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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: Dilly]
#1041134
7th Jul 2017 8:48am
7th Jul 2017 8:48am
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672 Wirral
granny
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
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Impossible to make a judgement on this. Heart breaking it is and little Charlie is 10 months old now, they have grown to love him and feel his pain,so an even harder decision . After the Judges decision the parents only asked for him to be able to go home, and I don't understand why that was denied. If he had been allowed home, it could have saved this now continuing agony.
These distraught parents needed him to be at home if only for a short time, just to do all the little things so that their natural parental dreams can be realised, and act as a cushion to the final blow.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: Dilly]
#1041140
7th Jul 2017 9:07am
7th Jul 2017 9:07am
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672 Wirral
granny
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
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As an after thought, I'm not sure I can agree with an experimental drug from USA. Nobody would know what the side effects might be and Charlie would be unable to show any discomfort, feeling of sickness etc. Can we imagine feeling absolutely shit and not being able to even move or let anyone know ?
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: Dilly]
#1041152
7th Jul 2017 12:15pm
7th Jul 2017 12:15pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,912 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,912
Birkenhead
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As soon as the UK medical profession said there is no hope for Charlie, the experimental drug should have been permitted provided it had the blessing of the parents - why not? It might have helped Charlie and most certainly would have helped research for other kids.
I'm not saying that every terminally ill baby should be used as a guinea pig but if that is the will of the parents and they get no financial benefit from the use of the drug and there is evidence that it may help I'd consider it immoral not to allow the use of that drug even its its know their may be fatal consequences.
I still agree with euthanasia to prevent suffering though, unfortunately in cases like this it is very difficult to decide who should have the ultimate say. Why animals have more rights in this aspect than humans is crazy.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: Dilly]
#1041443
15th Jul 2017 11:43am
15th Jul 2017 11:43am
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621 Wirral
venice

Forum Guardian
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Forum Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
Wirral
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Quote DD "I'm not saying that every terminally ill Baby should be used as a guinea pig but if that is the will of the parents and they get no financial benefit from the use of the drug and there is evidence that it may help I'd consider it immoral not to allow the use of that drug even its its know their may be fatal consequences."
Immoral? Mmm, wouldnt have put it that strongly . Think I might be thinking more along the lines of
a) (Setting aside the unborn here as a separate issue) Our law doesnt even allow parents to correct our children by smacking - yet here we are thinking about granting parents to have permission for a small child to be used like a vivisection animal , in an untried radical experiment when results and side effects are unknown.
b) There was a woman interviewed the other day whose child had similar problems to Charlie and she agreed to experimental treatment. The child died anyway, but that is not what haunts her, she wishes she could turn the clock back and say NO to the treatment because it actually caused the child to suffer more than had been anticipated , and die in pain and distress. She remains anguished and guilt ridden .
c) Its thought that at best ,in Charlie's case, experimenal treatment MIGHT just make Charlie survive and gain a bit more awareness . What if it achieves that ?- the poor little guy has no say , but to be condemned to live a life wholly dependant on others. He would still be blind, deaf, immobile , still have a hugely damaged brain -- but hey - he'd be alive and a bit more aware !!!!
This aspect doesnt seem to have been mentioned by the authorities , and I think its massively important . Keeping Charlie alive might be the parents sole aim now , but I fearif he survives, they may be devasted at the emotional cost later when they see the lack of quality this little figure of humanity will have as he grows up - thanks to their decision. We cant know how a deaf ,speechless, blind, immobile ,massively brain damaged child will feel with his gifted awareness - but is it fair to be able to gamble and decide for someone else with all those severe disabilities, that what he will or wont experience is ok ?
Not exactly sure myself (yet again) what is right here - harking back to our other discussion about extending life until maybe a cure comes along - how can we be sure that in 10 years a new sight and hearing technology and brain cell re-activation operation wont come along which could enrich Charlie's life sufficiently to enable him to have some enjoyment and quality?
Truly an enormous decision in no way straightforward. Feel desperately sorry for the poor parents as well as little Charlie.
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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: Dilly]
#1041454
15th Jul 2017 2:43pm
15th Jul 2017 2:43pm
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,912 Birkenhead
diggingdeeper
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,912
Birkenhead
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My basic take on it is .... If I was ether on my last legs or about to become incapacitated to an extremely low quality of life and there was an experimental or even low probability treatment available I'd think "why the hell not?". There would be even more re-assurance if I was on life support that could be switched off.
I can see only possible benefits for me or others, I can't see anything negative in that decision.
Whether its me, someone else or a baby I can't see how that changes anything.
I don't agree with the NHS funding treatment to extend life in the hope that a new treatment comes along, that argument has never ending consequences.
The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020
Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton
We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: Dilly]
#1041832
25th Jul 2017 5:38pm
25th Jul 2017 5:38pm
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672 Wirral
granny
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,672
Wirral
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Even now, after all this couple have suffered there is still a disagreement as to whether or not little Charlie can go home for such brief period of time.
Heart breaking !
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: fish5133]
#1041845
26th Jul 2017 6:46am
26th Jul 2017 6:46am
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 159 Home Counties
Spellbinder
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 159
Home Counties
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Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor baby home to die. Evidence please.
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Re: Baby Charlie
[Re: Spellbinder]
#1041849
26th Jul 2017 8:36am
26th Jul 2017 8:36am
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044 Heswallish
fish5133
Forum Guardian
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Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Heswallish
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Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor baby home to die. Evidence please. Deads dead no matter where it happens doesnt require evidence other than a walk around any cemetery
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