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Fitting bathroom lights need help #1047821
17th Nov 2017 11:29pm
17th Nov 2017 11:29pm
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yr20405 Offline OP
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Just ordered one of these lights http://www.argos.co.uk/product/4325420
and they only have 3 slots L N and E from here http://documents.4rgos.it/v1/static/4325420_R_D001

Here is the link with the wires in my ceiling https://imgur.com/a/FgP0O

so which wires do I slot where and which wires will I need to tape up?


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Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047823
18th Nov 2017 1:42am
18th Nov 2017 1:42am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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You'll need to put one more connector inside.

Mains - Onward mains - Switch Cable -----Lamp Fitting


...................... N(Red sleeve)....... L

L ..... L ............ L

N ..... N ................................. N

E ..... E ............E.................... E

As you can see, the mains-live and onward-mains-live and switch-live-cables don't go to the light fitting and need the extra connector.

You don't need to identify which is main and onward--mains, just wire them together.

Don't loose the red sleeve, that identifies the switch and indicates the cable is or can be live never mind what colour the insulation is. It may not be on the neutral coloured wire, it appears to be using yellow (or white?) on yours?

Basically you connect all four earths together, all four neutrals together, three lives together on an extra connector and the sleeved return from the switch goes to lamp fitting live.

*Four means three cables and lamp fitting.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047824
18th Nov 2017 1:50am
18th Nov 2017 1:50am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Easier still, don't disconnect anything, chop the two existing leads that go to existing lamp, connect them to new lamp and add an earth wire. ie, keep the existing 4-way connector block.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047829
18th Nov 2017 11:39am
18th Nov 2017 11:39am
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DD's second post is the best way to do it.

To clarify, you'll need a short length of green/yellow wire to connect from the earth terminal on the 4-way block to the earth terminal on the new lamp. Three terminals, three wires. Red to live(L), black to neutral(N) and green.yellow to earth(E). Job's done. Good luck.

Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047851
18th Nov 2017 11:11pm
18th Nov 2017 11:11pm
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fish5133 Offline
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first switch power off at mains and double check wires with tester
!!

Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: fish5133] #1047854
19th Nov 2017 1:23am
19th Nov 2017 1:23am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by fish5133
first switch power off at mains and double check wires with tester
!!


Yep, I forgot to mention that. Also, even if you have an RCD consumer unit which normally protects you from a serious shock, the lighting circuits are sometimes intentionally wired without the RCD.

A large part of my working life was on non-domestic live equipment up to silly voltages, I usually handle wires as though they are live whether they are or not.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047856
19th Nov 2017 9:07am
19th Nov 2017 9:07am
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I think treating things as if they are live even when you know they are not is excellent advice. I adopted this when rewiring my home, and it paid off when working in the attic I connected the last wire and the light came on! I had forgotten to switch off the power on that one occasion! I took a meter with me after that to double check.

Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047940
20th Nov 2017 3:42pm
20th Nov 2017 3:42pm
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yr20405 Offline OP
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[Linked Image]

Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047944
20th Nov 2017 4:20pm
20th Nov 2017 4:20pm
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That is pretty much it. Before you cut the live (red) wire check that it will reach the live on the new fitting.
Turn off the power and check it is off with a tester.
Turn the power off and double check it is off.
Make sure the power is off.

Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047966
20th Nov 2017 8:11pm
20th Nov 2017 8:11pm
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yr20405 Offline OP
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Thanks for the help and I have another light that I need fitting for the kitchen.

[Linked Image]
I'm thinking of using the wires below to connect the new light up.

Are these the right connections from the photo yellow/green E, Blue N and the last colour L?

Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047969
20th Nov 2017 10:05pm
20th Nov 2017 10:05pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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I've just realised that in both these cases they may have put the switch in the neutral not the live which is wrong and very dangerous!

In fact your first fitting should not work? If it did work then it means the whole of your colour coding is inconsistent and wrong.

The Blue and Yellow wires should be the two wires (plus an earth) that go to the switch, in both cases the blue is connected to neutral and I suspect may not being used as a switch line.

You need somebody to check this properly, its usually not much of a job to switch the wires (or maybe sleeve them appropriately) round but it should be done right.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1047973
20th Nov 2017 10:52pm
20th Nov 2017 10:52pm
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Woah, DD you are right, I just noticed in the first pic that red is only a sleeve over a yellow (switch wire) and that is seemingly connected to live! The second one with presumably white paint over the wires makes no sense either
What has gone on here? No doubt a professional close look is needed.

Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: Salmon] #1048027
21st Nov 2017 4:35pm
21st Nov 2017 4:35pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by Salmon
Woah, DD you are right, I just noticed in the first pic that red is only a sleeve over a yellow (switch wire) and that is seemingly connected to live! The second one with presumably white paint over the wires makes no sense either
What has gone on here? No doubt a professional close look is needed.


In the unusual circumstances of using a switched neutral, the yellow should still have a red sleeve because when the switch is off the neutral side of the device is live because its supply comes through the equipment.

In the case of domestic electrics its a complete no-no, even more so on lighting circuits where with the switch off you don't expect to have live in the lampholder eg when changing a bulb or accidentally smashing one.

I'm really surprised they permit lighting circuits to be rcd-free in the current regulations, you can see the logic of the problem if a whole lighting circuit goes down, but with it being common that people change bulbs and light-fittings it seems to be contrary to the whole concept of having rcds at all.


We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Fitting bathroom lights need help [Re: yr20405] #1048284
24th Nov 2017 3:41pm
24th Nov 2017 3:41pm
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yr20405 Offline OP
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Thanks. I'll get someone to look at it.


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