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#1021840 - 30th Sep 2016 8:50pm Child or spouse? Interesting question.
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2749
Loc: Wirral
"Should a 14-year-old married girl who migrates to Europe be viewed as a child - or a spouse?

The issue has put European governments in a spin: forcing a policy U-turn in Denmark, new legislation in the Netherlands and an agonised debate in Germany.

Analysts say early marriage is often carried out in refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey by families trying to protect girls from poverty or sexual exploitation. Elsewhere, poor families might marry off their young daughters in exchange for dowries.

The question is one of rights and protections - but which? When authorities stop minors cohabiting with their older spouses, are they combating child abuse or breaking up (often already traumatised) families?"

Source BBC News.

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#1021842 - 30th Sep 2016 9:00pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1349
Loc: wallasey
Well the answer is simple, just carry on and let them do as they please, our country seems happy enough with that arrangement, how many wives three sir certainly, sorry but it gets beyond a joke.

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#1021843 - 30th Sep 2016 9:17pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14437
Loc: Wirral
Well, I would say she's a child in the eyes of UK law , and if the age of consent in this country is 16yrs since 1885, then I can't see any reason why it should be changed for others now. Don't allow them in. That might change the policy of marrying their children off ,whatever the reason. (sometimes for cash, I am sure)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#1021844 - 30th Sep 2016 9:31pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: casper]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2749
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: casper
Well the answer is simple, just carry on and let them do as they please


So do we allow that 14 yr old girl to not attend school but force the unmarried one living next door to her , to go?

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#1021845 - 30th Sep 2016 9:41pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
dustymclean Offline

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Registered: 18th Sep 2013
Posts: 345
Loc: birkenhead
A man with more than one wife should be sectioned and a man with a fourteen year old wife should be hung.

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#1021846 - 30th Sep 2016 9:51pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2749
Loc: Wirral


" So do we allow that 14 yr old girl to not attend school but force the unmarried one living next door to her , to go? unquote."

And what if they split and there was a child - would she then at 14/15 be top of the queue for a council flat?


Your solution is quite radical Dusty !

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#1021847 - 30th Sep 2016 10:12pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10282
Loc: Birkenhead
Impossible problem to solve within current thinking. One tidy solution is for marriage only to be recognised within the country it is licensed. That way all non-English marriages would need to remarry within England if they want to be classed as administratively married when in England, no discrimination involved, the same rule would apply to everybody.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1021851 - 30th Sep 2016 10:29pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: diggingdeeper]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2749
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: diggingdeeper
Impossible problem to solve within current thinking. One tidy solution is for marriage only to be recognised within the country it is licensed. That way all non-English marriages would need to remarry within England if they want to be classed as administratively married when in England, no discrimination involved, the same rule would apply to everybody.



A good way if you're starting from scratch DD, but the problem remains as you say (and it HAS to be solved ) because the child IS in a married relationship (whether we recognize it legally or not) , so is probably emotionally and sexually tied to her husband , so a decision does have to be made as to whether to allow the relationship to continue out of compassion for their feelings , or whether to stop it, in order to not have to face reconciling the situation with our own laws and ways of thinking.





Edited by venice (30th Sep 2016 10:35pm)

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#1021853 - 30th Sep 2016 10:41pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10282
Loc: Birkenhead
If they want to live here, they would have to comply with our laws .... they couldn't bring their speed limit to this country, why should they bring their marriage?

Australia has been hot on this one for a long time.

We gave in to polygamy years ago and gave more rights to immigrants than nationals which is absurd.

We have the same problem where young (under 18) married couples travel abroad to where consent is over 18, you have to comply with the law of the country you are in, if you don't like it, don't go to that country - where is the problem?
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1021854 - 30th Sep 2016 10:41pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
Dilly Online   Reading
Wiki Veteran

Registered: 17th Jul 2011
Posts: 7900
Loc: wallasey
I would say the answer is simple. Our laws are for everyone and should not be bent for anyone. In my mind a 14 year old girl from whatever culture is still a child therefore we would be condoning child abuse.

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#1021856 - 30th Sep 2016 11:04pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
RUDEBOX Offline

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Registered: 29th Aug 2008
Posts: 19148
Loc: Here.
In the U.K, a 14 year old is a Child. Uphold U.K law.
_________________________
Mia Mabel

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! Jer-e-my Cor-byn


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#1021858 - 30th Sep 2016 11:15pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
cools Offline
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Registered: 16th Aug 2013
Posts: 1817
Loc: Wirral
Yes obey uk law and don't bring in your young wives. Deny them entry if they do not wish to observe our law. When in Rome and all that. Talking about 14 year old girl , how appalling that case of the poor schoolgirl abducted ar 8 25 in morning and raped at least twice. Ruined her childhood , hope they Catch the .... Sorry abit off topic I know..

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#1021859 - 30th Sep 2016 11:17pm Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: Dilly]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2749
Loc: Wirral
Ok , I do actually agree with most of you , just playing devils advocate since it is a discussion forum . So - do we take the 14yr old with her Baby and stick her in care since if she's a genuine refuge -say from Syria, she may not be able to be sent home?

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#1021860 - 1st Oct 2016 12:02am Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: venice]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14437
Loc: Wirral
No, because they don't divorce (I'm almost certain they don't, instead they can have 4 wives ) and umpteen children and claim every benefit plus more as men with numerous children get additional benefits. I suppose the women living on their own will also get benefits, but if still a child..... ?
It's about time the system was sorted. After all we as Christians are not allowed to even take a bible into any of these Muslim countries and we do have to live by their rules. No snogging on the beach etc.
Casper is right....let them have the bloody lot, I think we are tired of fighting for our survival and it won't be long before someone like Sadiq Khan will become Prime Minister. I bet he becomes leader of the Labour party in the not too distant future. Anyway, it's sure to happen , diversity and all that, then just see what will happen. A different country will emerge. Granny's will be having a great time, everyone one else will be in shackles and/or chastity belts, back to the middle ages and modern day crusades!


Edited by granny (1st Oct 2016 12:07am)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#1021864 - 1st Oct 2016 10:48am Re: Child or spouse? Interesting question. [Re: granny]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1349
Loc: wallasey
To change the law, would be absolute folly, in essence a child molesters charter, we have had enough of that here already, what type of a grown man would want to marry a child? this whole culture and religion thing needs rules that both protect the individual and the communities in which they live, honour killings, child marriages,incest,harems, FGM, is it reasonable to accept this into any civilised society ?

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