WikiWirral Online with you since 2003, fantastic.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,005,725
Topics74,422
Members12,673
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs28
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
52 registered members (alan128, 10 invisible), 994 guests, and289 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
266 Nearly
New General Forums
Hi
by The2Veggies. 12th Jul 2018 8:07pm
Men for all seasons
by casper. 11th Jul 2018 10:32am
Delta 15 Scholarship
by diggingdeeper. 2nd Jul 2018 6:23pm
Trump separating children from parents.
by venice. 20th Jun 2018 12:27pm
New Wirral History
A Fizz From The Past
by diggingdeeper. 30th Jun 2018 8:49pm
Ashville Road Sports Ground
by derekdwc. 26th May 2018 1:14pm
Any pics of Bentinck Street
by derekdwc. 17th Oct 2012 11:25am
276 Rock Villa Hotel Ltd 329 Old Chester Road
by derekdwc. 18th Aug 2011 11:13pm
does anyone remember Beaufort Square, Birkenhead?
by oldbirkonian1. 29th Jun 2011 7:46pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Over Exposed Crash Site
Birkenhead Priory / Laird's crane today
Topic Replies
Hose Pipe Ban
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 9:42pm
Finds from 18/07/18 double silver!
by Detecting_wirral. 19th Jul 2018 9:30pm
Newsflash - Wirral's newest Retail Park
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 3:22pm
Ashville Road Sports Ground
by jimmy3. 19th Jul 2018 2:06pm
New Novichok Saga
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 12:04pm
124 North Western Hotel
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 12:00pm
276 Rock Villa Hotel Ltd 329 Old Chester Road
by diggingdeeper. 19th Jul 2018 11:57am
mens designer clothes
by Liangi08. 19th Jul 2018 10:32am
Kitchen Supplier & Fitter + other Recommendations
by Itsme. 19th Jul 2018 10:09am
July
M T W T F S S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Giants to visit New Brighton Lighthouse
by granny. 24th Jun 2018 10:43pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rating 3
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Russia #1053556
14th Mar 2018 6:49pm
14th Mar 2018 6:49pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,311
Wirral
C
cools Offline OP
Forum Master
cools  Offline OP
Forum Master
C
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,311
Wirral
After getting myself all worked up over the Trump and Kim thing now I've got to worry about this! We could do without having Russia as an enemy! I mean can they really really prove it was the Russian government who did this or some other source who have made it look that way? I don't know enough about it all really , just find it worrying again...

Google Ads
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053558
14th Mar 2018 9:47pm
14th Mar 2018 9:47pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
If we managed to identify the nerve agent as Novichok then we must be able to produce it and the same goes for many other countries.

It pays a lot of other countries for this to happen, it is of no benefit to the UK nor Russia.

To identify the chemical as Russian is a joke but of course the USA have goaded us on. Furthermore the Russians are right, we haven't followed the Chemical Weapons Convention.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053570
14th Mar 2018 10:56pm
14th Mar 2018 10:56pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
Right DD "qui bono" (who benefits) in stirring up discord between UK and Russia?

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053571
14th Mar 2018 11:38pm
14th Mar 2018 11:38pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
Most of the EU countries, the last thing they want when we leave is any sort of pact or co-operation between us and Russia.

USA because their military want the cold war to start again to get more power and funding.

Any of the middle east countries that we have done our best to totally mistreat, they are desperate for attention to wander elsewhere.

Anybody that wanted to test a nerve agent without it being traced to source.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: Russia [Re: diggingdeeper] #1053573
15th Mar 2018 9:21am
15th Mar 2018 9:21am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,557
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,557
wallasey
Come on folks, you cant see the wood for the tree's, poor old Russia is being blamed maligned, it wasn't us guv, so why don't they cooperate? any right minded person / government would go out of their way to prove they were innocent but no, deny deny deny, basically we have had the two fingers, they have done it before and got away with it and expected the same to happen again.

As to the middle east dd, I am sure if the had access to Novichok they would have used it in a more effective manner.

The EU involved really, we trained in Germany as part of NATO for years, who do you think the threat was from?

The most likely scenario is Putin is up for election and wanted to send a message to those thinking of opposing him, no place to hide.

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053574
15th Mar 2018 9:58am
15th Mar 2018 9:58am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,856
Wirral
snowhite Offline

Wiki Addict
snowhite  Offline

Wiki Addict
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,856
Wirral

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053575
15th Mar 2018 9:59am
15th Mar 2018 9:59am
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 83
Wallasey village
N
Near_Oval Online Reading
Member
Near_Oval  Online Reading
Member
N
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 83
Wallasey village
Another view of election time in Russia is that he is able to show an appearance of strength in power - average Russian citizen has no interest in overseas issues neither are thery impacted by what the UK could bring into play as sanctions.
But they can be impressed by sabre rattling on UK part as being given the figurative two fingered salute.

I believe the nerve agents have specific chemical signatures that can be traced to orignal source/development, how have the powers that be not publicised this?
One source a=stated it can take weeks to unpick the composition is it possible UK has jumped the gun?

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053582
15th Mar 2018 11:41am
15th Mar 2018 11:41am
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
I don't think the average voting Russian wants reminding of the KGB, it could be a dodgy strategy. Other than that its true they want a "strong" President that wouldn't keel over at the first challenge.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053586
15th Mar 2018 1:20pm
15th Mar 2018 1:20pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
casper;;; russia may know its innocent and just wants to make the UK government look complete idiots..you can learn a lot about your opponent and their tactics when you hold 4 aces and they claim to have one. Dont feel too safe after watching the UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson he looks like an undergraduate fresh out of Eaton.

Re: Russia [Re: fish5133] #1053588
15th Mar 2018 1:53pm
15th Mar 2018 1:53pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,557
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,557
wallasey
Don't forget that we are dealing with a culture its History steeped in mistrust, cruelty and mass murder, worse than that of the Nazis if that is possible, that fear still lurks in the background for those that oppose the hardliners, this is a country that has no qualms in murdering its own people and they care very little about what others think, their troops are highly trained in nbc warfare, Civilian aircraft shot down (it wasn't us guv) others murdered on uk streets deny, deny , deny, the question is how long do we turn a blind eye?

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053607
15th Mar 2018 3:08pm
15th Mar 2018 3:08pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,722
Birkenhead
Also don't forget we are dealing with a Tory Government who are used to lying and getting away with it to the gullible Tory voters.

Watching the various comments by May, Boris, Gavin Williamson etc shows how accustomed they are to saying anything they like despite no evidence it is true.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053610
15th Mar 2018 5:26pm
15th Mar 2018 5:26pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
DD is correct. I see no motive for Russia or Putin to assassinate a spy who was imprisoned and later exchanged in the cold war, particularly in such a manner calculated to cause hackles to be raised in the West. Blaming Russia is a bit like finding someone bludgeoned to death by a giant frozen Cornish pasty and concluding that the Cornwall County council are responsible! Laughable.

I suspect Ukraine may be responsible. It would have had access to the poison used during the Soviet period, and having lost a lot of what it maintains is its territory to Russia has every motive to discredit its enemy. Another possibility is the UK. It is remarkable how the assassination has swept from the media all reference to the EU's complete rejection of all the proposals made by Mrs. May in her last brilliant party-uniting speech. Also, it will do no harm to the armed forces and the security forces when the next doling out of cash takes place of course.

Casper. It is very easy to paint ANY country as black as you like. Look at the UK with wealth built on slavery, its activities the Scottish clearances and the brutality of the Black and tans in Ireland for instance. More recently we have the 'shoot to kill ' policy in Northern Ireland and Bloody Sunday. In the mainland, we had the police in the West Midlands writing statements to imprison innocent people, and even today we have the most appalling prison conditions, filthy, overcrowded and rat infested. Our streets are littered with people sleeping in shop doorways and food banks because people cannot feed themselves on their wages. I mention this not to 'prove' the UK is worse than any other country, but rather to show how easy it is to paint a false picture of a country.

Finally, I wonder what is meant by 'military grade' nerve agents. It implies there may be 'industrial' grades that will give you a disabling bellyache but not kill you, and perhaps 'commercial' grades that will just make you twitch a bit! But probably the real reason is to make it sound more scary, so nobody will question the government blaming Russia.

Sadly, we have a government to whom the truth is meaningless.

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053614
15th Mar 2018 5:57pm
15th Mar 2018 5:57pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,679
Heswallish
Casper is half right but like myself many years back i had the rose tinted specs of Great Britain being a wonderful benign country helping to rid the world of Hitler etc etc. Thats part true but as you say EX a closer look at our own History is embarrassing if you wave the pontifical arent we good drum.
The classic false flag was the Israelis who blew up the King David Hotel disguised as arabs..

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053616
15th Mar 2018 6:34pm
15th Mar 2018 6:34pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,514
wirral
Well, I was born in 1942, and as a young boy firmly believed we had won WW2. As I grew older I realised that it was Hitlers decision to attack Russia, that had 'won' the war for us. It was a disastrous campaign for them as well as Russia, and the Russians lost an estimated 20 million people in it, The German army was defeated by a combination of Russian resistance and their terrible winters, rather than by the UK. Compared to what that did to the German war effort the UK's contribution was far smaller. Had Hitler invaded the UK rather than heading east, there is little doubt we would have lost.

It appears from what I have since read that Hitler was something of an anglophile, and felt that England would eventually come over to his side. There is some justification for this too. A large section of the aristocracy was sympathetic to fascism, and at the time they were a lot more powerful than they are now. The Daily Mail, for instance, actually supported Hitler at one point!

The devil is, as ever, in the detail, and when you start looking into what one thinks are indisputable facts, the smell of sulphur is often very noticeable.

Re: Russia [Re: cools] #1053618
15th Mar 2018 6:49pm
15th Mar 2018 6:49pm
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
Leasowe
B
Bobario Offline
Member
Bobario  Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
Leasowe
I've never been one for conspiracy theories but I think there is more to this than meets the eye. I think the Russians have messed with us once too often and our government have finally decided to draw a line in the sand and warn them off. Lots of Russian defectors killed on the streets and regular air and sea intrusions on our territory.

Unfortunately there may not be a way to pin this 100% on Russia. Any tom dick and harry could get their hands on the basic recipe as it is in the inventors book. Also, the factory that used to manufacture it was in Uzbekistan (iirc), and was apparently closed down by a US team (who could have taken samples and/or the formula). If its old stock any batch numbers would surely lead away from Russia.

If the PM is right and we have concrete proof that this stuff came from Russia why are we not sending samples to them and the OPCW?

Also, why the hell are we vaccinating our troops against anthrax? Have we got another batch of dodgy vaccines to test on our poor troops like they did in the 1st gulf war?

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Finds from 18/07/18 double silver!
by Detecting_wirral. 19th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Newsflash - Wirral's newest Retail Park
by Greenwood. 18th Jul 2018 1:12pm
Dog restrictions on beaches dropped
by Greenwood. 17th Jul 2018 1:41pm
Hose Pipe Ban
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2018 1:34am
Kitchen Supplier & Fitter + other Recommendations
by Itsme. 16th Jul 2018 10:40pm
For Sale & Free
BBQ Gas Bottle
by delta6. 16th Jul 2018 6:28pm
Gaz 907 bottle
by Snodvan. 12th Jul 2018 8:30pm
China Jardiniere
by The2Veggies. 12th Jul 2018 8:05pm
Freestanding Cooker Urgently Needed
by The2Veggies. 12th Jul 2018 7:58pm
Frame Tent
by Snodvan. 12th Jul 2018 1:30pm
Member Spotlight
TRANCENTRAL
TRANCENTRAL
Underground
Posts: 13,484
Joined: April 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Tom_Chisholm, MarSal, Mcavoy, FatGuyOnABike, Liangi08
12674 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Kitchen Supplier & Fitter + other Recommendations
by Itsme. 16th Jul 2018 10:40pm
apprenticeship for electricians mate
by kazaroo. 12th Jul 2018 2:47pm
Qualified Electrician Needed
by spgb1a. 12th Jul 2018 11:08am
Unknown road name
by max232. 10th Jul 2018 10:41am
Taxi to Manchester airport - recommendations?
by CarterUSM. 9th Jul 2018 10:17am
News : New Topics
Newsflash - Wirral's newest Retail Park
by Greenwood. 18th Jul 2018 1:12pm
Dog restrictions on beaches dropped
by Greenwood. 17th Jul 2018 1:41pm
Hose Pipe Ban
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2018 1:34am
Serious Accident Arrowe Park
by fish5133. 14th Jul 2018 5:10pm
More threats to Wirral's Green Belt
by Greenwood. 12th Jul 2018 1:55pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Finds from 18/07/18 double silver!
by Detecting_wirral. 19th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Renault Modus 2010
by chrislfc87. 16th Jul 2018 1:48pm
Finds from today 14/11/18 silver again!o
by Detecting_wirral. 14th Jul 2018 10:11pm
Selling Euro ace
by leelad03. 14th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Nearly
by diggingdeeper. 13th Jul 2018 5:32pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 5:09am
Sunset Fri 9:27pm
Local Time Fri 7:14am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1