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What do you think of this? #1053444
12th Mar 2018 2:23pm
12th Mar 2018 2:23pm
Joined: Aug 2005
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New Brighton
_Ste_ Offline OP
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_Ste_  Offline OP
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I will NOT comply. That's my thoughts.

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Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053473
12th Mar 2018 4:02pm
12th Mar 2018 4:02pm
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Wallasey
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Salmon Online content
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I think this is long overdue, outside every school you see parents waiting for anything up to half an hour with engines running. Makes no sense at all to me quite apart from the cost of the wasted fuel. It will of course be like the litter wardens with so few enforcers as to make little impact.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053474
12th Mar 2018 4:25pm
12th Mar 2018 4:25pm
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Heswallish
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Pointless really . How many so called officers are they going to have patrolling. Personally doing the school crossings i dont see many who leave engines running as most get out the vehicles to meet little johnny at the school. Worst offenders if it really is an offence are the black cab drivers at the ranks. If i am correct its not an offence only if you actually get out the vehicle "quitting" with the engine running.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053492
13th Mar 2018 6:52am
13th Mar 2018 6:52am
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WALLASEY
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saltytom Online content
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Noticed 9 cars on Green Lane and Bayswater Rd engines running when waiting to pick up there children from school, when I
walking dog . Probably will not get enforced.

Last edited by saltytom; 13th Mar 2018 6:54am.
Re: What do you think of this? [Re: saltytom] #1053494
13th Mar 2018 9:08am
13th Mar 2018 9:08am
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wallasey
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It has always been an offence to leave a vehicle unattended with the engine running, but this new deal may be to do with air pollution, as written in previous posts it happens a lot outside schools, it is also annoying and hazardous to health to have radios blasting at full volume, one drives down our road to drop kids off at the childminder I am in the kitchen making a cuppa and I can hear the thump thump of the music right through to the back of the house, imagine what it must be like for the little uns strapped in the back.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053496
13th Mar 2018 12:30pm
13th Mar 2018 12:30pm
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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The relevant bits of wording from the 2002 act are:-

"12.—(1) An authorised person who has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle that is stationary on a road is committing a stationary idling offence may, upon production of evidence of his authorisation, require him to stop the running of the engine of that vehicle.

(2) A person who fails to comply with a requirement under paragraph (1) shall be guilty of an offence and be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
"

So the fine-able offence is refusing to switch off your engine when asked to by an authorised person, this doesn't make it illegal to idle your car when stationary.

I can't find any reference to "stationary idling" in the often quoted Road Traffic Act 1988 section 42


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: What do you think of this? [Re: Salmon] #1053497
13th Mar 2018 12:34pm
13th Mar 2018 12:34pm
Joined: Aug 2005
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New Brighton
_Ste_ Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Salmon
I think this is long overdue, outside every school you see parents waiting for anything up to half an hour with engines running. Makes no sense at all to me quite apart from the cost of the wasted fuel. It will of course be like the litter wardens with so few enforcers as to make little impact.


That is a valid point salmon however what I do not agree with not being able to leave the engine running for two minutes whilst waiting for someone who has nipped into the shop thus resulting in a fine.

It is just another way of stealing from the public, more made up trash to get free money.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053503
13th Mar 2018 2:24pm
13th Mar 2018 2:24pm
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I think the key words are 'after being asked by an officer'. They might send someone to hot spots, but I very much doubt there will be blanket enforcement of any sort; they haven't the resources. Having said that, if I arrive early so I can find a convenient parking place to pick up my grandsons from school I wouldn't dream of leaving the engine running even in winter, though I've seen some who do.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053505
13th Mar 2018 3:26pm
13th Mar 2018 3:26pm
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Excoriator Offline
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I used to catch a bus at James St. in the morning. This seemed at the time to be a favourite place for the drivers to stop and buy a cuppa, but as often as not I was unable to even see my bus arriving thanks to a wall of empty buses - the engines ALL left running - and being simultaneously kippered in diesel fumes.

If the council can stop something similar happening to schoolchildren, then good on them. Maybe CCTV could be used to prosecute the stupid buggers and impose a hefty fine. £20 is far too little.

A Zafira burns about 3/4 of a litre of fuel when idling, and if you have the aircon on it goes up to 1.1 litres an hour. Remember those free plastic bags? They are about 50% made of oil and weigh about 4 grams. So sitting for 30 minutes wastes as much oil as 250 plastic bags.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053507
13th Mar 2018 4:47pm
13th Mar 2018 4:47pm
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Posts: 448
birkenhead
dustymclean Offline

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Try vhttp://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/part/6/madeehicle emissions regulations 2002. 61 and 61a

Last edited by dustymclean; 13th Mar 2018 4:51pm.
Re: What do you think of this? [Re: dustymclean] #1053526
13th Mar 2018 6:26pm
13th Mar 2018 6:26pm
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Posts: 12,002
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by dustymclean
Try vhttp://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/part/6/madeehicle emissions regulations 2002. 61 and 61a


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/part/6/made#text%3D%22stationary%20idling%22

That's the bit I quoted in blue above, however there has to be an underlying act that specifies the "stationary idling offence", this is normally quoted as being the Road Traffic Act 1988 section 42, but both the original and modified versions of Section 42 don't make any reference to stationary idling offences.

Last edited by diggingdeeper; 13th Mar 2018 6:27pm.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: What do you think of this? [Re: diggingdeeper] #1053527
13th Mar 2018 6:35pm
13th Mar 2018 6:35pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 311
Upton, Wirral
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locomotive Online content
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How about the Taxis waiting by Birkenhead market, they sit there in a queue with their engines running for quite a while gassing every body who walks past, it can't be economic anyway never mind the fumes.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: locomotive] #1053540
13th Mar 2018 11:26pm
13th Mar 2018 11:26pm
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I can't work out why they do it, considering that modern diesel cars shut down the engine even when stopped for ten seconds at the lights. They do this to reduce fuel consumption, and it seems to be well worth doing too.

Hopefully, as the taxi drivers buy more intelligent cars the EMU will override their stupidity.

Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053541
13th Mar 2018 11:58pm
13th Mar 2018 11:58pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,002
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Loads of factors to take into account and many unrealistic or misleading figures stated on the internet (I've even seen claims you use more fuel at idle than driving at 30mph I presume the fiddle is because they compare stone cold idle against warmed up driving)

Another wild claim I've seen is that you can keep the car interior warm by switching off the engine, switching ignition on and putting the heater fan on.

Customers moan if the taxi isn't warm

Batteries go flat if loads of short journeys.

Pollution is minimal at idle compared to driving or starting.

Wear and tear through starting, temperature cycling etc.

Car technology.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: What do you think of this? [Re: _Ste_] #1053544
14th Mar 2018 9:26am
14th Mar 2018 9:26am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 448
birkenhead
dustymclean Offline

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birkenhead
Can you be charged? if the car is electric.

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