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Driverless cars #1053731
20th Mar 2018 3:26pm
20th Mar 2018 3:26pm
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wirral
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Excoriator Offline OP
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I see that a woman pedestrian in Arizona was killed by an autonomous Uber vehicle under test and Uber has suspended its autonomous vehicle program there.

That people seem convinced that these things are ever going to be better than human beings baffles me. Even the fact that human drivers are required 'if the car cannot handle a situation' doesn't seem to dent this faith, despite the fact that it is clear evidence that the things are potentially dangerous. As a learner driver, I was taught amongst other things to slow down when passing groups of kids on the pavement and if possible to give them a wide berth.

I very much doubt that there is an algorithm that would reliably detect kids mucking about - or say a drunk - let alone take appropriate action to ensure their safety.

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Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053737
20th Mar 2018 6:33pm
20th Mar 2018 6:33pm
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Heswallish
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as skeptical as you EX about them. Man is fallible and is the one inputting the data.. They may have there place somewhere

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053746
20th Mar 2018 9:16pm
20th Mar 2018 9:16pm
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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It was an Uber semi-autonomous car, they are NEVER supposed to be autonomous, it is not designed that way, its not supposed to be used that way, they are merely a driver assist, much the same as you would use cruise control.

Of course the media chooses to muddy the waters.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 20th Mar 2018 9:19pm.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053751
21st Mar 2018 8:01am
21st Mar 2018 8:01am
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wirral
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Excoriator Offline OP
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So its ok for SEMI-autonomous cars to kill people? I don't use cruise control. If I can't control the speed of the vehicle without assistance I probably shouldn't be driving it.

The more 'assistance' you build in, the more dangerous they become.

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053752
21st Mar 2018 8:41am
21st Mar 2018 8:41am
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New Brighton
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I agree, they are a danger and should be banned, totally ridiculous idea.

Those one pedal does all nissans are ridiculous too, they should also be banned.

don't become a lazy nation people!

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053753
21st Mar 2018 9:59am
21st Mar 2018 9:59am
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Wallasey
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I wonder how many accidents would occur if you took Humans totally out of the equation? The most efficient TRAIN I've ever travelled on is the Aerotrain in Kuala Lumpor airport, Malaysia. No driver, no problems.
Autonomous cars are coming, we'll just have to learn to accept them, or should we all go back to horses and carts?


Fetere sum, ego sum Ergo
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053754
21st Mar 2018 10:03am
21st Mar 2018 10:03am
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Oxton
Gibbo Offline
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Uber Victim Stepped Suddenly in Front of Self-Driving Car
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-suddenly-in-front-of-self-driving-uber

Meanwhile, earlier this week a driver controlled and operated car went into a river and a child died. 4 people die on average every day in the UK. Should we ban all driver operated cars?

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053756
21st Mar 2018 12:05pm
21st Mar 2018 12:05pm
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by Excoriator
So its ok for SEMI-autonomous cars to kill people?


It didn't, the driver did or the pedestrian did, same as a conventional car and which happens far too regularly.

This happened in Arizona where there are jaywalking laws, ie cars have right of way except at specific crossing points.

In this instance the car issued warnings to the driver and he ignored them. If this had been an autonomous car it would not have issued warnings it would have stopped.

There have been no deaths caused by an autonomous car yet.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053757
21st Mar 2018 12:38pm
21st Mar 2018 12:38pm
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Quite apart from the safety aspects, it turns out that very few people WANT a self-driving car. Polls reveal that only about 20% want one. I can understand this. I would prefer to drive than to be driven even by people whose driving I completely trust. The time passes quicker.

The idea of sitting there waiting for the car to mistake a parked caravan for the open road, or to be baffled by a wheelie bin blown onto the road so I have to take over is NOT my idea of fun.

I think these self driving cars are just a way of manufacturers foisting more unnecessary and expensive high-tech junk on us. It is their equivalent of the ALDI automatic egg boiler. Totally pointless, it takes up takes up space and probably does a worse job of it than you or I do with a saucepan.

Re: Driverless cars [Re: diggingdeeper] #1053758
21st Mar 2018 1:19pm
21st Mar 2018 1:19pm
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Oxton
Gibbo Offline
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper

In this instance the car issued warnings to the driver and he ignored them. If this had been an autonomous car it would not have issued warnings it would have stopped.


The link I posted said:

Quote
The Uber had a forward-facing video recorder, which showed the woman was walking a bike at about 10 p.m. and moved into traffic from a dark center median.

"It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode,” Sylvia Moir, the police chief in Tempe, Arizona, told the San Francisco Chronicle.

"The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them," Moir said, referring to the backup driver who was behind the wheel but not operating the vehicle. "His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision."


As for polls, it depends which one you read. The American ones have low support, but this British one is more favourable:

http://www.ukautodrive.com/survey-finds-uk-public-still-open-minded-about-self-driving-vehicles/

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053759
21st Mar 2018 1:49pm
21st Mar 2018 1:49pm
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wirral
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Excoriator Offline OP
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You might feel rather differently about these contraptions had you read:

"Driverless Cars: On a Road to Nowhere (Perspectives)" bt Christian Wohlmar

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053760
21st Mar 2018 2:18pm
21st Mar 2018 2:18pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,816
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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One thing that is often overlooked in the negative reports on autonomous cars is that you will no longer need a driving licence or driving test, this could considerably reduce the number of pedestrians. It could be an absolute godsend for many elderly people.

Additionally if all cars are autonomous you need less road space and even have the majority of minor roads one way which will make more space for pedestrians and narrower roads to cross.

Furthermore pedestrians can be given absolute priority at specified crossing places (press a button and the cars WILL stop).

I'm not suggesting I agree with all the above but if safety is a priority they are things that should be considered. There are loads of safety solutions that aren't currently in use because they know humans will ignore them - you only have to look at speed limits!

I love driving and rue the day that autonomous will take over BUT I also think our whole transport systems are pretty rubbish. Using buses in areas you don't know is quite a gamble unless you waste quite a bit of time planning and researching, there are many times I'd like to just pop on a train and get near my destination but the nearest stations are miles away from my destinations.

The Governments should be working hard on test systems for autonomous vehicles, in many software systems the test schedule had to be written (and reviewed) before the programs were even started. It concerns me that some of the autonomous designs primarily rely on optics and some of these aren't even roof mounted.

I've seen a lot of dangerous designs (both software and hardware), testing is where the public money should be spent.

@Gibbo The car gave warnings to the driver before this incident, the driver was operating the vehicle unsafely. Being semi-autonomous it wouldn't have the same level of safety built in as a fully autonomous car that would look at pre-empting the pedestrians possible movements.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 21st Mar 2018 2:21pm.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053761
21st Mar 2018 4:13pm
21st Mar 2018 4:13pm
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wirral
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Excoriator Offline OP
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Quote
One thing that is often overlooked in the negative reports on autonomous cars is that you will no longer need a driving licence or driving test, this could considerably reduce the number of pedestrians.


Indeed it could DD.That is exactly what I am worried about!

Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053763
21st Mar 2018 6:17pm
21st Mar 2018 6:17pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,816
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Just like a passenger in a car, bus, train, aeroplane or ship doesn't need a licence or test.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Driverless cars [Re: Excoriator] #1053765
21st Mar 2018 7:27pm
21st Mar 2018 7:27pm
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 379
wallasey
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assassin Offline
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wallasey
thing that worries me, many a time I've been in Wales or Scotland and my phone loses gps same with some tunnels, and if run by computer how long before someone hack it, then it's just a big remote control car, as for driveless trains they are on rails so not much can go wrong.



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