WikiWirral its great, register, enjoy and welcome.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,020,416
Topics75,177
Members13,110
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs18
Most Online13,060
Sep 14th, 2019
Who's Online Now
45 registered members (9 invisible), 1,344 guests, and321 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
State of the Nation
by diggingdeeper. 15th Oct 2019 5:23pm
World's Best Council Estate
by diggingdeeper. 28th Sep 2019 1:56pm
Funny Pics and Posts
by neddy. 2nd Feb 2013 4:21pm
Count to 1,000,000
by Nobody. 16th May 2011 12:40pm
New Wirral History
WHERE IS/WAS TONER ROAD, LISCARD
by moretonkiwi. 27th Sep 2019 4:25am
some downloadable pdfs from Cheshire Local History
by derekdwc. 26th Sep 2019 12:44pm
Where is/was this Station Hotel
by derekdwc. 13th Mar 2019 11:44am
Long-forgotten brook.
by Excoriator. 17th Sep 2017 7:37pm
St Werburgh's, Birkenhead
by Roslynmuse. 13th Aug 2014 7:19pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
Timing Belt change vauxhall Zafiria 59
by Gibbo. 17th Oct 2019 10:43am
Jimmy savilles little cottage in Scotland.
by Gibbo. 17th Oct 2019 10:37am
Extinction Rebellion
by snowhite. 17th Oct 2019 10:07am
Tour of Britain Stage 5, Wirral 11th September
by moretonkiwi. 17th Oct 2019 2:09am
Louise Ellman
by granny. 17th Oct 2019 12:56am
What song are you listening to?
by granny. 15th Oct 2019 11:27pm
Boom : New Ferry Explosion
by diggingdeeper. 14th Oct 2019 10:18pm
663 Wellington now called "Dukes" Wallasey Road a
by daveybm. 13th Oct 2019 10:08am
Defend Democracy Protests
by granny. 12th Oct 2019 11:40pm
October
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Question Time in Wallasey
by granny. 29th Sep 2019 9:51pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rating 5
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? #1054245
5th Apr 2018 11:33am
5th Apr 2018 11:33am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,807
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,807
Birkenhead
Another case of someone defending themselves and gets arrested for murder.

Two criminals invading someone's property versus one 78 year old man who is looking after his demented wife. I fail to understand why he was arrested, there was no need until further investigation was carried out.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...house-in-south-east-london-a3805251.html


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Google Ads
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054246
5th Apr 2018 2:59pm
5th Apr 2018 2:59pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
Why? I imagine they thought his response was disproportionate.

You can't seriously expect the police to write off a death and do nothing because the deceased was a burglar, surely to goodness! And if it there is a possibility that it was murder, then you really can't expect the police to allow him to wander around and possibly murder someone else.

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054247
5th Apr 2018 3:03pm
5th Apr 2018 3:03pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,610
Birkenhead
J
jimbob Offline

Forum Addict
jimbob  Offline

Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,610
Birkenhead
so its disproportionate to defend yourself when confronted by an intruder armed with a screw driver.


Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054250
5th Apr 2018 3:55pm
5th Apr 2018 3:55pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,557
Wirral
C
cools Offline
Forum Master
cools  Offline
Forum Master
C
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,557
Wirral
The scumbag got what he deserved and I'm not talking about the old man here. They pick on vulnerable people who they assume can't defend themselves , well this victim could! If anybody is in your house trying to harm or rob you well you do what you have to.
It's no surprise that you disagree with most people Ex, that halo of yours must get very heavy...

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Excoriator] #1054251
5th Apr 2018 4:08pm
5th Apr 2018 4:08pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,807
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,807
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Why? I imagine they thought his response was disproportionate.


Two able-bodied men armed with screwdrivers against a 78 year old man, disproportionate?? What could be proportionate, his only chance was to scare them enough so they would leave (which is unlikely) or definitely disabling them, as most of us aren't forensic surgeons the exact minimum damage you can do to definitely disable them is uncalculable and even less so while you are being attacked.

He wasn't going to tickle them under their armpits and have a 5 second break to check if they tap out!

The law was clarified a few times over the last few years, you can't attack people that are leaving your premises, anything else goes provided it is clear that their presence is not wanted.

There was still no need for them to arrest the old man on the spot, I think he had enough excitement for the night without the police adding to it. The case will probably go to court and the charge almost certainly won't be murder.

So what would you do @Ex if you are 78 and you are protecting yourself, your disabled wife and your property?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Excoriator] #1054252
5th Apr 2018 4:22pm
5th Apr 2018 4:22pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 350
Wallasey
H
Habdab Offline
Old Hand
Habdab  Offline
Old Hand
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 350
Wallasey

You can't seriously expect the police to write off a death and do nothing because the deceased was a burglar, surely to goodness! And if it there is a possibility that it was murder, then you really can't expect the police to allow him to wander around and possibly murder someone else.[/quote]


There's a very simple solution. Shoot all the burglars and honest people won't have to kill them protecting what is rightfully theirs
.
Would you have just allowed him to ransack your home Excoriator, to take all the things you'd collected throughout your life? You can't seriously expect people to stand idly by when an armed man breaks into their home equipped to cause injury.
Tell me you would and you've lost ANY credibility you might have had here.
Also, I seriously doubt the gentleman is a homicidal maniac that would go on the prowl looking for further victims to stab. He was defending what was rightfully his against a low life scumbag that can't be bothered being a decent member of society. Before you go off on one whining about how he must be a poor deprived victim, let me tell you there are millions of poor deprived victims that don't choose to steal from pensioners or anyone else for that matter. It was the burglar's choice to enter the man's house, he deserved whatever he got. It wasn't as if the old man had gone looking for someone to stab was it?


Fetere sum, ego sum Ergo
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054262
5th Apr 2018 4:54pm
5th Apr 2018 4:54pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
As usual, the hangers and floggers are all over this like a rash!

You really have no idea what went on. Neither do I, and it seems the police clearly think it needs investigating too. The one who died made it to hospital before doing so. Perhaps the police heard a very different story from him and the householder. Or perhaps the householder's story simply didn't fit the facts. He may even have a History of violent assault in the past. We just don't know yet.

I think you people would approve of the procedure in the court Alice attended in Wonderland where the sentence was carried out first, followed by the verdict after which came the evidence etc.

Curiously UK law holds the curious notion that human life is more valuable than any property. People who believe differently might like to decide the financial value of a human life. I would not be too surprised if someone would be stupid enough to do so!

Last edited by Excoriator; 5th Apr 2018 5:00pm.
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054273
5th Apr 2018 8:25pm
5th Apr 2018 8:25pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 350
Wallasey
H
Habdab Offline
Old Hand
Habdab  Offline
Old Hand
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 350
Wallasey
Oh well done Excoriator, you really do show your full potential on here. I wonder if you'd be so defensive of the criminals if it was your home they burgled?


Fetere sum, ego sum Ergo
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054274
5th Apr 2018 8:40pm
5th Apr 2018 8:40pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,965
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,965
Heswallish
You dont often read about a police fire arms officer being arrested following a fatal shooting of a suspect. Best you get is the officer put on gardening leave and a independant police inquiry launched.
Interesting to see if this actually gets any further than CPS

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054275
5th Apr 2018 8:44pm
5th Apr 2018 8:44pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
This is only a closed forum Ex , not a jury deciding ! So ,with a discussion like this , most of just tend to take the most likely scenario , and comment on what we think about the various actions taken. Ok, so there's a million to one chance that the 78yr old had invited the teenagers to come along for a midnight cuppa and cake , had a funny turn, grabbed the screwdriver the kindly lads had brought along to do odd jobs for him , and decided to murder one in cold blood.

Not very likely though , is it .Far more likely its exactly as it looks . Weapon carrying yobs appear suddenly in the middle of the night in the home of a 78yr old , who is terrified ,panicky and vulnerable ,fearing what was going to happen to his poor wife upstairs when one of them pushes him into the kitchen. Enough to make any normal person lash out in terror .

If it all turns out to be quite different from what most of us presume, then fine, we'll just give views on the new evidence. What harm has been done ?

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054281
5th Apr 2018 9:33pm
5th Apr 2018 9:33pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,965
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,965
Heswallish
They could have been a couple of paedo vigilantes going in to sort out the 78 year old...(pigs might fly) ...> Either way he has in law the right to defend himself ...

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Habdab] #1054282
5th Apr 2018 9:42pm
5th Apr 2018 9:42pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
Originally Posted by Habdab
I wonder if you'd be so defensive of the criminals if it was your home they burgled?


I like to think I would, Habdab. Most certainly I would not have taken a knife and stabbed a burglar to death to protect my possessions. I'd prefer to lose the lot than have a man's blood on my hands. I have been burgled myself. It is irritating, but not the end of the world. I certainly didn't feel annoyed enough to wish the burglar dead.

That isn't to say I WANT to be burgled, and would be very happy to see the perpetrators face the law for it, but nothing I have is worth a man's life.

Obviously, you have a strong urge to vengeance and won't agree, but I think people come first and property very much second.

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: fish5133] #1054283
5th Apr 2018 9:45pm
5th Apr 2018 9:45pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,666
wirral
Originally Posted by fish5133
They could have been a couple of paedo vigilantes going in to sort out the 78 year old...(pigs might fly) ...> Either way he has in law the right to defend himself ...


The right to bear arms maybe Fish? And look where that's got America!

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Excoriator] #1054284
5th Apr 2018 10:04pm
5th Apr 2018 10:04pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
Originally Posted by Excoriator
I think people come first and property very much second.


The 78 yr old probably agreed with you Ex - he was putting the lives of himself and his wife first - I doubt he was bothered about his property at that particular moment ,just terrified he and his wife might be about to die.

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: cools] #1054291
6th Apr 2018 12:37am
6th Apr 2018 12:37am
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Here.
RUDEBOX Offline
Wiki Master
RUDEBOX  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,446
Here.
Originally Posted by cools

It's no surprise that you disagree with most people Ex, that halo of yours must get very heavy...
What!? He disagrees with the two or three regular contributors on Wiki and thats it- you have him hung drawn and quartered? Cools, YOU are the one with pro-longed Ex. issues. See your previous posts. Nobody else. Behave.

Last edited by RUDEBOX; 6th Apr 2018 12:42am.

Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Jimmy savilles little cottage in Scotland.
by snowhite. 17th Oct 2019 9:35am
Louise Ellman
by granny. 17th Oct 2019 12:56am
Timing Belt change vauxhall Zafiria 59
by rossie. 16th Oct 2019 7:45pm
Extinction Rebellion
by granny. 7th Oct 2019 6:06pm
Question Time in Wallasey
by derekdwc. 29th Sep 2019 12:12pm
For Sale & Free
Computer Desk
by Catsick. 9th Oct 2019 11:49am
Computer Desk
by Catsick. 5th Oct 2019 9:35am
Laser Printer (USB / network)
by Gibbo. 3rd Oct 2019 11:11am
sewing machine
by lincle. 3rd Oct 2019 8:31am
Trampoline
by lincle. 1st Oct 2019 6:19pm
Member Spotlight
vw_kyle
vw_kyle
wirral
Posts: 1,993
Joined: December 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Carson, Bishti, Philbill, George88, Earthman
13110 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Capt_America (2019)
New Wirral Info
Question Time in Wallasey
by derekdwc. 29th Sep 2019 12:12pm
Recent road repairs
by Littlebear. 26th Aug 2019 11:21am
News : New Topics
Louise Ellman
by granny. 17th Oct 2019 12:56am
Extinction Rebellion
by granny. 7th Oct 2019 6:06pm
New Brighton Adventure Land
by cools. 25th Sep 2019 10:34pm
New art ... by Dotmaster @ NewBrighton
by GaryFromWirral. 21st Sep 2019 3:20pm
Police, Rock ferry.
by diggingdeeper. 19th Sep 2019 8:52pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Jimmy savilles little cottage in Scotland.
by snowhite. 17th Oct 2019 9:35am
Timing Belt change vauxhall Zafiria 59
by rossie. 16th Oct 2019 7:45pm
When Logins Become Redundant
by diggingdeeper. 24th Sep 2019 8:10am
Spark plugs
by Pete_M. 16th Sep 2019 8:14am
Downton Abbey Film
by cools. 13th Sep 2019 3:30pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Thu 7:43am
Sunset Thu 6:11pm
Local Time Thu 12:43pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1