WikiWirral Online with you since 2003, fantastic.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,029,903
Topics75,786
Members13,649
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs23
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
42 registered members (6 invisible), 1,491 guests, and450 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Overuse of packaging
by cools. 22nd Jan 2021 4:40pm
Good Grief, Mr.Starmer !
by granny. 20th Jan 2021 11:59pm
This guy . . .
by GaryFromWirral. 18th Jan 2021 2:47pm
Cat needing good home
by muzzy2. 8th Jan 2021 2:03pm
New Wirral History
4mph speed limit over the Penny Bridge.
by mikeeb. 23rd Jan 2021 3:43pm
Pandh Travel
by RawtenstallBus. 22nd Jan 2021 8:35pm
Hardings (Wirral) Birkenhead
by RawtenstallBus. 22nd Jan 2021 8:31pm
Hardings (Wirral) Birkenhead
by RawtenstallBus. 22nd Jan 2021 8:28pm
Gladstone Street
by Chevi. 6th Jan 2021 8:39pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
4mph speed limit over the Penny Bridge.
by Greenwood. 23rd Jan 2021 10:01pm
Hardings (Wirral) Birkenhead
by RawtenstallBus. 23rd Jan 2021 7:05pm
Pandh Travel
by RawtenstallBus. 23rd Jan 2021 7:02pm
What song are you listening to?
by Dilly. 23rd Jan 2021 5:30pm
149 Grand Trunk Hotel
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jan 2021 4:18pm
258 Star Hotel 379 New Chester Road Rock Ferry
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jan 2021 4:05pm
Hardings (Wirral) Birkenhead
by RawtenstallBus. 22nd Jan 2021 8:31pm
Free parking
by cools. 22nd Jan 2021 4:29pm
Donald Chump
by Greenwood. 22nd Jan 2021 3:57pm
January
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
It Wasn't Novichok #1054592
15th Apr 2018 1:47am
15th Apr 2018 1:47am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
Well there's a surprise, our wonderful Governments accidentally forgot to "realise" that the OPCW report (and the Swiss laboratory report) stated that the Salisbury nerve agent wasn't Novichok after all, it was BZ Toxin (aka 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate aka QNB aka Agent 15 aka Substance 78 aka etc etc etc).

BZ Toxin is much more associated with the USA and Europe and is not known as a Russian chemical.

Now how did our Government manage to overlook that?

Next we will be finding out that the Syrian chemical attack was sherbet!


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Google Ads
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054595
15th Apr 2018 5:22am
15th Apr 2018 5:22am
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
Leasowe
B
Bobario Offline
Member
Bobario  Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
Leasowe
Could this government possibly be any more incompetent? I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I believe the Syrian attack was staged. Why would Assad need to use chemical weapons when he's well on the way to victory? It doesn't make sense.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054596
15th Apr 2018 7:52am
15th Apr 2018 7:52am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
Can you post a link to this information please DD?

I am not at all surprised at the deceit, and delighted to see the government's claims unravel.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054602
15th Apr 2018 10:57am
15th Apr 2018 10:57am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,262
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Master
casper  Online Content
Forum Master
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,262
wallasey
The OPCW information I have read does not name any agent only ingredient agents it does not name Novichoc nor does it deny it was Novichoc as the full assessment is classified, it cannot prove the agent as Russian manufacture but said it is the most likely source.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: Bobario] #1054603
15th Apr 2018 12:11pm
15th Apr 2018 12:11pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,644
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,644
Wirral
Originally Posted by Bobario
Could this government possibly be any more incompetent? I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I believe the Syrian attack was staged. Why would Assad need to use chemical weapons when he's well on the way to victory? It doesn't make sense.


I agree that you are right... every inch of the way.. from Skripals, to expelling Russian diplomats, to chemical attack paving the way for missile attacks , with the now threat of US being 'locked and loaded' .

That comment gives a open door opportunity for the rebels to stage another chemical attack, and the US will go in all guns blazing.
White Helmets, another outfit that is corrupt paid for by UK tax payers.
They also fake chemical attacks and the aftermath of such fake set ups and FSA threatened to use chemical attacks back in 2013 stating they had a supply, to eradicate Assad , there's video footage of that too.. The West are playing into the terrorists and rebels hands, and they know it and fund them !

White Helmets... NOT SUITABLE FOR THE SQEEMISH !

https://www.facebook.com/Syrianewsdaily/videos/810682652461471/

Probably moved away from the topic a bit , but to my mind the whole thing is connected, for one aim and one outcome. The Government simply can't tell lies quite so well as others can.

Last edited by granny; 15th Apr 2018 12:17pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054605
15th Apr 2018 3:14pm
15th Apr 2018 3:14pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
It was Reuters that reported it.

The Swiss laboratory’s report for OPCW was very clear. The OPCW final report didn’t name the agent but gave its chemical formula right at the end.

I’ll post up links when I’m on my computer.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054609
15th Apr 2018 4:12pm
15th Apr 2018 4:12pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054610
15th Apr 2018 4:57pm
15th Apr 2018 4:57pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
The OPCW summary report said it agreed with the Porton Down scientists as to what it was. Yet in its full report it apparently says the opposite!

What on earth is going on?

I would expect the formula to be kept firmly under wraps in order to prevent some teenage lunatic in Neston cooking up a batch in his bedroom to see if it works. I don't know enough about chemical nomenclature to tell if 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate is sufficient to define its molecular shape or not. Hopefully it isn't!

Unfortunately, RT is widely assumed in this country to be just a propaganda sheet, unlike those fine bastions of honest unbiased information like the Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph, Boris Johnson, Theresa May, etc. etc. So it won't be believed.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: Excoriator] #1054613
15th Apr 2018 5:50pm
15th Apr 2018 5:50pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The OPCW summary report said it agreed with the Porton Down scientists as to what it was.


Ah, read between the lines, it said it agreed with the UK findings but we don't know what the UK said to them (they might have just said a nerve agent), the OPCW samples were collected at the same time as Porton Down's so at that point the finding were a nerve agent purley on guesswork from symptoms. Nor do OPCW give any indication of which UK department/source they were talking about.

The last paragraph then goes on to say .....

"The name and structure of the identified toxic chemical are contained in the full classified report of the Secretariat, available to States Parties."

Which can only be read as they aren't prepared to state what chemical it is to the general public despite assurances from the UK Government that it was Novichok and that the UK Government wanted to be open on this.

I am very confused as to the section going on about purity, it would be almost impossible to asses purity from the main samples (bloods), the other samples were removed from various objects some time later which had to contain contamination?

Don't forget that Novichok is a group of drugs not one, the could have been less obtuse by saying Novichok without identifying which one.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 15th Apr 2018 5:55pm.

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054623
15th Apr 2018 10:56pm
15th Apr 2018 10:56pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
Well, I find it as suspicious as you do. But without the actual words that it is not novachok the evidence is insufficient to build a case upon. What a pity the OPCW has not made it clear.

As to the purity, I imagine that is assessed by looking for by-products from the method of synthesis. It is possible that more than one reaction occurs and this will result in other compounds being formed which may or may not be removed. Probably, if it comes from a small-scale laboratory sample it will be pure. In larger scale industrial production, they may not bother with separating harmless byproducts.

This is only a guess though.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: Excoriator] #1054624
15th Apr 2018 11:26pm
15th Apr 2018 11:26pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Here.
RUDEBOX Offline
Wiki Master
RUDEBOX  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Here.


Originally Posted by Excoriator


Unfortunately, RT is widely assumed in this country to be just a propaganda sheet, unlike those fine bastions of honest unbiased information like the Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph ..... etc. etc. So it won't be believed.


No point in engaging with the readership of such comics.


Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054632
16th Apr 2018 8:27am
16th Apr 2018 8:27am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
Well, unfortunately, there are many who believe every word written in them, and they have votes. Even more unfortunately, we have politicians who are happy to take advantage of their credulity too.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054633
16th Apr 2018 9:16am
16th Apr 2018 9:16am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,220
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,220
Oxton
No, a Swiss lab hasn't suggested Britain could be behind the Salisbury attack



I'll mark the best bit in bold for the hard of thinking.

Quote
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov suggested Britian could have staged the attack. Unfortunately the Swiss lab he cited say they didn't say that at all

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no-swiss-lab-hasnt-cast-12367077

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054634
16th Apr 2018 9:43am
16th Apr 2018 9:43am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,880
Birkenhead
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. The Russians know there is something in the full OPCW report that the UK and/or others don’t want known. The document will leak out in the end.

May’s usual arrogance got the OPCW summary released. It written in such a way that it is bound to draw suspicion.

Now who would I trust more if I had a brain! Reuters or The Mirror?


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054638
16th Apr 2018 10:13am
16th Apr 2018 10:13am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,220
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,220
Oxton
Don't write off the Mirror, its well known they have no love for a Tory government.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
4mph speed limit over the Penny Bridge.
by mikeeb. 23rd Jan 2021 3:43pm
Pandh Travel
by RawtenstallBus. 22nd Jan 2021 8:35pm
Hardings (Wirral) Birkenhead
by RawtenstallBus. 22nd Jan 2021 8:31pm
Hardings (Wirral) Birkenhead
by RawtenstallBus. 22nd Jan 2021 8:28pm
Free parking
by cools. 20th Jan 2021 9:14pm
For Sale & Free
Free logs wanted
by Boots. 18th Jan 2021 7:48pm
Women's LFC Top - Price Drop
by Julie64. 16th Jan 2021 6:13pm
Women's LFC Top
by Julie64. 14th Jan 2021 9:53pm
AQUARIUM
by lincle. 8th Jan 2021 10:47am
kids boots used size 6
by gerry1. 6th Jan 2021 4:22pm
Member Spotlight
KevinFinity
KevinFinity
Wirral
Posts: 2,335
Joined: April 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
RawtenstallBus, Martin1189, Gibsonhouse, tinapeas, Lambretta150
13649 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Free parking
by cools. 20th Jan 2021 9:14pm
Nervous Nelly?
by Excoriator. 15th Jan 2021 5:38pm
Visiting the tip - opinions?
by Greenwood. 9th Jan 2021 5:25pm
covid & cold
by lincle. 7th Jan 2021 9:25am
Coastal views
by rossie. 31st Dec 2020 9:01pm
News : New Topics
Horses Killed
by granny. 17th Jan 2021 3:29pm
Donald Chump
by mikeeb. 10th Jan 2021 1:39pm
Eleccy Off in Oxton
by diggingdeeper. 3rd Jan 2021 8:31pm
Gerry Marsden
by lincle. 3rd Jan 2021 5:33pm
EU Migrants
by granny. 3rd Jan 2021 12:02pm
New Enthusiast Forums
The Co-op Ghoul
by Erainn. 11th Jan 2021 1:54pm
Toyah . .
by GaryFromWirral. 10th Jan 2021 1:39pm
Wirral Covid
by diggingdeeper. 4th Jan 2021 2:59am
Wildlife
by cools. 31st Dec 2020 2:21pm
Gaming PC
by karl1972. 28th Dec 2020 7:28am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sat 8:09am
Sunset Sat 4:38pm
Local Time Sat 10:48pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1