fancy the experience.. Useful website www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk who are allegedly independent and will adjudicate your case for you. Got to wait now for the Notice To Owner letter and then i can make a formal representation which then gives me another 2 months grace. Would be nice to win as i then have a parking place in Liverpool...till they paint yellow line !

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1062546
27th Nov 2018 12:07am
27th Nov 2018 12:07am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
This one still rumbling on . All adds to the rich tapestry of life . Had my informal and formal appeals rejected. Have now escalated it to the traffic tribunal. Bing maps has provided me with some fantastic evidence that a yellow line has never existed where i parked. A new kerbline was added because it was originally a turning / pull in. The new strip of tarmac came about because they installed a new kerbline across the turn in. The bing aerials shows the line of the original yellow line. I have asked if Liverpool Council have proof of when they dug up the tarmac and evidence of a yellow line ever existing there. Fun and games

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1062547
27th Nov 2018 12:59am
27th Nov 2018 12:59am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
Your suspicions are quite correct, there has never been a yellow line there, this was a vehicular entrance to the previous building and the pavement stopped either side, after that building was knocked down it was used as a car park with this bit as its entrance, then Falkland House was built and while they put a pavement and kerb across it didn't have the yellow line.

Attached Files 2018-11-27_005801.jpg

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1062566
27th Nov 2018 5:08pm
27th Nov 2018 5:08pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
Yep thats one of the photos i found. Also one when Falkland house was there and it was a little pull in. My lad was there few weeks back and took another photo and still no yellow line painted. Makes the councils statement that a " reasonable person could logically conclude that a yellow line was there" seem rather weak.. We will see.

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1062829
6th Dec 2018 12:56pm
6th Dec 2018 12:56pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
Rather uneventful telephone parking tribunal because Liverpool City didnt want to take part and would rely on the adjudicators decision. Had all my "guns" loaded and powder dry. Adjudicator (expert lawyer in parking matters) ran through his take on all the evidence gave me chance to state my case but cut me short to say I wouldnt need to pay the fine! Felt like Citizen Smith "Power to the people". I did ask the lawyer if i could park there again and he said my case would be weaker knowing Liverpool Council dont want you parking there and they should have yellow line painted. He said if somebody else parked there and was ticketed they would have the same grounds to appeal that i used.

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1062830
6th Dec 2018 2:07pm
6th Dec 2018 2:07pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,665
Birkenhead
Well done, should never have come about in first place, if there is no indication you shouldn't park there why on earth did anyone assume you can't. It is about as ludicrous as it would have been if they charged you for blocking the entrance that no longer exists.

Lawyer's reply is him playing safe, there are loads of things the Council don't want to happen and is totally irrelevant to any legal case.

You going to put in a small claims for loss of earnings due to the time spent pratting around with the case? It would be hard to see how any quantifiable loss wouldn't win.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1062835
6th Dec 2018 6:03pm
6th Dec 2018 6:03pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
If theres never been a yellow line there for last 7 or 8 years I wonder how many other tickets they have issued for that spot since they put the kerb in. Will read the small print about claims but not that bothered. It was worth it for the ride.

Re: Another Parking Ticket [Re: fish5133] #1062842
7th Dec 2018 9:45am
7th Dec 2018 9:45am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,101
Oxton
Great outcome, I said you'd win back in June!

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Someone yelling - Rock Lane West, Rock Ferry
by Littlebear. 21st Jul 2019 5:13pm
iPad mini
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 9:18am
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 16th Jul 2019 10:24pm
Body repairs
by kamikazi. 16th Jul 2019 10:09am
Set Your Clocks
by diggingdeeper. 15th Jul 2019 11:43pm
For Sale & Free
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:07pm
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:03pm
4 in 1 trike
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 11:50am
free Items to go before scrapman commoth
by gerry1. 15th Jul 2019 3:17pm
B&O MX7000 25”
by _Ste_. 14th Jul 2019 1:17am
Member Spotlight
granny
granny
Wirral
Posts: 16,419
Joined: June 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Blinkbonny, Carl63, Cal2221, mccairn, Benbow
13032 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Someone yelling - Rock Lane West, Rock Ferry
by Littlebear. 21st Jul 2019 5:13pm
iPad mini
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 9:18am
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 16th Jul 2019 10:24pm
Abandoned Buildings around Wirral
by sabian8989. 8th Jul 2019 11:48pm
Accessing Marine Lake, New Brighton
by Aryia. 30th Jun 2019 8:49pm
News : New Topics
Set Your Clocks
by diggingdeeper. 15th Jul 2019 11:43pm
Wirral Crime Yesterday
by diggingdeeper. 13th Jul 2019 4:05pm
Saudi arms sales
by granny. 20th Jun 2019 11:04am
The Daffodil (Overchurch) is Saved
by Norton. 19th Jun 2019 10:25am
TV licences
by muzzy2. 10th Jun 2019 2:39pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Body repairs
by kamikazi. 16th Jul 2019 10:09am
Ah, how sad.
by venice. 9th Jul 2019 6:43pm
Best Dog Walking Parks ?
by Fenix. 25th Jun 2019 9:42am
windows 10
by steviebyday. 21st Jun 2019 5:08pm
Chernobyl
by Softy_Southerner. 4th Jun 2019 11:40am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sun 5:11am
Sunset Sun 9:26pm
Local Time Sun 11:18pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1