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Its not like you to dismiss something this serious without giving it maximum thought DD, sorry but I have to disagree, designed on a fag packet it may have been but the result was exactly what he wanted, maximum publicity, you say it was an irrational action, yet it was quite similar to the attack on Fusilier Rigby, the use of a vehicle and a knife was this then another irrational action? carried out by two other nutters or was it an act of terrorism, well we all know the answer to that, I remember back to the IRA bombing campaign when we as members of HM forces we were advised to check our vehicles for devices after being left unattended, this is part and parcel of the distrust caused by terrorist action basically to have everyone looking over their shoulders, do you not think a lot of people are now doing the same its human nature fear of the unknown, so yes I think he made his impact

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If the same happened in Grimsby town centre it would have the same amount of publicity as this has in London, except the perpetrator might well have still been alive and many more people in the country would be in fear of something happening in their area.

Yes a lot of impact has been made but it could have been a lot more if he'd bothered to think about the basics of terrorism hence my disbelief.

I don't know if you have seen the Theresa May evacuation from parliament, it looked like a clown show from Billy Wright's circus. God help us if we have some serious terrorists in the country if that was the performance of our (top?) security services. She had zero body cover and was left to wander around in circles, then the driver showed total uncertainty and was obviously leaving without a lead car.

In the Lee Rigby case, there was a specific target of terror - the military forces, not the general public.


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I certainly agree with you on the evacuation from parliament of the icon of Vogue magazine, it was a shambles.

I also think the showing of that footage shows another lapse in security and shouldn't have been shown, and highlights a weakness in the system.

However I still disagree that if this incident had happened in Grimsby that it would have had the same impact, the emphasis here has been the attack on parliament and our so called democracy, and therefore an attack on the Crown.

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Well I think the security services did great and obviously being real life not a movie , nerves will make for errors but all in all Think she was evacuated very well. I hope now that security and police officers are made to wear stab vests at all times on duty, and very strong Taser guns. Too late for poor PC Palmer.

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Apart from the tragic loss of life , injuries, psychological damage to the children, and others who will no doubt be looking over their shoulders for many years to come. The obvious lack or confusion of security measures mentioned in relation to Mrs May and her exit from the Houses of Parliament,(although I didn't view it),including the fact that London is on High Alert and has been for a long while, it would seem that security have not adhered to any training for High Alert procedures, and he has had a big impact even though he alone was armed with a knife and a vehicle.

Why wasn't the policeman who died armed , as he was in a pretty important placement of position ? Why were the gates open ? Why were there no other security in the immediate area of his access point ? Westminster possibly thought it would never happen here !! Well it did.

There is another casualty too. His mother ! Although not having had contact for twenty years (according to the media reports) she has lost a son because he became an extremist ,and guilty of killing others. The pain ,anguish and probably guilt she must be carrying through her sons actions, must also be devastating.

ISIS have said they are responsible, and maybe got a grip of him when in prison. On the other hand ISIS might just be talking shit, to create a terror campaign. He may have been recruited at a very low level having got mixed up with the wrong types.

If it had been a significant intention by ISIS to harm Westminster and civilians, why no gun, or explosives ?

I personally think he was a man who has not been in total control of his actions for many years and would agree that he was a nutcase filled with anger. Isn't that the type of person that ISIS recruit in many cases i.e. people with weaknesses ?

He has had a huge impact which has raised the profile of ISIS yet again. The media have made a meal out of a situation and at the same time raised the 'anti' feelings that are running through this country like a fever to another level.

Mission accomplished . They could easily start to retaliate in defence !


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ISIS don't have to "recruit" they are not always organised with distinct chains of command. Its very possible that the London nutter was not "part" of ISIS in any way and may never had had any contact with them other than reading watching their ideology on internet. "brainwashed" to some extent ..but then most of us are to some degree or another without realising it. What wicks me off with this guy is that he was born here, benefited from our society and still wanted to smack the hand that fed him. Can understand some muslim from another land coming here for revenge.
I doubt we would have had the same media coverage if it had been a white uk male with mental illness carrying out exactly the same scenario. There was an incident few years back in London where a big black guy stormed his way through back gardens smashing down fences killing an old lady and getting shot dead one garden away from young children. Half a day media coverage because he had not taken his medicine for a while.
Proud to be British !!

Andrew Neils speech Poundland Terrorist in an estate car...

andrew neil churchillian speech




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Originally Posted by cools
Well I think the security services did great and obviously being real life not a movie , nerves will make for errors but all in all Think she was evacuated very well. I hope now that security and police officers are made to wear stab vests at all times on duty, and very strong Taser guns. Too late for poor PC Palmer.


Have you seen the video of May's evacuation? Unless the car had run her over it couldn't have been much worse.

PC Palmer was wearing a stab vest which shows that they don't make a lot of difference in real life scenarios.

Originally Posted by casper
However I still disagree that if this incident had happened in Grimsby that it would have had the same impact, the emphasis here has been the attack on parliament and our so called democracy, and therefore an attack on the Crown.


Well I feel at zero extra threat because of this incident, I also think the risk to parliament was minimal and feel no extra threat to parliament. When the IRA was bombing relatively indiscriminate targets everyone felt that their safety was threatened, I avoided numerous places including Chester.


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The Police have now stated that he acted alone and his motives may never be known. Which is what I was saying, all the talk of terrorism by the media was 100% wild guesswork to make a good story.

The "terror" was created by the media even though this was an abominable act.

SOURCE


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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The Police have now stated that he acted alone and his motives may never be known. Which is what I was saying, all the talk of terrorism by the media was 100% wild guesswork to make a good story.

The "terror" was created by the media even though this was an abominable act.

SOURCE


Wouldn't go as far as saying 100% guesswork given the other recent vehicle attacks and being a year to the day. The running into Westminster and stabbing a PC suggests a possible political motive but as you say as possible just a lone wolf copycat nutter with no real orchestrated organisation behind it. I would be more worried about drunk drivers ---

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So in the space of a couple of days the police can say he acted alone and they have no motive for the attack, wow that's excellent work, a story put forward by the same media that created the alleged terror attack story, well it must be a relief for the security services and the police to have it all sorted in such a short space of time.

Just a point on stab vests, I read there was a ISIS article published on the web on how to fatally attack someone wearing a stab vest, body armour and stab vests mainly protect vital organs but like everything the have their weakness.

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It also turns out the guy is frequently violent and off his head on crack cocaine and acid and has threatened people with knives before.


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DD In one breath you say you don't believe the media and in the next you're quoting the Guardian, saying he was a druggie who liked to play with knives, how do you know this is not some cock n bull by the paper to sell more, it's not like a newspaper to tell lies is it wink



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Various sources used and they quoted a number of names, not just ghost reporting as is often the case.


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Its usually this type of person they recruit, weak minded individuals with a criminal background or easily influenced kids, this stems from their dislike of authority whom they blame for their lifestyles and also the belief that they are unfairly treated, so they are given a cause in with to channel their hatred a way to get even or strike back, with the reward of 72 virgins at the end of it, bet they are well pissed when they find out its all lies.

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