WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Statistics
Posts1,006,651
Topics74,481
Members12,698
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs27
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
64 registered members (11kendo, 15 invisible), 1,142 guests, and261 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
Two people and a car
by cools. 13th Aug 2018 3:47pm
How do Breasts Have So Much Power ?
by granny. 5th Aug 2018 4:33pm
Where's this?
by venice. 5th Aug 2018 3:24am
HAPPY BIRTHDAY
by rocks. 4th Aug 2018 11:25am
New Wirral History
Birkenhead Market.
by venice. 4th Aug 2018 7:54pm
1970's Murder in Central Park, Wallasey
by cutespam. 4th Aug 2018 11:28am
Clatterbridge workhouse
by venice. 4th Aug 2018 11:22am
Sir Thomas Massey Stanley 1841
by bliplandy. 1st Aug 2018 2:57pm
Listed buildings site
by derekdwc. 23rd Jul 2018 9:08pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
No more bridge, never be the same
Over Exposed Crash Site
Topic Replies
More threats to Wirral's Green Belt
by venice. 20th Aug 2018 9:26pm
Any old adidas predator football boots?
by Shaunmca123. 20th Aug 2018 9:19am
Opticians and Glasses
by diggingdeeper. 19th Aug 2018 11:54pm
What song are you listening to?
by casper. 19th Aug 2018 9:47am
Cannondale
by Thorwalker. 18th Aug 2018 8:48pm
Golf clubs for sale
by TheComputerLab. 18th Aug 2018 6:38pm
Fly out 330 compact mower
by TheComputerLab. 18th Aug 2018 6:34pm
Dog harness
by Thorwalker. 18th Aug 2018 3:08pm
Girls school shoes
by Thorwalker. 18th Aug 2018 3:06pm
August
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
The Duke of Lancaster
by Gibbo. 7th Aug 2018 11:23am
Ness Gardens Fun Day
by granny. 3rd Aug 2018 1:39pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 2 1 2
RSPCA at it againt they do a good job #1025900
16th Nov 2016 12:34pm
16th Nov 2016 12:34pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
Whilst no doubt they do a good job it seems too often they are getting power mad.
2 Globe stories this week showing both sides of the RSPCA plus a main stream article about removing their powers.

Local lady who had done voluntary work with animals had own dog take ill (ear tumour). Dutifully she took it vets to get treatment which obviously didn't work. Not wanting to have the dog put down (financial concerns) she let the problem take its natural course trying to treat it herself. Someone (probably the Vet-as the ear tumour was not visible to public) contacted the RSPCA. Judge said if you don't have pet insurance you shouldn't have a pet. Our vet said it wasn't worth us getting insurance and we might not get it because our kitten already had cat flu.

The other story I agree with the RSPCA. A dog owner tried to euthanize his own dog in a horrible way. Had he been able to shoot it through the head it might have been considered humane.

Main Stream Media...RSPCA should be stripped of prosecution powers, say MPs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37987213

Google Ads
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025902
16th Nov 2016 12:54pm
16th Nov 2016 12:54pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,817
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,817
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by fish5133
Local lady who had done voluntary work with animals had own dog take ill (ear tumour). Dutifully she took it vets to get treatment which obviously didn't work. Not wanting to have the dog put down (financial concerns) she let the problem take its natural course trying to treat it herself.


I guess you haven't seen the picture of the state the dog was in, she had been "treating" it with water, it suffered for a long period of time. The whole ear canal was affected, it was full of pus and stinking.

This is not a nice picture ....

[Linked Image]



In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025906
16th Nov 2016 1:41pm
16th Nov 2016 1:41pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 281
wirral
L
lincle Offline
Addict
lincle  Offline
Addict
L
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 281
wirral
No excuses ! No finances! Not good enough,the PDSA will always help an animal in pain. There are just to many sad cases of neglect & cruelty. Can someone out there tell me who is going to ensure that these heartless people stick to the ban or are the courts & RSPCA just fighting a losing battle. I do agree though that unless you have a date of birth for your pet,not easily done with rescues or your pet has an ongoing condition then its almost impossible to get insurance.

Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025907
16th Nov 2016 1:42pm
16th Nov 2016 1:42pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
Morning DD I have seen the picture--ive got 650 of them sitting on my driveway which unfortunately I cant deliver. The treatment from the vet didn't clear it--what else is she supposed to do. Spend hundreds/thousands of pounds more in vet fees with no guarantees of clearing it.I know how difficult it is to decide to put your pet down and its a matter of opinion to let nature takes it course. Who decides if pets should live or die. Of course the RSPCA man will say what he said because they have taken her to court. Did they get the dog treated no--they put it down.
I could show you an equally nasty picture of my big toe --was painful and full of stinking pus been hospital been docs had some treatment (antibiotics) but not clearing--last advice from GP leave it open to the air and wash in sterile (salt) water. Been like that for 2 months. Hopefully the wife wont have me put down. Joking apart there,s too many stories coming out of over zealous RSPCA just seeking prosecutions. Perhaps all the funding the RSPCA get should be redirected to the PDSA who actually treat animals.

This one highlights the bad press

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-Pig-and-the-truth-about-the-RSPCA.html

Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025929
16th Nov 2016 8:07pm
16th Nov 2016 8:07pm
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,531
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,531
wirral
Selected incidents like these are not a good basis on which to make decisions.

The RSPCA has money coming out of its ears, and in my opinion should restrict itself to its animal work. It can, like anyone else, refer cases of cruelty to the police and the CPS will do the prosecution if there is a good chance of securing a conviction.

I worry that in a case of Bloggs v the RSPCA, that Bloggs doesn't stand a chance, such is its wealth and reputation. That is manifestly unjust and should be stopped.

Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025930
16th Nov 2016 8:24pm
16th Nov 2016 8:24pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,386
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,386
Wirral
Quote fish "what else is she supposed to do. Spend hundreds/thousands of pounds more in vet fees with no guarantees of clearing it ?"

Lack of money doesnt excuse someone from allowing obvious suffering to continue, ( animals' ears are exceptionally sensitive so that dog must have been hurting a lot) You make your choice - you find beg or borrow the money to continue a treatment, or you find beg or borrow the money to have it put to sleep humanely.

When insurance isnt available , you can minimize cost impact by putting money regularly into a 'pet vet' account till needed. Still a problem though if you havent been saving long.

I do think we need the RSPCA to be able to prosecute, but
agree some of the prosecutions now seem to be badly prepared and over the top - that needs sorting out .It loses them credibility.

As for the article wanting to let supporters know that the RSPCA pts a lot of dogs every year ..... Well people must be living in cloud cuckooland if they think animal rescue funds can stretch to supporting every stray animal for ever and ever. Yes there are no kill shelters, but they couldnt all be like that or there would be too many stray and cruelty cases left with no-where to go for their chance of a new life.

(Since only a relatively small number of unwanted animals are adopted, I bet that to save and support every unwanted one, ,youd soon need many aircraft hanger size blocks of kennels/cat rooms, in every county - the need really is that big)

Ex - do we have proof that RSPCA still has money coming out of its ears -

Last edited by venice; 16th Nov 2016 8:36pm.
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025938
16th Nov 2016 8:58pm
16th Nov 2016 8:58pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,386
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,386
Wirral
Quote fish

" I could show you an equally nasty picture of my big toe --was painful and full of stinking pus Been like that for 2 months. *Hopefully the wife wont have me put down

*should we take a poll on it ? laugh - (some of his jokes are painful too! )

Last edited by venice; 16th Nov 2016 9:01pm.
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025939
16th Nov 2016 9:20pm
16th Nov 2016 9:20pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
Quote
Lack of money doesnt excuse someone from allowing obvious suffering to continue

Why should an animal be put down just because its suffering

Do we put children down when they are born with conditions that will cause them to suffer to some degree for the rest of their life.
In the pet world unlike our own there is the option to euthanize--it should be an option not compulsory on fear of fine and prosecution and being stigmatized with "cruelty".
I am not talking about the idiot in the other story who tried to kill his dog with a spade.
When our little kitten was suffering in its last days. We didn't know how long he would last and agreed amongst ourselves we would not have him put down. If some RSPCA officer had called round in their pseudo police uniform and try and take it away to be put down I doubt they would have got out the house without a struggle (and I am not an aggressive person).
There are grey areas of subjective suffering. Did they say to the woman we feel you dog is suffering and think it should be put down or was it right lets take this dog and prosecute.
Would the RSPCA prosecute this friend of mine for catching and releasing this fish and then catching and releasing the same fish the following week when the ulcer whatever had burst. ? Its subjective.



Attached Files pike with tumour.jpgpike burst tumour.jpg
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025940
16th Nov 2016 9:21pm
16th Nov 2016 9:21pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,348
Wirral
C
cools Offline
Forum Master
cools  Offline
Forum Master
C
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,348
Wirral
From what I've read and watched on TV (Animal Rescuers) I think they do a good job. These animals have no voice so they speak for them. How anybody can think it OK to batter a dog to death with a spade they deserve all that can be thrown at them.Venice is right if there is no hope for the poor animal do the decent thing and let the vet put it out of its misery, you have to find the money for this.

Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025942
16th Nov 2016 9:38pm
16th Nov 2016 9:38pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,386
Wirral
V
venice Offline

Forum Guardian
venice  Offline

Forum Guardian
V
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,386
Wirral
"To some degree" -- thats important . I wasnt having a go about your mog,fish some sick animals do just slip away with minimum degree of discomfort - he didnt look particulary distressed just almost out of it. I do think its very different when observation and commonsense tells you that an animal is in acute and chronic pain like the dog with the ear.

As for comparing with sick children with severe disabilities - the courts dont allow parents to insist on letting a severly handicapped child live child live if doctors agree the condition is too cruel to bear and theres nothing more that can be done. For children in pain, they wouldnt be allowed home to suffer without continued treatment.

The fish is not really comparable as its not owned by your mate - but if it was me , Id have been telling the fisheries owner about it to find out more about whatever was wrong with the fish and in the light of what he found out, consider destroying it if it was a nasty that would just worsen with time.

Certainly dont think the RSPCA should just 'take' animals without due discussion with the owners first , but should overide owners wishes if considered veterinary advice advocated it.

Last edited by venice; 16th Nov 2016 9:48pm.
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025943
16th Nov 2016 9:53pm
16th Nov 2016 9:53pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,817
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,817
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by fish5133
Joking apart there,s too many stories coming out of over zealous RSPCA just seeking prosecutions.


No, the RSPCA are an easy target for cheap news, the full and truthful story is very rarely given. The RSPCA usually only prosecute for gross negligence or when the owner is non-cooperative, they do not prosecute every time they find an animal needing treatment (but the press would lead you to believe otherwise).

In this case the vet had said the dog should be put down and the owner agreed, she just never did it nor attempted to do it.

If she had contacted the RSPCA, PDSA or even her own vets a solution would definitely have been found (I'll PM you details of this) but she chose to let the dog suffer.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: cools] #1025944
16th Nov 2016 10:11pm
16th Nov 2016 10:11pm
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
F
fish5133 Offline OP
Forum Guardian
fish5133  Offline OP
Forum Guardian
F
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,715
Heswallish
We don't know if their was "no hope" for this ladies dog. see those fish photos swimming around and still eating away.
My arguement is who is deciding if the animal is going through deliberate undue suffering. RSPCA make a decision which is tested in the courts and present there "expert" evidence to a judge who sees a nasty picture of a dogs ear..job done. Defendants cant afford legal representation and just take the fine. Now and again judges/cps see the ridiculous ness of the case and throw it out of court.
The lady had taken in to be treated but the treatment didn't work--(bet she didn't get her money back of the vet)

Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025945
16th Nov 2016 10:18pm
16th Nov 2016 10:18pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,817
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master
diggingdeeper  Offline

Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,817
Birkenhead
Originally Posted by fish5133
We don't know if their was "no hope" for this ladies dog. see those fish photos swimming around and still eating away.


The vet had stated that if the treatment didn't work the dog should be put down, the treatment clearly didn't work.

The owner said the reason she didn't have the animal put down was financial.

Therefore both the vet and the owner were in agreement that the dog should be put down.

Fish are cold blooded creatures and are a different case to mammals. That would have been a clever double entendre if I had intended it that way wink


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

We should judge our economy by the absence of poverty, not the number of billionaires - Jeremy Corbyn
Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025949
17th Nov 2016 10:16am
17th Nov 2016 10:16am
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,967
Oxton
Gibbo Online content
Forum Addict
Gibbo  Online Content
Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,967
Oxton
The RSPCA are useless. There's a large long haired Alsatian on my street that lives in a tiny back yard. Its never taken out for a walk, it lives outdoors all the time and shelters under some plastic sheeting. The yard is full of dog crap, but gets a tin of dog food every day.

Because it gets food and has "shelter" (I use the term very loosely) the RSPCA won't act against the ignorant owners who don't care about the animal's wellbeing.

Re: RSPCA at it againt they do a good job [Re: fish5133] #1025950
17th Nov 2016 10:40am
17th Nov 2016 10:40am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,531
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,531
wirral
The matter is not one of whether people who are cruel to animals should be prosecuted - they undoubtedly should - but rather one of who should do the prosecution.

The reason that the police do not do prosecutions, but rather the job is passed on to the CPS, is that the police - as pursuers of miscreants - are not seen as being impartial in bringing prosecutions.

Exactly the same is true of the RSPCA, and if they have found a case of animal cruelty, they are able to do exactly what you and I can do, and bring it to the attention of the police. They will investigate and collect evidence and pass it to the CPS to decide whether a prosecution is appropriate. There is no need for the RSPCA - as a special case - to be allowed to short-circuit police and CPS and prosecute themselves.

I suspect most people who support the RSPCA do so in the hope of rescuing animals, not prosecuting cruel owners. That is the job of the police and the CPS, not the RSPCA.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Finds from the last outing
by Detecting_wirral. 17th Aug 2018 7:08pm
Opticians and Glasses
by Moonstar. 15th Aug 2018 1:05pm
Need an earth strap fitting....
by gerrymoore. 13th Aug 2018 9:31am
paint mixing
by locomotive. 11th Aug 2018 8:52pm
Another plan for Birkenhead
by Norton. 10th Aug 2018 4:47pm
For Sale & Free
Any old adidas predator football boots?
by Shaunmca123. 20th Aug 2018 9:19am
Golf clubs for sale
by TheComputerLab. 18th Aug 2018 6:38pm
Fly out 330 compact mower
by TheComputerLab. 18th Aug 2018 6:34pm
Dog harness
by Thorwalker. 18th Aug 2018 3:08pm
Girls school shoes
by Thorwalker. 18th Aug 2018 3:06pm
Member Spotlight
Nigel
Nigel
Wirral
Posts: 851
Joined: March 2010
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Shaunmca123, ChesterMan, aaaaa0, kurto, DetectWirral79
12698 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
paint mixing
by locomotive. 11th Aug 2018 8:52pm
Water treatment plant Wrexham.
by venice. 8th Aug 2018 11:25am
Ness Gardens Fun Day
by granny. 3rd Aug 2018 1:39pm
Hanging a 11kg mirror on a dot and dab wall
by yr20405. 30th Jul 2018 9:29am
The Duke of Lancaster
by snowhite. 29th Jul 2018 8:50pm
News : New Topics
Another plan for Birkenhead
by Norton. 10th Aug 2018 4:47pm
Crucifixion
by diggingdeeper. 9th Aug 2018 10:34pm
Big Police Hunt Irby Pensby Thursaston
by fish5133. 8th Aug 2018 11:43pm
Trump on his pedestal.. again.
by granny. 3rd Aug 2018 1:48pm
Lost
by Kylix. 31st Jul 2018 4:24pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Finds from the last outing
by Detecting_wirral. 17th Aug 2018 7:08pm
Opticians and Glasses
by Moonstar. 15th Aug 2018 1:05pm
Need an earth strap fitting....
by gerrymoore. 13th Aug 2018 9:31am
Finds 08/08/18
by Detecting_wirral. 9th Aug 2018 8:16pm
Gadget for stopcock
by venice. 8th Aug 2018 12:50pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Mon 6:01am
Sunset Mon 8:29pm
Local Time Mon 11:03pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1