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I went to the West Kirby Rally today, and got there about an hour and a quarter before the great man arrived. The crowd was already huge and swelling. For curiosity I counted arrivals coming from the promenade over a one minute period and got a figure of about ten a second.

Joining the crowd I kept an eye on the flow of people and it stayed at about the same or more for at least an hour. That means 36,000 people.

Imagine my surprise to find the figure of 2,000 bandied about by the likes of the Wirral Globe. I have no experience of estimating the size of crowds, but stand by my estimate based on the rate of arrival. If anything my estimate would be low; I had no view of people coming from Dee Lane.

It is an indication of the bias that exists in the media that such a low figure should be published. But never mind. The polls are swinging Labour's way. The Tory lead is now about 9% and falling fast. I don't think Treeza's going to get quite the coronation she was hoping for. Even the Mail on Sunday is showing a 12 point lead, down from its previous figure of 18%

Personally, seeing what she's promising in her manifesto, I wonder how much worse she will be in power, and would be very glad to see her lose.

Corbyn is just 2% down from the percentage the tories won with in 2015 looking at the popular vote. Latest poll has Labour 35% Tories 44%

Unfortunately the popular vote doesn't translate very well with seats.

I believe West Kirby was Corbyn's 50th rally since the election was announced.

Its starting to look like there is a chance of a hung parliament, would Labour risk a Lib-Lab alliance again? I'd hope the Liberals wouldn't risk a Lib-Con alliance after getting walked over last time but I'm sure they would fall for it again.

Liberals have done themselves no favours in recent years but they could hold the balance of power.

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Did you have your picture taken, with your banner Rude ?

Labour would build 1 million new homes ,half of those 500,000 of those would be for social housing !

Blair and Brown built 7,780 council houses.(562 per year average) 0.3%


Jeremy's promises and probably on green belt too. It all seems very ambitious. Been done before though !

I've always thought that with this housing shortage why don't they build prefabricated houses as they did just after the war.
Surely with todays technology they could build cheaper,better, and quicker homes than traditional bricks and mortar.
You could train men to erect them and possibly construct the sections in shipyards. (Why not also have a small room for an exercise bike that could generate a small amount of electricity for storage and use, thus also making some a bit more healthier)
Have a look at click

If the Conservatives win, we are indeed in for a hard time, TM will take it that her manifesto has been accepted, and that they now have carte blanche to implement more extreme measures, they will no doubt be looking at what legislation can be changed to give them more power to fleece us all.

There isn't really a housing shortage, it's just that they keep boarding houses up and knocking them down instead of refurbish them. This buts loads of money in the developers pockets instead of the people's pockets. They also need to spend money on policing and security in some areas to bring houses back into use.

This destroy and build policy isn't good for the country.

I suspect that brexit will mean a lot of wealthy folk leaving London. That has already started and the effect on property prices there is that they are now falling. Once this happens the 'investors' who bought these apartments etc as a way of storing money will withdraw too, and the prices will fall ever faster.

The effect will spread across the country, and an awful lot of conservative home owners will see the value of their property plunge.

This is a good thing for the young, and indeed a good thing for the country but I can't see those who enjoy talking about how the value of their house has shot up with their friends will lightly forgive the tories.

I am beginning to wonder if the tories want to lose this election. Having realised that Brexit is a car-crash, they don't want to be behind the wheel!

Corbyn went on to the Wirral Live show in Prenton Park where, from eye witness accounts, he was greeted like a Rock Star by a massive crowd - many tens of thousands if not more. This WAS reported by the media but in a way that minimised the support he received. I think the narrative is that 'He is not a leader' and that is what they are sticking to.

It's quite funny to hear this criticism from the old middle right PLP people who oppose Corbyn. Any one of them would be delighted to see a crowd of 50 or so! Yet this man can attract many thousands of people to hear him speak for 20 minutes, on a rather dull day on a promenade with no difficulty whatsoever. He has turned the Labour party into the biggest political party in Europe (and still growing) and kept a divided party together and managed a highly popular manifesto which - for a change - actually has policies that ordinary folk want to see happening as well as for once unashamedly supports what the party stands for.

I'd say he has done pretty well as a leader.

Hallelujah, saviour of our world in our midst, look for the bearded scruff and you shall find...now where's my sick bag.

Ex. you might only be referring to this area. I would suggest from accounts in general, people across the country have no faith in the man or his policies at all. That's going by other social media groups, and anti Corbyn feelings running very high.

I do think the gap is narrowing at the moment, but what difference does any of it make ? People vote, and half the people will be happy, the other half won't. Who at the end of the day gives a monkeys ? Unless of course we have a re-run General Election, as it seems to be the suggested 'thing' now. Have a double 'go' on everything ! Someone will soon say the elections are fixed and all the rest of the propaganda that goes on .

I've listened to recordings of yesterday, and although uttering the words many want to hear, it was just uttering words that sounded weak with no clout. Very good as an activist, but not as a politician !

Wow cools, bearded scruff, if we go by the old adage that clothes maketh man, then we would indeed be disappointed, look at the succession of allegedly well dressed men that have appeared before the courts, oh and what about that Icon of fashion as praised by Vogue magazine Terry May, £1000 handbags and still manages to look like an old spinster that the cat has slept on.

Casper, you would think he would make a little more effort, it's not like he can't afford it , at least £130,000 a year so I heard. It's also the promises he's making which obviously everybody would like but it just won't be achievable. It's like you all truly believe he can perform miracles. There's alot I don't like about the Tory manifesto by the way, but I've got to hope things will get better, no pain no gain!

We have had pain cools, and are being promised a lot more to come, how is it that those least able to pay are repeatedly being targeted by this government? austerity is a farce an ideal forced on us by those that are well able to afford it, for all the austerity measures they have put in place to what end? they have still borrowed more money than all the last Labour governments put together, the sixth richest country in the world, and we have food banks, poverty and people sleeping in the streets, wow what a wonderful job they are doing, it cant get much worse , can it?

Well, poor Theresa has the unfortunate knack of wearing good clothes very badly. I saw a shot of her canvassing and she looked positively menacing. I suppose she could have been wearing body armour, but the overall effect was neither friendly nor welcoming.

As far as Corbyn is concerned he was quite tidy when I saw him. He was wearing a suit, no tie, but that is common these days. I suspect you have bought the failed propaganda that attempted to turn him into another Michael Foot. That failed. They are obviously very different animals. If you want to vote for someone dressed like a used car salesman (Cameron's style) then go ahead. It is singularly unappealing to me. I'd rather have someone who dresses like an ordinary person.

it could all go like the britex and trump show,if he wins it's because they made him win,then it would look like you had a choice which believe me you never

I'd say the opposite, the proposals are diametrically opposite to the Tory party's actions and would improve the lives of the majority of the population as opposed to increasing the wallets of a few.

The country is getting richer and the majority of the population are getting poorer. Distribution of wealth is one of the main functions of Government, it is tied in to all the other functions (peace, health, development and education).

What do you want him to say?

Appropiate.

difference with trump is that he want people to work,and find work,How many are still not in work in the Wirral who are able to work???and are still draining the benefits or whatever they are claiming off the tax off the ones who are working to keep them on there fags and booze?does the Government not keep records of this.Why do they know how to fiddle the system?
Anyone been unemployed who can say???

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Image removed - This is a public part of our forum where any age can view the image and its contents that have been posted.

Oh dear! denials by the Conservative Party, I did not have sex with that woman.

if the picture posted is anything to go by, 2000 is pretty accurate.

36,000 people would be of football stadium proportions.

36000!! ..propaganda! There were just under 19,000 at Wembley for Tranmere v Forest Green..you couldn't fit that many on the lake car park.
The farmers market was on in West Kirby on Saturday so that probably took the other 34000 you counted through.

10/10 for trying..\

Mays not been in the job long enough to get slagged off so any rubbishing should be of the conservative party not May personally.

whats the slogan Theresa May---Corbyn Will

Is this?

Landslide victory for Corbyn then.

Aha - I knew I'd seen an aerial photo of the rally somewhere! Great shot. Where can that be found online, please?

Wirral Unite Community Branch NW/96 Facebook page

Car park is 100m X 25m = 2500m2, but its not full of people so call it about 1800m2

Normal close knit crowds are about 3.5 people per m2 but the further from the stage the less dense it is and around the stage it may be higher density than 3.5 so calling it on average about 3 people per m2.

Ends up with an estimate of 5400 people which is roughly the momentum estimate of 5000.

DD you've clearly got WAYYYY too much time on your hands

Great to see such a good turn out however many it actually was

Did I mention I started to count them yesterday?

All I can say for sure is that not many bought ice-creams off me

Silly question DD. I'd rather the man didn't say anything as I am totally fed up with his bull s..t and tactics. A creep of great proportions and tonight he has really hissed me off. So no vote for him. Not that it ever was my intention to vote for a Trotskyite, with a Marxist as a back up , but I always keep my options open in these matters. 2 down, 3 to go.....

What is wrong with free education and a free health services?

What is wrong with bringing essential infrastructure back under UK control?

If you want "bull s..t and tactics" there is the obvious experts of that to vote for. Corbyn has no track record of this.

The way the numbers pan out, if you vote for any party apart from Labour and Conservative then you are effectively voting Conservative.

Who would run the most successful Government? The answer is probably the Conservatives. But its the country and its people as a whole that have to be successful not just a small group of people.

NOTHING is FREE DD. Health, education, are paid for by the tax payer. Free at the point of use, and to those who don't pay taxes.

Population increases is probably the greatest drawback to returning to the good old days.

Railways... back into public ownership. energy into public ownership, telecommunication back into public ownership ?

I think that was when the rot started. Strike after strike after strike....many still remember those dark days.

We could have a re -run and total control of the masses if we returned to that agenda and he and his cronies know it.

I also believe it was the beginning of privatisation in the first place and all connected to the EU agenda as they didn't want the strikes either. France had also had her fair share of strikes.
One reason to stop the country being brought to it's knees ever again.

Thanks for the info Rudebox; a great shot of the Marine Lake area.

When were they? I think the ones you are referring to were after the nationalisation of much of our infrastructure.



There is also water, electricity, gas, nuclear power stations.

How ridiculous is it when a foreign government owns our electricity supply? Its already nationalised but by the wrong nation!

Our rail network is the dearest and most inefficient in Europe.

How ridiculous is it when I can travel in one direction at £18 for 360 miles but it costs me over £100 to travel half that distance in the other.

Germany, France Austria, Sweden etc etc all have nationalised industries and even have things like Hotel chains in state ownership.

Even local buses and other local council services are operated by foreign countries - its madness!



There are still a lot of strikes, its just that the media do not publicise them like they used to and also that they have effectively been outlawed in some cases. There are far more people being abused by employers now than in the 70s.

The whole structure at the moment is unstable, there is an excessive amount of money travelling upwards, there is money travelling outwards but there is no money travelling downwards or inwards - this is unsustainable.



Its not about controlling the masses, its about controlling the environment and infrastructure.

How long would you put up with a neighbour owning a shilling coin machine on your bathroom door?

On paper nothing. In reality:

Free education for all will cost a fortune. Corbyn hasn't even fully costed that promise. If its made too easy then everyone will go to university for a year to doss around then just drop out. Those who got a grant did that when I was there - we lost over half of the first year students.

Free health service always has been and always will be free. If you want to start the old chestnut about privatisation then you need to look at Labour who started that ball rolling. There's a really good article on the web which shows which MPs (and its ALL three main parties) have links to private health companies.

UK infrastructure under UK control? British Rail of the 70s is a good example of that, or when the Post Office ran the telephones. The UK cannot competently do public services. If they could, then there would be no competition to Royal Mail.

If it wasn't for the nationalisation of the rail services in 1948 they would probably hardly exist today. After building the railways back up the biggest damage was done in the Beeching era, some of that was necessary but it went way too far.

Health services are far from free, look at dentists, opticians, prescriptions and huge waiting lists (its hardly a free service if it is not being done!). Many People are disabled, dysfunctional and in pain because no free health service is available for them.

Many student loans are never paid back, I have a student loan of around of about £20,000 which unless I win the lottery will never be paid back. The real cost isn't that high but the Government have the loans as paper assets to balance their books, in reality it is a disguised cost.

It has been a big excuse for Universities to charge more for their services and expand. Drop out rates are huge because of the greed of the Universities, many students are taken on that are just not capable of completing the courses.

The Universities are gradually learning how to play the game, if industry and the Government are not prepared to pay for research then the Universities commercialise and sell the results of their research, many Universities now produce products (English?). At one time it would have been the country that reaped the profits but now it is not.

I've always thought you got into a University on the strength of your exam results.
Personally I think certain courses like maths, the sciences and medical should have a higher priority than some others.

well said granny, I also remember those dark days, struggling to bring 3 kids up during strike after strike. Often brought about by little tin pot shop stewards who followed the whims certain union leaders

Yeah, these terrible people that went on strike so they could have a nice little holiday without pay and live off their vast savings. Must be true because that's what the tory propaganda machine says .

Strikes are not a trivial things, it causes enormous hardship, we didn't have food banks back then to support us. One or two tin pot stewards couldn't convince families to go without out food, the workers were already desperate, they had no choice but to strike or be walked all over.

There are enough documentaries about all the main strikes, watch them, you will see suffering on an enormous scale not a load of "lefties" having a field day.

Where are they now?

Coal - gone.
Steel - gone.
Electricity - gone.
Gas - gone.
Ship building - gone.
Post offices - gone.
Royal mail - gone.
Railways - gone.
Car manufacture - gone.
Fishing - gone.
Water - gone.
Nuclear - gone.

All virtually demolished or sold off to foreign countries. We can't have a load of Olivers asking for more can we!

There are plenty of reasons why all those industries have gone. Many have gone to overseas because they can do it cheaper or better. That affects all Western nations, not just the UK.

Its like all these people who whinge about the Poles or other foreigners coming here to take our jobs.

UK coal has been too sulphurous to burn for many years, which is why we use imports. Unless you don't care about the environment and acid rain and want a return to the days of smog?

As for the UK car industry. Doing quite well:

UK car production hits 17-year high as industry issues Brexit warning
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/apr/27/uk-car-industry-has-its-best-month-in-17-years

Or would you prefer to return to the days of BL and Austin Rover and the UK churn out poor quality cars nobody wants?

As for water, one wonders if it was sold off because of the impending EU rules about to be imposed because of how disgusting we were at dumping our waste into rivers and the sea:

A bit more about power stations using wood pellets over coal and the reasons why here:

https://www.drax.com/technology/this-is-how-you-make-a-biomass-wood-pellet/

There are loads of other EU countries dumping raw sewage long after 1998 - Greece, Italy, Ireland and Spain in the last few years, some are still doing it.

There is no significant UK car industry, the big producers are not UK companies. As for quality, compare BL to Ford, Vauxhall, Renault, Fiat and Alfa in the 70s they all had their problems, cars were being built to a budget, longevity was not a key factor.

The coal industry is increasing in this country again.

.http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21722214-jeremy-corbyns-party-no-shape-form-effective-opposition-tories-labour-unfit

Which party do we blame we blame for the decline of the flint axe head industry?

If the Tories do get a huge majority to govern I shudder to think how much power they'll have with nobody to stop them. No u-turns and the rich getting richer and the poorer having more austerity thrust upon them.
The NHS getting more privatetised (via possibly a TTIP type agreement with America). How many mps have shares in private healthcare?
Full steam ahead with the MSM and papers to start reporting their version of "the truth" for the benefit of the Tories.


re using your house as an asset to pay for care I wonder how that works within the next paragraphs

The other commercial opportunity: the dementia tax is a stealth incentive to take out equity release mortgages.”

I had to look up what an equity release mortgage is; being in social housing, I haven’t had the opportunity or the need to find out about this particular financial product. Here’s what I found, courtesy of moneysupermarket.com:

With a lifetime mortgage, you take out a loan, secured on your property, and receive that amount as a tax-free lump sum. You do not usually make monthly repayments. Instead, the interest “rolls up”, and the loan plus interest is repaid after your death, when the property is sold.

With a home reversion plan, you sell all or part of your home in return for a tax-free lump sum and a guaranteed lifetime lease, with no monthly repayments to meet. After your death the house is sold, so the lender gets back its percentage share.

The only difference between this and the Dementia Tax is that, with the Dementia Tax, homeowners would buy an insurance policy instead of taking out a loan – guaranteeing that no money returns to any family member after the death of the homeowner.

(Or so it seems to me.)

The commenter adds: “This fast-growing market is dominated by Legal and General in the UK (29pc market share), of which a major shareholder is Capital Group, of which a key UK executive is Philip May, husband of Theresa May.”

Mr May is certainly a Capital Group shareholder, as described in this Guardian article. The headline may be a candidate for the Graun‘s ‘corrections and clarifications’ column because Capital certainly holds shares in Legal and General, and if L&G ends up selling the “products” the Conservative Party claims will be available for people facing the Dementia Tax,

You might want to read this:




https://www.theguardian.com/environ...free-day-since-the-industrial-revolution

Interesting read ...

At the start of the week YouGov asked people an open ended question, asking without any prompting if they could remember any of the promises that Labour or the Conservatives had made in their election manifestos

For Labour there were clear cut throughs by positive policies: 32% of people recalled the promise to axe tuition fees, 21% remembered promises to increase NHS funding, 20% recalled promises to nationalise the railways, Royal Mail or National Grid. All of these are policies which polling has found the public generally support, and which are relatively clear and easy to understand.

For the Conservative party only one policy was recalled by more than one in five people – the changes to care funding (which was often described as dementia tax, or taking old peoples homes, or similarly negative terms). In contrast to the simple and popular policies that people recalled from Labour, the one cut-through policy from the Tory manifesto was both unpopular and complicated. The next most recalled policies were going ahead with Brexit (recalled by 12%) and means-testing the Winter Fuel Allowance (10%).

Of course even when people do recall policies, that’s not really what they vote on – voting behaviour is much more about the broad perceptions of the parties, what they stand for, their leaders and their perceived competence. There are clear signs that the poor Conservative manifesto launch fed through into that.

Before the manifesto launches 35% of people thought the Conservative party’s policies seemed well thought-through, 38% did not. A week later only 19% think their policies are well thought-through, 54% do not. Contrast this with the positive impact of Labour’s manifesto. Before their launch only 25% of people thought they had well-thought through policies, now 31% of people do.

When a key plank of the Conservative party’s offering to the country has been the claim that they are the strong and steady party of competence, the drop in the proportion of people thinking they’ve well thought-through policies for the country should be worrying for them.

SOURCE

On coal, there was only one day that we had coal-free electricity generation in the UK (not sure about the imported electricity).

Today we had the record amount of solar power online, 24.3% of our power was solar for a peiod but even then 1.4% was still coal.

We can't get rid of the coal generators until we have 100% generation capability from other non-solar, non-tidal, non-wave, non-wind sources.

A dark still day in winter will still need 100% power generation, we have not got enough biomass, nuclear, gas and hydro to cover it, we still need coal.

The transition from coal to biomass on the existing stations seems a bit counter-productive when we are importing that massive amount of biomass by fossil fuel powered ships etc.

A slight caveat is that I know nothing about oil fueled power stations if we still have any?

"I never met the IRA" !

British Out of Ireland March 1984 !

Are you also going to cite every British politician who aided the independence of Ireland in 1914 and 1920?

Gerry Adams was never a member of the IRA.

The picture with McGuinness was in the House of Commons, 13 years after McGuinness was elected as Sinn Fein MP for Londonderry.

The person at Bobby Sands' funeral was was not Jeremy Corbyn it was probably Owen Carron.

Other British Politicians probably weren't attempting to be elected for British Prime Minister.

Mr Corbyn and Mr Adams at a Sands/Connolly event




The true extent of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell’s links with the IRA is revealed by a Telegraph investigation.


It can be disclosed that for seven years running, while the IRA “armed struggle” was at its height, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke at official republican commemorations to honour dead IRA terrorists, IRA “prisoners of war” and the active “soldiers of the IRA.”


The official programme for the 1988 event, held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in the Netherlands, states that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Mr Corbyn used the event to attack the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the precursor of the peace process.

He said it had resulted in no improvement in the lives of the people of Northern Ireland, adding: “It strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”

The editorial board of a hard-Left magazine, of which Mr Corbyn was a member, wrote an article praising the Brighton bombing. In its article on the IRA attack, which almost wiped out Margaret Thatcher’s Cabinet, the editorial board of London Labour Briefing said the atrocity showed that “the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it.”

According to an authoritative parliamentary reference work, Mr Corbyn was general secretary of the editorial board. He wrote the front-page story in the same issue of Briefing.

The same edition of Briefing, for December 1984, carried a reader’s letter praising the “audacity” of the IRA attack and stating: “What do you call four dead Tories? A start.”

It mocked Norman, now Lord, Tebbit, the trade secretary who was dug out of the rubble of the Grand Hotel, saying: “Try riding your bike now, Norman.”

It can also be revealed that in 2004 Mr McDonnell, now Labour’s shadow chancellor, was given a special award by Sinn Fein and another IRA-supporting body for the “unfailing political and personal support he has given to the republican community in the Six Counties over many years.”


John McDonnell is presented with a Hunger Strike commemorative plaque by Gerry Kelly

The award was presented to him at a Sinn Fein fundraising dinner by Gerry Kelly, the IRA terrorist who bombed the Old Bailey, killing one and injuring almost 200.

Kelly, now a senior Sinn Fein politician, also led the 1983 breakout of IRA inmates from the Maze prison, during which he shot a prison officer in the head.

As has been widely reported, Mr McDonnell also honoured IRA terrorists, though in his case only after the ceasefire.

In his apology for the remarks last month, Mr McDonnell claimed he only made them to promote the peace process.

In fact, however, Mr McDonnell told the IRA’s official newspaper that he opposed the peace process negotiations to create a power-sharing assembly in what became the Good Friday Agreement.

He said: “An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years…the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”

The disclosures are made after research by the Telegraph in archives in London, Oxford and Belfast.

Nigel Dodds, the Democratic Unionist MP for North Belfast, said: “Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell speak about honest politics and straight talking, but they should stop trying to pretend and tell lies that they were pro-peace. They were pro-terrorism. They were enemies of the peace process. They had a clear choice between the IRA and peaceful nationalism and they chose the IRA.”

Between 1986 and 1992, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke each year at the annual “Connolly/Sands” commemoration in London to honour dead IRA terrorists and support imprisoned IRA “prisoners of war.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

DD, You can support and make as many excuses as you like for this man and his colleagues , but it won't change anything !

If what you posted in your 3 pics was as DD said I'd say it was fake news - something Fallon and the right wing Billionare owned populist press will repeat over and over in the next few days.

Not seen any of them (MSM) saying about how Corbyn won the 2013 The Gandhi Foundation International Peace Award.

2013: Jeremy Corbyn, for his "consistent efforts over a 30 year Parliamentary career to uphold the Gandhian values of social justice and non violence."

Corbyn was never a member of the London Labour Briefing, he wrote articles for the magazine like many other politicians write articles in newspapers etc that may also contain other articles that they don't agree with.

A slight correction to my previous post - it wasn't Owen Carron it was probably John Sands, Bobby's friend or maybe John Sands, Bobby's brother.

Here is a picture that is a bit clearer.

Some more from the same article, in case you haven't read it all.
This article is NOT anything to do with our present General Election , it was printed in 2015.

Programmes for the events have been obtained by the Telegraph.

The programme for the 1987 event, on May 16 of that year, praises the “soldiers of the IRA,” saying: “We are proud of our people and the revolutionaries who are an integral part of that people.”

The programme for the 1988 event, on May 8 of that year, states that “in this, the conclusive phase in the war to rid Ireland of the scourge of British imperialism… force of arms is the only method capable of bringing this about.”

The event took place the day after the funerals of the service personnel killed by the IRA in the Netherlands.

Each programme includes a list of IRA “prisoners of war” who are to be honoured that year, including the Brighton bomber, Patrick Magee, and sectarian murderers.

The lists include their prisons and birthdays, with IRA supporters in the UK encouraged to send them birthday cards in jail.

Mr Corbyn typically spoke alongside senior figures from Sinn Fein, including Gerry Adams at the 1991 event, at which he attacked “British imperialism” and praised Bobby Sands, the IRA terrorist who died on hunger-strike.
The events were organised by the Wolfe Tone Society, which describes itself in the programmes as an “Irish republican support group based in London. Its work consists of helping republican prisoners’ relatives and promoting the policies and publications of Sinn Fein.”

Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell “work closely” with the Wolfe Tone Society, according to its convenor, Dennis Grace, speaking at the 2006 event.

It was at the Wolfe Tone Society’s 2003 commemoration that Mr McDonnell made his now notorious comments calling for Sands and other terrorists to be “honoured,” adding: “It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table.”

In his apology last month for the remarks, Mr McDonnell claimed that he made them to promote the peace process, saying: “I went out and argued for the peace process and I made this speech to a group of republicans because one of the problems we had is that if there was a feeling that they were defeated or humiliated they would not stand down.”

In fact, however, the Telegraph can disclose, Mr McDonnell initially opposed the peace process. In January 1998, during the negotiations for a new power-sharing assembly which three months later became the Good Friday agreement, he told the IRA’s official newspaper, An Phoblacht: “An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years. We want peace, but the settlement must be just and the settlement must be for an agreed and united Ireland.”

He changed his position when the IRA accepted the accord and supported the agreement, though he continued to attack the British government for their “failure of nerve in dealing with unionism.”

Mr Corbyn was also active in the Labour Committee on Ireland, another explicitly pro-republican pressure group, speaking at its Labour conference fringe meetings and signing LCI’s statement of objectives in 1984.

LCI regarded Northern Ireland as a colony and the Loyalist majority as a construct which should be ignored. It campaigned vitriolically against the peaceful, constitutional nationalist party, the SDLP, whose supporters it described as “cannon-fodder…manipulated and directed by a sophisticated management caucus.”

Much of the autumn 1985 edition of the LCI journal, Labour and Ireland, is devoted to a six-page personal attack on John Hume, the then SDLP leader, Nobel Peace Prize winner and key architect of the peace process.

The journal described him as “dogmatic,” “insecure,” and suffering from a “deeply-rooted need for adulation and recognition as an international statesman.”

Diane Abbott, the new shadow international development secretary, was also a strong supporter of LCI.

In a 1984 interview with Labour and Ireland, she attacked the Unionist population of Northern Ireland as an “enclave of white supremacist ideology” comparable to white settlers in Zimbabwe.

Mr Corbyn also strongly opposed a precursor to the peace process, the Anglo-Irish Agreement. He said on two occasions that the agreement “strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”

However, it is the explicit support for the Brighton bombing in London Labour Briefing magazine that may prove the most controversial.

In its December 1984 leader, the editorial board “disassociated itself” from an article the previous month criticising the bombing, saying the criticism was a “serious political misjudgment.”

The board said it “reaffirmed its support for, and solidarity with, the Irish republican movement” and added that “the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it.”

Alongside its editorial, the board reprinted a speech by Gerry Adams describing the bombing as a "blow for democracy" and the "inevitable result of the British presence in [Ireland]."

Briefing earlier stated: “We refuse to parrot the ritual condemnation of ‘violence’ because we insist on placing responsibility where it lies…. Let our ‘Iron Lady’ know this: those who live by the sword shall die by it. If she wants violence, then violence she will certainly get.”
According to the authoritative reference work, Parliamentary Profiles, by the late Andrew Roth, Mr Corbyn was general secretary of the editorial board at the time. Other reference material describes him as a member of the board. Mr Corbyn ran Briefing’s mailing list and supporters’ register, according to an advert in the March 1983 issue.

He usually chaired its fringe meetings at Labour conferences and other events and was a keynote speaker at its annual general meeting in July 1985, after the Brighton articles appeared.

In a telephone interview during the recent leadership campaign, Mr Corbyn was repeatedly asked by a BBC interviewer whether he condemned the murders by the IRA.

He five times refused to answer the question directly, saying: “I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as the other sides” before the line went dead.

Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell did not respond to requests for comment.

Corbyn became the local Labour Party's agent and organiser,[32] and had responsibility for the 1979 general election campaign in Hornsey.[16] Around this time, he became involved with London Labour Briefing, where he was a contributor and member of the editorial board during the 1980s. It has been reported that he served as its general secretary for some time

Corbyn wasn't on the editorial board, Private Eye repeated this claim which seemed to originate from Andrew Roth.

You can read the profile HERE

"joined LONDON LABOUR BRIEFING editorial board - led by Ken Livingstone and Ted Knight and designed to push the London party Leftward - as General Secretary"

The more I learn about this JC , the more I distrust him. A true snake in the grass just waiting to cripple this country if he ever gets a chance. Telling everybody what they want to hear but as I have said before not achievable in my opinion. Don't trust him one bit the movie Face Off jumps into my mind..

I dont distrust him, I think hes a good man . My worry is that that we will end up taking decades to recover, and we will be weak sitting ducks for any country or outside pressure groups that feel like stamping he will , with all the best intentions, be too lenient, too reasonable (with EU) about a Brexit deal ,which when combined with the borrowing of billions and billions will see us in serious trouble ,especially if borrowing rates rise, which could take us decades to recover from . We will be sitting ducks for any pressure groups /countries that feel like trampling us.

Sorry about that post, it was too late to alter it, some of my alterations were misplaced in the text and it really doesnt read correctly at all .Should have read .

I dont distrust him, I think hes a good man . My worry is that he will , with all the best intentions, be too lenient, too reasonable (with EU) about a Brexit deal ,which when combined with the borrowing of billions and billions will see us in serious trouble ,especially if borrowing rates rise, which could take us decades to recover from . We will be sitting ducks for any pressure groups /countries that feel like trampling us. Half the problem will also be that he trusts 'the people' not to take advantage if he puts various helps etc in place etc , but loads I think will just screw the improved distribution system and it will bankrupt us.

How anybody can trust the tories is way beyond me. They are blatantly making the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Tory manifestos are sales blurb to get votes, as soon as they get in power the manifesto is chucked in the bin. Yet again they have a cap on pensioners care contribution in the manifesto, this lasted two weeks last time before they junked it.

The tories have hugely reduced corporation tax from 28% to 19% but keep on grabbing money from the less well off. They have abolished the small business reductions so that small businesses now pay the same rate as huge businesses. They plan to reduce corporation tax even further to 17% whilst increasing the punishing austerity measures.

Corbyn has always openly done what he does to create peace, he sincerely believed a united Ireland was the best option. This could well have been the case if it hadn't been for the enormous discrimination against the Catholics (which is now officially acknowledged by all parties). The Catholics were forced to leave Northern Ireland in droves which created an unbalanced community and the aggro ramped up again.

Corbyn lives in a pipe dream. You only have to look round the world to see his system of government has failed.

Which countries are they. All countries that promote the division of wealth end up in civil war or bankruptcy. .

Those countries that invest in their people and infrastructure succeed.

Exactly, Cools. He's a devious, double headed snake.
His socialist policies are from archaic experimentation which hasn't worked as Jimbob says.

Corbyn's style of left Socialism is on a par with Venezuela and we see what's happened there. He's not Labour left, he's Labour far left and it's worrying when Mcdonnell is a Marxist, Corbyn a Trotskyist being backed up by McCluskey , who's a Communist. Goodness knows what Abbott is underneath her delectable grin but what a line up to lead this country !

I am also amazed that the likes of Blair, Brown, Major, Clegg, and others who are keeping very quiet. They have had enough to shout about over Brexit, surely they cannot see this man as being a leader of a Labour Government ? If he doesn't get elected (please God) I can see the party splitting sending him and his treacherous cronies to the back of beyond.

John McDonnell has already called for 'insurrection' prior to the last General Election. If the Tories are elected, he'll do exactly the same thing to rock and try to bring down the Government if it's not Labour.

I've had various correspondence from my Labour MP and I quite like her, but I won't be voting for her as the thought of giving Corbyn my vote is excruciating.

Why Socialism Doesn't Work

1. Socialism is the Big Lie of the twentieth century. While it promised prosperity, equality, and security, it delivered poverty, misery, and tyranny. Equality was achieved only in the sense that everyone was equal in his or her misery.

In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government intervention its pernicious, seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery.

A pyramid scheme is ultimately unsustainable because it is based on faulty principles. Likewise, collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world can be traced to one critical defect: it is a system that ignores incentives.

In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter!

2. The strength of capitalism can be attributed to an incentive structure based upon the three Ps: (1) prices determined by market forces, (2) a profit-and-loss system of accounting and (3) private property rights. The failure of socialism can be traced to its neglect of these three incentive-enhancing components.

3. By their failure to foster, promote, and nurture the potential of their people through incentive-enhancing institutions, centrally planned economies deprive the human spirit of full development. Socialism fails because it kills and destroys the human spirit–just ask the people leaving Cuba in homemade rafts and boats [and those waiting in long lines today in Venezuela struggling, and often failing, to buy food].

4. The temptress of socialism is constantly luring us with the offer: “give up a little of your freedom and I will give you a little more security.” As the experience of this century has demonstrated, the bargain is tempting but never pays off. We end up losing both our freedom and our security.

And if we vote Tory we are going to get, poverty misery and tyranny, but we will have to work that much harder and longer for it, so whats the difference?

My biggest fear of leaving the EU was being left with a Tory dictatorship, stripped of any gains we have made toward equality and pushed back into Victorian times, if you think Corbyn is a snake in the grass take a closer look at the alternative Tory line up, do you really believe that they understand how ordinary people live? the only thing they believe is of how much use we are to them, and like any other dictatorship if you are of little use or value you are forgotten, given the minimum of support at the least cost.

PS I was going to suggest in the spirit of true socialism that we have a whip around for poor Dave Cameron for some trainers at Sports Direct, or a M&S dress for his poor wife,from all accounts they must be getting down to their last few million.

The Story of Chicken Licken

Once upon a time there was a little chick called Chicken Licken who lived on a farmyard in the countryside.
One day, Chicken Licken went to the woods. He stopped by an oak tree. Suddenly a tiny acorn dropped from
the tree – wheeeeeeeeee! And hit Chicken Licken on the head – BONK!

Unfortunately, Chicken Licken didn’t see the acorn. He looked up the clear blue sky. “Oh, no!” he said “The
sky is falling, I must tell the king.”

So he ran and he ran and he ran until he got to the farmyard where he met Henny Penny.
“What’s the hurry?” clucked Henny Penny.
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” clucked Henny Penny

So Chicken Licken and Henny Penny scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” crowed Cocky Locky.
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” crowed Cocky Locky

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny and Cocky Locky scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” quacked Ducky Lucky and Drakey Lakey
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” quacked Ducky Lucky and Drakey Lakey

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky, Ducky Lucky and Drakey Lakey scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” honked Goosey Loosey
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” honked Goosey Loosey

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky , Ducky Lucky, Drakey Lakey and Goosey Loosey scurried off
to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” gobbled Turkey Lurkey
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” gobbled Turkey Lurkey

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky , Ducky Lucky, Drakey Lakey, Goosey Loosey and Turkey
Lurky scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” snapped Foxy Loxy.
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“Follow me, my feathery friends, I can help you find the king” smiled Foxy Loxy.

So, Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky, Ducky Lucky, Draky Lakey, Goosey Loosey and Turkey Lurky
followed Foxy Loxy deeper into the forest.

Foxy Loxy was just getting ready to gobble up the feathery friends when suddenly a tiny acorn dropped
from the tree – wheeeeeeeeee! And hit Foxy Loxy on the head – BONK!

Luckily, Foxy Loxy didn’t see the acorn. He looked up the clear blue sky. “Oh, no!” he said “The sky is
falling, I must tell the king.”

Foxy Loxy ran off and was never seen again. Everyone looked at Chicken Licken.

“Are you sure the sky fell on your head” they said.
“Well, maybe it was an acorn” said Chicken Licken!
And they chased him all the way home to the farmyard.

Morning Casper

Not a sensible thing to say about the Cameron's, Casper. Corbyn raised in Yewtree Manor ! His mother's family were VERY well off according to his brother Piers ( a Communist ).

Corbyn 'profile' He's also fluent in Spanish, reads Latin American Literature, has a deep connection with South American states, has been likened to various leaders of South American states, his first wife a Chilean refugee, 2nd wife, Mexican. His manifesto has been likened to Hugo Chavez. They are the dictatorship countries ,Casper. Have a look at images of these places , not the cities but outside in the small towns and villages and see the poverty, the dirt tracks the houses on stilts and the run down deprivation. Then tell us that 21st Socialism works.

Now, the worrying thing is about Corbyn, his policies will take longer than one term of office in Westminster, and he knows that ! Corbyn is NOT about to resign as leader of the Labour Party, which I find incredibly worrying as it shows his determination to control. He could partly or fully change ALL the rules and how else do dictators come into control ?

" Mr Corbyn, considered the UK’s equivalent of Bernie Sanders, has a personal and activist history in Latin America, citing Salvador Allende, the Chilean president who was deposed (and allegedly murdered) during Chile’s 1973 CIA backed Coup d’etat as a personal hero. Some in South America have even likened him to a British Pepe Mujica, former president or Uruguay."

His friends !


Fernando Lugo (President of Paraguay), Evo Morales (President of Bolivia), Lula da Silva (President of Brazil), Rafael Correa (President of Ecuador) and Hugo Chávez (President of Venezuela) in 2009. January 29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_of_the_21st_century

Socialism of the 21st century argues that both free-market industrial capitalism and twentieth-century socialism have failed to solve urgent problems of humanity, like poverty, hunger, exploitation, economic oppression, sexism, racism, the destruction of natural resources, and the absence of a truly participative democracy.[2] Therefore, because of the local unique historical conditions, socialism of the 21st century is often contrasted with previous applications of socialism in other countries and aims for a more decentralized and participatory planning process.[3] Socialism of the 21st century has democratic socialist elements, but primarily resembles Marxist revisionism.[3]

I always thought of a Ponzi scheme as being highly representative of capitalism. The money is bound to flow up the pyramid and those at the bottom of the pyramid get nowhere, the longer it lasts the more people there are at the bottom.

Your criticism of socialism is that it loses incentive then you use Venezuela as an example of where socialism failed, however Venezuela has not failed through lack of incentive, it has failed through crime and corruption. A robust police force should have been a priority but was ignored in the hurry to do other things.

There will always be greed, every system needs policing to control that greed whether capitalist or socialist.

Socialism doesn't take a lot of change to become progressive-socialism which is a realistic system. Capitalism hasn't got an equivalent way of moderating itself.

An important thing is that incentive also needs opportunity, something which is often totally overlooked.

Hi granny, very droll, here's one to think on:

There is no such thing as paranoia.
Your worst fears can come true at any moment.

As for Dave Cameron its not about the money, its about Dave marching into Sports Direct accompanied by his minders straight to the front of the queue in true Tory style, without even the the courtesy of an excuse me, manners cost nothing, the arrogance must have come from his days as a buller boy and the belief that you can bully and pay for your way out of anything.

You are correct to a point. The downfall of Venezuela began when Perez in the 1970's nationalised the petroleum and oil industry. I think the Politicians saw it as a feast as the oil prices were high at the same time they offered bribes of hand outs to the people in the way of 'benefits'.
Venezuelan politicians are still robbing the country (socialists) .There are many more examples of such.

A bit like the oil rich Arab nation of UAE and others do. All wealthy due to perks and benefits. Emirati men receive $19,000 when they marry an Emirati woman, for example, but they only have 9 million population. Venezuela population in 1970's was 11 million, today it's 31 million and the bribes don't work any longer.

Followed by Chavez cutting ties to the World Bank and the IMF.

I probably focus more on Venezuela as my brother-in-law is Venezuelan and his family still live out there, so I know more of what goes on, maybe .

The difference is Casper, that's not got anything to do with political policies and manifestos !

You obviously read the 'tittle tattle' newspapers to pick up stuff like that, Casper. Should Mr Cameron gone into Harrods and bought a pair of sparkly shoes like Mrs May's, you would have found something to complain about that too.

I'll tell you a story. One Labour MP whom I bumped into, was so arrogant that he wouldn't even bend down to tie his own shoe lace. He asked his chauffer to do it for him. He came from Kirby in Liverpool...who the f.. did he think he was ?

Oh yes. One of your hero's

Insurrection = a violent uprising against an authority or government.

[youtube]za5GYbfRmWo[/youtube]

I think I'll vote Lib/Dem. At least , if they were elected we'd all be able to smoke pot and swoon over the possibility of having psychosis in the near future where nothing will matter at all ! Yipeee !

Yes I know granny, it was a follow on about individuals that emanated from your comments about JC being a snake in the grass which I also believe has nothing to do with manifestos and policies (sorry about the sarcasm) we have people from all parties that have no right to be there, that are in it for themselves and what they can gain from it, take for example Neil Hamilton disgraced ex who Tory has wormed his way back onto the Westminster gravy train courtesy of UKIP, and there are many like him.

Somebody seems rattled.

Corbyn pledges one million jobs for British workers

The "vast majority" of the one million good quality jobs Labour has pledged would go to British workers, Jeremy Corbyn has said.
The vast majority will be for people coming out of our schools and our colleges and our universities - and we will not allow anyone to only recruit overseas for jobs here.

He said Labour would build an economy where "everyone shares in our country's wealth".

Who is everyone ?

Asked if he could guarantee that all or a proportion of the one million jobs would go to British workers, Mr Corbyn said after the speech: "They would obviously be for people looking for work.

"They've got to recruit in an open way so that everyone gets a fair chance.

Who is likely to be getting the 'fair chance' in that case. Maybe a twist on words ?


A Labour government would pump £250bn into industry through a new national investment bank to "unleash" untapped potential across the country, he said.
Where is the money coming from ?

Speaking in York, Mr Corbyn said Labour's industrial strategy was "serious, comprehensive and radical".

Leading innovator

After Mr Corbyn's speech, shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey said Labour's first industrial mission would be to ensure that 60% of UK energy comes from low carbon or renewable sources by 2020.

Renewables produce more than 20% of the UK’s electricity, and EU targets means that this is likely to increase to 30% by 2020.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40127661

Today he's at Age (Concern) and saying that he thinks care homes that can't manage should go into Council Authority. Does that mean our council tax will increase even more, as there has been no mention from him to give more allowance to councils or financial support for social care ? (not that I have heard)


This man is a pain in the bum. I actually hope he wins this election because the gripes won't stop if he doesn't win . Let the people see how they end up after 5 yrs of his Government, it's not even Labour, and if Tony Blair was standing again, (and all know my thoughts about him,) I think it would be preferable. That is without telling a lie Mr Corbyn.

Councils traditionally provided care homes, after all, the councils fund many people in them. Its only in recent times that the councils have contracted out to private homes on a large scale.

I can't see anything else negative in what you say other than I don't understand the necessity for low carbon power, Jeremy could do with listening to his brother on that one.

Banks as you know make very large profits.

Oh come on granny, we can all cherry pick from statements made by both sides, Terry May won't rule out income tax hikes, right after that statement Michael Fallon and Boris are saying there will be no tax rises not for the top 5% ??? who is running the Tory ship the 1922 committee? perhaps they all follow her to see whats she's going to do or say next, the best one is there aren't any money trees, in her response to the nurse last night, perhaps someone should have reminded her that this Island of ours is a great big money tree for the hedge fund merchants and the tax evaders.

Not cherry picking, Casper. Asking questions and you haven't given any answers !

Where is the money coming from i.e. £250 billion to set the bank up ?