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#334563 - 6th Jul 2009 9:12pm Taylors Villas 1874 any info?
derekdwc Online   content


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4983
Loc: Birkenhead
anybody have any info on them
It is a sign on the wall of the Greek Taverna over the road from the main library in Borough Rd


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#334586 - 6th Jul 2009 10:55pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
davew3 Offline
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Registered: 16th Jun 2009
Posts: 1024
Loc: Wirral
On that side of Borough Road it had some shops and houses and a Pub called the Happy Valley and a Chinese laundry and from memory that was a side street with about four terraced houses,then when they knocked down all the way down that side of Borough road for road widening 2 of the terraced houses were knock down and the other 2 houses were turned into the taverna.

I know that's not much help ,most of the town centre was getting vandalised by the council at about the same time.

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#1028373 - 10th Jan 2017 3:19pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
soreofhing Offline


Registered: 10th Jan 2017
Posts: 2
Loc: México
Hi Derek
This type of house with the end facing the road was not uncommon in the late 19th century.
I had some distant relatives living at Taylors Villas, 300 Borough Road during the 1901 census:

Joseph Young, head, widower, 59, joiner carp., born Liverpool Anna Young, daughter, single, 20, scholar, born Liverpool James Young, son, 14, single, scholar, born Liverpool Joseph Young, grandson, 4, born Liverpool

Best regards from Mexico

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#1028383 - 10th Jan 2017 5:12pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
Norton Online   Reading

Smartchild

Registered: 29th Sep 2011
Posts: 608
Loc: Wallasey
I've always been a bit puzzled about this.

As a lad, we always called them 'Taylors Villas'. They sat almost opposite the Library, between the Happy Valley Pub and Tetbury Street. They were the only properties around that didn't have their front door steps right on the pavement, because they had front bay windows and a small sandstone wall at the edge of the pavement, on top of which was a wooden fence. Between the wall and house there were black and red quarry tiles.

The 1875 OS map calls them 'Taylor's Terrace', but I'm sure that it was written as 'Taylors Villas' and carved in the sandstone between the windows.

In the phase of road widening that caused their demolition, I think that the pavement outside the houses is where the central reservation is now, and so the space where they stood is now carriageway.

When the roadwork was completed, I was surprised to see the 'Taylors Villas' stone on the side of the building that became the Greek Taverna, in Tetbury Street. Part of the reason for this is that Tetbury Street ran straight down to Borough Road. It has been truncated, and what was once a small road or passageway, by Richmond Cottages, around the back of the Brewery, has taken its name on its way to the Taverna. (Out of interest, they did something similar with Sailsbury street.)

The attached pictures show the Happy Valley Pub on the left and Tetbury Street on the right, with the Villas just left of centre.
On the picture with the Buses, look between them as that is the from of one of the houses.

The map is centred on 331400, 388300 if you want to follow it through time on another site.


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Taylors Villas (2).jpg

Description: 1875 os map.



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#1028385 - 10th Jan 2017 6:40pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: Norton]
bert1 Offline

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Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7864
Loc: tranmere
Joseph Young did live at 300 Borough Rd, that wasn't Taylor's Villa's. Taylor's Terrace ran from 316 to 330 Borough rd, Taylor's Villa's followed, 1911 Directory below.

The 1881 census has not recorded Taylor's Terrace by name but by numbers, Taylor's Villa's are recorded by name, consisting of 2 properties, they appear to have no Borough Rd numbers.


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tvillas.PNG




Edited by bert1 (10th Jan 2017 6:41pm)
_________________________
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Don't send Jesus,
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#1028387 - 10th Jan 2017 8:36pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: bert1]
locomotive Online   content
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Registered: 18th Dec 2013
Posts: 231
Loc: Upton, Wirral
The 1912 OS map shows 5 properties and a Pub set back slightly from the road. When I was small there was the Happy Valley Pub on the corner of Carnforth St, the opposite corner was Inghams, (used to buy jeans there)they sold everything. I think there was another couple of shops including the chinese laundry then Claud Clark's garage, I don't remember another Pub. The 1912 map does show a large house at the bottom of Oak Bank next door to the Pub, I don't know what that was. I used to play on the bomb sites there just after the war, no Mr Health and Mr Safety in those happy days

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#1028388 - 10th Jan 2017 8:53pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
derekdwc Online   content


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4983
Loc: Birkenhead
1950s map may fit in with Norton's explanation
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taylor.jpg




Edited by derekdwc (10th Jan 2017 8:59pm)

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#1028528 - 11th Jan 2017 9:04pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
locomotive Online   content
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Registered: 18th Dec 2013
Posts: 231
Loc: Upton, Wirral
I've just realised, the big house belonged to Claud Clark's garage, in the mid 60s when I was racing motorbikes.,I was going to drive overnight up north, (no M62 in those days) but I'd dropped a clanger and didn't fill my car up, there weren't many all night garages then and the one opposite the tunnel entrance was unusually shut, so I took a chance and went and knocked Claud Clark up at about 12.30 am, after he'd thrown the sash window up and shouted a few choice words, I very cautiously asked could I have some petrol please, Mr Clark, Sir. He said how much and I said fill it up, he said "down in a minute" and I bought (from Memory) 9 or 10 gallons, I had a 1960 Morris Oxford estate with a huge tank and two filler caps, one either side, so the big house was definitely his. Without going too far off topic didn't Crellins have a yard somewhere in that area?[b][/b] .

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#1028947 - 17th Jan 2017 10:12pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
marty99fred Offline

Smartchild

Registered: 11th Mar 2009
Posts: 464
Loc: Pensby
This one is a bit of a puzzle. Based on the OS maps and Trade Directories I had always assumed that Taylors Villas were the pair of properties that were built at some point to occupy the tiny plot of land available behind numbers 320-330 Borough Road; certainly there only ever seems to have been two of them. Not that I remember them at all, as they were almost completely hidden from sight even when passing by on the top deck of a double decker; their existence was probably known only to their occupants, the postman and the rent collector!

Norton, however, remembers Taylors Villas as the houses named as Taylors Terrace on the map in his post. The problem with this is that Taylors Terrace is recorded in the 1871 Census and appears in adverts in local newspapers as 'Taylors Terrace, Happy Valley, Birkenhead' as early as June 1869, which would make a 'datestone' of 1874 for them rather unlikely. The first photo below shows the properties in 1934 during the opening of the new Central Library, and even examining it closely I can't see any sign of an inscription on the front (though it is somewhat hard to tell given all of the bunting, etc). On the other hand, the map in Norton's post is recorded as having been surveyed by the OS in 1875, and quite clearly does not show the two additional properties to the rear of the terrace.

Unfortunately there don't appear to be any entries for Borough Road in Gore's Directories for 1874 and 1875, but the 1876 edition lists both Taylors Terrace and nos. 1 & 2 Taylors Villas, suggesting that the two 'villas' could well have been under construction in 1874. Perhaps the 'Surveyed' date of 1875 assigned to the sheets of the large scale OS maps of Birkenhead from which Norton's extract comes should be taken more as a date when the overall survey of the town was completed, rather than being an exact survey date for each individual map sheet?...

Which leaves one further problem. If the Taylors Villas datestone belongs on the building it now adorns, where was it in 1983 when the other photos below of the semi-derelict Taylors Villas were taken. There doesn't seem to be any sign of it anywhere on the buildings...


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TT1.jpg

TV1.jpg

TV2.jpg

TV3.jpg



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#1028963 - 18th Jan 2017 6:01am Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 9890
Loc: Birkenhead
I guess the plaque was either on the front wall/entrance of Taylor's Villas before it got butchered or it was created when the Greek Taverna building was built (or re-built)?
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1029029 - 18th Jan 2017 6:54pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: diggingdeeper]
derekdwc Online   content


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Registered: 13th Oct 2008
Posts: 4983
Loc: Birkenhead
Wonder who Taylor was?
Possibly he was the landlord for Taylors Terrace and he/she and family may have lived in Taylors Villas. I think if you owned buildings you could name them as you wanted.
or he/she was a personage in Birkenhead who may have been involved in how streets/roads were named.
Who was/is responsible for the naming of streets/roads/buildings then and now?


Edited by derekdwc (18th Jan 2017 7:02pm)

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#1029030 - 18th Jan 2017 7:04pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: marty99fred]
Norton Online   Reading

Smartchild

Registered: 29th Sep 2011
Posts: 608
Loc: Wallasey
Well, I think my sister and I need our little memory cells tweaking, as we both thought the same thing about the name and location.

marty99fred summed it up in his third paragraph, concerning survey and publication dates, so I did a little more looking. I'd seen the 1875 map with the Terrace but without the two Villas and I thought I'd seen an earlier map with the Terrace and two Villas. I think one of the folders may have the wrong date on it, so I'll reserve judgement on that.

It is interesting to note that the dotted line around the properties, marked 'FP', is also the Ward Boundary as well as a picket fence, footpath or fire plug. This means that at the time, they would have been in Tranmere and not in Birkenhead, and so do not appear on the same census enumeration sheets for Borough Road as the properties either side did.

Now, what about the big house in the middle of the block - number 332? I knew it as Len Turners motorcycles ( before they moved to New Chester Road); Locomotive knew it as Claude Clark's garage, where you could also buy petrol, and one old census has it as a cycle manufacturer. I'd be getting on or off a bus there and never think to look just up the side of it where the Villas were - and then it was gone with just advertising hoardings in its place.

Are there any more photo's of that block that can be shared?

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#1029043 - 18th Jan 2017 9:00pm Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: Norton]
locomotive Online   content
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Registered: 18th Dec 2013
Posts: 231
Loc: Upton, Wirral
Len Turner's Motorbike shop was on the library side of Borough road, the building is still there, Len's was next door to the cobblers, I remember sitting outside the shop on my AJS looking at the new Hondas in the showroom, saying to my mates "They'll never catch on", ah well, so much for my judgement.

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#1029080 - 19th Jan 2017 6:40am Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: derekdwc]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7864
Loc: tranmere
Originally Posted By: derekdwc
Wonder who Taylor was?
Possibly he was the landlord for Taylors Terrace and he/she and family may have lived in Taylors Villas. I think if you owned buildings you could name them as you wanted.
or he/she was a personage in Birkenhead who may have been involved in how streets/roads were named.
Who was/is responsible for the naming of streets/roads/buildings then and now?


1881 census, the building was occupied by Thomas Taylor, Ships carpenter and family, likely to be related to the owner or builder?


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taylor's villas 1881.PNG


_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#1029081 - 19th Jan 2017 7:14am Re: Taylors Villas 1874 any info? [Re: Norton]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7864
Loc: tranmere
Originally Posted By: Norton
Well, I think my sister and I need our little memory cells tweaking, as we both thought the same thing about the name and location.

marty99fred summed it up in his third paragraph, concerning survey and publication dates, so I did a little more looking. I'd seen the 1875 map with the Terrace but without the two Villas and I thought I'd seen an earlier map with the Terrace and two Villas. I think one of the folders may have the wrong date on it, so I'll reserve judgement on that.

It is interesting to note that the dotted line around the properties, marked 'FP', is also the Ward Boundary as well as a picket fence, footpath or fire plug. This means that at the time, they would have been in Tranmere and not in Birkenhead, and so do not appear on the same census enumeration sheets for Borough Road as the properties either side did.

Now, what about the big house in the middle of the block - number 332? I knew it as Len Turners motorcycles ( before they moved to New Chester Road); Locomotive knew it as Claude Clark's garage, where you could also buy petrol, and one old census has it as a cycle manufacturer. I'd be getting on or off a bus there and never think to look just up the side of it where the Villas were - and then it was gone with just advertising hoardings in its place.

Are there any more photo's of that block that can be shared?


332, 1938 directory,
Central Cycle & Gramophone Company, cycle agents.


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_________________________
God help us,
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Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


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