Welcome to WikiWirral, sharing is what we do best.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,352
Posts1,033,281
Members14,560
Most Online16,551
Feb 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
8 members (3 invisible), 8,693 guests, and 424 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,788
_Ste_ 16,345
Newest Members
Kalena1962, rattus, Lisrush, Emotecreative, ArranGirl13
14,560 Registered Users
New General Forums
New Wirral History
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
D.I.Y. / Building Shop
by mharford91 - 3rd Mar 2024 8:53pm
1970's Murder in Central Park, Wallasey
by cutespam - 4th Aug 2018 10:28am
Old Hall in Higher Bebington
by Rhoobarb - 25th May 2010 5:55pm
Oleo Works
by Ducko - 14th May 2008 3:09pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
granny 14
casper 13
bri445 4
Topic Replies
What song are you listening to?
by diggingdeeper - 28th Mar 2024 6:06pm
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by diggingdeeper - 27th Mar 2024 3:50pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by diggingdeeper - 27th Mar 2024 2:33am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 26th Mar 2024 5:43pm
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by diggingdeeper - 26th Mar 2024 3:09am
Old Hall in Higher Bebington
by diggingdeeper - 24th Mar 2024 5:58pm
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Wisper electric bike. 36v .
by Dilly - 21st Mar 2024 7:36pm
March
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
cools 1
Kylix 1
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
Mark 4
granny 3
casper 3
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
We have strict building regulations in this country but looking at this fire they don't go far enough, i heard on the news some one was saying they don't have any details regarding the cladding! so why the hell was it used? but what was underneath the cladding?, [and if the cladding is at fault are they going to check every block of flats where its been fitted?] Why no water sprinklers?, fire alarms? The true will come out in the end but this country does nothing about, 2009? I just hope those to blame spend many many years behind bars but alas they won't, as for watching those scenes of the building engulfed in flames had me weaping for the people inside, no one should die like that.

Google Ads
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Water sprinklers become target for idiots to set off causing an enormous amount of damage. They have brought them in as compulsory on new builds above a certain height in recent years.

They aren't sure why the new fire alarm system didn't work, but likewise the implicit fire containment didn't work either.

the old defence of "it meets regulations" doesn't really wash, its still up to the manufacturer/designer to ensure things are safe regardless of what regulations say. It was much better when we had British Standards but some governments thought they were far too restrictive and they have been watered down to things like CE marks which mean very little.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3

One witness who said he was telling his friend to cover the childrens' heads with damp towels, was told that there wasn't any water ! So , either the pressure was so low due to fire appliances or pipes must have ruptured.

Sadly the gentleman speaking lost contact.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
A lot of people would be running water I should imagine, it would certainly be one of the first things I would do would be to fill the bath.

I presume on a high rise the water is either tanked above or pumped, either way there is going to be limited supply.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
It is Dry Riser or Wet Riser. A dry riser is kept dry to prevent freezing. The fire engine or pump pressure system connects to the riser to supply pressure.

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 452
It is possible the connection was in a no go area with falling burning debris.

Attached Images
398px-Dry-Riser.jpg
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by dustymclean
It is Dry Riser or Wet Riser. A dry riser is kept dry to prevent freezing. The fire engine or pump pressure system connects to the riser to supply pressure.


I was referring to the domestic supply, not the fire suppression supply. The dry risers are fitted to eliminate the need to put loads of hoses up stairwells when fighting a fire, this eliminates a number of associated problems such as the amount of hose needed/available, the hazard when people are trying to use the stairwells and the speed of use.

Quite a few more details about various aspect of the cladding and gas main in this article https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ainst-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell but be carefule which statements are specific and which are generic.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
What I found rather distasteful were the duplicated signs blaming the Tories for the fire being held aloft amongst the crowd storming the town hall. It was obviously orchestrated as the signs were printed. (I would have equally found it distasteful if the signs were blaming Labour).

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Wiki Guardian
Offline
Wiki Guardian
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,973
Originally Posted by fish5133
What I found rather distasteful were the duplicated signs blaming the Tories for the fire being held aloft amongst the crowd storming the town hall. It was obviously orchestrated as the signs were printed. (I would have equally found it distasteful if the signs were blaming Labour).


Sadly Fish there is always the career banner wavers who just want to get on the bandwagon. They use anything to try to promote their own opinions. Everyone knows one.

Last edited by Dilly; 17th Jun 2017 5:52am.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
The claddings banned over 4 floors in the usa due to fire safety
The platform ladders only reach maybe 10th floor
A bridgehead has to be made 2 floors under fire floor( 4th)
So the people at the top had no chance as BA wearers will not climb stairs that high & have enough air to reach back down to BA entry control on the 2nd.
Its the perfect storm of council apathy, arms length management, contractor profit before safety, not learning or implementing coroners advice from camberwell 2009 fire.

Last edited by svenlock68; 17th Jun 2017 6:58am.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,044
svenlock....A catalogue of disastrous occurences.


Don't know in this instance but when I was involved in pricing design and build work we would often have meetings with client to discuss the job and obviously cost savings would come up. Sometimes it was in the Building Contractors interest( financially) to find and offer potential savings (although not offering the complete saving). The burden of responsibility would still be with the designers. Would be interesting to know if the cladding used was as originally specified or if it was changed. Nothing illegal about that just our fire safety regs not tight enough for external cladding. Wondering why it seemed to spread so quickly internally despite so called compartmentalisation.

so heartbreaking the stories and can understand all the anger and frustration..just hope it doesn't explode into riots etc...which IMO would be a disgrace to the dead

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,788
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by fish5133
What I found rather distasteful were the duplicated signs blaming the Tories for the fire being held aloft amongst the crowd storming the town hall. It was obviously orchestrated as the signs were printed. (I would have equally found it distasteful if the signs were blaming Labour).


Personally I also believe that it has now been turned into a political thing. There seemed to be a number of mini buses or coaches parked from the arial view we got. People maybe brought in from outside the area. Organised by this chap :

Mustafa Al-Mansur

CEO and Founder @Vocabridge A new breed of an LSP. 14 years of consulting and business background in IT, Telecoms, Insurance and Payments.

Unfortunately ,as sad and as terrible the whole thing is, that reaction yesterday I believe has not done them any favours. I also think Emily Maitlis's interview of Mrs May was disgusting. What is it that these TV interviewers don't understand. They know it all, and just consistently attempt to do their own interrogation and bullying on matters that they know answers cannot be given at that moment in time. Disgraceful.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Respect to the guys on the ALP just missing fire debris while pushin water up high.
Well out of BA tech bulletin 197 policy but FFs i know who are fitness champs will always have a go whatever the risk
The safety HAS come from compartment structure/ wet dry riser testing& maintanence/ knowing the building/ fire fighting devices on floors/ signage/ residents being knowledgable ie fire marshalls / sprinklers/ design & most important the RIGHT materials being used no matter the cost....
The irony is this area is v wealthy for some

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 383
The safety HAS TO come i meant

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Wiki Master
OP Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,344
Likes: 19
Turns out the firebrigade attended the flat where the fire broke out and thought they had put the fire out but never noticed the fire had spread until it was too late.

I've had firefighter training and its consistently imposed on you to NEVER assume a fire is out until you've checked and double checked everything and then check again just to make sure.

The fire and the consequences are most certainly not the firefighters' faults but there was a missed opportunity by carelessness. I'm sure they feel very bad on themselves but that's their job.

The government are partly to blame, they sat on the safety problems since the wake up call in 2009 - did they really think that was a one-off and it would never ever happen again?

But the main blame is the cladding manufacturers, it doesn't matter if it meets standards or not if it is unsafe. They test the stuff, they know what can happen, they still produce it.

Anybody that lives in Liscard House will be pleased to know the insulation infill there appears to be one of the safer ones available even if it isn't mineral insulation - but demand it is thoroughly checked anyway.


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by Excoriator - 27th Mar 2024 10:52am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by Excoriator - 23rd Mar 2024 9:48am
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Tall Brick Chimneys
by diggingdeeper - 16th Mar 2024 11:56am
For Sale & Free
Wisper electric bike. 36v .
by Dilly - 21st Mar 2024 7:36pm
This is Elvis
by GingerTom - 17th Mar 2024 2:37pm
Member Spotlight
KevinFinity
KevinFinity
Wirral
Posts: 2,354
Joined: April 2009
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Facial recognition coming in supermarkets?
by Excoriator - 27th Mar 2024 10:52am
Hot Spot Chippie Broadway
by Excoriator - 26th Mar 2024 7:57pm
Bolts at Bebington Road
by Excoriator - 23rd Mar 2024 9:48am
Get your Money Tree ready
by keef666 - 22nd Mar 2023 12:27pm
Restaurant/pub with outdoor seating - Bromborough
by CarterUSM - 7th Aug 2020 7:59pm
News : New Topics
Gaza
by diggingdeeper - 29th Oct 2023 9:28am
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by Excoriator - 10th Sep 2019 8:50am
New Enthusiast Forums
Netflix 3 Body Problem.
by BultacoAstro - 22nd Mar 2024 8:04am
Xbox
by TudorBlue - 3rd Mar 2024 8:48pm
Wiper mechanism needed
by Peter0787 - 20th Feb 2024 4:07pm
What song are you listening to?
by - 24th Jun 2007 9:06am
Popular Topics(Views)
5,069,784 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,013,883 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5