WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Statistics
Posts1,004,302
Topics74,292
Members12,629
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs18
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
46 registered members (alan128, 9 invisible), 976 guests, and295 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
I've Lost ALL hope
by fish5133. 15th May 2018 11:24pm
Nappy consent
by cools. 14th May 2018 7:58am
40 Minutes Until Takeoff
by diggingdeeper. 10th May 2018 10:08pm
Taking a stand against rampant pc'ness.
by venice. 5th May 2018 11:37am
New Wirral History
Mill Road, Woodslee Lodge, Bromborough
by soreofhing. 17th May 2018 8:40pm
whetstone lane boxing club
by oldbirkonian1. 19th Apr 2017 6:34pm
RIP : Chris Kay
by granny. 31st Aug 2016 9:25am
Davies Street, Birkenhead
by Mogzie. 17th Sep 2015 10:59pm
Random pics of local and national history
by RUDEBOX. 25th Sep 2014 4:16pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
Terracotta Warriors 2
Terracotta Warriors
Topic Replies
computer bits FOC
by DavidB. 20th May 2018 12:58pm
Old photos
by bert1. 20th May 2018 7:12am
Tasering Again
by diggingdeeper. 19th May 2018 10:15pm
Wanted. Kittens
by fish5133. 19th May 2018 10:01pm
Easibed Wood chipping FREE
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 12:58pm
Finch/Canary Breeding Boxes & Pans
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 12:01pm
Bird Drinker & Feeder
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 11:56am
Bengalese Finches x 3, Silver Bengalese Finch x 1
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 11:51am
Zebra Finches For Sale
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 11:47am
May
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Local History on Show
by Norton. 15th May 2018 2:58pm
Terracotta warriors
by missmahjong. 13th May 2018 10:35am
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
The grand 1947 plan. #1016778
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
10th Aug 2016 1:34pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
After the war, when Birkenhead had suffered quite a bit of bomb damage, allied to the fact that at that time there was a lot of poor quality housing, the Corporation commissioned a grand plan for the re-development of the town.
I'm fortunate to have a mint copy of this book, still in its slip case and with the complete map which measures about three feet square and lives in a pocket at the end of the book. The book itself is large, measuring about 12" x 10".
Here's a taste of the book.

Attached Files
P1000258.jpg (66 downloads)
Front cover
P1000259.jpg (66 downloads)
Contents
P1000260.jpg (66 downloads)
List of appendices
P1000261.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000262.jpg (66 downloads)
More contents
P1000264.jpg (66 downloads)
Foreword
P1000265.jpg (66 downloads)
Map in its pocket
P1000252.jpg (66 downloads)
Title page
P1000257.jpg (66 downloads)
Interesting insight into ferry use.
P1000256.jpg (67 downloads)
A section of the map.
P1000254.jpg (66 downloads)
This, and the next two, are some of the ideas. There are so many like this that I just can't show them all.
P1000255.jpg (66 downloads)
P1000253.JPG (66 downloads)

Carpe diem.
Google Ads
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016786
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
10th Aug 2016 3:15pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016890
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
11th Aug 2016 1:05pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016891
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
11th Aug 2016 1:11pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If anyone's interested, there's a copy of the 1947 Plan in the archives, or at least there was when the archives were in the Town Hall.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016923
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
11th Aug 2016 4:50pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Originally Posted by chriskay
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Very interesting regarding ferry services
Them ferry service numbers are staggering, considering the other options of the railway and the Mersey tunnel
Regarding 'G'. Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?
Was it cheaper than a passage through the tunnel?

As it says , 40% was horse drawn traffic which was not allowed in the tunnel; also I suspect there would have been quite a few drivers who would have felt nervous in a long underwater tunnel. According to the schedule at 'G', only 15% was private cars.
As far as cost goes, I can't find out what the toll for a car was when the tunnel opened, all I can find out is that the goods ferry toll in 1905 for a four seater car was 1 shilling: using the relative RPI, that equals nearly five pounds today. Larger cars were charged between 1/6d and 3 shillings. The tunnel toll for a car in 1971 was 10p.
The luggage boats finished in 1941.


I got the 40% horse drawn traffic
My question was "Why was the ferry still used for motor vehicles?"
If you take into account the scared commuters not wanting to travel through the tunnel, (I suppose it was like flying a plane when the tunnel opened) it is still a staggering number crossing the Mersey on a motor vehicle via a boat, when in fact the tunnel had already been opened for over 10 years
Don't you think it is a bit high?

Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1016973
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
11th Aug 2016 9:29pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
If you allow that only 15% of the total was commuters, travelling five days a week, that's only 35 cars a day, which is a tiny number compared with those using the tunnel. By the same token, many commuters chose to continue to use the ferries even after the Mersey Railway was electrified and therefore made more pleasant. I guess people just thought it made a pleasant start to the day.


Carpe diem.
Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: chriskay] #1016983
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
11th Aug 2016 10:03pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?


Re: The grand 1947 plan. [Re: mikeeb] #1017044
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
12th Aug 2016 9:40am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline OP
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
I must be missing something here Chris
30% is motor traffic between liverpool and Birkenhead docks
16% Petrol transport from Ellesmere Port and North Country
That is what is confusing me, the above figures
The remanding 15% is what you are referring to, yes?

Yes, I'm considering only what might be termed commuter traffic.


Carpe diem.

Moderated by  Mark 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
At Last, The UN Has Grown A Pair
by diggingdeeper. 18th May 2018 6:35pm
Mill Road, Woodslee Lodge, Bromborough
by soreofhing. 17th May 2018 8:40pm
Local History on Show
by Norton. 15th May 2018 2:58pm
Old photos
by geprgie260. 14th May 2018 6:27pm
Giants in Liverpool
by cools. 13th May 2018 8:09pm
For Sale & Free
Wanted. Kittens
by muzzy2. 19th May 2018 5:16pm
Easibed Wood chipping FREE
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 12:58pm
Finch/Canary Breeding Boxes & Pans
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 12:01pm
Bird Drinker & Feeder
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 11:56am
Bengalese Finches x 3, Silver Bengalese Finch x 1
by ianyam. 19th May 2018 11:51am
Member Spotlight
billy_anorak59
billy_anorak59
Cambridgeshire
Posts: 213
Joined: February 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
T0NY93, Uthred, Kenny01, dustydog, Jpw85
12629 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
New Wirral Info
Local History on Show
by Norton. 15th May 2018 2:58pm
Brimstage Road Hedge
by TheGodSplinter. 7th May 2018 6:14pm
Cider and Sausages.. Shippons Irby may 7th
by fish5133. 2nd May 2018 11:06pm
Colour and Strength Solar Light Batteries
by spgb1a. 28th Apr 2018 2:54pm
Mermaid Trail
by granny. 27th Apr 2018 8:59pm
News : New Topics
At Last, The UN Has Grown A Pair
by diggingdeeper. 18th May 2018 6:35pm
Giants in Liverpool
by cools. 13th May 2018 8:09pm
Penny Bridge - flooding alert
by philmch. 8th May 2018 2:25pm
Insurance
by _Ste_. 3rd May 2018 2:17pm
Local elections
by cools. 1st May 2018 2:05pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Old photos
by geprgie260. 14th May 2018 6:27pm
NHS RIP
by diggingdeeper. 13th May 2018 1:24am
ITV catch up App for Samsung Tab 2
by nidgynoo. 10th May 2018 9:46am
Sony vaio laptop proplems
by Little_B. 9th May 2018 11:24pm
Red Ape
by granny. 2nd May 2018 11:06pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Sun 5:03am
Sunset Sun 9:14pm
Local Time Sun 4:46pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1