Forums Forums General Forums A - Z Lifestyle Waning enthusiasm for brexit.

But Ex, snowhite was talking specifically about illegal immigrants. Surely you're not condoning those ? As well as the points DD raised, what about home security in terms of without checks, we dont know what sort of miscreants or murderers we might be harbouring ? what about the fact that illegal workers dont contribute towards the country's taxes ?
Are you really happy and 'perfectly relaxed' with all that ?

Yes i was talking about illegal immigrants Venice.
Makes one wonder how Ex sees all this.totally wrong in my point of view.

Thank goodness we live in a country where we can hold our own views and discuss without being shot or mutilated.

Granny, do you not realise how unrealistic you are being?

We have our PM flying in a panic to Brussels, and achieving nothing! Not even a joint press conference resulted from the meeting, only a statement that both sides want things to speed up. Big step forward? You must be joking! It means absolutely nothing. Nobody wants this miserable charade to drag on forever. They never did, so there has been no change whatsoever.

What I think IS significant is that it is our hopeless PM that is doing the flying, while Junker is politely, but firmly saying 'No' after generously finding ninety minutes to hear Mrs May's request, after which she returned grim-faced, clearly having got nowhere.

And here you are STILL clinging to the ridiculous claim that "They need us more than we need them!"

And you, bizarrely, seem to believe we had austerity imposed on us by the EU! In fact the EU would not be able to impose austerity on us as we have our own currency. The truth of the matter was that the Tories imposed austerity on us because they are a bunch of incompetents who - despite everything - still seem to believe you have to run a country like a corner shop. (I read a book by Paul Krugman who pointed out that the UK was about the only country to impose austerity on itself! No other country would do so as it iss well known it doesn't work! Guess what! It didn't!)

I can't be bothered to go through all your claims, Granny. They are too numerous and too crazy to treat seriously. But the fact remains that in terms of negotiations we have got nowhere. Nor will we. The EU have not shifted one milimetre, and indeed why should they. We have made our own bed and will lie on it. Their concern is with the well being of the EU, not the well being of the UK. The UK, by contrast, has nothing to offer that they particularly want or need.

It is increasingly looking as if we will have no deal, no transition period, no access to free trade, no 'special treatment' and will be left to find markets as best we can with the rest of the world. We can look forward to a huge drop in the value of the pound, and the return of millions of expat Brits who will suddenly find their pensions nearly valueless in EU.

The alternative is to call off the whole brexit nonsense and stay in the EU. Support for this is growing, and I am pretty sure that either the HoC will vote it out, or that a referendum will be called that will result in a leave vote. Brexit is a bloody stupid idea. It always was a bloody stupid idea, and even those who failed to see this are now having their noses rubbed in what it actually means to ordinary UK citizens like you and me. Commonsense will prevail.

Locally we are seeing the first signs of brexit deindustrialisation happening in Vauxhall's in Ellesmere port. Companies like that do not shut down a successful factory in a single blow. They will increasingly find that the Ellesmere port cars (Astras) are not selling and will cut down on production bit by bit, and invest nothing in new models. Only when the place is running on a skeleton staff at a fraction of its full capacity will they announce it is no longer viable and shut it. It has happened often enough in the Northwest in other companies for it to be all to familiar and dismal a process.

And you are evidently happy about this Granny?

Sheesh!

Yes I am. I think the whole concept of 'immigrant' is an arbitrary one - legal or illegal. I was born in Wales and am now living in England but does that make me an immigrant? Or you might have been born in Yorkshire and are now living in Merseyside. Does that make you an immigrant? Of course not, because we have arbitrarily decided that the borders are unimportant and allow the free movement of people across them.

Ideally, anyone should be able to move about the world and live wherever they like, and really there is no good reason not to allow this. In practice, people do NOT choose to do this much at all unless wars or famines drive them to it in which case we have a moral obligation to support them. Usually, they move back as soon as its safe to do so anyway.

The assumption that all sorts of criminals will be attracted to this country is easily countered by the fact that many native UK criminals will leave. Many quite famous British criminals have departed to places like Brazil for instance where they are beyond the reach of our police.

We have had uncontrolled immigration here from the EU for decades without the economy collapsing, without us being 'swamped', and without any detectable effect on employment. Indeed in London which has the largest number of immigrants - legal and illegal - of any UK city, the economy seems to be on a perpetual boom!

The only reason for the existence of any rules on immigration is xenophobia. Interestingly, this seems to be manifested only in the old - my generation - who were brought up before the era of holidaying around the world, the internet, and other forms of communication. The young lack this morbid fear of foreigners because they holiday more or less where they like, work for companies based in other countries and communicate with people all over the world on a daily basis.

I have two daughters who both work for international companies. They are used to flying around the world for work and for pleasure and think nothing of going to weddings in places like Bali or staying with friends in Melbourne for a week etc. The world has changed, and the whole notion of 'immigrants' is becoming increasingly untenable.

You need to remember two things. The first is that you have no more to fear from a foreigner than you have from a native Brit, and the second is that "Support me and I will protect you from dangerous foreigners' is the oldest political trick in the brook, and as we live on an island it is very easy to pull this one on people here as Farage and his ilk have shown.

Keeps it going though, doesn't it ?

Maybe we could expand our ideas and have more fun with our cousins in New Zealand instead of the miseries in Europe.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/v...p;utm_campaign=Content&sf122519296=1

I see inflation is now at 3%. 50% more than the wage growth. Ain't brexit great?

But we've seen nothing compared to what is coming when we leave!

Yep, unexpected bill for the Government next April, pensions like the State and Civil Service pensions are calculated from the CPI on the previous September.

I expect they'll weasel out of it somehow.

I see the OECD has a dim view of the 'advantages' of brexit too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41652416

So much so that they suggest abandoning it would be the best plan. Failing that they urge the closest possible relationship with the EU to minimise damage to our economy.

Sooner or later I think May is going to have to go to the country and say "We have tried to secure a good deal for the UK and it has improved impossible to do so. Rather than severely damaging the economy we have decided to remain members for the foreseeable future"

And the sooner the better as far as we are all concerned.

I can't see anywhere in the article where it says or implies abandonment is the best option. It merely mentions there will be a dip. That is the financial markets for you, they make money by creating instability and panic, stability is not in their interests.

One would assume following Brexit day that UK production will go up and this will be driven by Government funding, it could be one of the best places in the World to invest. As you have said, the financial markets will have [artificially] driven the pound low, ideal for investment increases.

ok..Devils advocate

1) No party will dare call for another referendum in the short to medium term

2) May is not going to just say brexit is too difficult lets just forget it and stay in Europe

3) Would any party at a general election stand on a promise of reversing brexit (cons wont, would Labour and Corbyn?

4) what we may end up with is a brexit that doesn't mean brexit. e.g. we adopt everything that the EU has but not as a member

Times change. A few more months of no progress, cock-ups, inflation (it is forecast to get worse), more job losses, and the threat of a 'no-deal brexit might well see a vociferous majority demanding no brexit. Under such circumstances, the brexiteers may well call for a second referendum as a stop-gap measure in the hope that they can fool the public a second time.

I am pretty sure we are already seeing the start of an anti-brexit surge in opinion.

If I remember rightly, the EU said Brexit would be Brexit, and we would not have another chance if we voted Brexit.
Strange how the rules can change accordingly.
All they want is our money, even the President made that more or less clear tonight. £50-£60 billion he said....£20 billion is peanuts, he said. Once that is agreed we can move forward he said. Of course, that would be until the next hurdle where they would trip us up again, in an attempt to win the race.
What do you think Corbyn would do right now ? Offer £50-£60 billion ? Would you recommend that ?