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Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: Kylix] #1027880
1st Jan 2017 5:35pm
1st Jan 2017 5:35pm
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ghostly1 Offline OP
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Great pics Kylix, thanks for sharing :-)

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Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: ghostly1] #1029660
28th Jan 2017 3:57pm
28th Jan 2017 3:57pm
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techgran Offline
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So many unanswered questions! Where is the original latin document that the poem was translated from?
How did F. G. Slater (translater - Onetime vicar of Ince) get a copy of it?
How can we see it now?
I have been interested in this topic since at least 1989 when I first found a copy of the English version in a local Wirral History book (not sure which one).

Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: techgran] #1029662
28th Jan 2017 4:35pm
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granny Offline
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For the poem, see references at the bottom of this link. No 8, it might help.

http://rcchep.co.uk/stbernards_history.php


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: techgran] #1029663
28th Jan 2017 4:45pm
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granny Offline
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They moved at some point to Whalley Abbey in Lancashire.

https://archive.org/stream/historyoforigina00whituoft#page/n9/mode/2up/search/stanlaw

Plenty of mentions of Stanlaw here. See the orange things at the bottom.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: granny] #1029675
28th Jan 2017 7:22pm
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techgran Offline
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Thanks Granny. Will investigate that link further and report back if anyone's interested.

Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: techgran] #1029676
28th Jan 2017 8:16pm
28th Jan 2017 8:16pm
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granny Offline
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: techgran] #1029678
28th Jan 2017 9:27pm
28th Jan 2017 9:27pm
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granny Offline
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and this. Masses of information and too much to take in at once. There could be possible clues to who wrote the poem or when but I don't see anything mentioned anywhere specifically about a poem. Of course any possessions could have eventually gone to Lichfield. One monk went to Oxford. Maybe following Rev. F G Slater could take you on a tour where he may have found it.
Good luck, and I hope you do come back with some more information. That would be good for everyone. smile

http://www.british-History.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol2/pp131-139#anchorn43


Last edited by granny; 28th Jan 2017 9:27pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: granny] #1029692
29th Jan 2017 1:47pm
29th Jan 2017 1:47pm
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techgran Offline
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Thanks Granny for all your efforts. This search is becoming an obsession. I got a copy of F.G.Slater's 'Cheshire Parish....Ince' from the library but of the poem not a mention!
I have downloaded Ormerod and will go through it again but so far no luck. Have also scanned thro' relevant bits of Whitaker; same result. Have now involved a friend in the search so here's hoping. Will keep you posted.

Last edited by techgran; 29th Jan 2017 1:48pm.
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: techgran] #1029704
29th Jan 2017 6:04pm
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granny Offline
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Just one thing I wonder about is the rhyming of the poem, considering the supposed date as I'm not sure what language the Abbey's monks and Abbots would have used.

Last edited by granny; 29th Jan 2017 6:06pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: granny] #1029715
29th Jan 2017 7:01pm
29th Jan 2017 7:01pm
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techgran Offline
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It was translated from Latin which is why I'm so keen to see the original. If you translate into English and make it rhyme then you have to alter the original somewhat.

Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: techgran] #1029716
29th Jan 2017 7:16pm
29th Jan 2017 7:16pm
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granny Offline
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That's what I would have thought. At the same time, was it Latin ? We know the Bible was written in Latin, but according to this, there was a bit of a muddle going on with language and text. French, Anglo Saxon, Germanic,

http://www.thehistoryofenglish.com/history_middle.html


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: granny] #1029733
29th Jan 2017 8:55pm
29th Jan 2017 8:55pm
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techgran Offline
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No. Definitely Latin. In one of the texts I read (I've read so many!) it said F.G.Slater translated it from the Latin. A lot of the text in Ormerod and Whitaker is all in Latin.

Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: ghostly1] #1029734
29th Jan 2017 9:28pm
29th Jan 2017 9:28pm
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There were also quite a few English Lyrics/verses handwritten at Stanlow Abbey which are generally thought to may be translations of earlier unknown documents. So middle English and Latin were used there.

Documents from Stanlow Abbey seem to be spread around (British Library, Lambeth Palace Library) but the move to Whalley Abbey has probably muddied the source/location for many others.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

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Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: diggingdeeper] #1029739
29th Jan 2017 10:06pm
29th Jan 2017 10:06pm
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granny Offline
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So pleased you have joined us DD. I'm getting more and more confused.
When they went to Whalley Abbey, there was an old Abbott Robert de Haworth (who had been there for about 25yrs) and 5 monks left at Stanlaw. It later became a grange to Whalley Abbey until the reformation

Originally, Stanlaw Abbey had been 'colonised' from Combermere Abbey .Combermere being the mother Abbey to Stanlaw and Whalley Abbey's.

From the end of the 13th century, the monks were transferred
So, the poem could have been written anytime up to 1535.

Then Combermere was sold by the Cotton family , who had owned the Abbey and estate since the Dissolution, in 1919. It says almost all the archives were dispersed. The time Rev.F.G Slater was writing his books etc.

http://www.combermere-restoration.co.uk/further-research/

Rev. Slater also wrote a manuscript/chants book. Maybe this is when the poem turned up, from the records of Combermere.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/a7771ba4-22f4-4c42-ba15-cb52d276c0a9

When reading this below, the poem seems to take on the very essence of the secluded, remote life they must have lead. It really is quite beautiful and passionate.


https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1011117

The Cistercians - or "white monks", on account of their undyed habits - led a harsher life than earlier monastic orders, believing in the virtue of a life of austerity, prayer and manual labour. Seeking seclusion, they founded their houses in wild and remote areas where they undertook major land improvement projects. Their communities were often very large and included many lay brethren who acted as ploughmen, dairymen, shepherds, carpenters and masons. The Cistercians' skills as farmers eventually made the order one of the richest and most influential. They were especially successful in the rural north of England where they concentrated on sheep farming. The Cistercians made a major contribution to many facets of medieval life and all of their monasteries which exhibit significant surviving archaeological remains are worthy of protection.

Last edited by granny; 29th Jan 2017 10:16pm.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: Stanlow Abbey [Re: techgran] #1029743
30th Jan 2017 12:09am
30th Jan 2017 12:09am
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granny Offline
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http://www.ucl.ac.uk/History/research/english-monastic-archives


Monastic Database.

Look under 'Browse by House' & Whalley and Stanlaw.


Last edited by granny; 30th Jan 2017 12:10am.

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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