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Joined: May 2012
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I'am in full agreement with both you and Ex about our odious government, however they are briefed by the military and no doubt other sources in the know that can't be disclosed, which then leaves the question of who is the most likely culprit, fact, the Russians developed this agent, would they give access of it to others outside of Russia? consequence of so doing, it could be used against themselves by one of the many satellite states in conflict or dispute with them.
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If this attempted "hit" had been confined and contained to a specific property and persons then the consequences might of been less severe, but to have multiple areas contaminated plus a member of the police also contaminated seems to indicate that the operation was bungled and that our response was more than they expected, so their response is prove it, and act as the outraged party.
Last edited by casper; 15th Mar 2018 8:50pm.
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If this attempted "hit" had been confined and contained to a specific property and persons then the consequences might of been less severe, but to have multiple areas contaminated plus a member of the police also contaminated The conundrum here is the doctor who happened to be passing and helped Sergei's daughter Yulia who wasn't breathing and was vomiting, this doctor was totally unaffected by the poison. The infected policeman seems an unusual case, he was reported as attending the scene but then reported as attending Sergei's home and yet the focus remained strongly around the cafe? What are the odds of a Detective Sergeant being sent and arriving as the first policeman at the incident scene? There are different reports as to whether Yulia was slumped on the bench against Sergei or slumped at Sergei's feet? I've not ploughed through all the media in this case but I don't think they have categorically said where the poison initially came into contact with the victims? The other elephants in the room are how Sergei's wife and son died without any significant questions being asked, was that a UK cover-up? As usual it is difficult to see what is media elaboration/invention and what actually happened.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn https://ddue.uk
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...the Russians developed this agent, would they give access of it to others outside of Russia... Well yes, most certainly they would. During the Soviet era, I'm quite sure it would have been accessible to all members of the USSR. And clearly Porton Down knew of it. So evidently it isn't a particular secret. As to Skripal, he had spent a term in prison in Russia. They could have bumped him off then, but they didn't. They swapped him for some American spies I think; itself an indication that he was not a particular danger to them ay more. Given that, why on earth should they suddenly decide to wind up the West and kill him with nerve agent, decades after? As Poirot was wont to say to his dim stooge: "We do not 'ave a moteeve, 'Astings!" You have to be dim indeed to swallow the government's line on this without asking a few pointed questions.
Last edited by Excoriator; 16th Mar 2018 1:49am.
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...the Russians developed this agent, would they give access of it to others outside of Russia... Well yes, most certainly they would. During the Soviet era, I'm quite sure it would have been accessible to all members of the USSR. And clearly Porton Down knew of it. So evidently it isn't a particular secret. As to Skripal, he had spent a term in prison in Russia. They could have bumped him off then, but they didn't. They swapped him for some American spies I think; itself an indication that he was not a particular danger to them ay more. Given that, why on earth should they suddenly decide to wind up the West and kill him with nerve agent, decades after? As Poirot was wont to say to his dim stooge: "We do not 'ave a moteeve, 'Astings!" You have to be dim indeed to swallow the government's line on this without asking a few pointed questions. Does it not seem strange that it almost a rerun of the Litvinenko murder with the same response from the Russians, prove it? lets look for a motive, Russians do a deal get what they want then take back their part of the bargain, to understand this you have to understand the Russian mentality the motherland, loyalty to the state, behind the McDonald's and designer label culture there is still the inbred link to the Stalin days of loyalty to the state, the outraged reply by the Russians is a typical response, how many former members of the Soviet Union are now still allied to them? and last of all what would the benefit be to others to set us against the Russians, we hold no direct threat to them, we barely have the capability to look after ourselves. I do hope you are not casting me as Astings Ex
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I don't accept your theories as to the Russian 'mentality'. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that people are much the same and have much the same aims needs and desires wherever they hail from.
But I go back to the fact that the ONLY 'evidence' available is that the chemical used was developed by the Russians many years ago, and is now apparently well known. That is not sufficient to prove anything. May's attempts to assemble an international lynch mob makes me even more suspicious, as does her reluctance to provide the accused with samples of it, her refusal to follow the procedures laid down by the Convention on CBW, and I know to my own cost how untrustworthy and inept she is.
Interestingly, I was drinking with a friend in a pub last night, and at an adjacent table were a group of friends who were discussing the matter. From what I overheard, they were all as deeply sceptical of the government's claims as I am. Hardly a representative sample of the UK population who seem to be easily swayed to the government line, but it was good to know that their propaganda has not been 100% successful.
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Appreciating all the differing opinions here keep it up..Nothing like a good spy story...just sad its nearly resulted in 2 deaths. Seem to remember in the Litvenko case he survived for quite a while before finally dying are we going to see the same in these 2.
Like you DD i noticed differing or drip fed bits of information ...suppose not surprising with the way media put their stories together. I think what is more intriguing is what we are not being told and the way in which the Govt handle it. I doubt May and Boris know what MI5/MI6 know.
Whilst on school crossing duty yesterday i had an agitated lady (not picking kids up) who walked past me a couple of times and then again after i finished i saw her again jabbering away on her mobile in russian or polish.. Never seen her before there and dressed in black leather jacket, black tight leggings and trainers....reminded me of Max Wall.... !!
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Plot thickening ? https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/Of A Type Developed By Liars 187
16 Mar, 2018 in Uncategorized by craig murray|
I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve gas as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them to do so. Porton Down would only sign up to the formulation “of a type developed by Russia†after a rather difficult meeting where this was agreed as a compromise formulation. The Russians were allegedly researching, in the “Novichok†programme a generation of nerve agents which could be produced from commercially available precursors such as insecticides and fertilisers. This substance is a “novichok†in that sense. It is of that type. Just as I am typing on a laptop of a type developed by the United States, though this one was made in China.
To anybody with a Whitehall background this has been obvious for several days. The government has never said the nerve agent was made in Russia, or that it can only be made in Russia. The exact formulation “of a type developed by Russia†was used by Theresa May in parliament, used by the UK at the UN Security Council, used by Boris Johnson on the BBC yesterday and, most tellingly of all, “of a type developed by Russia†is the precise phrase used in the joint communique issued by the UK, USA, France and Germany yesterday:
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Ummmm could be even those EU skunks trying to make us see how much safer we are staying with them and not brexiting, stronger together and all that against the big bad bear!!..
I am being facetious , think that is going too far or is it??
Last edited by cools; 16th Mar 2018 2:55pm. Reason: Adding a word
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Thanks snowhite. sheds more light on the handling of it from Govts side
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rumours in press that the agent was in the daughters suitcase (planted of course..not deliberately brought in which would ruin Govts stance.. ) heard once it was referred to as "an accident" rather than deliberate.. If that is the case will we see the Tories collapse and along with it Brexit negotiations and pave the way for new election in which Corbyn might stand a chance???
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Ummmm could be even those EU skunks trying to make us see how much safer we are staying with them and not brexiting, stronger together and all that against the big bad bear!!..
I am being facetious , think that is going too far or is it?? Well cools its certainly worthwhile looking outside the box especially when its being so neatly wrapped with a big Russian Bear stuck to it. A little research can find plenty of "reputable" sources showing that Novochoks were produced in other countries than Russia and that the Americans were involved in one factory in Uzbekistan. (According to a BBC article in 1999) I suspect the speed of poison id and who dunnit , before full investigation is more about controlling the UK public and giving a semblance of control.
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Ummmm could be even those EU skunks trying to make us see how much safer we are staying with them and not brexiting, stronger together and all that against the big bad bear!!..
I am being facetious , think that is going too far or is it?? Well cools its certainly worthwhile looking outside the box especially when its being so neatly wrapped with a big Russian Bear stuck to it. A little research can find plenty of "reputable" sources showing that Novochoks were produced in other countries than Russia and that the Americans were involved in one factory in Uzbekistan. (According to a BBC article in 1999) I suspect the speed of poison id and who dunnit , before full investigation is more about controlling the UK public and giving a semblance of control. I think the confusion here arises from the word Novichoc, Novichoc is a generic word that covers a list of nerve agents with a particular makeup that varies in the degree of strength, the milder forms of this agent where indeed manufactured at other locations however this particular deadly strain was allegedly only manufactured by the Russians, and was supposed to have been destroyed under supervision. I must agree that the rabid statements given by Bobo Johnson and the other muppet that told the Russians to go away do nothing to enhance further investigation and only sour relationships further, maybe this is the plan to direct the focus away from the minefield Brexit has become, what next tweeting? Back to the motive, if we take a step back in time to 1942/43 when the Russian organised groups to form a counter intelligence / espionage agency, whose motto was Smert Shpioanam ( death to spies ) believed to be still active in the cold war days, I have added this to highlight the mindset and culture we are dealing with, to reiterate Putin a former hard man of the KGB is a disciple of Uncle Joe, and as such doesn't like losing and won't tolerate disloyalty to the state, the long arm reaching out to dispense justice.
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