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Brexit payment
#1051211
10th Jan 2018 2:56pm
10th Jan 2018 2:56pm
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621 Wirral
venice
OP

Forum Guardian
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OP

Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
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A friend sent me this and Im not sure whether I agree with him or not .He seems right, but would Mrs May really put herself in that position? Thought Id put it on here to get other opinions. Sorry if the points been covered before and I missed it. Beginning of friends question. " I really do hope that you can convince me I am wrong. This https://www.conservativehome.com/pa...-we-achieve-them-by-different-means.html is the most concise evidence I could find to sustain my opinion. Not surprisingly it appears to say I am wrong but think about her words and you will understand why I said she has irrevocably given the money away.I do not see where she states “ the agreement” is an offer subject to a satisfactory trade agreement. I do see that she has identified the billions agreed as being fair settlement for nothing else other than fair settlement of commitments. So having clearly identified the payment as being for “obligations” she goes into full bullshit mode and states. “It depends upon a broader agreement being reached – as I have said, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed – so if there is no agreement then our offer also falls away." So deal or no deal the EU will claim we are obliged to pay that money as payment for commitments. Having put in writing what is agreed and what it’s for can you imagine the EU doing other than use her own words to destroy our reputation if we tried to walk away without paying? (end of friends comment)
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Re: Brexit payment
[Re: venice]
#1051217
10th Jan 2018 6:23pm
10th Jan 2018 6:23pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper

Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867
Birkenhead
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The obligations are always questionable, we are a shareholder in the EU, when you give up your shares it is exceedingly unusual for the obligations to not also be wiped out.
Additionally the next EU budget is set in 2020, any so called obligations should only be those that are due to be paid before the next budget.
But in reality I don't mind paying a reasonable sum especially if there is a transition period. That sum ideally should exceed our expected NET contributions up to 2020 but unfortunately it will
There will only be one final signature, all prior "agreements" will be conditional one would hope, I can't see how it can be any other way as up to that signature we cannot be anything other than EU members.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Brexit payment
[Re: venice]
#1051264
11th Jan 2018 2:18pm
11th Jan 2018 2:18pm
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759 wirral
Excoriator
Forum Addict
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Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,759
wirral
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I think you people should face the facts. The first phase of the negotiations involved agreeing what we owed. That was done and is now History. It was agreed by Mrs May, as was the 'no borders' policy which means we are locked into the customs union. There is absolutely nothing linking these with any trade agreements. They have been signed off and agreed. We would not be entering phase two unless they were. The only way we can get out of both these agreements is a 'no deal' brexit. Anything coming from the conservative party will be deliberately made ambiguous so that both brexiteers and remainers in the party will read it the way they want it to read. The facts, however, are as above. So far we have agreed to pay a great deal of money to be in the customs union (as we are now) but to have no control over it! I don't - for once - blame the conservatives for this. They have no choice. It is the inevitable consequence of getting out of the EU according to laws which WE agreed to as members.
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Re: Brexit payment
[Re: Excoriator]
#1051274
11th Jan 2018 6:10pm
11th Jan 2018 6:10pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper

Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867
Birkenhead
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How can we "owe" anything when we have ALWAYS been a net contributor. Unlike most other member states we have always put in more than we have taken out. We owe nothing. if anything, they owe us. That is a "fact". There is absolutely nothing linking these with any trade agreements. The EU INSIST that trade, finance and freedom of movement are linked - its funny how they change their own impositions when they are dealing with Brexit! The whole EU concept is flawed that it relies on certain countries continually gifting money to other countries, they should have been limited loans with re-payments based on trade-balance. That way their would be an incentive for the EU to get these other countries on their feet properly instead of just being a cash-cow putting useless tin statues up all over the place. But of course Germany wanted a cheap flexible workforce to boost its own economy so it pays Germany to keep some of the other countries in poverty.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Brexit payment
[Re: venice]
#1051282
11th Jan 2018 6:52pm
11th Jan 2018 6:52pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper

Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867
Birkenhead
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As a net contributor DD, surely that just means that the system must have worked out what was fair for each country to pay, according to its means and we accepted that position. I dont see that that necessarily means that just because we will be leaving , we can now choose to reposition ourselves in the 'what is fair for them to pay' list , to avoid paying our previously agreed share of past present or future obligations or committments right up to 2020? My point is that we cannot possibly be considered in debt to them so we "owe" them nothing. There is no such thing as a "future obligation", they are agreements which can be changed especially if circumstances change and Brexit would count as a pretty big change. I'm sure many of those projects will change in the 2020 budget. The EU claimed obligations go way beyond 2020. Supposing we weren't a net contributor, would the EU pay us their "obligations" to our Brexit? That is a normal test of a fair contract, it can't be one sided.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Brexit payment
[Re: Excoriator]
#1051285
11th Jan 2018 6:57pm
11th Jan 2018 6:57pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper

Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,867
Birkenhead
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The UK agreed to the conditions now being imposed by the EU.
That is seldom mentioned by the EU-bashers. You find it, it isn't mentioned in Article 50 or anywhere else. The EU are making imaginary conditions up as they go. None of the EU conditions apply to the UK when we leave. In fact Article 50 states "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements". So the exit rules are set by the leaver as part of its own constitution, not the EU.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Toyah . .
by GaryFromWirral. 10th Jan 2021 1:39pm
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AQUARIUM
by lincle. 8th Jan 2021 10:47am
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Toyah . .
by GaryFromWirral. 10th Jan 2021 1:39pm
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