Forums Forums National News It Wasn't Novichok

Well there's a surprise, our wonderful Governments accidentally forgot to "realise" that the OPCW report (and the Swiss laboratory report) stated that the Salisbury nerve agent wasn't Novichok after all, it was BZ Toxin (aka 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate aka QNB aka Agent 15 aka Substance 78 aka etc etc etc).

BZ Toxin is much more associated with the USA and Europe and is not known as a Russian chemical.

Now how did our Government manage to overlook that?

Next we will be finding out that the Syrian chemical attack was sherbet!

Could this government possibly be any more incompetent? I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I believe the Syrian attack was staged. Why would Assad need to use chemical weapons when he's well on the way to victory? It doesn't make sense.

Can you post a link to this information please DD?

I am not at all surprised at the deceit, and delighted to see the government's claims unravel.

The OPCW information I have read does not name any agent only ingredient agents it does not name Novichoc nor does it deny it was Novichoc as the full assessment is classified, it cannot prove the agent as Russian manufacture but said it is the most likely source.

I agree that you are right... every inch of the way.. from Skripals, to expelling Russian diplomats, to chemical attack paving the way for missile attacks , with the now threat of US being 'locked and loaded' .

That comment gives a open door opportunity for the rebels to stage another chemical attack, and the US will go in all guns blazing.
White Helmets, another outfit that is corrupt paid for by UK tax payers.
They also fake chemical attacks and the aftermath of such fake set ups and FSA threatened to use chemical attacks back in 2013 stating they had a supply, to eradicate Assad , there's video footage of that too.. The West are playing into the terrorists and rebels hands, and they know it and fund them !

White Helmets... NOT SUITABLE FOR THE SQEEMISH !

https://www.facebook.com/Syrianewsdaily/videos/810682652461471/

Probably moved away from the topic a bit , but to my mind the whole thing is connected, for one aim and one outcome. The Government simply can't tell lies quite so well as others can.

It was Reuters that reported it.

The Swiss laboratory’s report for OPCW was very clear. The OPCW final report didn’t name the agent but gave its chemical formula right at the end.

I’ll post up links when I’m on my computer.

The OPCW summary report said it agreed with the Porton Down scientists as to what it was. Yet in its full report it apparently says the opposite!

What on earth is going on?

I would expect the formula to be kept firmly under wraps in order to prevent some teenage lunatic in Neston cooking up a batch in his bedroom to see if it works. I don't know enough about chemical nomenclature to tell if 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate is sufficient to define its molecular shape or not. Hopefully it isn't!

Unfortunately, RT is widely assumed in this country to be just a propaganda sheet, unlike those fine bastions of honest unbiased information like the Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph, Boris Johnson, Theresa May, etc. etc. So it won't be believed.

Ah, read between the lines, it said it agreed with the UK findings but we don't know what the UK said to them (they might have just said a nerve agent), the OPCW samples were collected at the same time as Porton Down's so at that point the finding were a nerve agent purley on guesswork from symptoms. Nor do OPCW give any indication of which UK department/source they were talking about.

The last paragraph then goes on to say .....

"The name and structure of the identified toxic chemical are contained in the full classified report of the Secretariat, available to States Parties."

Which can only be read as they aren't prepared to state what chemical it is to the general public despite assurances from the UK Government that it was Novichok and that the UK Government wanted to be open on this.

I am very confused as to the section going on about purity, it would be almost impossible to asses purity from the main samples (bloods), the other samples were removed from various objects some time later which had to contain contamination?

Don't forget that Novichok is a group of drugs not one, the could have been less obtuse by saying Novichok without identifying which one.

Well, I find it as suspicious as you do. But without the actual words that it is not novachok the evidence is insufficient to build a case upon. What a pity the OPCW has not made it clear.

As to the purity, I imagine that is assessed by looking for by-products from the method of synthesis. It is possible that more than one reaction occurs and this will result in other compounds being formed which may or may not be removed. Probably, if it comes from a small-scale laboratory sample it will be pure. In larger scale industrial production, they may not bother with separating harmless byproducts.

This is only a guess though.

No point in engaging with the readership of such comics.

Well, unfortunately, there are many who believe every word written in them, and they have votes. Even more unfortunately, we have politicians who are happy to take advantage of their credulity too.

No, a Swiss lab hasn't suggested Britain could be behind the Salisbury attack



I'll mark the best bit in bold for the hard of thinking.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no-swiss-lab-hasnt-cast-12367077

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. The Russians know there is something in the full OPCW report that the UK and/or others don’t want known. The document will leak out in the end.

May’s usual arrogance got the OPCW summary released. It written in such a way that it is bound to draw suspicion.

Now who would I trust more if I had a brain! Reuters or The Mirror?

Don't write off the Mirror, its well known they have no love for a Tory government.

So the claim is that it was both poisons BZ Toxin and Novichok, things are getting weirder day by day. The lab has only denied that is said it wasn't Novichok so the Mirror's story holds up whilst not denying that BZ Toxin was present as claimed by Reuters.

Aren't Reuters and RT different ?

Yes, for some weird reason my mobile put Reuters title on rt.com, its probably an advert or something doh!

Some very interesting information here:

https://thesaker.is/a-curious-incident-part-ix/

How reliable is it? Judge for yourself!

Latest from Department of Environment.



so we have a "very small amount" distributed over at least nine sites requiring massive clean up...uhm ! Which includes Skipals door and driveway according to reports.

seems a bit late to start a massive clean up now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43798068

This horrendous act , now seems to be turning into a comedy sketch ! Maybe it's me, but all I see is departments from one place or another digging a bigger and bigger hole .
The Skripals house might have to be demolished ? Neighbours have got to move out ?
If the Skripals house might have to be demolished then maybe there was more inside than outside ?
We also believe most of what the BBC tells us too, and that is another debatable subject.
Policeman's house to be cleansed ? What about his family, have they not come into contact with it ?

Just seems like it's another way to try to be more convincing.

How did their cat and hamsters ( or gerbils) get infected? Believe the hamsters died of thirst but the cat was in great pain when found and put to sleep so wasn't examined.

This is still as clear as mud after all the newspaper reports and the official OPCW findings, which were apparently only revealed to state parties and not the general populace.

The latest info I can find says the BZ (actually a precursor of BZ called 3Q) included with the sample was only included as a control marker and has nothing to do with the samples collected in Salisbury. So it looks like it was actually Novichok in liquid form that nearly killed the Skripals. Apparently it takes a much greater dose of liquid compared to gas to be lethal and it was this, plus the fact they went out for dinner and their symptoms were noticed quickly, that saved them. Had they stayed at home they would probably have died.

My number one suspect is Yulia..especially if the suitcase story is true..easy to smuggle in as 2 binary agents.. . inflicted accidentally as she was smuggling it into UK from Russia ..possibly for Porton Down. Quite feasible her dad was still active in the world of secret services. Not read anything about police questioning her. Interesting to see if she claims political asylum here.. Cant understand though how a "small" amount of liquid could get spilled in so many places and how on earth it is actually detected. Does it give off fumes that can be read.

But the Government have stated that they were not treated for nerve agents, keeping them alive would not stop the nerve agent continuing its path of destruction taking out their major organs. If it was Novichok and it got to the stage of knocking them out it is highly unlikely that both would survive, one maybe by shear fluke but not both. The odds of both of them getting a near identical marginal dose is beyond credibility unless they were dosed with precision eg a measured quantity ingested or injected.

Also assuming the point of entry was through the skin of their hands, the effect on the muscles of their hands would be noticed first, the idea of them both calmly having a meal with both of them suffering from twitches and cramps in their hands would be difficult to swallow.

As @Venice stated, the Government story keeps changing to cover up the loop-holes in their previous statements.

It just seems impossible to create a plan (however unlikely) of the chain of events that ties up with what is known.

It seems very odd that two different people , one much younger, one much heavier, two different sexes, different constitutions , and they both collapsed at the same time.

Anyway , this is interesting. Scroll down past all the animals if you don't want to read all the heartache, until you come to :

Porton Down scientists test chemical gas on London Tube passengers

https://www.globalresearch.ca/salis...-pentagon-program-at-porton-down/5636361

The entire story is rubbish. Absolute nonsense. Almost laughable.

Typical Tory pre local elections false flag.

Not up to date on the 'un-stable chemical'/ evacuation at Manchester Uni yet - waiting for it to be linked to Russia/ Corbyn though.

That occasion wasn't a secret http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22901700

However the similar experiment in 1964 used something they thought was harmless that isn't https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-biological-warfare-trials-10376411.html

I don't understand the point of the exercises. They used people as guinea pigs , have no idea how certain places were affected and then got concerned in case people contracted live plague bacteria disease ?

Unbelievable ! And we are expected to believe everything they tell us today ?

I would dearly love to see evidence of the qualifications in toxicology of some of the above commentators which I would assume are nil and based on forum barrack room googling as usual here.

In fact ANY qualification is unlikely to appear lol!

Nobody on here has claimed to be an expert on anything least of all nerve agents, and qualifications are not required in order to form an opinion.

And I'd like to see your qualifications that qualify you to make those assumptions.