Welcome to WikiWirral, sharing is what we do best.
Forum Stats
12456 Members
65 Forums
73760 Topics
997144 Posts
132 posts in the last 24hrs
Max Online: 7831 @ 8th Apr 2013 4:18pm
Who's Online - Click Me
72 registered (alan128, 19 invisible), 1355 Guests and 219 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


(Views 7days)This Weeks Most Read
Submarine Disaster 703
Jon venables 499
Fitting bathroom lights need help 480
Murderer walks free 299
Great Mystery Of Our Time 258
Likely Lad Rodney Dies 167
Charity fishing match 162
David Cassidy 161
Brexit bill 116
Telephone Caller Alert - they are NOT BT BROADBAND 73
New General Forums
Should family hugs be banned?
by cools
08:29 AM
Elixir of life.
by granny
10:15 PM
Great Mystery Of Our Time
by Spellbinder
21st Nov 2017 2:19pm
Brexit bill
by casper
20th Nov 2017 7:33pm
New Wirral History
Downloadable oldwirral pdfs
by derekdwc
9th Oct 2017 12:26pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
clipper yachts arriving for round the world race
Azamara,silouette and balmoral this mornig
Topic Replies
Bodytrain 2 in 1 Exercise bike and Cross trainer
by jonno40
7 minutes 59 seconds ago
Jon venables
by granny
51 minutes 38 seconds ago
What song are you listening to?
by snowhite
Today at 11:07 AM
Submarine Disaster
by RUDEBOX
Yesterday at 10:44 PM
Water Dispenser Cold Cool Machine Cooler
by markyport
Yesterday at 08:53 PM
3 X Eating / Writing Tables
by markyport
Yesterday at 08:24 PM
Murderer walks free
by fish5133
Yesterday at 07:42 PM
Extending dining table with six chairs
by kazaroo
Yesterday at 07:28 PM
Borat 😂
by _Ste_
Yesterday at 05:08 AM
November
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
Recent Posts : What's On ?
The Lanterns at Chester Zoo
by granny
16th Nov 2017 1:05pm
bonfire night
by snowhite
3rd Nov 2017 5:40pm
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1045840 - 15th Oct 2017 2:23pm Waning enthusiasm for brexit. ***
Excoriator Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 1156
Loc: wirral
John McDonnell's view, expressed today, that a 'no deal' brexit is not going to happen because there is sufficient cross party opposition in the commons to stop it is the latest indication that the abandonment of brexit is increasingly a realistic possibiity.

A few months back and this sort of statement would have caused an outcry. Now it can be expressed with little surprise from anyone.

I feel, as a remainer, more optimistic now than I have been for ages. One can feel the enthusiasm for brexit trickling away, as the squabbling tories cock it up, and more and more facts about what departure will actually mean become apparent to the public. We are increasingly seeing polls reflecting a movement away from brexit, so a decision from the commons to abandon brexit will be greeted not with outrage as it would have been a few months back, but with general relief.


Edited by Excoriator (15th Oct 2017 2:25pm)

Top
Google Ads
#1045851 - 15th Oct 2017 5:21pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10808
Loc: Birkenhead
Surely May will get kicked out first and whoever has the bottle to replace her will have a point to prove.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#1045853 - 15th Oct 2017 5:43pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
Excoriator Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 1156
Loc: wirral
Can you think of a Tory better than May?

She is rubbish but so are her colleagues. I can't see her replacement being any more capable.

One further point is that membership of the union has changed many tasks of governance into forms of working together or taken them over altogether. It is worth also asking whether our politicians are now capable of running a country. My feeling is that they are not. The thought of this country alone in the world run by the existing government, for instance, horrifies me!


Edited by Excoriator (15th Oct 2017 5:45pm)

Top
#1045855 - 15th Oct 2017 6:13pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
Moonstar Online   content

Forum Addict

Registered: 2nd Jul 2011
Posts: 1258
Loc: Wirral
Seems to me that those who have some modicum of power are intent on muddying the waters to increase the profitability to their own ends. We had a democratic vote ergo the powers that be must abide by that.

Why would you openly discuss negotiating points so that you could be shot down before presenting them? This is a high level game of cat and mouse - we don't want to be the mouse and therefore will not telegraph the next move.

Much ado is being made by those who have something to lose, like a nice comfy seat at the European Parliament or even heading that institution, and they are very, very noisy.

Top
#1045860 - 15th Oct 2017 7:24pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
fish5133 Online   content
Forum Master

Registered: 22nd Mar 2010
Posts: 3273
Loc: Heswallish
Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.

Top
#1045865 - 15th Oct 2017 7:59pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: fish5133]
snowhite Offline

Wiki Guide

Registered: 31st Jan 2014
Posts: 6457
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: fish5133
Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.
Nigel Farage,might start up his own political party[I thought he would have by now].I really hope he does because if we do not leave the EU.... say goodbye to the United Kingdom.
May is all for illegals and open borders she is just like another Merkel.


Edited by snowhite (15th Oct 2017 8:00pm)

Top
#1045867 - 15th Oct 2017 8:12pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: snowhite]
RUDEBOX Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19271
Loc: Here.
Originally Posted By: snowhite
Originally Posted By: fish5133
Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.
Nigel Farage,might start up his own political party[I thought he would have by now].I really hope he does because if we do not leave the EU.... say goodbye to the United Kingdom.
May is all for illegals and open borders she is just like another Merkel.


Who are these 'illegals' that you keep spouting about?

There is no such thing as an illegal or bogus asylum seeker. Under the 1951 Convention on Refugees, which the U.K has signed, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in the U.K, and to stay here, until there is a final decision on their application.
_________________________
Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn


Top
#1045879 - 15th Oct 2017 9:54pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15021
Loc: Wirral
Only the other day, Branson was going on about this. Stating that many who voted Brexit have died off and will die off soon !! He also said that in 5 years time more will have died off and he anticipates another referendum.
Now, apart from him having all the stats of how many people voted Brexit and how many of them have died ( obviously not such a secret ballot any longer) how very arrogant of him to think he is going on for eternity. He too could be dead in 5 yrs time, therefore his vote to remain didn't count for much either.
It is purely the empire builders, the MEP's and the politicians who look to their advancement in politics to higher levels,or to the UN or to Unicef ,or even to Peace Envoys (failed) etc. who are trying so desperately hard to disrupt the whole affair. Some of the old brigade who are Remoners , like Hestletine and Ken Clarke might also be dead in 5 yrs so they should shut up too.
It is a wonder who is likely to call another referendum anyway. Two and a bit political parties, the main two of which one committed on behalf of the electorate and the other not wanting to remain anyway(apparently now) after originally persuading the sheep in the party to follow their leader along with their trade union buddies.
Having looked at this topic on other social sites, I think the ball is most definitely still in the Brexit camp by a very long chalk. Only the 21-35's are blinded by all the hype and very childish propaganda that is being thrown around.
The unfortunate thing for them is, they were so disinterested in the referendum they all took themselves off to the music festivals, like Glastonbury, instead.


Edited by granny (15th Oct 2017 9:59pm)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

Top
#1045882 - 15th Oct 2017 10:50pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: RUDEBOX]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 3005
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: RUDEBOX
Originally Posted By: snowhite
Originally Posted By: fish5133
Certainly an orchestrated drip feed of anti brexit propaganda by those wanting to overturn the referendum...to give the impression of waning enthusiasm.. The only ones waning in enthusiasm are those who voted remain. The referendum was called original because the remainers thought they would win by a huge majority and thus put the thing to bed..Bit like Mays arrogance in calling an election. There is a majority of leavers who are just keeping their powder dry for the weasels who will try and overturn a democratic vote. Old Farage thought his job was done but we still might see him coming to the fore like a Churchill.
The very fact we cant get deals done with the EU shows how much they think they have our nation by the short and curlies.
Nigel Farage,might start up his own political party[I thought he would have by now].I really hope he does because if we do not leave the EU.... say goodbye to the United Kingdom.
May is all for illegals and open borders she is just like another Merkel.


Who are these 'illegals' that you keep spouting about?

There is no such thing as an illegal or bogus asylum seeker. Under the 1951 Convention on Refugees, which the U.K has signed, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in the U.K, and to stay here, until there is a final decision on their application.


Maybe snowhite is referring to this in the Sunday Times

"More than one million illegal immigrants are at large in Britain and most are unlikely ever to be removed, the former head of immigration enforcement told MPs yesterday................
Mr Wood, who left the department in 2015, told the home affairs select committee: “There’s probably over a million foreigners here illegally at the moment. There’s a large number, so no one could ever remove those, really. What there needs to be is a consequence. [It] needs to be seen that there is a risk that if you don’t abide by the immigration rules, and you overstay or you commit crimes, there is real risk of being removed.”

Statisticians have said that it is impossible to quantify the number of people in the country unlawfully. In an estimate 12 years ago, the Home Office put the total unauthorised migrant population in 2001 at 430,000. It has not published an estimate of illegal immigration since, though in 2009 the London School of Economics put the figure at between 373,000 and 719,000."

Top
#1045904 - 16th Oct 2017 9:03am Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
Excoriator Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 1156
Loc: wirral
Because someone is illegal doesn't make them unwelcome. I an many others are perfectly relaxed at the possible presence of a million immigrants here. It is only raging xenophobes and gullible folk who have been told by the right-wing press that gets upset by this.

And there are many perfectly legal people I'd be very happy to see chucked out. Including one N. Farage.

Top
#1045905 - 16th Oct 2017 9:08am Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
Excoriator Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 21st Jan 2010
Posts: 1156
Loc: wirral
My point, however, is that opinion is clearly on the change. Brexit is now a lot less popular than it once was, and is becoming even less so. Soon it will be toxic.

Top
#1045915 - 16th Oct 2017 9:38am Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10808
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: Excoriator
I an many others are perfectly relaxed at the possible presence of a million immigrants here. It is only raging xenophobes and gullible folk who have been told by the right-wing press that gets upset by this.


And people that want jobs, small businesses that are being put out of business, people that think the law should be upheld and people that are getting robbed (and even killed) by illegals that need money but can't receive benefits.

Originally Posted By: Excoriator
My point, however, is that opinion is clearly on the change. Brexit is now a lot less popular than it once was, and is becoming even less so. Soon it will be toxic.


That is the trouble-stirring media saying that which you normally discard? How many leavers do you know that have changed their mind, the few I know have not changed their mind about the principal of Brexit, its the worry about what sort of trashy deal May is going to sign up to.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

Top
#1045949 - 16th Oct 2017 11:44am Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: diggingdeeper]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15021
Loc: Wirral

Put our money on the simple fact that if UK offered £100 billion , all would be a joy for the EU .

They need our money ,particularly with the pathetic promise of another 8 countries joining the EU, and they are all poor countries, offering nothing. No work, no money, no industry apart from a couple of countries that still have bears dancing on chains ! thumbsdown We provide for them at the expense of our young people. The more countries there are as member states, the less our own country will benefit. It's all very well for those who did the education, education, education thing, there are those who could never manage it, and if you take the concept of European countries, our grand kids could well be the next beggers of the future as they are in so many other countries (it's getting that way here now too. Mostly foreigners bringing their culture with them ). All it ends up with is Germany gaining more, as they always do from devious moves of buying out businesses and institutions. UK would be available to offer employment and benefits to EU migrants , plus a percentage of our finances, and more of our industries being watered down or sold off, in a bid to provide the new member states with a possible pathway of supporting themselves through the industries we once held dear.
All it needs is Germany to take the Bank of England and the agricultural land. Farming; one in 5 recipients of subsidies are billionaires . We had subsidies for farmers long before we joined the EU, but eventually when sovereignty of the UK had gone there would be nothing to stop the EU from taking control of land too, and saving them trillions in subsidies. Just like the dreadful outbreak of foot and mouth as a run up to 11 agricultural/farming countries joining the EU. If there was ever a fix in destroying an industry, that was it ! Then the wind machines were erected on the silent lands as compensation to some farmers.

Austerity has been imposed on ALL EU member countries , maybe some don't know that, but it would result in the Governments receiving less in return from the EU pot at times of austerity. Our Governments are controlled by Brussels, but in the not too distant future, we will be able to see the light again even if it is a struggle for a while. We are proud and so we should be, with eternal thanks to our relatives who fought in the two world wars defending us from the things we are once again escaping from.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

Top
#1045952 - 16th Oct 2017 12:04pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15021
Loc: Wirral


One more small point which cold mean a lot. I vaguely remember Mrs May initially saying she was a supporter of leaving the EU, when Mr Cameron was about to call the referendum. She was interviewed later and said she was for remaining.

At the time I thought and still do think , that she'd been told to fall in line.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...k-eu-membership

Theresa May has indicated that she is prepared to campaign in favour of Britain’s membership of the EU, boosting David Cameron hours after Brussels tabled proposals for a new settlement following months of talks with the UK.

The home secretary, at one time considered as a possible leading figure in the no campaign, described the proposals as the “basis for a deal”.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

Top
#1045956 - 16th Oct 2017 1:52pm Re: Waning enthusiasm for brexit. [Re: Excoriator]
cools Offline
Forum Addict

Registered: 16th Aug 2013
Posts: 2128
Loc: Wirral
thumbsup. Brace yourself.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Mod 
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Jon venables
by Dilly
Yesterday at 07:23 AM
Borat 😂
by _Ste_
Yesterday at 05:08 AM
Murderer walks free
by _Ste_
22nd Nov 2017 2:29pm
David Cassidy
by cools
22nd Nov 2017 9:17am
Likely Lad Rodney Dies
by fish5133
21st Nov 2017 7:43pm
For Sale & Free
3 X Eating / Writing Tables
by markyport
Yesterday at 08:24 PM
Bodytrain 2 in 1 Exercise bike and Cross trainer
by jonno40
Yesterday at 12:17 PM
Wheelbarrow wanted
by zigzagwanderer
22nd Nov 2017 2:03pm
Lenovo H30-50 Slim Line Fast PC
by markyport
22nd Nov 2017 12:50pm
Extending dining table with six chairs
by kazaroo
20th Nov 2017 4:46pm
Featured Member
Registered: 4th Nov 2011
Posts: 1893
Newest Members
gray153, Ria63, Stephen1953, negusmat, wagonwheel82
12456 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
locomotive (75)
New Wirral Info
Fitting bathroom lights need help
by yr20405
17th Nov 2017 11:29pm
Games for children
by granny
17th Nov 2017 1:35am
Bath Lifts
by locomotive
16th Nov 2017 6:22pm
The Lanterns at Chester Zoo
by granny
16th Nov 2017 1:05pm
Travelling Bus and Train Which Tickets?
by fish5133
15th Nov 2017 5:31pm
News : New Topics
Jon venables
by Dilly
Yesterday at 07:23 AM
Murderer walks free
by _Ste_
22nd Nov 2017 2:29pm
David Cassidy
by cools
22nd Nov 2017 9:17am
Submarine Disaster
by diggingdeeper
20th Nov 2017 5:46pm
Anyone read this ?
by venice
16th Nov 2017 3:22pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Borat 😂
by _Ste_
Yesterday at 05:08 AM
Likely Lad Rodney Dies
by fish5133
21st Nov 2017 7:43pm
Charity fishing match
by paul110180
17th Nov 2017 9:29pm
Are there any doctors or nurses on here.
by granny
16th Nov 2017 11:52pm
Taltalk Broadband Dying
by diggingdeeper
15th Nov 2017 3:40am
(Views 24hrs)Trending Newest Topics
Elixir of life. 40
Should family hugs be banned? 24
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Fri 7:55am
Sunset Fri 4:03pm
Local Time Fri 12:41pm
WikiWirral Can . . . .