WikiWirral is where great friendships are made.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,000,579
Topics73,994
Members12,514
Forums65
Posts in last 24hrs30
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
78 registered members (alan128, 15 invisible), 1,412 guests, and214 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
397 smart tv
New General Forums
Been around, but I like it.
by venice. 22nd Jan 2018 12:40pm
Rubbish calls
by venice. 22nd Jan 2018 11:58am
Xmas just gome now Easter
by keef666. 20th Jan 2018 2:49pm
Happy Birthday
by RUDEBOX. 18th Jan 2018 12:13am
New Wirral History
Ellesmere Port town centre redevelopment?
by yoller. 5th Jan 2018 5:12pm
Lunts Cake Factory on Hoylake Rd.
by jeffappleyard. 22nd Dec 2017 8:30pm
Brook St Birkenhead
by chris7777. 27th Jun 2014 11:46am
Wirral History. 1860 - 1960...
by johnsonjl. 12th Aug 2012 10:21pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
War memorial, Flaybrick Cemetery, today
clipper yachts arriving for round the world race
Topic Replies
Believed to be in Liverpool
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jan 2018 2:34am
What is happening next to Central Library?
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jan 2018 12:33am
Major Electrical Disaster - Birkenhead
by fish5133. 23rd Jan 2018 12:14am
Sliding mirrored wardrobe doors
by spgb1a. 22nd Jan 2018 12:17pm
Puppy Incubator
by rocks. 22nd Jan 2018 9:48am
Knitted blankets for charities?
by Greenwood. 22nd Jan 2018 8:50am
My Account
by Mark. 21st Jan 2018 8:34pm
New Forums Software
by Mark. 21st Jan 2018 8:08pm
Follow Lists
by Mark. 21st Jan 2018 7:38pm
January
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
British Ironworks Centre Oswestry
by Greenwood. 19th Jan 2018 9:23am
Local History Fair 2018
by Greenwood. 19th Jan 2018 9:16am
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Baby Charlie #1041132
7th Jul 2017 8:15am
7th Jul 2017 8:15am
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,315
wallasey
Dilly Offline OP

Wiki Veteran
Dilly  Offline OP

Wiki Veteran
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,315
wallasey
Gard. This sad case of the poor child and his parents is heartbreaking. But our medical profession and all the courts have said his life support should now be switched off. But now the Pope and Donald Trump are trying to step in. Do you think they are right to be interfering? A terrible situation for the parents who seem to want as anyone would any glimmer of hope. So sad.

Google Ads
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041134
7th Jul 2017 8:48am
7th Jul 2017 8:48am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,238
Wirral
granny Offline

Wiki Master
granny  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,238
Wirral

Impossible to make a judgement on this. Heart breaking it is and little Charlie is 10 months old now, they have grown to love him and feel his pain,so an even harder decision .

After the Judges decision the parents only asked for him to be able to go home, and I don't understand why that was denied. If he had been allowed home, it could have saved this now continuing agony.

These distraught parents needed him to be at home if only for a short time, just to do all the little things so that their natural parental dreams can be realised, and act as a cushion to the final blow.





Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041140
7th Jul 2017 9:07am
7th Jul 2017 9:07am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,238
Wirral
granny Offline

Wiki Master
granny  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,238
Wirral

As an after thought, I'm not sure I can agree with an experimental drug from USA. Nobody would know what the side effects might be and Charlie would be unable to show any discomfort, feeling of sickness etc. Can we imagine feeling absolutely shit and not being able to even move or let anyone know ?



Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041141
7th Jul 2017 9:19am
7th Jul 2017 9:19am
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,186
Wirral
C
cools Offline
Forum Addict
cools  Offline
Forum Addict
C
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,186
Wirral
This is very sad and I can't imagine what his parents are going through. Sometimes I think the marvel of medical science these days is somewhat of a curse in cases like this. It's easy for me to say not being involved and I know I would be the same as them hoping for a miracle but years ago this little one would have died almost at birth and tragic as that is he would have been spared the suffering. I don't think the Pope or Trump should interfere surely the doctors know best. Very sad indeed.

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041152
7th Jul 2017 12:15pm
7th Jul 2017 12:15pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,113
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,113
Birkenhead
As soon as the UK medical profession said there is no hope for Charlie, the experimental drug should have been permitted provided it had the blessing of the parents - why not? It might have helped Charlie and most certainly would have helped research for other kids.

I'm not saying that every terminally ill Baby should be used as a guinea pig but if that is the will of the parents and they get no financial benefit from the use of the drug and there is evidence that it may help I'd consider it immoral not to allow the use of that drug even its its know their may be fatal consequences.

I still agree with euthanasia to prevent suffering though, unfortunately in cases like this it is very difficult to decide who should have the ultimate say. Why animals have more rights in this aspect than humans is crazy.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041438
15th Jul 2017 9:53am
15th Jul 2017 9:53am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,440
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,440
Heswallish
If a man or more often a woman can decide to terminate the life of their unloved and unborn child with the help and legal backing of the country why shouldn't a couple try and do everything and explore all avenues to try and give their born and loved child a chance no matter how small.
(sorry if offended anyone ..just written in a moment of anger)

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041443
15th Jul 2017 11:43am
15th Jul 2017 11:43am
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,144
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Master
venice  Offline

Forum Master
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,144
Wirral
Quote DD
"I'm not saying that every terminally ill Baby should be used as a guinea pig but if that is the will of the parents and they get no financial benefit from the use of the drug and there is evidence that it may help I'd consider it immoral not to allow the use of that drug even its its know their may be fatal consequences."

Immoral? Mmm, wouldnt have put it that strongly . Think I might be thinking more along the lines of

a) (Setting aside the unborn here as a separate issue) Our law doesnt even allow parents to correct our children by smacking - yet here we are thinking about granting parents to have permission for a small child to be used like a vivisection animal , in an untried radical experiment when results and side effects are unknown.

b) There was a woman interviewed the other day whose child had similar problems to Charlie and she agreed to experimental treatment. The child died anyway, but that is not what haunts her, she wishes she could turn the clock back and say NO to the treatment because it actually caused the child to suffer more than had been anticipated , and die in pain and distress. She remains anguished and guilt ridden .

c) Its thought that at best ,in Charlie's case, experimenal treatment MIGHT just make Charlie survive and gain a bit more awareness . What if it achieves that ?- the poor little guy has no say , but to be condemned to live a life wholly dependant on others. He would still be blind, deaf, immobile , still have a hugely damaged brain -- but hey - he'd be alive and a bit more aware !!!!

This aspect doesnt seem to have been mentioned by the authorities , and I think its massively important . Keeping Charlie alive might be the parents sole aim now , but I fearif he survives, they may be devasted at the emotional cost later when they see the lack of quality this little figure of humanity will have as he grows up - thanks to their decision. We cant know how a deaf ,speechless, blind, immobile ,massively brain damaged child will feel with his gifted awareness - but is it fair to be able to gamble and decide for someone else with all those severe disabilities, that what he will or wont experience is ok ?

Not exactly sure myself (yet again) what is right here - harking back to our other discussion about extending life until maybe a cure comes along - how can we be sure that in 10 years a new sight and hearing technology and brain cell re-activation operation wont come along which could enrich Charlie's life sufficiently to enable him to have some enjoyment and quality?

Truly an enormous decision in no way straightforward. Feel desperately sorry for the poor parents as well as little Charlie.


Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041454
15th Jul 2017 2:43pm
15th Jul 2017 2:43pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,113
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,113
Birkenhead
My basic take on it is .... If I was ether on my last legs or about to become incapacitated to an extremely low quality of life and there was an experimental or even low probability treatment available I'd think "why the hell not?". There would be even more re-assurance if I was on life support that could be switched off.

I can see only possible benefits for me or others, I can't see anything negative in that decision.

Whether its me, someone else or a Baby I can't see how that changes anything.

I don't agree with the NHS funding treatment to extend life in the hope that a new treatment comes along, that argument has never ending consequences.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041832
25th Jul 2017 5:38pm
25th Jul 2017 5:38pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,238
Wirral
granny Offline

Wiki Master
granny  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,238
Wirral


Even now, after all this couple have suffered there is still a disagreement as to whether or not little Charlie can go home for such brief period of time.

Heart breaking !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: granny] #1041833
25th Jul 2017 6:16pm
25th Jul 2017 6:16pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,478
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,478
wallasey
As heartbreaking as it is surely to move the poor little mite, would cause him more distress, the poor little soul has been a football between the parents and the courts, no one can say what they would do given such a situation, but the thought must be to give him his last days in comfort and where he can be cared for with the facility to ease his discomfort, his parents can be with him, so very sad for all concerned.

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: casper] #1041835
25th Jul 2017 7:36pm
25th Jul 2017 7:36pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,440
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,440
Heswallish
The poor little kid only got days to live and the Hospital and courts still denying his parents their final wish. Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor Baby home to die. I bet the parents never knew the hassle they would have to go through when they first took him into hospital for help.



Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041836
25th Jul 2017 7:38pm
25th Jul 2017 7:38pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,315
wallasey
Dilly Offline OP

Wiki Veteran
Dilly  Offline OP

Wiki Veteran
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,315
wallasey
Little Charlie can now be allowed to slip away peacefully and with all the love and care to make it as easy as possible. Let's now hope the media can now give his family a little peace to deal with what they have to face in the coming days and weeks.

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: fish5133] #1041845
26th Jul 2017 6:46am
26th Jul 2017 6:46am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 159
Home Counties
S
Spellbinder Offline
Enthusiast
Spellbinder  Offline
Enthusiast
S
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 159
Home Counties
Originally Posted by fish5133
Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor baby home to die.



Evidence please.


Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Spellbinder] #1041849
26th Jul 2017 8:36am
26th Jul 2017 8:36am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,440
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Online content
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Online Content
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,440
Heswallish
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
Originally Posted by fish5133
Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor baby home to die.



Evidence please.



Deads dead no matter where it happens doesnt require evidence other than a walk around any cemetery

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: fish5133] #1041853
26th Jul 2017 9:52am
26th Jul 2017 9:52am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,478
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,478
wallasey
There is no evidence either way to suggest that moving him would cause discomfort, however who must make that decision? those qualified to do so? or the parents? in all honesty would the parents wish him to suffer just to take him home, with the very best of intentions it would be a selfless act to spare him what might be a trauma for the poor little wee one.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Believed to be in Liverpool
by granny. 23rd Jan 2018 2:25am
My Account
by Mark. 21st Jan 2018 8:34pm
Follow Lists
by Mark. 21st Jan 2018 3:48pm
Knitted blankets for charities?
by Greenwood. 21st Jan 2018 3:30pm
RIP Jim Rodford (Zombies/Kinks)
by diggingdeeper. 21st Jan 2018 10:52am
For Sale & Free
Vax hoover
by madrob. 21st Jan 2018 3:06pm
Sliding mirrored wardrobe doors
by spgb1a. 21st Jan 2018 12:02pm
Puppy Incubator
by rocks. 20th Jan 2018 8:43pm
Barracuda Boy's 24 X Jibe Alloy 18-speed Cycle
by ynwa96. 20th Jan 2018 3:01pm
Mirror cam. Car camera fits on mirror.
by spider. 20th Jan 2018 1:13pm
Member Spotlight
Norton
Norton
Wallasey
Posts: 648
Joined: September 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
walter888, hangman, Stephboyd, Lillibet57, OzScouser
12514 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Knitted blankets for charities?
by Greenwood. 21st Jan 2018 3:30pm
What is happening next to Central Library?
by Littlebear. 19th Jan 2018 11:46pm
Local History Fair 2018
by RUDEBOX. 18th Jan 2018 7:20pm
British Ironworks Centre Oswestry
by fish5133. 14th Jan 2018 11:53pm
Tranmere Rovers carbooty
by assassin. 13th Jan 2018 3:21pm
News : New Topics
Major Electrical Disaster - Birkenhead
by diggingdeeper. 18th Jan 2018 1:12pm
RIP Bella Emberg
by Norton. 13th Jan 2018 4:40pm
4 bridges completion delay
by pacef8. 11th Jan 2018 7:00pm
Mount pleasant road, wallasey
by Ardneil. 11th Jan 2018 10:45am
Brexit payment
by venice. 10th Jan 2018 2:56pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Believed to be in Liverpool
by granny. 23rd Jan 2018 2:25am
RIP Jim Rodford (Zombies/Kinks)
by diggingdeeper. 21st Jan 2018 10:52am
Help with Humax
by muzzy2. 18th Jan 2018 10:02am
smart tv
by eggandchips. 17th Jan 2018 2:43pm
Pets Meds Online
by venice. 16th Jan 2018 11:54am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Tue 8:10am
Sunset Tue 4:38pm
Local Time Tue 3:35am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1