i might be after a part time mechanic soon,

wages minimum wage for age, depending on experence,

pm sent

Im sorry if you take offence at this but WTF!!

2-3 years training as a mechanic to earn minimum wage? Where is the payoff in that for the training that has been undertaken? Why should someone train for 3 years to earn minimum wage when they can work in the shop on the corner and earn that from day 1?

Do you think nurses should get minimum wage?

Minimum wage after 3 years training is a joke!!

Would be ideal for someone coming to the end of College/training who's looking for part time work to get very valuable experience.

Must have lots of business Chris!? Not suprised though - good, honest worker who doesn't rip you off and doesn't mess you about

I Guarentee there will be a large number of people who would snap this job up im sure a young lad whos just finished training would love to do this for minimum wage. I dont see what your complaining about to be honest

I served my apprenticeship for 5 years as an precision engineer, and there is no pay back in that, the money is very poor for what we do, BUT in hindsight (being a wonderful thing it is) I wish I had served my time as a mechanic! So its not a bad thing. We in engineering as a company try to get £35.00 an hour plus materials. The garage side of things can make allot more than that, some main dealers charge £86.00 an hour! That is not saying I earn £35.00 an hour, I dont get twice the miniumum wage per hour.

So you would be happy to train for 3 years only to come out of it and earn less than you could do flipping burgers?

Yes. Then work you're way up.

It annoys me when the news are saying 'oh no, no jobs for all the people coming out of university' bollocks. There are loads of jobs out there. What they mean is 'No high paying jobs for these people to go straight into because there don't want to have to gain experience first'

Hang on, as a trainee mechanic you would have already spent 2-3 years getting the experience on the job.

Like Ive said do we expect nurses to work for minimum wage?

Or take it further, do we expect doctors and solicitors to work for minumum wage when they start?

In the current economic climate and with 5 million unemployed, there will always be employers who take advantage of the situation. In one way the minimum wage has protected workers from unscrupulous employers who would still pay sweat shop wages of £2 an hour. On saying that it also gives employers the impression that as long as they pay at least the minimum wage thats also ok and acceptable. If you pay peanuts your going to get monkeys, i couldn't look a fellow trades person in the eyes if i wasn't paying the going rate that reflects their skills.

With pay offers like minimum wage we will end up with a country full of unskilled labour because no one will see the benefit in spending 3 years training to come out and earn less than a burger flipper.

Well said Bert

To start off with yes i would. simple answer

And therein lies the problem. If you are prepared to undervalue the skills learned then employers are going to undervalue the skills a whole lot longer.

What should be asked, is an employer going to get the best out of someone who takes a job on low wages out of desperation. Anyone who takes a job on minimum wage knowing full well they should be on twice as much and possibly more are not going to put their heart and soul in to their work, so it pays the employer to pay a decent wage.

The flip side of the coin - Someone inexperienced takes the job albeit on minimum wage, works hard & shows the boss that they are worthy of a higher wage.

Remember what the original post said.

"wages minimum for age, DEPENDING ON EXPERIENCE"

If you've got the experience & can show the potential employer you will be of value, then salary can be negotiated.

Well said Bert1 !!

Right put this into my perspective.

your are 18 and just left an apprenticeship, You cant even get a job working in mcdonalds (and most people leaving school / apprentiships cant) you need some work and someone offers you minimum wage to help out in a garage.

Would you not take it?

I know i would.

Yes, BUT some employers will just take advantage that the person is actually working for as little as possible so why pay them more when they dont have too? More money in the bosses dividend at the end of year!!

£5.93 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over
£4.92 - the 18-20 rate
£3.64 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18
£2.50 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship


The above are the minimum wage rates, traditionally the rates for serving an apprenticeship have always been low, it was in my apprenticeship days, however when i come out of my time the rates almost doubled, i don't know what the going rate is for a time served mechanic, but i bet its a lot more than £5.93.

Karl, I can completely understand your POV, I really can. But after 3 years of training on the job,earning £2.50 per hour, already behind them is it not fair to expect a fair days wage for a fair days work?

Looking on the jobseekers website there are jobs on there £10 per hour and upwards.

Its also worth bearing in mind that in the UK a mechanic is expected to have his own tools (how earning between £2.50 and minimum wage per hour they are expected to get their own tools is beyond me).

This potential job is a great opportunity for a young lad/lass to start on the bottom rung, learn the basics of a decent trade, keep their nose clean & earn a little cash to boot.

As a young 17 year old lad my old man got me a job chasing chickens in rural Lincolnshire. I lasted 20 minutes before I thumbed a lift into the city & joined the Army as a mechanic. The chicken chaser paid better money but the potential of a trade paid dividends.

There is a main dealer in Brombourough that pays thier "Master tech" £12.50 an hour plus overtime. (No names mentioned)

I think Special K hit the nail on the head.

Contrary to what you may think Hiekel_Essterol (ah I just got it) I do agree with you!
My girlfriend spent 3 years college/training/placements etc
She's only getting minimum wage and has been at the place for a few years! hopefully she can negotiate her pay or move on somewhere else... It's better than her being out of work as it will look better on her cv...

As i said before, wages have always been low for trainees, not saying its right but thats the way it is. The problem is when a persons skills are not recognised when fully skilled.

I think it must take into consideration how much work and what is expected there and for how long (also whether cards in or not)also reading posts about chrisgilly by other members have said he does a good and very reasonably priced job.
May do for someone unemployed wanting to get a bit of cash in the runup to xmas

Yes its one thing for wages to be low while training. What you dont make in money you gain in invaluable experience and education on the job.

However when its acceptable to pay minimum wage for the experience and skills earned thats another thing.

If the OP is looking to take someone and train them etc thats one thing. But he is asking for a mechanic for minimum wage. Mechanic to me is someone fully trained. ANd like I have said, why train for 3 years to earn minimum wage when you can do that after 3 minutes training.

Well said Bert1 !! Bang on.

Hopefully ChrisGilly can elaborate further regarding what he might be after then.

I personally don't think he is after a time served mechanic who he can pay on the cheap. Rather a youngun who can help clean the place clean, make a brew & give a hand whilst learning the ropes.

Good on him.

And if that is indeed the case I will say fair play to the guy.

But as things stand now, it looks like he is after a mechanic to me.

We wait with baited breath.

I bet chrisgilly will catch up with all the replies & think "fook this for a game of soldiers (or mechanics)"

I doubt it, just think of all the free advertising hes getting.

No one is being forced to take the job....

TBH If I were qualified and on the dole, Id rather be out getting paid minimum wage, and getting more experience than sitting at home bludging off the tax payer.

I worked for ACS,Auto Commercial Services, pump rd/ lane ,dock four bridges,
Was a Apprentice diesel fitter 1974, Took home less than £15 a week,with 4 hours OT Saturday (Worked 44hours a week)

1977 I got £4.50p rise, married mans wage took home less,£18 a week,

I left ACS started in a garage as car mechanic, (got the same money for working 40 hours)

After that me and joncon worked together repairing cars for years in a garage

By the way john i still have the garages.

I understand that while training wages are going to be low. They were when I trained.

1993-1996 I trained as a mechanic taking home £35 per week. I was keyholder for the garage, opened and closed the place each day, and for half the day I was the only person there as the owner was at another garage doing MOT's. All for £35 per week.

Once qualified I went to him and asked for a raise. I asked for £4 per hour. I was offered £50 per week. Tell me thats fair after 3 years of training.

Sitting on your rump for half a day, everyday whilst the boss was away AND got £50 a week?

Sounds a good number to me!


(only messing Hiekel)

Did you continue to work for him?

Haha, no. I left and went to a breakdown/recovery company where I was offered more money.

that wage is a joke i have to agree , my brother is a fully qualified mechanic and hes on 12.00 an hour so for min wage its a total insult.

Dont blame you matey.

OK as has benn pointed out, Chris said minimum wage, or dependable on experience, so lets say a young trainee just left college wants a start it is a good way in, if you are very experienced doing the job in half the time then I am sure Chris would see that asap and improve wages accordingly.

If you have been to his garage it is a little unit and not a big huge main garage, I dont think (although I may be wrong) that where he is based it woulod be people with 04-07 plate cars going there but people with older cars who are after a good cheap mechanic who is trying to buld a buisness.

Chris if I offended you in this post then sorry I am not saying you are small time but was trying to say you are starting of and also giving someone the chance of a job, if people dont want it they need not apply.

If wage is dependent on experience why put this

Minimum wage for age is one thing. Wage dependent on experience is another.

Im sorry, I still dont see minimum wage for someone just left college as acceptable. If they have left college, they completed their training. That means they have spent the last 2-3 years on minimum wage, and possible one of those earning just £2.50 per hour!!!

So a fair wage for someone fully qualified would not be minimum wage.

I will ask again, do we also expect newly qualified nurses to work for minimum wage? Do we expect newly qualified doctors to work for minimum wage?

On the same argument should anyone work for minimum wage? If I had just qualified and was looking for a way in this would be a chance, when/if something better comes along and you go for interview it is much better to have been busy doing the job then not.

At the end of it a member here has said he may be able tooffer someone some work and in the times we are in that can only be good and I dont feel he deserves this crap being posted, I would suspect that if he were to pay someone £12-£15 per hour he would be losing out himself, and he only opened up in Jan this year I believe.

haha! sorry to cause an arguement guys! i was looking for a young lad/ just qualified to start off with, as its not full time just a call in job with no set hours, so wouldnt suit someone looking for full time

cheers kimpri bud got the pm and will be in touch!

chocker lately phil!

My son would be interested in this and probably most of the students currently at wirral met, he has gained NVQ level 1 and 2 in transport engineering and currently working towards level 3.

A lot of the jobs in IT locally are pathetic wages locally - the problem is because of supply and demand (there are far more qualified people looking for the jobs, than there is jobs available), and also because of a lot of the customers of companies taking on, are cutting back their IT budgets massively etc...

I reguarly see jobs for web designers at minimum wage... A good web developer may have spent upwards of 7 years hard graft, and is in a constant learning trade where if they take their finger off the pulse for even a few days, they struggle to keep up and adapt with new technologies... hell, I can demand £35+ per hour for developing a website/database, and people are taking on for minimum wage at 18 hours per week and the like...

Exactly the same with other sectors of the IT industry, minimum wage jobs to become an IT engineer, be it shop based or even in some field engineer jobs, when I was training the wages back then (2002) were like £25 per hour upwards, I can't believe what I am seeing.

Even *nix admins are taking a hit nowadays, I used to charge $40 and that was seen as mega-cheap (some companies and chaps charge €45 per 15 minutes for example), but I reguarly see Freelancers offering their services for sub-$10 per hour, or jobs being put out to tender and reasonably established companies quoting $50 for a job expecting to take circa-4 hours. This isnt sue to the weak pound, as the industry tends to work in dollars based on the USD rather than the pound or eurozone.

It's a crazy world we live in, but I agree, id rather be working my ass off on £5.93 per hour and staying in a job, keeping a wage coming in and keeping myself within the industry than being on the dole for 6 months or more - by which time, potential employers will begin to feel you are possibly too great a risk to employ for a number of reasons.

It's always easier to get a job if you are already in one, and have a sustained and proven track record, than if you are jobless. People who are long-term unemployed, become un-employable. A low-paid job may only be viewed as a stop-gap, during which time there is nothing to stop the person looking for a better paid job!

Besides which, in general, people in this country do need to get off their high-horses a bit and stop thinking they are worth millions, they are worth whatever the market is offering to pay them, and if they are too stubborn/stupid to think that the ever-changing market rate is too low a wage for them to be arsed, then they are no use to this country anyway. I have domain names that are valued at like $6000 simply because of their placing within search engines etc... do I honestly think I would get that? No way in hell, not in todays market, more likely £500 maybe less!! Anything, be it a service, a skill, or a trade, is only worth, what someone is willing to pay for it; just because your name is John Smith for instance, does not, imho, make your plubming worth £20 per hour, when Kamil Frawenski will do the same job, to the same standard, and with less tea-breaks, for £8 per hour!

Lol listen to you lot!

A jobs a job, beggars carnt be choosers, deal with it and stop your wining!
If you don't want the job do one!

I think what is being overlooked here is that if minimum wage didn't exist then a lot of the above arguments fall into pieces - everybody would be working for nothing.

While there are skilled people prepared to work for minimum wage then they are not only undervaluing themselves but also effectively reducing other peoples wages.

Its not solely the employers fault, but also short-sighted employees who are happy to be walked over instead of joining unions and getting a FAIR wage for their skills.

Its the same as any transaction, if you continually sell things at a loss, you are doing nobody any favours. You lose money, the competition can't compete and the buyer revels in the market you have created yourself - but many would just moan about losing money.

I could give you a hand after work when needed 15 years experience good enough

pm me Chris

Good post DD, one thing that never changes is human nature, once an employer gets your value down to less than half it used to be, it will take years to get it back up, most employers love this type of situation we are in, in the long run if they devalue peoples skills, those skills will no longer exist. Why would they when they can get the same money flipping carpet burgers.

agree

lol hahahahahhahhahaah lol

lol hahahahahhahhahaah lol

A job is a job? Correct, you do what you need to do and lots of factors come into play. If you keep working then something else eventually comes along and you don't turn into a lard arse in the mean time. I'm speaking from experience. I've worked on the buses, car building lines, picked sprouts, picked potatoes, weeded cornfields. Worked on a cut meats production line and moved to a pork pie factory doing packing. Some of these jobs were before the minimum wage, so I consider the minimum wage mamby-pambies to be lucky b......ds. Don't get me wrong, I think it is good that conditions have improved but by the same token we are bringing up people who think everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. Life isn't like that and you end up being a social dependant if you think it is.