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#222663 - 25th Apr 2008 7:32pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: jonno40]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16161
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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Ive noticed, over the past decade (since Labour got in surprisingly), a literal year on year increase in anti-social crime.
Now, I will give the housing association and local council/police all the credit in the world, they have worked wonders with the flats I live in, turning them from ASBO central into a nice, quiet area with an ever stregntening community atmosphere and finally a good future over the 2 years I have lived there.
But everywhere else just seems to get worse and worse and kids and youths have no respect for anyone nowadays, not even themselves.
Crime hasnt dropped, it has increased. The reporting of crime has dropped, as has the logging of crime due to amount of paperwork the police now have to do for each crime reported...
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#223206 - 27th Apr 2008 4:18pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: Auditastic]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16161
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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I don't doubt the work rate of the police; they do a damn hard job and I have all the respect in the world for the job the police do.
It's the justice system and the way the government runs the country that causes people not to report crimes. I know plenty of people who feel its not even worth reporting a crime anymore because in their opinion it would just "fall on death ears as the police are useless".
The police are just doing as much as they can, it's the government who are actually to blame, but either way, I see more and more crime year on year, but less people are bothered to report minor crimes now as they know it won't lead to anything.
Also, the figures surely can't take into account the ASB crime that goes on everywhere, smashing up of bus stops, fighting, vandelism, intimidation by gangs etc, these crimes are very very rarely reported.
So I stand by my point; crime levels have not dropped, the reporting of crime has, crime, moreso ASB related crime, is on a rapid increase year on year imho.
It doesnt help the fact that criminals, when prosecuted, never get anywhere near the appropriate sentence, in fact under Labour, they are more likely to be released without a custodial sentence to go do it again!
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#223221 - 27th Apr 2008 4:44pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: Auditastic]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16161
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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The point of prison ISNT to punish..its to protect society from those offenders and to rehabilitate...
Actually, that is pretty shitty, come on, some little gobshite kills a child, you are honestly tewlling me they shouldnt be punished, you think they should be "rehabilitated?
And how many of these criminals are repeat offenders, its the same people over and over again, prisons don't punish OR rehabilitate offenders, they practically reward the low-life offenders. Im not saying some don't come out and never want to go back, but to most criminals, its just a walk in the park.
How are the prisons supposed to rehabilitate prisoners, when the prisoners practically run these private prisons (you never seen the Whistleblower report on BBC).
And where is the justice in rehabilitation, justice is in punishment. This is eaxctly what im getting at, the justice system in the UK is an absolute joke, I didnt think the police were of such a cocked up mind as the government, rehabilitation my arse, this country needs to get real, bring back the death penalty, make prisoners work very very hard, get the fookers into line, not give them playstations and tv's and 3 good meals a day, half of them wouldnt even get that on the outside!!
A prisoner should be punished, not "rehabilitated", it is extreme punishment that keeps them out of prison, not failed rehabilitation programmes...
Get the fookin army in there to give them all a hiding a day, teach the fookers some respect for other people, a beating a day keeps the crime away imho. But I forget, rehabilitation does so much better!
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#223222 - 27th Apr 2008 4:50pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: MattLFC]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16161
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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And as for repeat thieving scum, cut their hands off like they do in Middle Eastern countries, and as for convicted rapists, cut thier goolies off!!
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#223338 - 28th Apr 2008 12:25am
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: Auditastic]
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Spritey_Nikki
Sexy Devil
Forum Addict
Registered: 13th Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Loc: Wallasey
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I ave experience with living among the arabs in Saudi Arabia, and I have to say in the 8 years I lived there, I did not hear or see anyone doing any sort of crime. Now I am not saying that people didnt commit crime, they did. But due to the harsh punishment, it detered people from doing crime. So although I believe not such punishments would work here in the UK, I do think they work in some societies.
The only problem with UK, is although we do have punishments, they still are not harsh enough for some crimes committed. The other thing, is although a jail sentence is given, if they appeal it, more often than not they are out half way through it. They dont learn!
I also noticed you put 'I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly'.....we obviously dont have a very good justice system if you feel that we would get it wrong.....it wouldnt be of any opinion if our country and government did their jobs right!
So......although I believe maybe we shouldnt have punishments like Saudi, I do believe that we should change somethings about the way we deal with certain crimes and punishments.
And to be honest I would agree with Matt, I think that if they were to bring back certain things, then a lot of our crimes would drop! And to be honest some people probably commit crime because they get a better life in prison than they do out. Going to prison is a sort of punishment, unfortunatley because of how our prisons are now, its like walking into a hotel room, no-body learns from it, and then judges/police/government all wonder why criminals commit crime again!
_________________________
Nikki Abbo!  Life isnt a practise,you have to get it right first time! 
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#223473 - 28th Apr 2008 2:56pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: spinking]
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AR_One
Enthusiast
Registered: 14th Nov 2007
Posts: 109
Loc: Wirral
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OOps
Started this thread and then haven't been back on here for a couple of days and there's loads of replies.
I guess the point that I wanted to make was that I'm a firm supporter of the Police and the work that they do but I do feel that there is a surrender of the streets and a general ignorance of small or petty (I hate that description) crime. I see this all the time in a general, continual degradation of the environment. Round where I live you only have to look at:
- what seems to happen on a weekly basis to Flaybrick cemetary.
- the burning of cars and fly-tipping on Bidston Hill
- the new houses that are going up near the 7 styles regularly getting thier windows put in
- a large number of burglaries and attempted burglaries in our street and
- walking past the new houses at St James a couple of weeks ago, someone had pulled up all the trees and tipped the bins out.
It all adds up to a general feeling of inscurity about depression about the standard of respect that people have towards each other and their property.
I always make the effort to report things to the Police or the council but shoudl you really call 999 if someone is breaking trees as this is only way that they are likely to get caught?
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#223709 - 29th Apr 2008 11:31am
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: Spritey_Nikki]
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Auditastic
Veteran
Registered: 16th Oct 2007
Posts: 688
Loc: wirral
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I ave experience with living among the arabs in Saudi Arabia, and I have to say in the 8 years I lived there, I did not hear or see anyone doing any sort of crime. Now I am not saying that people didnt commit crime, they did. But due to the harsh punishment, it detered people from doing crime. So although I believe not such punishments would work here in the UK, I do think they work in some societies.
The only problem with UK, is although we do have punishments, they still are not harsh enough for some crimes committed. The other thing, is although a jail sentence is given, if they appeal it, more often than not they are out half way through it. They dont learn!
I also noticed you put 'I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly'.....we obviously dont have a very good justice system if you feel that we would get it wrong.....it wouldnt be of any opinion if our country and government did their jobs right!
So......although I believe maybe we shouldnt have punishments like Saudi, I do believe that we should change somethings about the way we deal with certain crimes and punishments.
And to be honest I would agree with Matt, I think that if they were to bring back certain things, then a lot of our crimes would drop! And to be honest some people probably commit crime because they get a better life in prison than they do out. Going to prison is a sort of punishment, unfortunatley because of how our prisons are now, its like walking into a hotel room, no-body learns from it, and then judges/police/government all wonder why criminals commit crime again!
I lived in Bahrain for 4 years..and also have experience of the arab way of life....crime still does go on....but people are just terrified about doing anything wrong..such as jaywalking...they rule but absolute power and fear...
is that really a civilised way to live? not in my humble opinion
...isnt the whole point of democracy and freedom of speech why millions of people fought and died for our rights over the years...
as for my comment..'I still am of the opinion that it is better that 10 guilty go free rather than an innocent man be jailed wrongly' you also miss the point...
we have an excellent justice system in that it must be proved that someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt...a far higher standard than civil law..on the balnce of probabilities...and the US system is also of a lower standard of proof.
Whilst we all rant about minor and petty crime...locking people up for it isnt the solution..education, good parenting and challenging ASB is the better way.
Comon..how many people bitch and moan about getting tickets for minor things like..speeding, no seat belts, like numberplates etc etc etc....
if we really clamped down on things...and jumped all over people for minor crimes...would it solve things...I very much doubt it!
The quintessential thing about the UK is the stereotypical idea of a bobby on the beat..they public hate the fact we even wear stabvests asthey are a bit too aggresive looking...so we tone it down with hi-viz jackets...
I think of lot of people think the grass is greener on the otherside if we were harsher...but I bet money that push comes to shove...people wouldnt be at all happy if we were more strict and handed out harsher penalties...
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#223749 - 29th Apr 2008 3:40pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: Auditastic]
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Brian
Newbeee
Registered: 17th Mar 2008
Posts: 41
Loc: Pennsylvania, ex-Moreton
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...and the US system is also of a lower standard of proof.
The problem with the American justice system, IMO, is that they've made it political. You *elect* many local judges and district attorneys over here, and they stand on political tickets. It's only at the highest levels that they're appointed, but even then, the appointments are still political ones, e.g. Bush loading the Supreme Court with the most right-wing judges he could get approved.
As regards "crimes", you wouldn't believe some of the things that get reported *and acted upon* in my local (and very rural) area. The cops have to justify their existence, as they're paid for locally. I've seen a report where one kid poured a can of Coke (or similar) over another kid and **was charged with harrassment**.
If I remember, I'll scan the next 'court report' section from our weekly local scandal sheet, and put it up on my WWW site. It should give you all a laugh. One of my friends recently retired as a sergeant in the Manc. police, and he said he near died laughing when I e-mailed him one of the 'court report' pages.
Brian.
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#223767 - 29th Apr 2008 5:32pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: Auditastic]
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Spritey_Nikki
Sexy Devil
Forum Addict
Registered: 13th Feb 2008
Posts: 1292
Loc: Wallasey
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Ok, for starters, freedom of speech, yeh so many people fought for it, shame it doesnt really happen anymore. Unfortunatley for the british citizens, you say anything about or to a black person, and your done for racism...thats not freedom of speech. I could say that I dont like asylum seekers in our country, and I would get hung,drawn and quartered for being racist, and yet I lived among them for 8 years!
Now you say you lived in Bahrain, fair enough....but living in Bahrain and Saudi are two completley different countries, with different cultures and beliefs...bhrain is a much more leniant country..I mean for example, in Saudi drink is illegal, as where its not in Bahrain! You dont have to cover up in Bahrain, you can eat bacon in Bahrain. The reason why alcohol banned, is because a prince went out and got drunk one night and raped a young girl, so the royal family banned drink! I have been to both places, and they are not the same! Although Saudi is strict,notice how not many people will put a foot out of place! And like I said, although I believe they wouldnt work in our society, they do in others!
You say better parenting.....you give me 3 possible ways in which you would start good parenting?......
An as for bobbies, the public dont care what you wear, as long as they feel safe in the knowledge that your doing your job right, and that if they had a problem, it would be sorted for them. Am sure at the moment, not many people do feel like that.
We want a country whereby we feel safe...we know that we can go out on the streets and nothing will happen. That old ladies can be safe in knowledge that they can walk to any destination without being hassled. We dont live in such a society!
All I am saying is that although Saudi's punishments maybe would not work.....longer prison sentences...detention centres....no appeals against sentences....more community service....and make it less uncomfortable in prison...take away luxuries that they have....tv...playstation and such things, am sure criminals wouldnt want to be in there. You could always add on, if they have already been to prison for rape or murder, bring the death penaltey back!!!
_________________________
Nikki Abbo! Life isnt a practise,you have to get it right first time!
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#223780 - 29th Apr 2008 6:24pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: Spritey_Nikki]
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Civic_Coupe_Sean
Forum Master
Registered: 12th Oct 2006
Posts: 2665
Loc: Wirral
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Me vote ? LMAO  Never voted in my life and don't intend too 
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#223786 - 29th Apr 2008 6:30pm
Re: Merseyside has biggest drop in crime
[Re: MattLFC]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16161
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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Also, I recently recall you moaning about not being able to get a job, that you really want to be in, that treats you well and you are satisfied with... a lot of this is to do with many factors that can be directly related to the way the country is run, and the people who are elected, by you, the public, to run it.
Without ever voting, you have (along with all other people who never want to vote), imho, no reason to moan. If you vote for a losing party/candidate, at least you have grounds to moan.
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