Our Success is in our members who value our strength as a valued community.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,019,705
Topics75,111
Members13,057
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs24
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
43 registered members (Adamthomas89, 7 invisible), 1,686 guests, and404 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
189 Hearth
New General Forums
Home Insurance Price Hike
by fish5133. 16th Aug 2019 6:08pm
Racism???
by casper. 16th Aug 2019 9:17am
Brexit 3 Way Polls
by diggingdeeper. 12th Aug 2019 10:07pm
The Ofsted Results Fiddle
by diggingdeeper. 23rd Jul 2019 5:49pm
New Wirral History
Arthur Christiansen, Daily Express editor
by yoller. 15th Aug 2019 7:37pm
Angus Tilston MBE - RIP
by Norton. 7th Aug 2019 1:47pm
Brattan Road Bombing WW2
by dingle. 2nd Aug 2019 1:53am
758 Withens Lane Sports & Social Club
by derekdwc. 29th Nov 2018 11:11pm
Finding my Uncle Peter Turnbull
by dingle. 23rd Nov 2018 11:41am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
Engine crane/hoist wanted - asap
by _Ste_. 22nd Aug 2019 12:38am
Park High School, Birkenhead
by diggingdeeper. 21st Aug 2019 10:11pm
What song are you listening to?
by diggingdeeper. 21st Aug 2019 9:15pm
Block Paving
by delta6. 21st Aug 2019 10:29am
Arthur Christiansen, Daily Express editor
by Excoriator. 19th Aug 2019 5:25pm
Hillbark Mystery
by _Ste_. 19th Aug 2019 1:26am
The lone house on Illchester Road
by _Ste_. 19th Aug 2019 12:41am
Hearth
by rocks. 18th Aug 2019 4:19pm
Samsung Gear S3 Frontier Smart Watch
by Catsick. 18th Aug 2019 3:33pm
August
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
The grand 1947 plan. #1016778
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
After the war, when Birkenhead had suffered quite a bit of bomb damage, allied to the fact that at that time there was a lot of poor quality housing, the Corporation commissioned a grand plan for the re-development of the town.
I'm fortunate to have a mint copy of this book, still in its slip case and with the complete map which measures about three feet square and lives in a pocket at the end of the book. The book itself is large, measuring about 12" x 10".
Here's a taste of the book.

Attached Files
P1000258.jpg (66 downloads)
Front cover
P1000259.jpg (66 downloads)
Contents
P1000260.jpg (66 downloads)
List of appendices
P1000261.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000262.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000264.jpg (66 downloads)
Foreword
P1000265.jpg (66 downloads)
Map in its pocket
P1000252.jpg (66 downloads)
Title page
P1000257.jpg (66 downloads)
Interesting insight into ferry use.
P1000256.jpg (67 downloads)
A section of the map.
P1000254.jpg (66 downloads)
This, and the next two, are some of the ideas. There are so many like this that I just can't show them all.
P1000255.jpg (66 downloads)
P1000253.JPG (66 downloads)

Carpe diem.
Google Ads
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016786
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016890
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016891
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If anyone's interested, there's a copy of the 1947 Plan in the archives, or at least there was when the archives were in the Town Hall.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016923
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Originally Posted by chriskay
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


I got the 40% horse drawn traffic
My question was "Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?"
If you take into account the scared commuters not wanting to travel through the tunnel, (I suppose it was like flying a plane when the tunnel opened) it is still a staggering number crossing the Mersey on a motor vehicle via a boat, when in fact the tunnel had already been opened for over 10 years
Don't you think it is a bit high?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016973
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If you allow that only 15% of the total was commuters, travelling five days a week, that's only 35 cars a day, which is a tiny number compared with those using the tunnel. By the same token, many commuters chose to continue to use the ferries even after the Mersey Railway was electrified and therefore made more pleasant. I guess people just thought it made a pleasant start to the day.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016983
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?


Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1017044
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?

Yes, I'm considering only what might be termed commuter traffic.


Carpe diem.

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Arthur Christiansen, Daily Express editor
by yoller. 15th Aug 2019 7:37pm
help
by sunnyside. 10th Aug 2019 12:50pm
Angus Tilston MBE - RIP
by Norton. 7th Aug 2019 1:47pm
job wanted
by lincle. 5th Aug 2019 7:48pm
Brattan Road Bombing WW2
by dingle. 2nd Aug 2019 1:53am
For Sale & Free
Engine crane/hoist wanted - asap
by gerrymoore. 20th Aug 2019 5:35pm
Samsung Gear S3 Frontier Smart Watch
by Catsick. 18th Aug 2019 3:33pm
Hearth
by rocks. 15th Aug 2019 10:06pm
Fencer needed
by paul110180. 6th Aug 2019 7:08pm
5m bell tent
by Little_B. 3rd Aug 2019 10:41pm
Member Spotlight
Norton
Norton
Wallasey
Posts: 709
Joined: September 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Pfloyd123, Willo58, Adamthomas89, maxferrie, sharono
13057 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Phoenix (2019)
New Wirral Info
help
by sunnyside. 10th Aug 2019 12:50pm
job wanted
by lincle. 5th Aug 2019 7:48pm
Forget it if youre just 'old' !
by venice. 24th Jul 2019 11:11am
Someone yelling - Rock Lane West, Rock Ferry
by Littlebear. 21st Jul 2019 5:13pm
Accessing Marine Lake, New Brighton
by Aryia. 30th Jun 2019 8:49pm
News : New Topics
Harland and Wolff
by diggingdeeper. 1st Aug 2019 11:01pm
Flooding
by cools. 1st Aug 2019 6:15pm
Rochester Cathedral and other odd ideas
by granny. 1st Aug 2019 11:17am
Midwife Services Collapse
by diggingdeeper. 30th Jul 2019 1:56pm
Boris prime minister
by cools. 23rd Jul 2019 12:51pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Laptop Reinstall?
by fish5133. 24th Jul 2019 11:32pm
Your cat snipped and chipped £5
by venice. 23rd Jul 2019 10:32pm
Body repairs
by kamikazi. 16th Jul 2019 10:09am
Bultaco pursang
by Bultaco. 13th Mar 2019 12:43pm
Bidston Hill Underground Tunnels Part 2
by robbo_theman. 23rd Sep 2008 8:58pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Thu 6:04am
Sunset Thu 8:25pm
Local Time Thu 2:18am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1