WikiWirral Share a Little Learn a Lot about your Wirral
Forum Statistics
Posts1,011,737
Topics74,723
Members12,821
Forums66
Posts in last 24hrs29
Most Online7,831
Apr 8th, 2013
Who's Online Now
65 registered members (8HBob, 11 invisible), 1,044 guests, and302 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Social Media : Follow Us


Popular Topics(Views 7days)
New General Forums
£5 Note with AK47 serial number
by GaryFromWirral. 16th Dec 2018 2:28am
Egyptian Tomb
by granny. 16th Dec 2018 12:20am
snowmen?
by locomotive. 14th Dec 2018 7:22pm
Looking for Gamers and New Members
by WargamerNik. 11th Dec 2018 10:21am
New Wirral History
Medieval Wirral.
by granny. 12th Dec 2018 11:02am
Carr House, Moreton
by granny. 11th Dec 2018 10:42pm
Bromborough - Marfords Estate
by billy_anorak59. 10th Dec 2018 12:35pm
762 Whitt's End Wine & Cocktail Bar 43 Market Stre
by derekdwc. 29th Nov 2018 11:15pm
758 Withens Lane Sports & Social Club
by derekdwc. 29th Nov 2018 11:11pm
Forum Tips
Photo Gallery Forums
WW1 Monument, Birkenhead
No more bridge, never be the same
Topic Replies
2x PS4 Dualshocks & Charger Stand
by Catsick. 17th Dec 2018 3:32pm
Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal
by svenlock68. 17th Dec 2018 2:14pm
Can Anyone Recommend A Mobile Mechanic
by rhoobarb2002. 17th Dec 2018 12:27pm
Rudolph has been spotted !
by casper. 17th Dec 2018 12:09pm
Panasonic HC VX870 4K camcorder
by gerrymoore. 17th Dec 2018 9:36am
Coventry
by granny. 17th Dec 2018 12:29am
Carr House, Moreton
by locomotive. 16th Dec 2018 8:49pm
Chester Zoo Fire
by lincle. 16th Dec 2018 7:04pm
Watch battery tool
by Salmon. 16th Dec 2018 4:32pm
December
M T W T F S S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Recent Posts : What's On ?
Coventry
by granny. 17th Dec 2018 12:29am
Christmas
by fish5133. 15th Dec 2018 3:40pm
Previous Topic
Next Topic
Print Topic
Rate Topic
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Trams through Birkenhead tunnel #1016199
4th Aug 2016 11:16pm
4th Aug 2016 11:16pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline OP

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline OP

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Why was it actually abandoned?
The tunnel was designed for tram use
Birkenhead was against it because of the ferry but that doesn't make sense. Did Birkenhead control the ferry?
They controlled a lot of trams so would have benefited
I know Wallasey, Bootle and the trains were not happy but who actually put the spanner in the works?

"As you can see, the Tunnel is circular. The roadway occupies the top half. The bottom was intended to be for a train or electric tramway, but that never happened."
[Linked Image]

Last edited by mikeeb; 4th Aug 2016 11:21pm.
Google Ads
Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016239
5th Aug 2016 11:55am
5th Aug 2016 11:55am
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 574
Canary Islands
MikeT Offline
Smartchild
MikeT  Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 574
Canary Islands
I've been in the bit under the roadway (the bottom half). It's full of pipes and wires but could be turned into a second deck or a railway line.

Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016248
5th Aug 2016 1:52pm
5th Aug 2016 1:52pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Why was it actually abandoned?
The tunnel was designed for tram use
Birkenhead was against it because of the ferry but that doesn't make sense. Did Birkenhead control the ferry?
They controlled a lot of trams so would have benefited
I know Wallasey, Bootle and the trains were not happy but who actually put the spanner in the works?


I don't know why the trams never ran: possibly Liverpool and Birkenhead couldn't reach agreement.
The ferry was always the Birkenhead ferry, from when the initial charter was granted to the priory by Edward 3rd. in 1330. The ferry was eventually taken over by Birkenhead Corporation in 1858.


Carpe diem.
Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016255
5th Aug 2016 2:35pm
5th Aug 2016 2:35pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline OP

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline OP

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
I cannot seem to find a definitive answer
Maybe it wasn't worth it financially, I just don't know

Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016256
5th Aug 2016 2:55pm
5th Aug 2016 2:55pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
There's no mention of tramcars running or intending to run through the Queensway tunnel in any of the papers I am able to search, however there's plenty on Motor Buses providing the service, of course with the usual objections,

Snippet from 1939,


Attached Files
bus1.PNG (116 downloads)
bus2.PNG (115 downloads)

God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016259
5th Aug 2016 3:11pm
5th Aug 2016 3:11pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline OP

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline OP

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Hmmm, Birkenhead were objecting to buses as well
Nice find Bert
From what I read they were still disputing the tram issue whilst it was getting built, but just continued building it that way because they had already started
You would think company's on both sides of the river would have been all over any new venture.
were they more tightly regulated back then?

Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016261
5th Aug 2016 3:48pm
5th Aug 2016 3:48pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
Regardless of whatever the regulations were back then, any form of public transport travelling through the tunnel would have raised objections from the ferries and the railways.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: bert1] #1016268
5th Aug 2016 4:47pm
5th Aug 2016 4:47pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
The original plan was to have trams. Quote from "The Story of the Mersey Tunnel, officially named Queensway"

"In this, the original scheme, through tram services between Liverpool and Cheshire boroughs were a prominent feature. It was for that reason that the great diameter of 44 ft. was provided for throughout, except in the branches, a diameter sufficient for four lanes of traffic on the upper deck and two sets of tram rails on the lower".

The tram plan seems to have been abandoned at the same time as the Wallasey and Bootle tunnels were. there is a vague reference to "Birkenhead's opposition to trams" but I cant find any reason for that, although it could have been because of the effect on the Birkenhead owned ferry.



Carpe diem.
Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016269
5th Aug 2016 4:53pm
5th Aug 2016 4:53pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline OP

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline OP

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
I suppose so, Wallasey and Bootle out of the running would just add more opposition

Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016274
5th Aug 2016 6:19pm
5th Aug 2016 6:19pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline OP

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline OP

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
Here it is
I have read through the article again here

"One was opposition from Birkenhead who wanted to protect their Ferries, another was that the government had said that they would reduce their contribution if a tramway was laid. The Tunnel would however still be excavated and built for most of it's length with a massive space under the roadway designed for the Tramway."

So it was down to money. When isn't it? grin


Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016300
6th Aug 2016 7:07am
6th Aug 2016 7:07am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
Came across this 1933 report,

Did they cover the road surface with these tiles and how long was it before they recovered with an alternative surface?

Attached Files
tunnel tiles.PNG (80 downloads)

God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: bert1] #1016314
6th Aug 2016 9:22am
6th Aug 2016 9:22am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
chriskay Offline
Forum Veteran
chriskay  Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
shropshire
Yes, the cast iron tiles were about a foot square with a studded surface and they were set in a bitumen compound. I don't know when they were tarmac'd over. There's a good picture of them being laid in the book "The Story of the Mersey Tunnel, officially named Queensway". You used to be able to buy this book for 5 at the tunnel HQ. It's a facsimile reprint of the original which was published for the opening in 1934. It's the most comprehensive book on the tunnel that I know.


Carpe diem.
Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016315
6th Aug 2016 9:35am
6th Aug 2016 9:35am
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
mikeeb Offline OP

Wise One
mikeeb  Offline OP

Wise One
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 795
birkenhead
It would seem that it was an experiment and only used in sections
1935 communication
" 25. Captain STRICKLAND
asked the Minister of Transport whether he has received any reports on the success or otherwise of the experimental iron roads, particularly with regard to the safe use of them by solo motor cyclists?


The MINISTER of TRANSPORT (Mr. Hore-Belisha)

The reports which I have received on the experimental lengths of iron paving laid in different localities indicate that the material is generally satisfactory, but I shall be very pleased to receive any reports from motor cyclists, who have not made any special representations to me, or, indeed, from any other road users.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1935/jul/03/experimental-iron-paving

Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: mikeeb] #1016317
6th Aug 2016 10:04am
6th Aug 2016 10:04am
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,589
wirral
E
Excoriator Online content
Forum Addict
Excoriator  Online Content
Forum Addict
E
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,589
wirral
I guess this space is now stuffed with pipes and cables and no longer usable for transport.

I always thought travellators would be a good way of putting it to use. Expensive perhaps, but think of the advertising space it would provide. I'm sure that would pull in a good income. They seem slow, but gain by the fact that you don't have to wait for the next tram/bus/ train so they end up being a surprisingly good way of moving large numbers of people quickly.

Re: Trams through Birkenhead tunnel [Re: chriskay] #1016320
6th Aug 2016 12:30pm
6th Aug 2016 12:30pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
B
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran
bert1  Offline

Wiki Veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,054
tranmere
Originally Posted by chriskay
Yes, the cast iron tiles were about a foot square with a studded surface and they were set in a bitumen compound. I don't know when they were tarmac'd over. There's a good picture of them being laid in the book "The Story of the Mersey Tunnel, officially named Queensway". You used to be able to buy this book for 5 at the tunnel HQ. It's a facsimile reprint of the original which was published for the opening in 1934. It's the most comprehensive book on the tunnel that I know.


Thanks Chris.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Can Anyone Recommend A Mobile Mechanic
by rhoobarb2002. 17th Dec 2018 11:19am
Rudolph has been spotted !
by granny. 16th Dec 2018 10:07am
Watch battery tool
by madrob. 15th Dec 2018 4:24pm
Chester Zoo Fire
by lincle. 15th Dec 2018 1:06pm
Coventry
by fish5133. 13th Dec 2018 10:22pm
For Sale & Free
2x PS4 Dualshocks & Charger Stand
by Catsick. 17th Dec 2018 3:32pm
Panasonic HC VX870 4K camcorder
by gerrymoore. 11th Dec 2018 8:36am
Sea fishing shelter
by paul110180. 9th Dec 2018 10:13am
Pool table etc 25x 55" approx
by Snodvan. 7th Dec 2018 7:13pm
Hotpoint slimline dishwasher free
by silvertigra. 6th Dec 2018 12:33pm
Member Spotlight
Mark
Mark
Wirral
Posts: 21,200
Joined: November 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
podgie, Dee48, nigeL45, Paowie1, LairdArrowe
12821 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
assassin (45)
New Wirral Info
Watch battery tool
by madrob. 15th Dec 2018 4:24pm
Coventry
by fish5133. 13th Dec 2018 10:22pm
Christmas
by granny. 4th Dec 2018 3:24pm
Bollards
by fish5133. 2nd Dec 2018 11:10pm
Contacting an old school friend?
by gerrymoore. 1st Dec 2018 11:29am
News : New Topics
Rudolph has been spotted !
by granny. 16th Dec 2018 10:07am
Chester Zoo Fire
by lincle. 15th Dec 2018 1:06pm
Mobile phone probs
by cools. 6th Dec 2018 5:58pm
Border, no Border. Deal, no Deal
by granny. 5th Dec 2018 11:57am
Submarine Assoc Diary lost
by BandyCoot. 3rd Dec 2018 4:35pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Can Anyone Recommend A Mobile Mechanic
by rhoobarb2002. 17th Dec 2018 11:19am
Phones
by venice. 9th Dec 2018 11:39pm
Lost Jack Russell
by venice. 7th Dec 2018 3:07pm
Budgie Found
by flybynight. 1st Dec 2018 4:33pm
CAT
by lincle. 29th Nov 2018 11:00pm
Popular Topics(Views 24hrs)
Wirral Sunrise Sunset
Sunrise Mon 8:23am
Sunset Mon 3:53pm
Local Time Mon 8:29pm
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1