WikiWirral 18yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,031,482
Topics76,020
Members14,008
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs0
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
19 registered members (Bazza55, 3 invisible), 1,449 guests, and228 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Anyone recognize any of these lovely ladies
by Longnails. 9th Nov 2021 12:10pm
Ed Davey MP Disgraceful!
by Longnails. 8th Nov 2021 11:41am
Boris Johnson Owen Paterson
by Longnails. 4th Nov 2021 1:07pm
Create legal right to see Drs Petition response
by Longnails. 4th Nov 2021 12:48pm
New Wirral History
Elm Grove Wallasey
by TomWM. 8th Nov 2021 3:01pm
Aerial Archaeology Mapping Explorer
by diggingdeeper. 24th Oct 2021 5:18pm
Rivacre Valley Ellesmere Port
by pegsgirl. 20th Apr 2015 7:06pm
Knowledge of old Birkenhead Street.....
by emmski. 19th Mar 2011 8:40pm
holy trinity church.
by cathcart. 1st Jul 2010 7:19am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Cruise liner Anthem of the Seas
Tram by the Penny Bridge
Topic Replies
Shop Window Personal Ads.
by TheGodSplinter. 27th Nov 2021 7:22pm
Social Care reforms unfair!
by casper. 27th Nov 2021 9:11am
The Toughest
by Longnails. 25th Nov 2021 2:30pm
John Lewis Xmas advert
by Longnails. 20th Nov 2021 12:52pm
Colin pitchfork
by cools. 20th Nov 2021 12:05pm
XMAS IS COMING
by lincle. 18th Nov 2021 8:38pm
Wanted Adult Magazines
by elbmek. 18th Nov 2021 5:50pm
Will your home be safe from sea rising map
by elbmek. 18th Nov 2021 5:47pm
Vauxhall meriva 1.4 VXR rep
by paul110180. 17th Nov 2021 5:44pm
November
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
It Wasn't Novichok #1054592
15th Apr 2018 1:47am
15th Apr 2018 1:47am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
Well there's a surprise, our wonderful Governments accidentally forgot to "realise" that the OPCW report (and the Swiss laboratory report) stated that the Salisbury nerve agent wasn't Novichok after all, it was BZ Toxin (aka 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate aka QNB aka Agent 15 aka Substance 78 aka etc etc etc).

BZ Toxin is much more associated with the USA and Europe and is not known as a Russian chemical.

Now how did our Government manage to overlook that?

Next we will be finding out that the Syrian chemical attack was sherbet!


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Google Ads
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054595
15th Apr 2018 5:22am
15th Apr 2018 5:22am
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
Leasowe
B
Bobario Offline
Member
Bobario  Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
Leasowe
Could this government possibly be any more incompetent? I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I believe the Syrian attack was staged. Why would Assad need to use chemical weapons when he's well on the way to victory? It doesn't make sense.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054596
15th Apr 2018 7:52am
15th Apr 2018 7:52am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
Can you post a link to this information please DD?

I am not at all surprised at the deceit, and delighted to see the government's claims unravel.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054602
15th Apr 2018 10:57am
15th Apr 2018 10:57am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,346
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Master
casper  Online Content
Forum Master
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,346
wallasey
The OPCW information I have read does not name any agent only ingredient agents it does not name Novichoc nor does it deny it was Novichoc as the full assessment is classified, it cannot prove the agent as Russian manufacture but said it is the most likely source.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: Bobario] #1054603
15th Apr 2018 12:11pm
15th Apr 2018 12:11pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,739
Wirral
G
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
G
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,739
Wirral
Originally Posted by Bobario
Could this government possibly be any more incompetent? I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I believe the Syrian attack was staged. Why would Assad need to use chemical weapons when he's well on the way to victory? It doesn't make sense.


I agree that you are right... every inch of the way.. from Skripals, to expelling Russian diplomats, to chemical attack paving the way for missile attacks , with the now threat of US being 'locked and loaded' .

That comment gives a open door opportunity for the rebels to stage another chemical attack, and the US will go in all guns blazing.
White Helmets, another outfit that is corrupt paid for by UK tax payers.
They also fake chemical attacks and the aftermath of such fake set ups and FSA threatened to use chemical attacks back in 2013 stating they had a supply, to eradicate Assad , there's video footage of that too.. The West are playing into the terrorists and rebels hands, and they know it and fund them !

White Helmets... NOT SUITABLE FOR THE SQEEMISH !

https://www.facebook.com/Syrianewsdaily/videos/810682652461471/

Probably moved away from the topic a bit , but to my mind the whole thing is connected, for one aim and one outcome. The Government simply can't tell lies quite so well as others can.

Last edited by granny; 15th Apr 2018 12:17pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054605
15th Apr 2018 3:14pm
15th Apr 2018 3:14pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
It was Reuters that reported it.

The Swiss laboratory’s report for OPCW was very clear. The OPCW final report didn’t name the agent but gave its chemical formula right at the end.

I’ll post up links when I’m on my computer.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054609
15th Apr 2018 4:12pm
15th Apr 2018 4:12pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054610
15th Apr 2018 4:57pm
15th Apr 2018 4:57pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
The OPCW summary report said it agreed with the Porton Down scientists as to what it was. Yet in its full report it apparently says the opposite!

What on earth is going on?

I would expect the formula to be kept firmly under wraps in order to prevent some teenage lunatic in Neston cooking up a batch in his bedroom to see if it works. I don't know enough about chemical nomenclature to tell if 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate is sufficient to define its molecular shape or not. Hopefully it isn't!

Unfortunately, RT is widely assumed in this country to be just a propaganda sheet, unlike those fine bastions of honest unbiased information like the Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph, Boris Johnson, Theresa May, etc. etc. So it won't be believed.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: Excoriator] #1054613
15th Apr 2018 5:50pm
15th Apr 2018 5:50pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The OPCW summary report said it agreed with the Porton Down scientists as to what it was.


Ah, read between the lines, it said it agreed with the UK findings but we don't know what the UK said to them (they might have just said a nerve agent), the OPCW samples were collected at the same time as Porton Down's so at that point the finding were a nerve agent purley on guesswork from symptoms. Nor do OPCW give any indication of which UK department/source they were talking about.

The last paragraph then goes on to say .....

"The name and structure of the identified toxic chemical are contained in the full classified report of the Secretariat, available to States Parties."

Which can only be read as they aren't prepared to state what chemical it is to the general public despite assurances from the UK Government that it was Novichok and that the UK Government wanted to be open on this.

I am very confused as to the section going on about purity, it would be almost impossible to asses purity from the main samples (bloods), the other samples were removed from various objects some time later which had to contain contamination?

Don't forget that Novichok is a group of drugs not one, the could have been less obtuse by saying Novichok without identifying which one.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 15th Apr 2018 5:55pm.

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054623
15th Apr 2018 10:56pm
15th Apr 2018 10:56pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
Well, I find it as suspicious as you do. But without the actual words that it is not novachok the evidence is insufficient to build a case upon. What a pity the OPCW has not made it clear.

As to the purity, I imagine that is assessed by looking for by-products from the method of synthesis. It is possible that more than one reaction occurs and this will result in other compounds being formed which may or may not be removed. Probably, if it comes from a small-scale laboratory sample it will be pure. In larger scale industrial production, they may not bother with separating harmless byproducts.

This is only a guess though.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: Excoriator] #1054624
15th Apr 2018 11:26pm
15th Apr 2018 11:26pm
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Here.
RUDEBOX Offline
Wiki Master
RUDEBOX  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Here.


Originally Posted by Excoriator


Unfortunately, RT is widely assumed in this country to be just a propaganda sheet, unlike those fine bastions of honest unbiased information like the Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph ..... etc. etc. So it won't be believed.


No point in engaging with the readership of such comics.


Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054632
16th Apr 2018 8:27am
16th Apr 2018 8:27am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,779
wirral
Well, unfortunately, there are many who believe every word written in them, and they have votes. Even more unfortunately, we have politicians who are happy to take advantage of their credulity too.

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054633
16th Apr 2018 9:16am
16th Apr 2018 9:16am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,233
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Master
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,233
Oxton
No, a Swiss lab hasn't suggested Britain could be behind the Salisbury attack



I'll mark the best bit in bold for the hard of thinking.

Quote
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov suggested Britian could have staged the attack. Unfortunately the Swiss lab he cited say they didn't say that at all

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no-swiss-lab-hasnt-cast-12367077

Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054634
16th Apr 2018 9:43am
16th Apr 2018 9:43am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,023
Birkenhead
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. The Russians know there is something in the full OPCW report that the UK and/or others don’t want known. The document will leak out in the end.

May’s usual arrogance got the OPCW summary released. It written in such a way that it is bound to draw suspicion.

Now who would I trust more if I had a brain! Reuters or The Mirror?


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: It Wasn't Novichok [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054638
16th Apr 2018 10:13am
16th Apr 2018 10:13am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,233
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Master
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,233
Oxton
Don't write off the Mirror, its well known they have no love for a Tory government.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Shop Window Personal Ads.
by TheGodSplinter. 25th Nov 2021 5:24pm
Social Care reforms unfair!
by Longnails. 25th Nov 2021 2:36pm
The Toughest
by diggingdeeper. 15th Nov 2021 5:18pm
Elm Grove Wallasey
by TomWM. 8th Nov 2021 3:01pm
Will your home be safe from sea rising map
by derekdwc. 8th Nov 2021 10:27am
For Sale & Free
XMAS IS COMING
by lincle. 18th Nov 2021 8:38pm
Benelli TNT 125cc tornado naked
by paul110180. 17th Nov 2021 5:42pm
Wanted any rattan garden furniture top price paid
by Phildog. 30th Oct 2021 6:15pm
Wanted 1980s or any vintage toys top prices paid
by Phildog. 30th Oct 2021 6:13pm
Wanted Adult Magazines
by Phildog. 30th Oct 2021 5:35pm
Member Spotlight
diggingdeeper
diggingdeeper
Birkenhead
Posts: 14,023
Joined: July 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Chammond, JacqMcCo, StevenStafford, Sausage, Newt79
14008 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Shop Window Personal Ads.
by TheGodSplinter. 25th Nov 2021 5:24pm
Heating engineer
by Paintboffin. 7th Nov 2021 10:03am
Temporary relocation of Birkenhead Market
by mikeeb. 29th May 2021 1:01pm
News : New Topics
Social Care reforms unfair!
by Longnails. 25th Nov 2021 2:36pm
The Toughest
by diggingdeeper. 15th Nov 2021 5:18pm
Will your home be safe from sea rising map
by derekdwc. 8th Nov 2021 10:27am
Newspapers
by muzzy2. 30th Oct 2021 1:02pm
Budget 2021
by granny. 27th Oct 2021 6:00pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Bultaco pursang
by Bultaco. 13th Mar 2019 12:43pm
John Lewis Xmas advert
by cools. 4th Nov 2016 7:14pm
What song are you listening to?
by . 24th Jun 2007 10:06am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Mon 8:03am
Sunset Mon 3:58pm
Local Time Mon 2:11pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1