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#1012711 - 27th Jun 2016 4:53pm David Cameron
snowshoes Online   content

Wise One

Registered: 16th Aug 2010
Posts: 788
Loc: ottawa canada ( formerly new b...
I understand David Cameron is not the most popular person in
the UK. However, watching him now in The House of Commons he
makes me believe he is a great Statesman for the UK. Unlike
our schoolboy Justin Trudeau. Very different from his Dad Pierre.

Is the UK a bit like a ship without a Captain at this point?

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#1012715 - 27th Jun 2016 5:12pm Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes]
lollipop Online   shifty
Forum Addict

Registered: 3rd Aug 2014
Posts: 1632
Loc: ireland.
Yes!!!! We set sail last Friday morning into the " unknown " !!!

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#1012724 - 27th Jun 2016 5:27pm Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
There aren't that many certainties inside the EU either, most things they bring out aren't good News.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1012727 - 27th Jun 2016 5:58pm Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes]
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 14435
Loc: Wirral
Apart from all the different reports, cross party squabbles, personal ideas, political views, financial theories, and all things that are giving the media a real feast, I tend to take on board Mervyn Kings comments earlier today.

David Cameron made a good speech this pm. in the House, and has committed to the decision of the British people, without wavering . Very positive and forward looking. (I thought)

We'll be just fine.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#1012731 - 27th Jun 2016 6:16pm Re: David Cameron [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: granny
David Cameron made a good speech this pm. in the House, and has committed to the decision of the British people, without wavering . Very positive and forward looking. (I thought


I agree, I was a bit concerned at the make-up of the "EU Unit" he is creating (Cabinet, Treasury, Foreign Office and Business Departments) as having a lack of any "people" departments but after a bit of research it may be reasonable.

I got a tiny hint of .... "you might need to accept free movement of people to achieve what we want" but that might be my paranoia.

Corbyn also made a very fine speech indeed.

Parliament as a mass behaved at its usual bullish embarrassment level.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1012805 - 28th Jun 2016 12:52pm Re: David Cameron [Re: diggingdeeper]
boblundell Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 18th Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Loc: Wallasey
"I got a tiny hint of .... "you might need to accept free movement of people to achieve what we want" but that might be my paranoia."

Not your paranoia. This is what Angela Merkel told German parliament this morning

"We will make sure that negotiations will not be carried out as a cherry-picking exercise. There must be and there will be a palpable difference between those countries who want to be members of the European family and those who donít ...

Whoever wants to leave this family cannot expect to shed all its responsibilities but keep the privileges ...

Those for example, who want free access to the single market will in return have to respect European basic rights and freedoms ... Thatís true for GB just as much as for the others.

Free acccess to the single market is granted to those who accept the four basic European freedoms: that of people, goods, services and capital. Norway for instance is not a member of the European Union but has access to the single market because it accepts open migration from the European Union."
Source http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live...rbyn-confidence
starting at 12.02

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#1012816 - 28th Jun 2016 4:56pm Re: David Cameron [Re: boblundell]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: boblundell
Those for example, who want free access to the single market will in return have to respect European basic rights and freedoms ... Thatís true for GB just as much as for the others.


Not at all, the Isle of Man has a free trade agreement without the free movement of people.

There are many EU free trade agreements with the rest of the world without freedom of movement of people eg

Morocco
Chile
Egypt
Mexico
Palestine
South Korea
South Africa
Jordan

BTW, Hi Bob, we know each other from another life.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1012855 - 29th Jun 2016 11:53am Re: David Cameron [Re: diggingdeeper]
boblundell Offline
Newbeee

Registered: 18th Sep 2013
Posts: 12
Loc: Wallasey
Hi DiggingDeeper! No idea who you are but you say we know each other so I hope you are well.
There is a difference between the european single market and free trade agreements with the eu. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36083664

For the former the eu requires free movement, incl of labour, for free trade agreements it doesn't.

Whether or not remaining a part of the single market is overall an advantage compared with negotiating a free trade agreement is a separate matter that people disagree on.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1688d0e4-15ef-11e6-b197-a4af20d5575e.html#axzz4CxbzcK1R
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-single-market.shtml

My quote was Angela Merkel making clear they will not change their policy for the UK. It can negotiate a free trade agreement with the eu but if it wants to remain in the single market it will have to accept free movement of labour.

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#1012867 - 29th Jun 2016 1:12pm Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
But all Britain wants is a free trade agreement, the single market implicitly has free movement of people which we don't want.

The free movement of goods is regulated under the WTO and other treaties.

There is more flexibility than the EU is implying, Norway isn't part of the single market for fish - because they have a much more lucrative deal on fish - they fish UK waters and sell the fish to EU outside the single market (if you can envision how that is even possible) .

Merkel is desperately trying to stop other countries exiting but at the same time she can't afford any hits on the EU economy by refusing to trade with the UK, so as usual, there are loads of playground shouting going on.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1012876 - 29th Jun 2016 2:36pm Re: David Cameron [Re: diggingdeeper]
casper Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1349
Loc: wallasey
I really hope you are right dd, because if not there will a lot more than playground shouting going on if brexit come back with freedom of movement to get a deal.

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#1012878 - 29th Jun 2016 3:27pm Re: David Cameron [Re: casper]
diggingdeeper Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10277
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: casper
I really hope you are right dd


So do I, but as I always say ... look at the money if you want to find the truth.

There is potentially £85bn a year at stake for the EU**, that is a lot of money with so many of the member states teetering on the edge.

Would the Germans be prepared to let VW go to the wall?

** the Net trade difference between UK and EU in the month of April 2016 was £7.1bn which equates to £85.2bn a year.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1012904 - 29th Jun 2016 6:54pm Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 2748
Loc: Wirral
Oh good , Mrs Cranky has re-ignited the Barcelona issue, so its doubtful Scotland would get membership in its own right-- I think, --isnt it? I imagine manning our borders would be an impossible nightmare if Scotland was EU and we werent (not applicable if we end up with free movement in the end of course). Just so easy to slip around any land border to a vast choice of little beaches both East and West.

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