WikiWirral Online with you since 2003, fantastic.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,019,378
Topics75,085
Members13,035
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs8
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
44 registered members (alan128, 6 invisible), 1,297 guests, and413 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
111 iPad mini
65 heat
New General Forums
The Ofsted Results Fiddle
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jul 2019 5:49pm
When will we learn
by casper. 20th Jul 2019 8:14pm
HMS Li WO
by casper. 18th Jul 2019 7:39pm
EU Successes
by diggingdeeper. 11th Jul 2019 3:39pm
New Wirral History
Unidentified Dredgers
by locomotive. 23rd Jun 2019 8:18pm
Cheshire Tithe Maps Online
by yoller. 21st Jun 2019 11:42am
721 E.S.W.A club 54-56 Park Road South Birkenhead
by derekdwc. 1st Jul 2012 10:33am
ABC Cinema
by pablo42. 3rd Apr 2012 9:21am
Jones's milk bar
by Jess53. 19th Jun 2011 1:50pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
WW1 Monument, Birkenhead
Topic Replies
heat
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jul 2019 7:18pm
Black 2008 Vauxhall Meriva - MOT Failure
by anniebo28. 23rd Jul 2019 6:10pm
Boris prime minister
by casper. 23rd Jul 2019 1:33pm
Wirral Crime Yesterday
by svenlock68. 22nd Jul 2019 10:56am
What song are you listening to?
by granny. 21st Jul 2019 11:23pm
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:07pm
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:03pm
iPad mini
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 9:13pm
Someone yelling - Rock Lane West, Rock Ferry
by Littlebear. 21st Jul 2019 5:13pm
July
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Cheshire Live Steamers
by muzzy2. 18th Jul 2019 9:28am
Death Cafe Wirral - this time at Stollies
by martinharris. 28th Jun 2019 3:43pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Baby Charlie #1041132
7th Jul 2017 8:15am
7th Jul 2017 8:15am
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,798
wallasey
Dilly Online shifty OP

Wiki Veteran
Dilly  Online Shifty OP

Wiki Veteran
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,798
wallasey
Gard. This sad case of the poor child and his parents is heartbreaking. But our medical profession and all the courts have said his life support should now be switched off. But now the Pope and Donald Trump are trying to step in. Do you think they are right to be interfering? A terrible situation for the parents who seem to want as anyone would any glimmer of hope. So sad.

Google Ads
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041134
7th Jul 2017 8:48am
7th Jul 2017 8:48am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,420
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,420
Wirral

Impossible to make a judgement on this. Heart breaking it is and little Charlie is 10 months old now, they have grown to love him and feel his pain,so an even harder decision .

After the Judges decision the parents only asked for him to be able to go home, and I don't understand why that was denied. If he had been allowed home, it could have saved this now continuing agony.

These distraught parents needed him to be at home if only for a short time, just to do all the little things so that their natural parental dreams can be realised, and act as a cushion to the final blow.





Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041140
7th Jul 2017 9:07am
7th Jul 2017 9:07am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,420
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,420
Wirral

As an after thought, I'm not sure I can agree with an experimental drug from USA. Nobody would know what the side effects might be and Charlie would be unable to show any discomfort, feeling of sickness etc. Can we imagine feeling absolutely shit and not being able to even move or let anyone know ?



Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041141
7th Jul 2017 9:19am
7th Jul 2017 9:19am
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,532
Wirral
C
cools Offline
Forum Master
cools  Offline
Forum Master
C
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,532
Wirral
This is very sad and I can't imagine what his parents are going through. Sometimes I think the marvel of medical science these days is somewhat of a curse in cases like this. It's easy for me to say not being involved and I know I would be the same as them hoping for a miracle but years ago this little one would have died almost at birth and tragic as that is he would have been spared the suffering. I don't think the Pope or Trump should interfere surely the doctors know best. Very sad indeed.

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041152
7th Jul 2017 12:15pm
7th Jul 2017 12:15pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,667
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,667
Birkenhead
As soon as the UK medical profession said there is no hope for Charlie, the experimental drug should have been permitted provided it had the blessing of the parents - why not? It might have helped Charlie and most certainly would have helped research for other kids.

I'm not saying that every terminally ill baby should be used as a guinea pig but if that is the will of the parents and they get no financial benefit from the use of the drug and there is evidence that it may help I'd consider it immoral not to allow the use of that drug even its its know their may be fatal consequences.

I still agree with euthanasia to prevent suffering though, unfortunately in cases like this it is very difficult to decide who should have the ultimate say. Why animals have more rights in this aspect than humans is crazy.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041438
15th Jul 2017 9:53am
15th Jul 2017 9:53am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
If a man or more often a woman can decide to terminate the life of their unloved and unborn child with the help and legal backing of the country why shouldn't a couple try and do everything and explore all avenues to try and give their born and loved child a chance no matter how small.
(sorry if offended anyone ..just written in a moment of anger)

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041443
15th Jul 2017 11:43am
15th Jul 2017 11:43am
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,616
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,616
Wirral
Quote DD
"I'm not saying that every terminally ill Baby should be used as a guinea pig but if that is the will of the parents and they get no financial benefit from the use of the drug and there is evidence that it may help I'd consider it immoral not to allow the use of that drug even its its know their may be fatal consequences."

Immoral? Mmm, wouldnt have put it that strongly . Think I might be thinking more along the lines of

a) (Setting aside the unborn here as a separate issue) Our law doesnt even allow parents to correct our children by smacking - yet here we are thinking about granting parents to have permission for a small child to be used like a vivisection animal , in an untried radical experiment when results and side effects are unknown.

b) There was a woman interviewed the other day whose child had similar problems to Charlie and she agreed to experimental treatment. The child died anyway, but that is not what haunts her, she wishes she could turn the clock back and say NO to the treatment because it actually caused the child to suffer more than had been anticipated , and die in pain and distress. She remains anguished and guilt ridden .

c) Its thought that at best ,in Charlie's case, experimenal treatment MIGHT just make Charlie survive and gain a bit more awareness . What if it achieves that ?- the poor little guy has no say , but to be condemned to live a life wholly dependant on others. He would still be blind, deaf, immobile , still have a hugely damaged brain -- but hey - he'd be alive and a bit more aware !!!!

This aspect doesnt seem to have been mentioned by the authorities , and I think its massively important . Keeping Charlie alive might be the parents sole aim now , but I fearif he survives, they may be devasted at the emotional cost later when they see the lack of quality this little figure of humanity will have as he grows up - thanks to their decision. We cant know how a deaf ,speechless, blind, immobile ,massively brain damaged child will feel with his gifted awareness - but is it fair to be able to gamble and decide for someone else with all those severe disabilities, that what he will or wont experience is ok ?

Not exactly sure myself (yet again) what is right here - harking back to our other discussion about extending life until maybe a cure comes along - how can we be sure that in 10 years a new sight and hearing technology and brain cell re-activation operation wont come along which could enrich Charlie's life sufficiently to enable him to have some enjoyment and quality?

Truly an enormous decision in no way straightforward. Feel desperately sorry for the poor parents as well as little Charlie.


Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041454
15th Jul 2017 2:43pm
15th Jul 2017 2:43pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,667
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,667
Birkenhead
My basic take on it is .... If I was ether on my last legs or about to become incapacitated to an extremely low quality of life and there was an experimental or even low probability treatment available I'd think "why the hell not?". There would be even more re-assurance if I was on life support that could be switched off.

I can see only possible benefits for me or others, I can't see anything negative in that decision.

Whether its me, someone else or a baby I can't see how that changes anything.

I don't agree with the NHS funding treatment to extend life in the hope that a new treatment comes along, that argument has never ending consequences.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041832
25th Jul 2017 5:38pm
25th Jul 2017 5:38pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,420
Wirral
granny Offline
Wiki Master
granny  Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 16,420
Wirral


Even now, after all this couple have suffered there is still a disagreement as to whether or not little Charlie can go home for such brief period of time.

Heart breaking !


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Baby Charlie [Re: granny] #1041833
25th Jul 2017 6:16pm
25th Jul 2017 6:16pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,814
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,814
wallasey
As heartbreaking as it is surely to move the poor little mite, would cause him more distress, the poor little soul has been a football between the parents and the courts, no one can say what they would do given such a situation, but the thought must be to give him his last days in comfort and where he can be cared for with the facility to ease his discomfort, his parents can be with him, so very sad for all concerned.

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: casper] #1041835
25th Jul 2017 7:36pm
25th Jul 2017 7:36pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
The poor little kid only got days to live and the Hospital and courts still denying his parents their final wish. Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor baby home to die. I bet the parents never knew the hassle they would have to go through when they first took him into hospital for help.



Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Dilly] #1041836
25th Jul 2017 7:38pm
25th Jul 2017 7:38pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,798
wallasey
Dilly Online shifty OP

Wiki Veteran
Dilly  Online Shifty OP

Wiki Veteran
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,798
wallasey
Little Charlie can now be allowed to slip away peacefully and with all the love and care to make it as easy as possible. Let's now hope the media can now give his family a little peace to deal with what they have to face in the coming days and weeks.

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: fish5133] #1041845
26th Jul 2017 6:46am
26th Jul 2017 6:46am
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 159
Home Counties
S
Spellbinder Offline
Enthusiast
Spellbinder  Offline
Enthusiast
S
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 159
Home Counties
Originally Posted by fish5133
Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor baby home to die.



Evidence please.


Re: Baby Charlie [Re: Spellbinder] #1041849
26th Jul 2017 8:36am
26th Jul 2017 8:36am
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,956
Heswallish
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
Originally Posted by fish5133
Not going to make an ounce of difference to let the poor baby home to die.



Evidence please.



Deads dead no matter where it happens doesnt require evidence other than a walk around any cemetery

Re: Baby Charlie [Re: fish5133] #1041853
26th Jul 2017 9:52am
26th Jul 2017 9:52am
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,814
wallasey
C
casper Online content
Forum Addict
casper  Online Content
Forum Addict
C
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,814
wallasey
There is no evidence either way to suggest that moving him would cause discomfort, however who must make that decision? those qualified to do so? or the parents? in all honesty would the parents wish him to suffer just to take him home, with the very best of intentions it would be a selfless act to spare him what might be a trauma for the poor little wee one.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Boris prime minister
by cools. 23rd Jul 2019 12:51pm
heat
by lincle. 23rd Jul 2019 11:18am
Someone yelling - Rock Lane West, Rock Ferry
by Littlebear. 21st Jul 2019 5:13pm
iPad mini
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 9:18am
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 16th Jul 2019 10:24pm
For Sale & Free
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:07pm
Brown Leather Suite - Sofa and 2 Recliners
by frankiecat. 21st Jul 2019 10:03pm
4 in 1 trike
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 11:50am
free Items to go before scrapman commoth
by gerry1. 15th Jul 2019 3:17pm
B&O MX7000 25”
by _Ste_. 14th Jul 2019 1:17am
Member Spotlight
Tatey
Tatey
New Brighton
Posts: 1,433
Joined: April 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Stewey, IanSudo64, jimlowe, Blinkbonny, Carl63
13035 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Someone yelling - Rock Lane West, Rock Ferry
by Littlebear. 21st Jul 2019 5:13pm
iPad mini
by lincle. 21st Jul 2019 9:18am
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 16th Jul 2019 10:24pm
Abandoned Buildings around Wirral
by sabian8989. 8th Jul 2019 11:48pm
Accessing Marine Lake, New Brighton
by Aryia. 30th Jun 2019 8:49pm
News : New Topics
Boris prime minister
by cools. 23rd Jul 2019 12:51pm
heat
by lincle. 23rd Jul 2019 11:18am
Set Your Clocks
by diggingdeeper. 15th Jul 2019 11:43pm
Wirral Crime Yesterday
by diggingdeeper. 13th Jul 2019 4:05pm
Saudi arms sales
by granny. 20th Jun 2019 11:04am
New Enthusiast Forums
Body repairs
by kamikazi. 16th Jul 2019 10:09am
Ah, how sad.
by venice. 9th Jul 2019 6:43pm
Best Dog Walking Parks ?
by Fenix. 25th Jun 2019 9:42am
windows 10
by steviebyday. 21st Jun 2019 5:08pm
Chernobyl
by Softy_Southerner. 4th Jun 2019 11:40am
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
65 heat
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Tue 5:14am
Sunset Tue 9:23pm
Local Time Tue 7:36pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1