WikiWirral 15yrs online 24/7 365 days a year.
Forum Statistics
Posts1,020,394
Topics75,174
Members13,105
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs19
Most Online13,060
Sep 14th, 2019
Who's Online Now
38 registered members (10 invisible), 1,316 guests, and267 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
State of the Nation
by diggingdeeper. 15th Oct 2019 5:23pm
World's Best Council Estate
by diggingdeeper. 28th Sep 2019 1:56pm
Funny Pics and Posts
by neddy. 2nd Feb 2013 4:21pm
Count to 1,000,000
by Nobody. 16th May 2011 12:40pm
New Wirral History
WHERE IS/WAS TONER ROAD, LISCARD
by moretonkiwi. 27th Sep 2019 4:25am
some downloadable pdfs from Cheshire Local History
by derekdwc. 26th Sep 2019 12:44pm
Where is/was this Station Hotel
by derekdwc. 13th Mar 2019 11:44am
Long-forgotten brook.
by Excoriator. 17th Sep 2017 7:37pm
St Werburgh's, Birkenhead
by Roslynmuse. 13th Aug 2014 7:19pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Boaty McBoatface takes shape
The gathering storm: Mersey waterfront today
Topic Replies
What song are you listening to?
by granny. 15th Oct 2019 11:27pm
Extinction Rebellion
by diggingdeeper. 15th Oct 2019 4:57pm
Boom : New Ferry Explosion
by diggingdeeper. 14th Oct 2019 10:18pm
663 Wellington now called "Dukes" Wallasey Road a
by daveybm. 13th Oct 2019 10:08am
Defend Democracy Protests
by granny. 12th Oct 2019 11:40pm
Lost river (Well, brook really)
by Excoriator. 12th Oct 2019 11:08pm
Spark plugs
by Pete_M. 11th Oct 2019 3:59am
Samsung Gear S3 Frontier Smart Watch
by Catsick. 10th Oct 2019 6:48pm
Wanted consumer unit fuse box for a shed
by spider. 10th Oct 2019 4:45pm
October
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Question Time in Wallasey
by granny. 29th Sep 2019 9:51pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
The grand 1947 plan. #1016778
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
After the war, when Birkenhead had suffered quite a bit of bomb damage, allied to the fact that at that time there was a lot of poor quality housing, the Corporation commissioned a grand plan for the re-development of the town.
I'm fortunate to have a mint copy of this book, still in its slip case and with the complete map which measures about three feet square and lives in a pocket at the end of the book. The book itself is large, measuring about 12" x 10".
Here's a taste of the book.

Attached Files
P1000258.jpg (66 downloads)
Front cover
P1000259.jpg (66 downloads)
Contents
P1000260.jpg (66 downloads)
List of appendices
P1000261.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000262.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000264.jpg (66 downloads)
Foreword
P1000265.jpg (66 downloads)
Map in its pocket
P1000252.jpg (66 downloads)
Title page
P1000257.jpg (66 downloads)
Interesting insight into ferry use.
P1000256.jpg (67 downloads)
A section of the map.
P1000254.jpg (66 downloads)
This, and the next two, are some of the ideas. There are so many like this that I just can't show them all.
P1000255.jpg (66 downloads)
P1000253.JPG (66 downloads)

Carpe diem.
Google Ads
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016786
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016890
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016891
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If anyone's interested, there's a copy of the 1947 Plan in the archives, or at least there was when the archives were in the Town Hall.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016923
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Originally Posted by chriskay
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


I got the 40% horse drawn traffic
My question was "Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?"
If you take into account the scared commuters not wanting to travel through the tunnel, (I suppose it was like flying a plane when the tunnel opened) it is still a staggering number crossing the Mersey on a motor vehicle via a boat, when in fact the tunnel had already been opened for over 10 years
Don't you think it is a bit high?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016973
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If you allow that only 15% of the total was commuters, travelling five days a week, that's only 35 cars a day, which is a tiny number compared with those using the tunnel. By the same token, many commuters chose to continue to use the ferries even after the Mersey Railway was electrified and therefore made more pleasant. I guess people just thought it made a pleasant start to the day.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016983
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?


Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1017044
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?

Yes, I'm considering only what might be termed commuter traffic.


Carpe diem.

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Extinction Rebellion
by granny. 7th Oct 2019 6:06pm
Question Time in Wallasey
by derekdwc. 29th Sep 2019 12:12pm
WHERE IS/WAS TONER ROAD, LISCARD
by moretonkiwi. 27th Sep 2019 4:25am
some downloadable pdfs from Cheshire Local History
by derekdwc. 26th Sep 2019 12:44pm
New Brighton Adventure Land
by cools. 25th Sep 2019 10:34pm
For Sale & Free
Computer Desk
by Catsick. 9th Oct 2019 11:49am
Computer Desk
by Catsick. 5th Oct 2019 9:35am
Laser Printer (USB / network)
by Gibbo. 3rd Oct 2019 11:11am
sewing machine
by lincle. 3rd Oct 2019 8:31am
Trampoline
by lincle. 1st Oct 2019 6:19pm
Member Spotlight
Littlebear
Littlebear
Wirral
Posts: 246
Joined: June 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
jpacker, Fazza, Mrs_Woods, S1mm0, spaceylala
13105 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Question Time in Wallasey
by derekdwc. 29th Sep 2019 12:12pm
Recent road repairs
by Littlebear. 26th Aug 2019 11:21am
News : New Topics
Extinction Rebellion
by granny. 7th Oct 2019 6:06pm
New Brighton Adventure Land
by cools. 25th Sep 2019 10:34pm
New art ... by Dotmaster @ NewBrighton
by GaryFromWirral. 21st Sep 2019 3:20pm
Police, Rock ferry.
by diggingdeeper. 19th Sep 2019 8:52pm
Stanley School Sackings
by diggingdeeper. 18th Sep 2019 1:54am
New Enthusiast Forums
When Logins Become Redundant
by diggingdeeper. 24th Sep 2019 8:10am
Spark plugs
by Pete_M. 16th Sep 2019 8:14am
Downton Abbey Film
by cools. 13th Sep 2019 3:30pm
Your cat snipped and chipped £5
by venice. 23rd Jul 2019 10:32pm
Abandoned Winery Farm
by snowhite. 26th Feb 2016 3:39pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Wed 7:41am
Sunset Wed 6:13pm
Local Time Wed 9:08am
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1