Welcome to WikiWirral, sharing is what we do best.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,031,121
Topics75,982
Members13,952
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs4
Most Online14,906
Nov 23rd, 2019
Who's Online Now
23 registered members (7 invisible), 1,222 guests, and269 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Can anyone recommend an experienced Physio Wirral
by Longnails. 17th Sep 2021 5:41pm
The CB Radio Wirral FB Page
by TheGodSplinter. 14th Sep 2021 3:04am
Admin'/Mark...
by TheGodSplinter. 13th Sep 2021 5:13pm
daftness for a satdeeeee
by GaryFromWirral. 4th Sep 2021 1:52pm
New Wirral History
Seacombe Riverview St. Laundry
by mautry. 12th Sep 2021 8:47pm
Missing Seacombe Street
by mautry. 1st Sep 2021 9:12pm
Info on Granville Terrace / Wood Lane please/
by JadyW. 22nd May 2020 8:59am
Mersey Park Primary School
by Maisie. 12th Mar 2011 2:14pm
River Fender
by Erainn. 30th Jan 2011 6:22pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
New Brighton Artwork
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
Topic Replies
Emma Radacuna
by diggingdeeper. 18th Sep 2021 4:33pm
'Help' on Channel 4, 16th Sept.
by diggingdeeper. 18th Sep 2021 4:14pm
Afghanistan
by mikeeb. 18th Sep 2021 12:45pm
the over flow on bidston moss
by mikeeb. 17th Sep 2021 9:44am
Flooding
by mikeeb. 17th Sep 2021 9:40am
Can You Recommend a Landscape Gardener in Wirral
by sneakypete. 16th Sep 2021 2:33pm
Mersey Park Primary School
by Kimberly459. 16th Sep 2021 9:23am
Bultaco pursang
by BultacoAstro. 13th Sep 2021 10:03am
Seacombe Riverview St. Laundry
by bert1. 12th Sep 2021 9:08pm
September
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Driverless cars #1053731
20th Mar 2018 3:26pm
20th Mar 2018 3:26pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
I see that a woman pedestrian in Arizona was killed by an autonomous Uber vehicle under test and Uber has suspended its autonomous vehicle program there.

That people seem convinced that these things are ever going to be better than human beings baffles me. Even the fact that human drivers are required 'if the car cannot handle a situation' doesn't seem to dent this faith, despite the fact that it is clear evidence that the things are potentially dangerous. As a learner driver, I was taught amongst other things to slow down when passing groups of kids on the pavement and if possible to give them a wide berth.

I very much doubt that there is an algorithm that would reliably detect kids mucking about - or say a drunk - let alone take appropriate action to ensure their safety.

Google Ads
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053737
20th Mar 2018 6:33pm
20th Mar 2018 6:33pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Heswallish
as skeptical as you EX about them. Man is fallible and is the one inputting the data.. They may have there place somewhere

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053746
20th Mar 2018 9:16pm
20th Mar 2018 9:16pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
It was an Uber semi-autonomous car, they are NEVER supposed to be autonomous, it is not designed that way, its not supposed to be used that way, they are merely a driver assist, much the same as you would use cruise control.

Of course the media chooses to muddy the waters.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 20th Mar 2018 9:19pm.

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053751
21st Mar 2018 8:01am
21st Mar 2018 8:01am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
So its ok for SEMI-autonomous cars to kill people? I don't use cruise control. If I can't control the speed of the vehicle without assistance I probably shouldn't be driving it.

The more 'assistance' you build in, the more dangerous they become.

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053752
21st Mar 2018 8:41am
21st Mar 2018 8:41am
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,310
Skid Row
_Ste_ Offline

Wiki Master
_Ste_  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,310
Skid Row
I agree, they are a danger and should be banned, totally ridiculous idea.

Those one pedal does all nissans are ridiculous too, they should also be banned.

don't become a lazy nation people!


[Linked Image][Linked Image]

I KNOW YE WATCHING YE RAT!
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053753
21st Mar 2018 9:59am
21st Mar 2018 9:59am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 358
Wallasey
H
Habdab Offline
Old Hand
Habdab  Offline
Old Hand
H
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 358
Wallasey
I wonder how many accidents would occur if you took Humans totally out of the equation? The most efficient TRAIN I've ever travelled on is the Aerotrain in Kuala Lumpor airport, Malaysia. No driver, no problems.
Autonomous cars are coming, we'll just have to learn to accept them, or should we all go back to horses and carts?


Fetere sum, ego sum Ergo
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053754
21st Mar 2018 10:03am
21st Mar 2018 10:03am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Master
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Oxton
Uber Victim Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Car
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-suddenly-in-front-of-self-driving-uber

Meanwhile, earlier this week a driver controlled and operated car went into a river and a child died. 4 people die on average every day in the UK. Should we ban all driver operated cars?

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053756
21st Mar 2018 12:05pm
21st Mar 2018 12:05pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by Excoriator
So its ok for SEMI-autonomous cars to kill people?


It didn't, the driver did or the pedestrian did, same as a conventional car and which happens far too regularly.

This happened in Arizona where there are jaywalking laws, ie cars have right of way except at specific crossing points.

In this instance the car issued warnings to the driver and he ignored them. If this had been an autonomous car it would not have issued warnings it would have stopped.

There have been no deaths caused by an autonomous car yet.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053757
21st Mar 2018 12:38pm
21st Mar 2018 12:38pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
Quite apart from the safety aspects, it turns out that very few people WANT a self-driving car. Polls reveal that only about 20% want one. I can understand this. I would prefer to drive than to be driven even by people whose driving I completely trust. The time passes quicker.

The idea of sitting there waiting for the car to mistake a parked caravan for the open road, or to be baffled by a wheelie bin blown onto the road so I have to take over is NOT my idea of fun.

I think these self driving cars are just a way of manufacturers foisting more unnecessary and expensive high-tech junk on us. It is their equivalent of the ALDI automatic egg boiler. Totally pointless, it takes up takes up space and probably does a worse job of it than you or I do with a saucepan.

Re: Driverless cars [Re: diggingdeeper] #1053758
21st Mar 2018 1:19pm
21st Mar 2018 1:19pm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Oxton
Gibbo Offline
Forum Master
Gibbo  Offline
Forum Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,229
Oxton
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper

In this instance the car issued warnings to the driver and he ignored them. If this had been an autonomous car it would not have issued warnings it would have stopped.


The link I posted said:

Quote
The Uber had a forward-facing video recorder, which showed the woman was walking a bike at about 10 p.m. and moved into traffic from a dark center median.

"It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode,” Sylvia Moir, the police chief in Tempe, Arizona, told the San Francisco Chronicle.

"The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them," Moir said, referring to the backup driver who was behind the wheel but not operating the vehicle. "His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision."


As for polls, it depends which one you read. The American ones have low support, but this British one is more favourable:

http://www.ukautodrive.com/survey-finds-uk-public-still-open-minded-about-self-driving-vehicles/

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053759
21st Mar 2018 1:49pm
21st Mar 2018 1:49pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
You might feel rather differently about these contraptions had you read:

"Driverless Cars: On a Road to Nowhere (Perspectives)" bt Christian Wohlmar

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053760
21st Mar 2018 2:18pm
21st Mar 2018 2:18pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
One thing that is often overlooked in the negative reports on autonomous cars is that you will no longer need a driving licence or driving test, this could considerably reduce the number of pedestrians. It could be an absolute godsend for many elderly people.

Additionally if all cars are autonomous you need less road space and even have the majority of minor roads one way which will make more space for pedestrians and narrower roads to cross.

Furthermore pedestrians can be given absolute priority at specified crossing places (press a button and the cars WILL stop).

I'm not suggesting I agree with all the above but if safety is a priority they are things that should be considered. There are loads of safety solutions that aren't currently in use because they know humans will ignore them - you only have to look at speed limits!

I love driving and rue the day that autonomous will take over BUT I also think our whole transport systems are pretty rubbish. Using buses in areas you don't know is quite a gamble unless you waste quite a bit of time planning and researching, there are many times I'd like to just pop on a train and get near my destination but the nearest stations are miles away from my destinations.

The Governments should be working hard on test systems for autonomous vehicles, in many software systems the test schedule had to be written (and reviewed) before the programs were even started. It concerns me that some of the autonomous designs primarily rely on optics and some of these aren't even roof mounted.

I've seen a lot of dangerous designs (both software and hardware), testing is where the public money should be spent.

@Gibbo The car gave warnings to the driver before this incident, the driver was operating the vehicle unsafely. Being semi-autonomous it wouldn't have the same level of safety built in as a fully autonomous car that would look at pre-empting the pedestrians possible movements.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 21st Mar 2018 2:21pm.

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053761
21st Mar 2018 4:13pm
21st Mar 2018 4:13pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
E
Excoriator Offline OP
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Offline OP
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,773
wirral
Quote
One thing that is often overlooked in the negative reports on autonomous cars is that you will no longer need a driving licence or driving test, this could considerably reduce the number of pedestrians.


Indeed it could DD.That is exactly what I am worried about!

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053763
21st Mar 2018 6:17pm
21st Mar 2018 6:17pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,953
Birkenhead
Just like a passenger in a car, bus, train, aeroplane or ship doesn't need a licence or test.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053765
21st Mar 2018 7:27pm
21st Mar 2018 7:27pm
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 443
wallasey
A
assassin Offline
Smartchild
assassin  Offline
Smartchild
A
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 443
wallasey
thing that worries me, many a time I've been in Wales or Scotland and my phone loses gps same with some tunnels, and if run by computer how long before someone hack it, then it's just a big remote control car, as for driveless trains they are on rails so not much can go wrong.



Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Emma Radacuna
by cools. 17th Sep 2021 9:53am
'Help' on Channel 4, 16th Sept.
by Greenwood. 17th Sep 2021 9:20am
Can You Recommend a Landscape Gardener in Wirral
by sneakypete. 14th Sep 2021 2:13pm
Seacombe Riverview St. Laundry
by mautry. 12th Sep 2021 8:47pm
Flooding
by cools. 10th Sep 2021 1:59pm
For Sale & Free
Nike Air Max 95 - Greedy 3.0 size 8.5
by Peter0787. 30th Aug 2021 3:21pm
Cat Boot's Size 9
by BultacoAstro. 23rd Aug 2021 9:28am
Member Spotlight
diggingdeeper
diggingdeeper
Birkenhead
Posts: 13,953
Joined: July 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Ellem146, Kimberly459, TalkieToaster77, nidgy, Brighty90
13952 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Going to Hilbre island
by ultimate. 4th Sep 2021 4:44pm
Galtres School Bebington
by AllanB. 20th Aug 2021 7:36am
Dock Branch Park
by mikeeb. 6th Feb 2021 1:03pm
News : New Topics
Emma Radacuna
by cools. 17th Sep 2021 9:53am
'Help' on Channel 4, 16th Sept.
by Greenwood. 17th Sep 2021 9:20am
Flooding
by cools. 10th Sep 2021 1:59pm
WARNING
by lincle. 5th Sep 2021 12:56pm
Afghanistan
by BultacoAstro. 27th Aug 2021 9:44am
New Enthusiast Forums
Can You Recommend a Landscape Gardener in Wirral
by sneakypete. 14th Sep 2021 2:13pm
Bultaco pursang
by Bultaco. 13th Mar 2019 12:43pm
the over flow on bidston moss
by paul110180. 24th Mar 2013 8:05pm
What song are you listening to?
by . 24th Jun 2007 10:06am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sat 6:52am
Sunset Sat 7:19pm
Local Time Sat 7:49pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1