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David Cameron #1012711
27th Jun 2016 3:53pm
27th Jun 2016 3:53pm
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 865
ottawa canada ( formerly new b...
snowshoes Online content OP

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snowshoes  Online Content OP

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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 865
ottawa canada ( formerly new b...
I understand David Cameron is not the most popular person in
the UK. However, watching him now in The House of Commons he
makes me believe he is a great Statesman for the UK. Unlike
our schoolboy Justin Trudeau. Very different from his Dad Pierre.

Is the UK a bit like a ship without a Captain at this point?

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Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes] #1012715
27th Jun 2016 4:12pm
27th Jun 2016 4:12pm

L
lollipop
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lollipop
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Yes!!!! We set sail last Friday morning into the " unknown " !!!

Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes] #1012724
27th Jun 2016 4:27pm
27th Jun 2016 4:27pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,716
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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diggingdeeper  Offline

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There aren't that many certainties inside the EU either, most things they bring out aren't good news.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes] #1012727
27th Jun 2016 4:58pm
27th Jun 2016 4:58pm
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 15,441
Wirral
granny Offline
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Apart from all the different reports, cross party squabbles, personal ideas, political views, financial theories, and all things that are giving the media a real feast, I tend to take on board Mervyn Kings comments earlier today.

David Cameron made a good speech this pm. in the House, and has committed to the decision of the British people, without wavering . Very positive and forward looking. (I thought)

We'll be just fine.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
Re: David Cameron [Re: granny] #1012731
27th Jun 2016 5:16pm
27th Jun 2016 5:16pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,716
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by granny
David Cameron made a good speech this pm. in the House, and has committed to the decision of the British people, without wavering . Very positive and forward looking. (I thought


I agree, I was a bit concerned at the make-up of the "EU Unit" he is creating (Cabinet, Treasury, Foreign Office and Business Departments) as having a lack of any "people" departments but after a bit of research it may be reasonable.

I got a tiny hint of .... "you might need to accept free movement of people to achieve what we want" but that might be my paranoia.

Corbyn also made a very fine speech indeed.

Parliament as a mass behaved at its usual bullish embarrassment level.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: David Cameron [Re: diggingdeeper] #1012805
28th Jun 2016 11:52am
28th Jun 2016 11:52am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14
Wallasey
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boblundell Offline
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"I got a tiny hint of .... "you might need to accept free movement of people to achieve what we want" but that might be my paranoia."

Not your paranoia. This is what Angela Merkel told German parliament this morning

"We will make sure that negotiations will not be carried out as a cherry-picking exercise. There must be and there will be a palpable difference between those countries who want to be members of the European family and those who donít ...

Whoever wants to leave this family cannot expect to shed all its responsibilities but keep the privileges ...

Those for example, who want free access to the single market will in return have to respect European basic rights and freedoms ... Thatís true for GB just as much as for the others.

Free acccess to the single market is granted to those who accept the four basic European freedoms: that of people, goods, services and capital. Norway for instance is not a member of the European Union but has access to the single market because it accepts open migration from the European Union."
Source http://www.theguardian.com/politics...on-eu-leaders-brussels-corbyn-confidence
starting at 12.02

Re: David Cameron [Re: boblundell] #1012816
28th Jun 2016 3:56pm
28th Jun 2016 3:56pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,716
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by boblundell
Those for example, who want free access to the single market will in return have to respect European basic rights and freedoms ... Thatís true for GB just as much as for the others.


Not at all, the Isle of Man has a free trade agreement without the free movement of people.

There are many EU free trade agreements with the rest of the world without freedom of movement of people eg

Morocco
Chile
Egypt
Mexico
Palestine
South Korea
South Africa
Jordan

BTW, Hi Bob, we know each other from another life.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: David Cameron [Re: diggingdeeper] #1012855
29th Jun 2016 10:53am
29th Jun 2016 10:53am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14
Wallasey
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boblundell Offline
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Wallasey
Hi DiggingDeeper! No idea who you are but you say we know each other so I hope you are well.
There is a difference between the european single market and free trade agreements with the eu. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36083664

For the former the eu requires free movement, incl of labour, for free trade agreements it doesn't.

Whether or not remaining a part of the single market is overall an advantage compared with negotiating a free trade agreement is a separate matter that people disagree on.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1688d0e4-15ef-11e6-b197-a4af20d5575e.html#axzz4CxbzcK1R
http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-single-market.shtml

My quote was Angela Merkel making clear they will not change their policy for the UK. It can negotiate a free trade agreement with the eu but if it wants to remain in the single market it will have to accept free movement of labour.

Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes] #1012867
29th Jun 2016 12:12pm
29th Jun 2016 12:12pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,716
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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But all Britain wants is a free trade agreement, the single market implicitly has free movement of people which we don't want.

The free movement of goods is regulated under the WTO and other treaties.

There is more flexibility than the EU is implying, Norway isn't part of the single market for fish - because they have a much more lucrative deal on fish - they fish UK waters and sell the fish to EU outside the single market (if you can envision how that is even possible) .

Merkel is desperately trying to stop other countries exiting but at the same time she can't afford any hits on the EU economy by refusing to trade with the UK, so as usual, there are loads of playground shouting going on.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: David Cameron [Re: diggingdeeper] #1012876
29th Jun 2016 1:36pm
29th Jun 2016 1:36pm
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,557
wallasey
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casper Online content
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I really hope you are right dd, because if not there will a lot more than playground shouting going on if brexit come back with freedom of movement to get a deal.

Re: David Cameron [Re: casper] #1012878
29th Jun 2016 2:27pm
29th Jun 2016 2:27pm
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,716
Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Originally Posted by casper
I really hope you are right dd


So do I, but as I always say ... look at the money if you want to find the truth.

There is potentially £85bn a year at stake for the EU**, that is a lot of money with so many of the member states teetering on the edge.

Would the Germans be prepared to let VW go to the wall?

** the Net trade difference between UK and EU in the month of April 2016 was £7.1bn which equates to £85.2bn a year.


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Re: David Cameron [Re: snowshoes] #1012904
29th Jun 2016 5:54pm
29th Jun 2016 5:54pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,366
Wirral
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venice Offline

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venice  Offline

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Oh good , Mrs Cranky has re-ignited the Barcelona issue, so its doubtful Scotland would get membership in its own right-- I think, --isnt it? I imagine manning our borders would be an impossible nightmare if Scotland was EU and we werent (not applicable if we end up with free movement in the end of course). Just so easy to slip around any land border to a vast choice of little beaches both East and West.


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