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#193293 - 12th Jan 2008 9:19am
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: Pinzgauer]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
 
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16177
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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I agree with the disabled system. I will never park in a disabled place and dispise anyone who does that isnt disabled.
The parent and child system is a con to get more families to shop at the likes of Asda and Tesco... as Waddi, who uses the system himself having kids, has in the past pointed out, if the system was to make things safer and and easier for parents with kids, the spaces wouldnt be placed in the busiest part of car parks (ie. the front), they would be placed further away from the supermarkets where the is both less danger to the children, and less resentment amongst other drivers.
As both Sean and Ben can testify, me and Stacey used a "normal" parking space the other day in Tesco, a bit further away, with a 1yr old baby in the car, and we had absolutely no problems in using it. There wasnt any need for more space, and all the parent and child spaces were used. In actual fact, to be honest, I wouldnt have wanted to get him out in the busier part of the car park where the general dogfight for spaces takes place.
As I say, I sort of support the parent and child scheme... but as to why a parent, who bear in mind has had thier child/children through choice (a disabled person doesnt have such choice), and knows they must be prepared to make sacrifices beforehand, should have preference over everyone else, is wrong. It is simply because the likes of Tesco know that they will spend more money then a shopper with no children, so they do whatever they can to attract them into the store.
Place the spaces in a more suitable place, and I will support it fully. Tesco dont do anything for anything other then profit, so anyone who thinks its done to help customers is badly mistaken; this multi-billion pound company hasnt even been arsed to fix the water pump in the petrol station in Bidston for over a month now, and the air pump has now been off for over a week; yeah, every little helps... Tesco! They wont spend the money till there is a certain level of complaints, cos holding out on paying for things like that (which make thier customers life much easier) make them interest, which in turn makes them profits. Funny how the shell down the road never has any problems keeping their air compressor maintained...
This wont bother me too much anyway, as I dont shop at Asda, and its not often I shop at "sociable" times. Even at night, I refuse to park in a disabled space. I dont care either way about a parent and child space, if its there to be take, it is. There is plenty of the "required" space a bit further down the car park, in bay 2 and the overflow (both of which are more suitable as they have far less traffic using them) that parents can use, but refuse to, instead they refuse to walk the distance... its the disabled that are disabled, not parents with kids.
And another thing I dont agree with is the governments stupid rules over parents not being allowed to get disabled badges when they have disabled children; in my view, anyone who is registered as disabled should be eligable for a disabled badge, and if under 18, the legal guardian should be automatically eligable for the badge.
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#194813 - 14th Jan 2008 1:05pm
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: jonno40]
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Civic_Coupe_Sean
Forum Master
 
Registered: 12th Oct 2006
Posts: 2667
Loc: Wirral
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Yeah i agree with Matty here, Well said mate 
As for the parking down mine and bens road thats just crap, I myself got a ticket the other day cause i couldnt find anywhere to park so i put it on the yellows like "everyone" else does around here lol
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#196505 - 20th Jan 2008 8:55am
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: StuyMac]
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WADDI
Forum Master
 
Registered: 11th Jul 2004
Posts: 2778
Loc: Wallasey
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How are they going to police the Parent and child spaces tho:
- At what age does the privilage of using the the "parent and child" spaces expire, me and my mum are parent and child.
- You arrive without a child, park in a baby space, tell the attendant "My (partner) is already inside with our baby, I just went to get petrol."
- You leave without a child, "I had my child with me when I arrived but I have to go now and my partner has continued shopping inside keeping the child with her".
Disabled space policing is as easy as the blue badge system, but that isnt without its faults.
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#196510 - 20th Jan 2008 9:01am
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: WADDI]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
 
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16177
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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In Tesco, they used to have a badge system, but the badges were far too easy to get. Im not sure if they still run it?
I think Asda are just doing this as a marketing trick; if parents think they are going be looked after better and have more preference over normal shoppers, and Asda are seen to be enforcing it, they are hoping that it will attract even more parents to choose them.
What they havent accounted for is the backlash that any fine's issued will bring; and they have just made sure customers like myself stay away, as they are making it clear that they dont give a toss about normal customers, it's all about getting the bigger spenders through the door.
Funny how its parents with kids that get everything, and we all know that baby stuff and kid's toys are amongst the most profitable things in a supermarket...
The price of baby stuff is an absolute rip off, I wonder if parents take into account how high the markup is on these items when they are supporting the supermarkets for supposedly "helping" parents with children by offering these spaces...
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#199139 - 23rd Jan 2008 10:46pm
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: MattLFC]
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Alex85
Enthusiast
Registered: 29th Aug 2007
Posts: 110
Loc: Wirral
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It may be out of order to park in a disabled bay, but if i caught someone criminally damaging my car with a trolley, disabled or not, he'd be on his arse.
Anyhow, these private parking companies can put as many 'invoices' for payment on my car as they like, they are legally unenforceable and anyone legally minded knows this.
With regards to parking in child and parent spaces, i will park in them anyway, until people start showing respect for other peoples cars in that they are careful when they open their doors etc, then i will also start showing a little respect with where i park.
I'm happy to be called a prick if it saves me having to get my car fixed after some tosser bashes their door into it.
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#199144 - 23rd Jan 2008 10:48pm
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: Alex85]
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Alex85
Enthusiast
Registered: 29th Aug 2007
Posts: 110
Loc: Wirral
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Just to add, the disabled badge scheme in itself is a disgrace. Ive got a couple of mates with disabled badges, no less able than you and me.
In a perfect world, perhaps this would work, in the world we live in, it wont make a difference.
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#200343 - 24th Jan 2008 6:26pm
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: MattLFC]
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Alex85
Enthusiast
Registered: 29th Aug 2007
Posts: 110
Loc: Wirral
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Well look at it this way, if you paint double yellows on your driveway and start charging people who park on it - do you really think you could take them to court and get them to pay?
The legal reasons stem from the fact that it is these fines fall under contract law and not criminal law; contract law requires offer and acceptance.
Therefore, the contract is formed with the driver, not the registered keeper and as such, when Asda send you as the RK of the vehicle a reminder note etc, my usual reply is please let me know the name of the driver with whom you formed the contract with and i will pass this notice on asap.
Thats the simple method... i usually send the following letter (ive had a few of these private parking fines);
To whom it may concern [Add their title and address}
I am in receipt of your letter dated [insert the date] alleging that a vehicle registered to me parked somewhere it shouldn’t have within a private car park [insert details as required]
As I am sure you will be aware, it is the driver of the vehicle with whom any contract to park was made, not the Registered Keeper and as such I will also require confirmation of who the driver was that made the contract with you.
You will also be aware that the terms of any such contract must be set out in such a manner as to be obvious to anyone with whom you wished to make the contract. These terms must comply with all applicable contract law, such as the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.
Should you wish to pursue this claim, please supply evidence that the person parking the vehicle you allege to have overstayed the set duration would have had the opportunity to read the contract terms. Such evidence must be, as a minimum:
* a detailed route and timings of the vehicle's travel into and through the vehicle park; * a detailed route of the driver's passage out of the vehicle and into the store - this and the evidence listed immediately above are to show that the driver had reasonable opportunity to see and read the contract terms; * photographs of all relevant signage in situ in locus in quo at the time of the alleged overstaying so as to show that the signs were actually readable; * an accurately-drawn, scaled, map showing the location of each sign and indicating which you believe the driver would have had the easy opportunity to read (the routes of the vehicle and driver should be superimposed upon the map); * details of the weather conditions at the time, in particular the visibility (all to be confirmed by the Meteorological Office); * sufficient details of the driver with whom you claim to have made a contract to enable their unique identification; * a detailed description of the processes followed to record and analyse the evidence of the alleged overstaying; and * a notarised statement from a senior manager at the store to the effect that your recording and analytical systems were working normally at the time of the alleged overstaying.
Without the above, I cannot entertain your claim and any further demands for payment will be considered harassment and will be reported to the police with a view to your criminal prosecution under s1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1998, s85 of the Postal Services Act 2000, s127 of the Communications Act 2003, and/or s2 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 - this last with a view to the court issuing a Restraining Order against you. Additionally, civil action will be taken against you personally and your employer to cease and desist and for the recovery of all costs, together with a substantial payment in compensation for the mental pain and suffering caused.
I expect your reply by return, either providing the evidence requested above or indicating simply your termination of this correspondence.
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#200349 - 24th Jan 2008 6:36pm
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: Alex85]
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MattLFC
Wiki Master
 
Registered: 14th Aug 2004
Posts: 16177
Loc: Moreton/E.Port
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Haha quality mate, nice one for posting that! Im pretty sure there will be some people who find that very useful with the introduction of these fine's, but also other "private" parking fines.
Say they clamped your car for parking in a parent and chile bay, is there any legal way around this? Is it the same, its not actually lawful for them to do it and they would have to release without payment?
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#200586 - 25th Jan 2008 12:51am
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: Mark]
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Alex85
Enthusiast
Registered: 29th Aug 2007
Posts: 110
Loc: Wirral
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Another angle, once you get the "notice to owner" for not paying it is to remind them that by them writing to you and telling you that as the registered keeper you are liable for the ticket is that they are actually guilty of "attempting to obtain money by deception" - they are trying to make you pay up with illegal threats as you are not liable in the slightest, the driver is. Even if this is you, they have addressed the letter wrong.
Also "notice to owner" is a legal term - they cant use it anymore than you or I can.
There has been much discussion on this, that i have been privy to. Another option is to park where you like with a piece of paper on the windscreen stating something along the lines of "the driver of this vehicle does not accept any contract terms whatsoever, implied or otherwise by parking here".
I have also heard of people writing back to the private car parking company stating that they would be willing to disclose the drivers identity for a one-off fee of £x (which is more than the ticket itself).
Also be aware that these guys may well sell the debt onto a debt collection company who WILL write to you with the usual rubbish. If this happens, simply send a recorded delivery letter to them informing them that the debt is currently being disputed and ask them to refer back to their client. Simple.
Clamping is another ball game, i would recommend if this did happen, pay the release fee by credit card then get the CC to dispute the charge using the details i posted above.
You could also cut the clamp off, and return it to the company with an offer to pay for the damages, a cut chain costs next to nothing - if you do this then you cant be done for criminal damage, as you have offered to fix the damage you caused and the police wont have any inclination to prosecute someone who has been so cooperative. I have seen this work.
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#207436 - 17th Feb 2008 8:44am
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: Mark]
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Bixmis7
Newbeee
Registered: 16th Feb 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: Wallasey
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Where else can I park? I can't find the single fat bloke over 50's bay 
I read the as from 1 March 08, that the evidence collected on CCTV will be enough grounds to send you a ticket in the post. Scary
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#207455 - 17th Feb 2008 10:36am
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: MattLFC]
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WADDI
Forum Master
 
Registered: 11th Jul 2004
Posts: 2778
Loc: Wallasey
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Just seen a sandwich board in asda, explaining the new fines system. The Parent and Child spaces are able to be used by anyone with a child up to the age of 12 and using some sort of child seat including a booster seat.
My eldest is only 2 so obviously still needs me to put her in her seat and strap her in. So a little question for those with older kids,at what age can they sort themselves out in regards to seat belts etc. As I think 12 years old for a parking space that is widely referred to as a Baby space is
IMHO they should just get rid of all the parent and baby spaces and make all the spaces wider, and thats coming from someone with 2 babies that often uses the said spaces. then just have the disabled spaces near the door.
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#207479 - 17th Feb 2008 1:35pm
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: chiccy]
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WADDI
Forum Master
 
Registered: 11th Jul 2004
Posts: 2778
Loc: Wallasey
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So would you agree that 12 years old is a bit excessive for the right to use a parent and child parking space. should be more like 6,7 or 8max
once they can climb in the car themselves, sit down properly in their seat and strap themselves in, why else would you need the widened space?
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#216552 - 14th Mar 2008 9:13pm
Re: car park fines.....
[Re: WADDI]
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Alex85
Enthusiast
Registered: 29th Aug 2007
Posts: 110
Loc: Wirral
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i'll still be using them as i have very large doors and im not getting car park dings full stop.
fine me if you can!!
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Moderator: Mark
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