Forums Forums National News Boris getting worried?

A good question, Casper. I think DD is refusing to acknowledge real difficulties that exist. Leaving is going to make all sorts of difficulties, however, whether they are recognised by DD and other brexit enthusiasts or not.

He also seems to confuse a customs union with trade agreements as in "Aruba has free trade agreements without freedom of movement." For the record, the two are quite different. A trade agreement covers only certain specified goods. A Customs union covers ALL goods. A customs union has already been agreed with the EU. It is the inevitable consequence of a 'no borders' policy with Ireland which was agreed in phase 1. You can have a trade agreement without free movement, but the EU has made it clear from day one that we cannot have a customs union with them without free movement.

He also says "There is already an EU controlled military,"

Really?

What is it called? Where is it based? Are you confusing it with the Joint Expeditionary Force - which is something the UK is keen to remain within. Mrs May is going to negotiate this, after speeches from MI6 and GCHQ emphasising how important it is.

Also the EU's GDP was 18.9 trillion Euros in 2015, as opposed to the USA's 18.3 trillion. So it IS richer, and it is more populous. Both the population and GDP will grow as new members join. The EU is already successful as a union. Nobody seriously wants a USE. Can you seriously see France, for instance, abolishing its nation to form the USE? It is a ridiculous accusation.

Brexiteers have an eighteenth-century notion of trade which seem to ignore the current highly globalised way in which industry and finance work. Cars for instance are no longer entirely made in any country. Rather. they are assembled from component parts which can come from almost anywhere in the world. Our car parts come from Europe. A hard Brexit would mean the UK having to pay duty on wheels or engines, or doors or radiators manufactured in the EU which would raise the cost of the car here. There are multiple similar industries where the same thing would apply. Are we still going to make wings for European Aircraft in Broughton? Or will they simply cut their losses and make them in France?

These and many other problems have to be faced and resolved. It's no use pretending they don't exist.

Finally, trade agreements can take decades because each side wants an advantage. If we leave the EU, we will be able to get a very fast one with another country - say the US - provided we agree to everything they want. May and Co. are stupid enough to do this, and we will find the Health service run by a private US company, and accept GM food, chlorine-washed chicken and all the rest of it in exchange for selling them matchboxes or something. It will be advertised here as a triumph, but it will be a disaster if its quick.

There are thousands of types of trade agreements, I'm not going to talk about one type to get shot down for not mentioning a different type. Every customs union, tariff-free, free-trade etc etc etc deal is negotiated line by line, there is no such thing as a global "customs union", there are always ifs, buts, thens to create indirect tarfiffs, something the EU specialises in so they can fool half the people half the time.

I believe we want a tariff-free agreement, a free-trade or customs union would be a bonus but something unlikely due to EU blocking us, even though they would benefit the EU more than the UK.

The tariff part of a trade agreement is usually the simplest part of the negotiations, there are almost always reams of paper on other matters than tariffs, this can be anything whatsoever and sometimes is totally unrelated to trade. Trade agreements are used to force a countries politics on another.

I'll start off a separate topic when I get time to create an expose of the EU military forces and intents, it won't be comprehensive but will be enough to show how it exists and is and has been developing. Just a few teasers before I dig up the details .... one country has handed all of one of its forces over to EU control, the EU has a number (8?) of brigades (or battalions? 1500? strong each), the intent to create an EU military has been written into EU documentation for a long time.

Putting words in my mouth then saying I am wrong is a sure sign that there must be flaws in your arguments otherwise you would not need to do it. If you want to disagree with me, stick to disagreeing with what I have written if you want to retain any credibility.

These are YOUR words and they are totally untrue. The most that can be said is that SOME people in SOME countries want out. As brexit has demonstrated, anyone who wants to leave can do so. No other country has.

Brexit has NOT - as hoped for by Farage and Co - resulted in any exodus. Far from it. There is a waiting list of countries wanting to join! as detailed here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11283616

At the moment the EU economy is growing strongly and it is most unlikely that anyone but the Brits want out. In fact, the polls now indicate that even here, there is a majority of remainers. It is perfectly clear now that brexit is going to be a disaster for the UK.Why you continue to defend it is baffling!

How can you say that my statement is "totally untrue" then go on to agree with what I said, I'm obviously missing your point?

"queue" implies more than one, I did not say "all" nor even "many".

IMHO, Poland would seriously consider leaving if it wasn't for the financial bribe. Greece would leave if they hadn't been taken over financially. Italy, maybe Spain, maybe France are somewhere around 50/50 but each have complex issues. Then there are Denmark, Sweden, Czechoslovakia and Hungary who aren't very happy with a number of issues. If Brexit succeeds then Ireland may find itself having to leave which is another reason the EU are appearing very awkward on the Brexit deal.



Of course countries want to join, the first thing that happens is loads of money gets thrown their way BUT the EU is running out of money to give away and Brexit will hit this badly. If the EU take on more countries they will no longer be able to pay the Polish bribe and Poland will leave, they will also have a problem bailing out Greece again and may have to forfeit Greece on favourable terms.