WikiWirral Share a Little Learn a Lot about your Wirral
Forum Statistics
Posts1,019,325
Topics75,075
Members13,027
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs10
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
50 registered members (alan128, 10 invisible), 1,389 guests, and371 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
EU Successes
by diggingdeeper. 11th Jul 2019 3:39pm
Harry Brown
by cools. 10th Jul 2019 2:06pm
Best video ever
by GaryFromWirral. 5th Jul 2019 4:14pm
Newbie.
by Fidelio. 30th Jun 2019 11:36am
New Wirral History
Unidentified Dredgers
by locomotive. 23rd Jun 2019 8:18pm
Cheshire Tithe Maps Online
by yoller. 21st Jun 2019 11:42am
POW Camp, Bidston WW1
by bert1. 23rd Nov 2012 7:12am
721 E.S.W.A club 54-56 Park Road South Birkenhead
by derekdwc. 1st Jul 2012 10:33am
ABC Cinema
by pablo42. 3rd Apr 2012 9:21am
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
WW1 Monument, Birkenhead
Topic Replies
Wirral Crime Yesterday
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2019 10:16pm
Set Your Clocks
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2019 7:12pm
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2019 7:05pm
Accessing Marine Lake, New Brighton
by saltytom. 17th Jul 2019 11:10am
What song are you listening to?
by Dilly. 16th Jul 2019 11:22pm
417 Ring o' Bells West Kirby
by diggingdeeper. 16th Jul 2019 5:34pm
Body repairs
by kamikazi. 16th Jul 2019 10:09am
free Items to go before scrapman commoth
by gerry1. 15th Jul 2019 3:17pm
Black 2008 Vauxhall Meriva - MOT Failure
by lansyp. 15th Jul 2019 11:41am
July
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 17th Jul 2019 7:05pm
Death Cafe Wirral - this time at Stollies
by martinharris. 28th Jun 2019 3:43pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
The grand 1947 plan. #1016778
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
After the war, when Birkenhead had suffered quite a bit of bomb damage, allied to the fact that at that time there was a lot of poor quality housing, the Corporation commissioned a grand plan for the re-development of the town.
I'm fortunate to have a mint copy of this book, still in its slip case and with the complete map which measures about three feet square and lives in a pocket at the end of the book. The book itself is large, measuring about 12" x 10".
Here's a taste of the book.

Attached Files
P1000258.jpg (66 downloads)
Front cover
P1000259.jpg (66 downloads)
Contents
P1000260.jpg (66 downloads)
List of appendices
P1000261.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000262.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000264.jpg (66 downloads)
Foreword
P1000265.jpg (66 downloads)
Map in its pocket
P1000252.jpg (66 downloads)
Title page
P1000257.jpg (66 downloads)
Interesting insight into ferry use.
P1000256.jpg (67 downloads)
A section of the map.
P1000254.jpg (66 downloads)
This, and the next two, are some of the ideas. There are so many like this that I just can't show them all.
P1000255.jpg (66 downloads)
P1000253.JPG (66 downloads)

Carpe diem.
Google Ads
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016786
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016890
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016891
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If anyone's interested, there's a copy of the 1947 Plan in the archives, or at least there was when the archives were in the Town Hall.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016923
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Originally Posted by chriskay
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


I got the 40% horse drawn traffic
My question was "Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?"
If you take into account the scared commuters not wanting to travel through the tunnel, (I suppose it was like flying a plane when the tunnel opened) it is still a staggering number crossing the Mersey on a motor vehicle via a boat, when in fact the tunnel had already been opened for over 10 years
Don't you think it is a bit high?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016973
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If you allow that only 15% of the total was commuters, travelling five days a week, that's only 35 cars a day, which is a tiny number compared with those using the tunnel. By the same token, many commuters chose to continue to use the ferries even after the Mersey Railway was electrified and therefore made more pleasant. I guess people just thought it made a pleasant start to the day.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016983
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?


Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1017044
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?

Yes, I'm considering only what might be termed commuter traffic.


Carpe diem.

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 16th Jul 2019 10:24pm
Body repairs
by kamikazi. 16th Jul 2019 10:09am
Set Your Clocks
by diggingdeeper. 15th Jul 2019 11:43pm
Wirral Crime Yesterday
by diggingdeeper. 13th Jul 2019 4:05pm
Ah, how sad.
by venice. 9th Jul 2019 6:43pm
For Sale & Free
free Items to go before scrapman commoth
by gerry1. 15th Jul 2019 3:17pm
B&O MX7000 25”
by _Ste_. 14th Jul 2019 1:17am
14” Sony Trinitron PVM Monitors
by _Ste_. 14th Jul 2019 1:12am
Sony Trinitron pvm monitors
by _Ste_. 14th Jul 2019 1:08am
Block Paving
by delta6. 13th Jul 2019 9:39am
Member Spotlight
starakita
starakita
between heaven & hell
Posts: 2,388
Joined: October 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Stevieboy73, LiziWiziWoo, AlecS, paulc1969, kkolden65
13027 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Cheshire Live Steamers
by diggingdeeper. 16th Jul 2019 10:24pm
Abandoned Buildings around Wirral
by sabian8989. 8th Jul 2019 11:48pm
Accessing Marine Lake, New Brighton
by Aryia. 30th Jun 2019 8:49pm
Death Cafe Wirral - this time at Stollies
by martinharris. 28th Jun 2019 3:43pm
Cutting gutters and down pipe
by ultimate. 21st Jun 2019 7:20am
News : New Topics
Set Your Clocks
by diggingdeeper. 15th Jul 2019 11:43pm
Wirral Crime Yesterday
by diggingdeeper. 13th Jul 2019 4:05pm
Saudi arms sales
by granny. 20th Jun 2019 11:04am
The Daffodil (Overchurch) is Saved
by Norton. 19th Jun 2019 10:25am
Thieves About
by diggingdeeper. 11th Jun 2019 12:30am
New Enthusiast Forums
Body repairs
by kamikazi. 16th Jul 2019 10:09am
Ah, how sad.
by venice. 9th Jul 2019 6:43pm
Best Dog Walking Parks ?
by Fenix. 25th Jun 2019 9:42am
windows 10
by steviebyday. 21st Jun 2019 5:08pm
File Backups Storage On Memory Sticks
by fish5133. 14th Jun 2019 9:36pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Thu 5:06am
Sunset Thu 9:30pm
Local Time Thu 6:15am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1