Another case of someone defending themselves and gets arrested for murder.

Two criminals invading someone's property versus one 78 year old man who is looking after his demented wife. I fail to understand why he was arrested, there was no need until further investigation was carried out.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...house-in-south-east-london-a3805251.html

Why? I imagine they thought his response was disproportionate.

You can't seriously expect the police to write off a death and do nothing because the deceased was a burglar, surely to goodness! And if it there is a possibility that it was murder, then you really can't expect the police to allow him to wander around and possibly murder someone else.

so its disproportionate to defend yourself when confronted by an intruder armed with a screw driver.

The scumbag got what he deserved and I'm not talking about the old man here. They pick on vulnerable people who they assume can't defend themselves , well this victim could! If anybody is in your house trying to harm or rob you well you do what you have to.
It's no surprise that you disagree with most people Ex, that halo of yours must get very heavy...

Two able-bodied men armed with screwdrivers against a 78 year old man, disproportionate?? What could be proportionate, his only chance was to scare them enough so they would leave (which is unlikely) or definitely disabling them, as most of us aren't forensic surgeons the exact minimum damage you can do to definitely disable them is uncalculable and even less so while you are being attacked.

He wasn't going to tickle them under their armpits and have a 5 second break to check if they tap out!

The law was clarified a few times over the last few years, you can't attack people that are leaving your premises, anything else goes provided it is clear that their presence is not wanted.

There was still no need for them to arrest the old man on the spot, I think he had enough excitement for the night without the police adding to it. The case will probably go to court and the charge almost certainly won't be murder.

So what would you do @Ex if you are 78 and you are protecting yourself, your disabled wife and your property?

You can't seriously expect the police to write off a death and do nothing because the deceased was a burglar, surely to goodness! And if it there is a possibility that it was murder, then you really can't expect the police to allow him to wander around and possibly murder someone else.[/quote]


There's a very simple solution. Shoot all the burglars and honest people won't have to kill them protecting what is rightfully theirs
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Would you have just allowed him to ransack your home Excoriator, to take all the things you'd collected throughout your life? You can't seriously expect people to stand idly by when an armed man breaks into their home equipped to cause injury.
Tell me you would and you've lost ANY credibility you might have had here.
Also, I seriously doubt the gentleman is a homicidal maniac that would go on the prowl looking for further victims to stab. He was defending what was rightfully his against a low life scumbag that can't be bothered being a decent member of society. Before you go off on one whining about how he must be a poor deprived victim, let me tell you there are millions of poor deprived victims that don't choose to steal from pensioners or anyone else for that matter. It was the burglar's choice to enter the man's house, he deserved whatever he got. It wasn't as if the old man had gone looking for someone to stab was it?

As usual, the hangers and floggers are all over this like a rash!

You really have no idea what went on. Neither do I, and it seems the police clearly think it needs investigating too. The one who died made it to hospital before doing so. Perhaps the police heard a very different story from him and the householder. Or perhaps the householder's story simply didn't fit the facts. He may even have a History of violent assault in the past. We just don't know yet.

I think you people would approve of the procedure in the court Alice attended in Wonderland where the sentence was carried out first, followed by the verdict after which came the evidence etc.

Curiously UK law holds the curious notion that human life is more valuable than any property. People who believe differently might like to decide the financial value of a human life. I would not be too surprised if someone would be stupid enough to do so!

Oh well done Excoriator, you really do show your full potential on here. I wonder if you'd be so defensive of the criminals if it was your home they burgled?

You dont often read about a police fire arms officer being arrested following a fatal shooting of a suspect. Best you get is the officer put on gardening leave and a independant police inquiry launched.
Interesting to see if this actually gets any further than CPS

This is only a closed forum Ex , not a jury deciding ! So ,with a discussion like this , most of just tend to take the most likely scenario , and comment on what we think about the various actions taken. Ok, so there's a million to one chance that the 78yr old had invited the teenagers to come along for a midnight cuppa and cake , had a funny turn, grabbed the screwdriver the kindly lads had brought along to do odd jobs for him , and decided to murder one in cold blood.

Not very likely though , is it .Far more likely its exactly as it looks . Weapon carrying yobs appear suddenly in the middle of the night in the home of a 78yr old , who is terrified ,panicky and vulnerable ,fearing what was going to happen to his poor wife upstairs when one of them pushes him into the kitchen. Enough to make any normal person lash out in terror .

If it all turns out to be quite different from what most of us presume, then fine, we'll just give views on the new evidence. What harm has been done ?

They could have been a couple of paedo vigilantes going in to sort out the 78 year old...(pigs might fly) ...> Either way he has in law the right to defend himself ...

I like to think I would, Habdab. Most certainly I would not have taken a knife and stabbed a burglar to death to protect my possessions. I'd prefer to lose the lot than have a man's blood on my hands. I have been burgled myself. It is irritating, but not the end of the world. I certainly didn't feel annoyed enough to wish the burglar dead.

That isn't to say I WANT to be burgled, and would be very happy to see the perpetrators face the law for it, but nothing I have is worth a man's life.

Obviously, you have a strong urge to vengeance and won't agree, but I think people come first and property very much second.

The right to bear arms maybe Fish? And look where that's got America!

The 78 yr old probably agreed with you Ex - he was putting the lives of himself and his wife first - I doubt he was bothered about his property at that particular moment ,just terrified he and his wife might be about to die.

What!? He disagrees with the two or three regular contributors on Wiki and thats it- you have him hung drawn and quartered? Cools, YOU are the one with pro-longed Ex. issues. See your previous posts. Nobody else. Behave.