WikiWirral 14yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,005,725
Topics74,422
Members12,673
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs28
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
52 registered members (alan128, 10 invisible), 994 guests, and289 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
266 Nearly
New General Forums
Hi
by The2Veggies. 12th Jul 2018 8:07pm
Men for all seasons
by casper. 11th Jul 2018 10:32am
Delta 15 Scholarship
by diggingdeeper. 2nd Jul 2018 6:23pm
Trump separating children from parents.
by venice. 20th Jun 2018 12:27pm
New Wirral History
A Fizz From The Past
by diggingdeeper. 30th Jun 2018 8:49pm
Ashville Road Sports Ground
by derekdwc. 26th May 2018 1:14pm
Any pics of Bentinck Street
by derekdwc. 17th Oct 2012 11:25am
276 Rock Villa Hotel Ltd 329 Old Chester Road
by derekdwc. 18th Aug 2011 11:13pm
does anyone remember Beaufort Square, Birkenhead?
by oldbirkonian1. 29th Jun 2011 7:46pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Over Exposed Crash Site
Birkenhead Priory / Laird's crane today
Topic Replies
Hose Pipe Ban
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 9:42pm
Finds from 18/07/18 double silver!
by Detecting_wirral. 19th Jul 2018 9:30pm
Newsflash - Wirral's newest Retail Park
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 3:22pm
Ashville Road Sports Ground
by jimmy3. 19th Jul 2018 2:06pm
New Novichok Saga
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 12:04pm
124 North Western Hotel
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 12:00pm
276 Rock Villa Hotel Ltd 329 Old Chester Road
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 11:57am
mens designer clothes
by Liangi08. 19th Jul 2018 10:32am
Kitchen Supplier & Fitter + other Recommendations
by Itsme. 19th Jul 2018 10:09am
July
M T W T F S S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Giants to visit New Brighton Lighthouse
by granny. 24th Jun 2018 10:43pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rating 5
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? #1054245
5th Apr 2018 11:33am
5th Apr 2018 11:33am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
Another case of someone defending themselves and gets arrested for murder.

Two criminals invading someone's property versus one 78 year old man who is looking after his demented wife. I fail to understand why he was arrested, there was no need until further investigation was carried out.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...house-in-south-east-london-a3805251.html


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Google Ads
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054246
5th Apr 2018 2:59pm
5th Apr 2018 2:59pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
Why? I imagine they thought his response was disproportionate.

You can't seriously expect the police to write off a death and do nothing because the deceased was a burglar, surely to goodness! And if it there is a possibility that it was murder, then you really can't expect the police to allow him to wander around and possibly murder someone else.

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054247
5th Apr 2018 3:03pm
5th Apr 2018 3:03pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,572
Birkenhead
J
jimbob Offline

Forum Addict
jimbob  Offline

Forum Addict
J
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,572
Birkenhead
so its disproportionate to defend yourself when confronted by an intruder armed with a screw driver.


Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054250
5th Apr 2018 3:55pm
5th Apr 2018 3:55pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,311
Wirral
C
cools Offline
Forum Master
cools  Offline
Forum Master
C
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,311
Wirral
The scumbag got what he deserved and I'm not talking about the old man here. They pick on vulnerable people who they assume can't defend themselves , well this victim could! If anybody is in your house trying to harm or rob you well you do what you have to.
It's no surprise that you disagree with most people Ex, that halo of yours must get very heavy...

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Excoriator] #1054251
5th Apr 2018 4:08pm
5th Apr 2018 4:08pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline OP

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline OP

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Why? I imagine they thought his response was disproportionate.


Two able-bodied men armed with screwdrivers against a 78 year old man, disproportionate?? What could be proportionate, his only chance was to scare them enough so they would leave (which is unlikely) or definitely disabling them, as most of us aren't forensic surgeons the exact minimum damage you can do to definitely disable them is uncalculable and even less so while you are being attacked.

He wasn't going to tickle them under their armpits and have a 5 second break to check if they tap out!

The law was clarified a few times over the last few years, you can't attack people that are leaving your premises, anything else goes provided it is clear that their presence is not wanted.

There was still no need for them to arrest the old man on the spot, I think he had enough excitement for the night without the police adding to it. The case will probably go to court and the charge almost certainly won't be murder.

So what would you do @Ex if you are 78 and you are protecting yourself, your disabled wife and your property?


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Excoriator] #1054252
5th Apr 2018 4:22pm
5th Apr 2018 4:22pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 326
Wallasey
H
Habdab Online content
Old Hand
Habdab  Online Content
Old Hand
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 326
Wallasey

You can't seriously expect the police to write off a death and do nothing because the deceased was a burglar, surely to goodness! And if it there is a possibility that it was murder, then you really can't expect the police to allow him to wander around and possibly murder someone else.[/quote]


There's a very simple solution. Shoot all the burglars and honest people won't have to kill them protecting what is rightfully theirs
.
Would you have just allowed him to ransack your home Excoriator, to take all the things you'd collected throughout your life? You can't seriously expect people to stand idly by when an armed man breaks into their home equipped to cause injury.
Tell me you would and you've lost ANY credibility you might have had here.
Also, I seriously doubt the gentleman is a homicidal maniac that would go on the prowl looking for further victims to stab. He was defending what was rightfully his against a low life scumbag that can't be bothered being a decent member of society. Before you go off on one whining about how he must be a poor deprived victim, let me tell you there are millions of poor deprived victims that don't choose to steal from pensioners or anyone else for that matter. It was the burglar's choice to enter the man's house, he deserved whatever he got. It wasn't as if the old man had gone looking for someone to stab was it?


Fetere sum, ego sum Ergo
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054262
5th Apr 2018 4:54pm
5th Apr 2018 4:54pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
As usual, the hangers and floggers are all over this like a rash!

You really have no idea what went on. Neither do I, and it seems the police clearly think it needs investigating too. The one who died made it to hospital before doing so. Perhaps the police heard a very different story from him and the householder. Or perhaps the householder's story simply didn't fit the facts. He may even have a History of violent assault in the past. We just don't know yet.

I think you people would approve of the procedure in the court Alice attended in Wonderland where the sentence was carried out first, followed by the verdict after which came the evidence etc.

Curiously UK law holds the curious notion that human life is more valuable than any property. People who believe differently might like to decide the financial value of a human life. I would not be too surprised if someone would be stupid enough to do so!

Last edited by Excoriator; 5th Apr 2018 5:00pm.
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054273
5th Apr 2018 8:25pm
5th Apr 2018 8:25pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 326
Wallasey
H
Habdab Online content
Old Hand
Habdab  Online Content
Old Hand
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 326
Wallasey
Oh well done Excoriator, you really do show your full potential on here. I wonder if you'd be so defensive of the criminals if it was your home they burgled?


Fetere sum, ego sum Ergo
Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054274
5th Apr 2018 8:40pm
5th Apr 2018 8:40pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
You dont often read about a police fire arms officer being arrested following a fatal shooting of a suspect. Best you get is the officer put on gardening leave and a independant police inquiry launched.
Interesting to see if this actually gets any further than CPS

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054275
5th Apr 2018 8:44pm
5th Apr 2018 8:44pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,366
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,366
Wirral
This is only a closed forum Ex , not a jury deciding ! So ,with a discussion like this , most of just tend to take the most likely scenario , and comment on what we think about the various actions taken. Ok, so there's a million to one chance that the 78yr old had invited the teenagers to come along for a midnight cuppa and cake , had a funny turn, grabbed the screwdriver the kindly lads had brought along to do odd jobs for him , and decided to murder one in cold blood.

Not very likely though , is it .Far more likely its exactly as it looks . Weapon carrying yobs appear suddenly in the middle of the night in the home of a 78yr old , who is terrified ,panicky and vulnerable ,fearing what was going to happen to his poor wife upstairs when one of them pushes him into the kitchen. Enough to make any normal person lash out in terror .

If it all turns out to be quite different from what most of us presume, then fine, we'll just give views on the new evidence. What harm has been done ?

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1054281
5th Apr 2018 9:33pm
5th Apr 2018 9:33pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
They could have been a couple of paedo vigilantes going in to sort out the 78 year old...(pigs might fly) ...> Either way he has in law the right to defend himself ...

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Habdab] #1054282
5th Apr 2018 9:42pm
5th Apr 2018 9:42pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
Originally Posted by Habdab
I wonder if you'd be so defensive of the criminals if it was your home they burgled?


I like to think I would, Habdab. Most certainly I would not have taken a knife and stabbed a burglar to death to protect my possessions. I'd prefer to lose the lot than have a man's blood on my hands. I have been burgled myself. It is irritating, but not the end of the world. I certainly didn't feel annoyed enough to wish the burglar dead.

That isn't to say I WANT to be burgled, and would be very happy to see the perpetrators face the law for it, but nothing I have is worth a man's life.

Obviously, you have a strong urge to vengeance and won't agree, but I think people come first and property very much second.

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: fish5133] #1054283
5th Apr 2018 9:45pm
5th Apr 2018 9:45pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
Originally Posted by fish5133
They could have been a couple of paedo vigilantes going in to sort out the 78 year old...(pigs might fly) ...> Either way he has in law the right to defend himself ...


The right to bear arms maybe Fish? And look where that's got America!

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: Excoriator] #1054284
5th Apr 2018 10:04pm
5th Apr 2018 10:04pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,366
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,366
Wirral
Originally Posted by Excoriator
I think people come first and property very much second.


The 78 yr old probably agreed with you Ex - he was putting the lives of himself and his wife first - I doubt he was bothered about his property at that particular moment ,just terrified he and his wife might be about to die.

Re: Why On Earth Did They Arrest Him? [Re: cools] #1054291
6th Apr 2018 12:37am
6th Apr 2018 12:37am
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,406
Here.
RUDEBOX Offline

Wiki Master
RUDEBOX  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19,406
Here.
Originally Posted by cools

It's no surprise that you disagree with most people Ex, that halo of yours must get very heavy...
What!? He disagrees with the two or three regular contributors on Wiki and thats it- you have him hung drawn and quartered? Cools, YOU are the one with pro-longed Ex. issues. See your previous posts. Nobody else. Behave.

Last edited by RUDEBOX; 6th Apr 2018 12:42am.

Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Finds from 18/07/18 double silver!
by Detecting_wirral. 19th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Newsflash - Wirral's newest Retail Park
by Greenwood. 18th Jul 2018 1:12pm
Dog restrictions on beaches dropped
by Greenwood. 17th Jul 2018 1:41pm
Hose Pipe Ban
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2018 1:34am
Kitchen Supplier & Fitter + other Recommendations
by Itsme. 16th Jul 2018 10:40pm
For Sale & Free
BBQ Gas Bottle
by delta6. 16th Jul 2018 6:28pm
Gaz 907 bottle
by Snodvan. 12th Jul 2018 8:30pm
China Jardiniere
by The2Veggies. 12th Jul 2018 8:05pm
Freestanding Cooker Urgently Needed
by The2Veggies. 12th Jul 2018 7:58pm
Frame Tent
by Snodvan. 12th Jul 2018 1:30pm
Member Spotlight
TRANCENTRAL
TRANCENTRAL
Underground
Posts: 13,484
Joined: April 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Tom_Chisholm, MarSal, Mcavoy, FatGuyOnABike, Liangi08
12674 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Kitchen Supplier & Fitter + other Recommendations
by Itsme. 16th Jul 2018 10:40pm
apprenticeship for electricians mate
by kazaroo. 12th Jul 2018 2:47pm
Qualified Electrician Needed
by spgb1a. 12th Jul 2018 11:08am
Unknown road name
by max232. 10th Jul 2018 10:41am
Taxi to Manchester airport - recommendations?
by CarterUSM. 9th Jul 2018 10:17am
News : New Topics
Newsflash - Wirral's newest Retail Park
by Greenwood. 18th Jul 2018 1:12pm
Dog restrictions on beaches dropped
by Greenwood. 17th Jul 2018 1:41pm
Hose Pipe Ban
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2018 1:34am
Serious Accident Arrowe Park
by fish5133. 14th Jul 2018 5:10pm
More threats to Wirral's Green Belt
by Greenwood. 12th Jul 2018 1:55pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Finds from 18/07/18 double silver!
by Detecting_wirral. 19th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Renault Modus 2010
by chrislfc87. 16th Jul 2018 1:48pm
Finds from today 14/11/18 silver again!o
by Detecting_wirral. 14th Jul 2018 10:11pm
Selling Euro ace
by leelad03. 14th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Nearly
by diggingdeeper. 13th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 5:09am
Sunset Fri 9:27pm
Local Time Fri 7:14am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1