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Waning enthusiasm for brexit. #1045840
15th Oct 2017 1:23pm
15th Oct 2017 1:23pm
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Excoriator Offline OP
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John McDonnell's view, expressed today, that a 'no deal' brexit is not going to happen because there is sufficient cross party opposition in the commons to stop it is the latest indication that the abandonment of brexit is increasingly a realistic possibiity.

A few months back and this sort of statement would have caused an outcry. Now it can be expressed with little surprise from anyone.

I feel, as a remainer, more optimistic now than I have been for ages. One can feel the enthusiasm for brexit trickling away, as the squabbling tories cock it up, and more and more facts about what departure will actually mean become apparent to the public. We are increasingly seeing polls reflecting a movement away from brexit, so a decision from the commons to abandon brexit will be greeted not with outrage as it would have been a few months back, but with general relief.

Last edited by Excoriator; 15th Oct 2017 1:25pm.
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Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045851
15th Oct 2017 4:21pm
15th Oct 2017 4:21pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Surely May will get kicked out first and whoever has the bottle to replace her will have a point to prove.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045853
15th Oct 2017 4:43pm
15th Oct 2017 4:43pm
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Can you think of a Tory better than May?

She is rubbish but so are her colleagues. I can't see her replacement being any more capable.

One further point is that membership of the union has changed many tasks of governance into forms of working together or taken them over altogether. It is worth also asking whether our politicians are now capable of running a country. My feeling is that they are not. The thought of this country alone in the world run by the existing government, for instance, horrifies me!

Last edited by Excoriator; 15th Oct 2017 4:45pm.
Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045855
15th Oct 2017 5:13pm
15th Oct 2017 5:13pm
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Seems to me that those who have some modicum of power are intent on muddying the waters to increase the profitability to their own ends. We had a democratic vote ergo the powers that be must abide by that.

Why would you openly discuss negotiating points so that you could be shot down before presenting them? This is a high level game of cat and mouse - we don't want to be the mouse and therefore will not telegraph the next move.

Much ado is being made by those who have something to lose, like a nice comfy seat at the European Parliament or even heading that institution, and they are very, very noisy.

Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045860
15th Oct 2017 6:24pm
15th Oct 2017 6:24pm
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Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.

Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: fish5133] #1045865
15th Oct 2017 6:59pm
15th Oct 2017 6:59pm
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Originally Posted by fish5133
Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.
Nigel Farage,might start up his own political party[I thought he would have by now].I really hope he does because if we do not leave the EU.... say goodbye to the United Kingdom.
May is all for illegals and open borders she is just like another Merkel.

Last edited by snowhite; 15th Oct 2017 7:00pm.
Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: snowhite] #1045867
15th Oct 2017 7:12pm
15th Oct 2017 7:12pm
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RUDEBOX Offline
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Originally Posted by snowhite
Originally Posted by fish5133
Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.
Nigel Farage,might start up his own political party[I thought he would have by now].I really hope he does because if we do not leave the EU.... say goodbye to the United Kingdom.
May is all for illegals and open borders she is just like another Merkel.


Who are these 'illegals' that you keep spouting about?

There is no such thing as an illegal or bogus asylum seeker. Under the 1951 Convention on Refugees, which the U.K has signed, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in the U.K, and to stay here, until there is a final decision on their application.


Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn

Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045879
15th Oct 2017 8:54pm
15th Oct 2017 8:54pm
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granny Offline
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Only the other day, Branson was going on about this. Stating that many who voted Brexit have died off and will die off soon !! He also said that in 5 years time more will have died off and he anticipates another referendum.
Now, apart from him having all the stats of how many people voted Brexit and how many of them have died ( obviously not such a secret ballot any longer) how very arrogant of him to think he is going on for eternity. He too could be dead in 5 yrs time, therefore his vote to remain didn't count for much either.
It is purely the empire builders, the MEP's and the politicians who look to their advancement in politics to higher levels,or to the UN or to Unicef ,or even to Peace Envoys (failed) etc. who are trying so desperately hard to disrupt the whole affair. Some of the old brigade who are Remoners , like Hestletine and Ken Clarke might also be dead in 5 yrs so they should shut up too.
It is a wonder who is likely to call another referendum anyway. Two and a bit political parties, the main two of which one committed on behalf of the electorate and the other not wanting to remain anyway(apparently now) after originally persuading the sheep in the party to follow their leader along with their trade union buddies.
Having looked at this topic on other social sites, I think the ball is most definitely still in the Brexit camp by a very long chalk. Only the 21-35's are blinded by all the hype and very childish propaganda that is being thrown around.
The unfortunate thing for them is, they were so disinterested in the referendum they all took themselves off to the music festivals, like Glastonbury, instead.

Last edited by granny; 15th Oct 2017 8:59pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: RUDEBOX] #1045882
15th Oct 2017 9:50pm
15th Oct 2017 9:50pm
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venice Offline

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Originally Posted by RUDEBOX
Originally Posted by snowhite
Originally Posted by fish5133
Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.
Nigel Farage,might start up his own political party[I thought he would have by now].I really hope he does because if we do not leave the EU.... say goodbye to the United Kingdom.
May is all for illegals and open borders she is just like another Merkel.


Who are these 'illegals' that you keep spouting about?

There is no such thing as an illegal or bogus asylum seeker. Under the 1951 Convention on Refugees, which the U.K has signed, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in the U.K, and to stay here, until there is a final decision on their application.


Maybe snowhite is referring to this in the Sunday Times

"More than one million illegal immigrants are at large in Britain and most are unlikely ever to be removed, the former head of immigration enforcement told MPs yesterday................
Mr Wood, who left the department in 2015, told the home affairs select committee: “There’s probably over a million foreigners here illegally at the moment. There’s a large number, so no one could ever remove those, really. What there needs to be is a consequence. [It] needs to be seen that there is a risk that if you don’t abide by the immigration rules, and you overstay or you commit crimes, there is real risk of being removed.”

Statisticians have said that it is impossible to quantify the number of people in the country unlawfully. In an estimate 12 years ago, the Home Office put the total unauthorised migrant population in 2001 at 430,000. It has not published an estimate of illegal immigration since, though in 2009 the London School of Economics put the figure at between 373,000 and 719,000."

Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045904
16th Oct 2017 8:03am
16th Oct 2017 8:03am
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Excoriator Offline OP
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Because someone is illegal doesn't make them unwelcome. I an many others are perfectly relaxed at the possible presence of a million immigrants here. It is only raging xenophobes and gullible folk who have been told by the right-wing press that gets upset by this.

And there are many perfectly legal people I'd be very happy to see chucked out. Including one N. Farage.

Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045905
16th Oct 2017 8:08am
16th Oct 2017 8:08am
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My point, however, is that opinion is clearly on the change. Brexit is now a lot less popular than it once was, and is becoming even less so. Soon it will be toxic.

Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045915
16th Oct 2017 8:38am
16th Oct 2017 8:38am
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by Excoriator
I an many others are perfectly relaxed at the possible presence of a million immigrants here. It is only raging xenophobes and gullible folk who have been told by the right-wing press that gets upset by this.


And people that want jobs, small businesses that are being put out of business, people that think the law should be upheld and people that are getting robbed (and even killed) by illegals that need money but can't receive benefits.

Originally Posted by Excoriator
My point, however, is that opinion is clearly on the change. Brexit is now a lot less popular than it once was, and is becoming even less so. Soon it will be toxic.


That is the trouble-stirring media saying that which you normally discard? How many leavers do you know that have changed their mind, the few I know have not changed their mind about the principal of Brexit, its the worry about what sort of trashy deal May is going to sign up to.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: diggingdeeper] #1045949
16th Oct 2017 10:44am
16th Oct 2017 10:44am
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granny Offline
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Put our money on the simple fact that if UK offered £100 billion , all would be a joy for the EU .

They need our money ,particularly with the pathetic promise of another 8 countries joining the EU, and they are all poor countries, offering nothing. No work, no money, no industry apart from a couple of countries that still have bears dancing on chains ! thumbsdown We provide for them at the expense of our young people. The more countries there are as member states, the less our own country will benefit. It's all very well for those who did the education, education, education thing, there are those who could never manage it, and if you take the concept of European countries, our grand kids could well be the next beggers of the future as they are in so many other countries (it's getting that way here now too. Mostly foreigners bringing their culture with them ). All it ends up with is Germany gaining more, as they always do from devious moves of buying out businesses and institutions. UK would be available to offer employment and benefits to EU migrants , plus a percentage of our finances, and more of our industries being watered down or sold off, in a bid to provide the new member states with a possible pathway of supporting themselves through the industries we once held dear.
All it needs is Germany to take the Bank of England and the agricultural land. Farming; one in 5 recipients of subsidies are billionaires . We had subsidies for farmers long before we joined the EU, but eventually when sovereignty of the UK had gone there would be nothing to stop the EU from taking control of land too, and saving them trillions in subsidies. Just like the dreadful outbreak of foot and mouth as a run up to 11 agricultural/farming countries joining the EU. If there was ever a fix in destroying an industry, that was it ! Then the wind machines were erected on the silent lands as compensation to some farmers.

Austerity has been imposed on ALL EU member countries , maybe some don't know that, but it would result in the Governments receiving less in return from the EU pot at times of austerity. Our Governments are controlled by Brussels, but in the not too distant future, we will be able to see the light again even if it is a struggle for a while. We are proud and so we should be, with eternal thanks to our relatives who fought in the two world wars defending us from the things we are once again escaping from.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: granny] #1045952
16th Oct 2017 11:04am
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One more small point which cold mean a lot. I vaguely remember Mrs May initially saying she was a supporter of leaving the EU, when Mr Cameron was about to call the referendum. She was interviewed later and said she was for remaining.

At the time I thought and still do think , that she'd been told to fall in line.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nnounces-intention-to-back-eu-membership

Theresa May has indicated that she is prepared to campaign in favour of Britain’s membership of the EU, boosting David Cameron hours after Brussels tabled proposals for a new settlement following months of talks with the UK.

The home secretary, at one time considered as a possible leading figure in the no campaign, described the proposals as the “basis for a deal”.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator] #1045956
16th Oct 2017 12:52pm
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thumbsup. Brace yourself.

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