http://www.housing.org.uk/policy/social_inclusion_and_welfare/welfare_reform.aspx

Not yet, what is crazy though is that it only effects council or housing association home tenants? So if you have lived in a council house for years and kids have left home you are doomed.

However if you have just moved in as a couple to a private landlord (who are normally 10% more expensive) have spare bedrooms and still claim Housing & Council Tax benefit it seems you are ok.

Crazy messed up idea with good intentions but not thought out.

2 different homes near me both have at least 1 disabled person in the couple, home adapted for the disabilities so they can stay in family home, both have grown up kids now left, both have 2 rooms that will be part of this bedroom tax. One of these has lived in the home for 37 years and it's a disgrace that now they may well be forced out.

and farther reading looks like its also going to have a knock on effect for builders/landlords as there are a lot of single people who will only need 1 bed properties and not many builders build 1 beds, its going to cause a lot of debts and homelessness for people already struggling

what about all the animals that may need re homing due to their owners being forced into one bed flats, where animals aren't allowed?

My disabled mate is going to be getting stung for 2 rooms at roughly £20 per week

I'm stumped as to why this Tax does not apply to Private Accomodation. It's madness.

this tax should apply to all types of properties private or social housing, its not fair as it is.

Yikes.

well they reckon your best down sizing now as come april 2013 there will be a rush for one bed places

one person in a two bed property will have to pay aprox £14-£16pw out of £67.50 so they'll have £50ish to pay all domestic bills, most peeps cant afford to put heating on as it is

Love it!

I went on when it became property pool they said I could only have a one bed property but Im allowed a three bed because Ive got joint custody by mutual agreement & the child benefit is in my name but Idon't know wether I'll have to pay the extra yet but my ex will pay the extra if it happens.

Yet another legal scam :@

I was listening to a conversation on the radio about this with mixed views.

If your over 60 you may be excluded.
But a guy who was worried about his 2 bed living on his own was worried because his spare room was full of crap he couldn't possibly down size to a one bed.

But what did come out of it was that it's still not in stone all the rules nor exactly what the bedroom tax would be.
And the callers were advised to call there housing associations for the latest updates.

Not much help, but there will be winners and losers with all the changes.

Im on the housing list & I can only bid on three bedroom houses even though I could get away with a two bedroom still we'll find out next year

i live in a house that was built over 100yrs ago and it wasnt designed to house all the things that we have/need in the modern world so my spare room has my big old pc and printer in it as well as my drier. bedding and some kitchen equipment etc as the downstairs rooms are tiny!

thought there was a housing shortage, were are all these one-bed flats going to come from, not been thought through properly

Reading with Interest we have a 3 bedroom house according to the council, wifes disabled , Im her carer 24/7 we recieve full H/Benefit so anyone know whats happening with us as I read the link Rocks put up in post 1 and cannot make head nor tail of it

probably have to pay 25% of your rent, Red as you have two 'excess' bedrooms.

This may be better Red Link but dont dare look at Wirral updates Here .

Crazy rules, different for private landlords (they will be able to milk it now), and also different depending on who your council is as it's only guide's set and I will hazard a guess the WBC will decide to use the highest available.

In private rentals you only get paid enough benefit to cover the amount of bedrooms you need. Its called L.H.A. So really, its council housing catching up with private rentals.

see here for a download of a leaflet thats been produced


To support housing associations communicate changes in housing benefit to their tenants, we have produced an information leaflet. The leaflet has information about the main changes, who will be affected and who tenants can contact to get help and advice.

The leaflet is available to download now (PDF, 1.2 MB, opens new window).

http://www.housing.org.uk/publications/find_a_publication/general/housing_benefit_changes.aspx

Are you sure that this is current legislation? I know somebody who applied for housing benefit and they were given a figure of the upper limit of the rent they could claim but there was no mention of the number of bedrooms?

Fair enough I honestly never knew that, I just seen the wording in the new tax one and noticed it only applied to council/housing associations.

Sorry folks but not to be controversial but because I have a voice and an opinion, I agree with it.
Why should I, as a working person who pays tax, NI and the bloody rest, pay for someone to live in a 3 bed house and only use 1 bedroom!
People may have their own reasons for claiming housing tax benefit to get their "free" home but I have to earn mine and pay it myself, so please forgive me for not giving a toss that some estimated 660,000 working-age social tenants – 31% of existing working-age housing benefit claimants - will have to pay extra.

I get nothing back from the State. I pay 40% of my wage to Tax and another 11% to NI, thats over 50% of my wages gone before I see a single penny of it. Yes I am fortunate enough to have a job but bugger me if we only just make ends meet!
I can't afford a foreign holiday every year and have a 9 year old car, so if by paying your way for "spare" rooms then hopefully this will alleviate the burden on the tax payers of this country.
Oh! I only have a 2 bedroom ex-council house which is pretty big enough for both the wife and me and our teenage son.

Please everyone don't take this as any sort of personal attack but just my point of view and probably of many of other people on here just not willing to air their views.

years ago (late 60s early 70s) the council used to help you down size as i remember my grand parents having a 3bed on the woodchurch and were told they no longer needed the extra space as their children had left home and the council moved them into a 1bed in rock ferry, im sure they wernt too happy about it at the time but it didnt hit them in their pocket and they were "helped" to down size the problem this time around is that even if some tenants dont mind down sizing there just isnt enough 1bed properties to meet the demand and as already mentioned what about people with animals? there really is a much bigger picture that will emerge

I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion, but I'm having difficulty with the idea that you pay 40% of your wage in tax.
Personal allowance £8105, then 20% tax on the next £34,370, so you only pay 40% on earnings over £42,475

Personal allowance £8105, then 20% tax on the next £34,370, so you only pay 40% on earnings over £42,475

i do have a good job!

Well, I'm happy for you. You may pay some tax at 40% but to say that "I pay 40% of my wage to tax" is incorrect and therefore weakens your argument.

I dont think that the people at the bottom have bankrupted this country, its the people at the top who've done all the damage. Then they get everyone to blame the poor.

Common sense says it's a good idea.

I just find it morally wrong that a couple who have been in the house for say 25 years or more, whose kids have now left home, may have worked for 35 years paying taxes but lose their jobs in recession, then could lose the FAMILY home because of a bedroom tax, they may have only been claiming benefit's for a matter of months.

Seriously needs reviewing.

This Corrupt Government would back down on this if everyone affected got out in numbers and protested, even Rioted (if needs be) like the French and many other Countries do. But sadly as a nation we are a load of shit and have a little moan to eachother or online but dont take it any further!!
This Government know we are weak and this is why they are gonna destroy as many working class as they possibly can before Labour get back in power in 2015.

yes kevin,we should make more of a stand with issues and govt resolutions, strength in numbers, govt policies concern us all at some point solidarity everyone,

All these welfare benefit changes are aimed at making the system fairer, so the "working" class man is better off than people who have no intention of working!

I'm sick of people on benefits moaning,you've got everything a roof over your head,food, clothes and most prob every kind of gadget going!!

My Bold.

Not all have every kind of gadget going. I'm one of those on benefits at the moment (I worked for 22 years before going on them). Yes I do have a roof over my head, but I still have to pay towards my rent every week out of my benefits. The "gadgets" I do have, like my tv and laptop, belong to a friend of mine but he gave me them to make my life a bit more comfortable and allow me to communicate with the outside world as there are times when I am housebound. My new washing machine was bought by my Mum as mine broke and I can't not have one. I saved every available penny so that I could buy a shower and have it fitted as I can't use a bath. The bath is too narrow to have a bath lift like I had in my previous home.

I don't have any games consoles, big scouse telly etc. My tv is an old big clumpy thing but it does the job.

You're more than welcome to my benefits, but you'll have to have my disabliity too I'll gladly swap!!

Sorry wasn't aimed at disabled people, just those who have "no intention of working."

No worries. I just used my case as an example that not everyone on benefits is a "scrounger" (my word, not yours).

I have a "spare" bedroom, but my Mum stays when I have my surgeries or am unwell with a flare up. I think I'll be ok when this is brought in, but if not I will have to find another £54 a month from somewhere.

I'm lucky really as one of my illnesses means all I can eat is plain pasta, boiled rice, lettuce and boiled chicken or fish so my food shopping bill has been reduced and will pay for that. It'll be even less if it turns out to be "nasty" as chemo tends to make you feel like crap and not want to eat.

This isn't just about "those who dont want to work" it is about EVERYONE who claims Housing Benefit and some do work and claim it by right due to low wages.

Should a couple who have worked, have grown up kids, still live in same house that is family home that they have put money in lose the home as they have a spare room.

Those who are saying it will free up homes I have another thought and please think about . . . those you believe dont want to work but want to keep their home will breed even more, for longer and will claim even more benefit's for the next generation of offspring, they would sooner do that causing a bigger defecit than lose the home. Whilst this is happeneing the honest family with grown up kids will lose their home?

Maybe I am wrong but a good idea in principal, but an idea that will never be fair.

There is going to be a cap on benefits,so hopefully more breeding will not be an option!

I'm sure a lot of people may not want to downsize,but needing extra bedrooms to house driers and pc's etc doesn't cut it with me.

So do you feel a family whose kids have left home should lose the house they have lived in for 30+ years?

They won't lose their home,they have a choice.

Do you feel its right for some families to live in B&B,hostels often living in one room?

What choice? find £100 a month out of benefit's of possibly £500 per couple are you mad?

No it's not right that some families to live in B&B,hostels often living in one room? but that again is a GOVT mix up when years ago the started selling of the houses they now need, selling at reduced rates of upto 60% to help people get on the property ladder.

And if you think the benefit cap will stop the rouge's claiming for more kids and finding ways around the system you are being very niave.

There's going to be winners and losers,but this country needs a good shake up!

Yep the winners will be the hardfaced ones who can play the system, the losers will be the honest ones who wont know where to turn.

I think all the new welfare reforms will make it harder/less beneficial for system players.

It does but its the top 10% that needs it!

some people have spent years and a lot of money doing their homes up and making them comfortable for their old age and as for moving people into 1bed flats the disabled will need groundfloor flats, not many of them about!!!

It would appear that the whole 'b' country has gone mad.
Gone are the days late 60's/70's and 80's when renting became a thing of the past. A high percentage of young married couples could get a mortgage and set up home. Then the interest rate rocketed and saw many loose their homes. Now if anyone can find an affordable rented property, they are about to be penalised for it if there are one too many bedrooms. Where does the figure of earnings of £500 per week picture in this? Is that the lower income bracket in London and the South East? I find that quite a substantial sum for this part of the world.

This vaguely reminds me of when my children were young and still at school. Daughter aged five had a letter sent home about a group of French schoolchildren coming to stay in the area.They wanted beds and living provided for them (all aged 5yrs) We offered to take two little girls and they were very sweet , until I caught them telephoning mummy in Paris, lying on my bed with my house phone in one hand!
Anyway, there were about 40 children dotted around in various homes and each night the teachers did the rounds. None of these children would sleep in the beds provided, they would all get on the floor to sleep.
It turned out that none of them had bedrooms of their own and none of them had beds to sleep in. A mattress on the floor was all they knew.
So is this something we have to look forward to for our own children? If a couple have one child and three bedrooms, do they have to move to a smaller home? Next year they have twins, are they able to move again or will there not be anything for them? Not too sure but f this is likely to happen, all this piss potting around of moving house ,moving schools is about to become more of a social problem to add to the mountainous heap that's already in existence. It's also fairly impossible to get a deposit together today ,even if you would wish to move.

Now can anybody please tell me if I've got it all wrong?

We have a similar problem in NSW but it more of a reverse thingy. Let me explain.

All State Government housing(Housing Commssion) is run by the State authority eg. Dept of Housing, all benefits are paid by the Federal Government. So it would be impossible to bring in something like the Bedroom Tax. But, Govt. housing is still being rorted. By people who were unemployed but now have good jobs and only pay minimum rent - denying eligible people a home. Also pensioners living in 3-4 bedroom, Housing Commission homes are also taking home from families. The problem now is that there are not enough Housing Commission properties to move people around. In NSW the waiting list is about 50,000, other states have similar issues. So the issue of eligible housing is universal and not easily sorted. Your situation is unique as I beleive all public housing is council owned and the councils do as they are told. Here however the Federal Government would never get that legislation through and is they did the States would tell them to bugger off. Sorry to be so long winded. But, the upshot is that the mechanics of the plan are sound we can all see that but the personal side is diabolical. There are a myriad of other alternatives to this but the squires in Whitehall still want to keep control and they will get their way just like they have for hundreds of years.
That's it rant over - now where's my pills.

you are spot on granny with what you say.

Thanks Sunnyside, I feel better for that but doubt very much if, those whom it concerns ,do.

Perhaps if the gov had prepared and build masses of 1 bedroom flats and houses for everyone to move in to it wouldn't be so bad...There are not enough grants to make such small pointless places though and its very anti family.

Mindplayer, what is an average rent over there for 2 up 2 down property (private ownership) say in Port Sunlight..if you know it. I am assuming you used to live here and know the area generally. It's about £650 per month now in P.S, and rents keep going up.Yet again the Estate Agents have a lot to answer for, in the same manner as they did with house prices rocketing.(That's an issue which should be tackled).The young men in this country are all moving back home with their parents.(30 yrs plus) It would seem there is no place for many of them any longer
Everytime someone moves house the rents and deposits have increased ,yet again. Now they are likely to have to face pay more ,on what they can't aalready afford!

I have to stop, otherwise it would go on forever.Sorry.

best off your chest granny, but it is absolutely right what you say, its a vicious circle,many estate agents who do rental properties insist on a certain gross wage,before you are considered,thats fine, but where are the jobs that pay these rents?
if you can afford these sky high rents,then surely you could buy?
if the deposits went back to a more realistic level.
in all areas there are many empty long term properties,bring them back into use.

Can anyone tell me if we can sublet a bedroom(WPH) and any links for the above please TY

Red I think you can . . . however if that person works they will probably be made to pay the full rent.

o right looks like gonna have to go to one of those one stop shops for further advice cheers for that dizdazdoz

have a look at your contract, red. i doubt it, personally matey x

I would go CAB, or Dave from old resource place, he's in wallasey now if you need/want details.

thx Rude and diz can you pm me Daves contact details plz

i think i read somewhere you will be encouraged to take in lodgers but i think this will cause problems too as if a single girl starts to live with a bloke they automatically say you must be a couple and benefits wise your treated like one! so if they relax the laws to accommodate this how many couples will try and screw the system saying one a lodger, something else that they probably havnt thought through!!!!

Just a few quick thoughts on this, as I have not paid much notice of it until now....

The houses in our street are all 3 bed, some private some HA, if they rehouse all the ones that are not using all the rooms, the street will be overrun with kids

At the moment there is a nice mix of families and retired people.

Aside from that if you are grandparents and get re-housed in a one bed flat, where are all the grandkids supposed to stay when they visit over the weekends. Likewise if you are separated and have custody over weekends.

The way round it is to have more children and fill all your rooms and claim even more benefit!

Good idea Gov. in principle but you need to think it through further, maybe start with giving people the option to downsize.

haha, the government have not thought it through, each case is different,where are they going to find all the one bed places catering for disabled and frail elderly people easier said than done.

Im on the housing list now & when you bid for a property it says at the bottom you have to be aware or able to cover the amount if you have too many bedrooms.

all ares have empty properties, why not let people have them rent free so they can do them up, then charge rent , council would benefit from council tax off the property,and it would also improve the area.
i am sure their would be takers as many can't afford to buy, and some do not have enough points to qualify,we all know some empty properties by were we live.

As mentioned earlier in the topic but ignored!!!
Are this Corrupt Sick in the head government gonna pay for Animal shelter's to be built and Shelter worker's employed so that all the thousands of abandoned animals that are gonna have to be dumped (because of this pathetic heartless disaster law) can be housed and looked after for the rest of their days???
And will the Government be footing the bill for all the Suicide funerals due to the stress brought on because of this Law and the rest of the working class cuts that they are bringing in???
Because there will plenty of them!!!

the kids may not be as much trouble as the ... that might move in from mutually exchanging properties!! oh and it looks like the government have stopped supporting family values of kids staying with grandparents or family coming to stay from miles away for a weekend and the heartache that some people will go through if they have to lose their family pet to move will be detrimental for some

Me and mrs evel kineval will be going to see about this next week so will report back then guys with any info we have

i think a user plus peep should email this thread to as many local m.p's as poss!

for any wph tenants: included in your council statements received there is an article outlining this predicament of bedroom tax

CATEGORY BEDROOM REQUIREMENT
===============================================================
Single Person over 15 *********** Can have their own bedroom
Adult Couple *********** Should share a bedroom
Two children under 10 *********** Should share a bedroom
Two children 10-15 of same gender*** Should share a bedroom
Two children 10-15 of different
gender ********** Can have seperate b/rooms
Non resident o/night carer******* Can have a bedroom
===============================================================
ADDITIONAL BEDROOMS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES
===============================================================
Parents with access to children but who are not the childrens main carer

Couples who sleep in seperate bedrooms for whatever reason

Foster Children

Two children 10-15 of the same gender

Disabled children

Disabled Adults

===============================================================
Taken from the WPH Money Matters Summer 2012

Just an update folks I havent forgotten as to keeping all in loop just been unable to attend resource due to ill health but will hopefully be going next week

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Paul_Higgins/?caWNWbb

Thanks Rocks

http://www.disabilitynow.org.uk/latest-news2/news-focus/legal-threat-to-government-from-charities

http://www.facebook.com/groups/antibedroomtax

I may be a stupid question to some.

What is social housing for?

this may help you http://england.shelter.org.uk/campa...ng_social_housing/what_is_social_housing

thanks winxy, excellent web site well laid out and easy to use.

25% for me although its MY house absolute joke!

If anybody here will be affected by Bedroom Tax, please email me 'how' as I am gathering evidence to submit to a Council Scrutiny Review Panel that I am attending- a closed meeting to be held within a fortnight.

All emails will be kept confidential.
Thankyou.

[email protected]

(Also welcome emails from organisations, charities etc).

Thanks for all the info you've provided on this Rude.

Do you know the answers to these questions please?

How will they be able to enforce this? There are only so many 1/2/3 bedroomed social housing properties available? If there is no suitable social housing accomodation available in the area you're living in, would you be expected to move some distance?

If you're in social housing because you're on min wage then your salary increases, do you have to move out or can you pay an increased amount of rent?

There's a few empty council properties by me,mine's ex council but private landlord.the people next door moved out as they had 2 young children same sex so gone to a 2 bedroom property.From what ive heard it only affects people on benefits people who are working like my sister & dont get housing benefit wont be affected

Hi Zubee

I can only attempt to answer your first question.

Wirral B.C has 0.7% of 1 bedroomed homes needed for people who 'could' downsize.

There is a group on facebook set up by a good intended wiki member for people to exchange homes, in Wirral
It's all good for 2/3 bed swaps. However, nothing for 1>3 or 3>1 swaps. Surprise surprise!

Precisley why I believe this Tax is unfair and unjust!!

What about disabled people with adjusted homes?
Pets?

Grrrr.......I'm going to Shut Up now. I could rant on and on and on

Im hoping to channel my anger and be constructive with it....

See htttp://www.facebook.com/groups/antibedroomtax

Contrary to common belief, thanks to the shit spouted in the papers, this Tax affects Low Paid Workers, not just 'Scroungers'.

xx

Thanks to those who have emailed me. Any more?

hi rudebox, i will also be affected by the bedroom tax, i have sent you a email.

I gather you do not mind paying the MPs housing benefit for their 2nd homes & the mortgage interest on their main homes?

My MP claims £18,140,00 housing benefit/expenses for her london flat per yr .The TAXPAYER IS PAYING HER TOO MUCH HOUSING BENEFIT do you think it is FAIR that people who earn the minimum wage, who receive some help with housing benefit will lose that same benefit if they have spare bedrooms, and they are subsidising HER £ 18,140.00 rent for HER london flat.
AND THEN NOT TO MENTION THE UNEMPLOYED, how on earth does this government expect the unemployed to make up the difference out of their benefits to pay the bedroom tax?. When the MPs require help from the taxpayer to pay for their accommadation

Thanks rottylady

I have to say "What a great idea"
The government need to save money "FACT!"
Why should people receive housing benefit to live in a house that's too big for them.

This may help some people.....

http://www.spareroom.co.uk/bedroomt...MBM&gclid=CMTArtb_5bQCFUbKtAodNVQAuw

To Wheels, if this is your own home then according to this you will not be affected.From this site
http://www.housing.org.uk/policy/welfare_reform/%E2%80%98under-occupation%E2%80%99_penalty.aspx

Welfare reforms will cut the amount of benefit that people can get if they are deemed to have a spare bedroom in their council or housing association home. This measure will apply from April 2013 to tenants of working age.

good luck with the meeting tomorrow night.

I worry about house sharing which is what they intend under 25 to do and i. Some instances the house/flat share will be with stangers. I wouldnt be happy with my ex partner having our child staying over if this was the case! Is doesnt seem fair as the people at the top making the decisions have never been in this position so dont understand all the consequences.
Everyone needs to get off their backsides and vote next time round as not bothering has been a vote for the Cons!

Thanks.

That's a valid point you make about children staying with parents, in a house share. It's not right.

Psyched up and Good To Go....

To those who e-mailed me, I thankyou very much.

Will email you all tomorrow and tell you what went on xxx

Not sure Salmon what you mean by 'your home'? Do you mean owned? Obviously there is no HB for owner-occupied homes so the bedroom tax doesn't apply. The issue about lodgers is very complicated. Some grown up children earn substantial and their parents HB is virtually wiped out. There may be mileage in registering as a lodger rather than a non-dep. That way your parent/s pay the bedroom tax (say £14 for one room) and save far more from the non-dep deduction. saw a post from Granpa George (if you are a real OAP?). You are exempt so it's easy for you to support it. Will you say the same when HMG comes for your heating allowance and bus pass. And incidentally the bedtax may be extended to OAPs at some time in the future (if this shower stays in office).

Quite right, considering that 52%
of under occupied properties are by people aged 55 years or over! Yet, pensioners are excempt-it makes no sense.

Blimey, only his second post and he's having a pop at people already.

I thought andrewood was opposing the point, not the person?

but........at risk of being in the Naughty Corner- some members do come across as Fake, especially when you view their early posts

www.facebook.com/groups/555921791103090

The scousers are not arsing about-these people are positivley militant. This group is less than a week old....scroll down and view Actions planned.
Multiply that throughout the country....

Maybe, whilst at it go and view this group too

www.facebook.com/groups/128721743952296

and join Wirral based group. (pinned post).

anyonewho takes a right of centre view just gets slagged off on here so there is no real debate anyway. Total waste of time.

I was trying to give Wheels some comfort as he had posted
"25% for me although its MY house frown absolute joke!"
But according to the site that I posted from this bedroom tax does not apply to own homes.
Quote :Welfare reforms will cut the amount of benefit that people can get if they are deemed to have a spare bedroom in their council or housing association home. This measure will apply from April 2013 to tenants of working age.
http://www.housing.org.uk/policy/welfare_reform/%E2%80%98under-occupation%E2%80%99_penalty.aspx.
Am I completely misreading this?

Is there a legal definition for "bedroom" in the proposed tax. Is a small box room classed as a bedroom. Is a room without a bed in it a bedroom? Apparently the Govt gave some recommendations years ago for asylum seekers stating a minimum size of room that would be classed as bedroom. Doesnt seem to be that well defined.
What surprises me is the lack of protest unlike the poll tax--have the councils managed to dumb down all their tenants.

can the bedroom tax apply to Wirral Partnership Homes--are they not a private landlord or even a separate entity to the Council?

http://speye.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/what-is-a-bedroom-and-why-landlords-dont-want-it-defined/

It does, they're the people most likely to vote!

No legal defination of what is a bedroom, its down to the Housing Ass. to define.
One 'horror case' I read-a couple in private housing -one partner could no longer make it up the stairs so he sleeps in the front room now. So what does the landlord do? He upgrades the property to a 3 bed.

What about this?

A 34 year old female who served in the Forces: she was injured In Action and recognised as Registered Blind.

She was housed in a two bedroom house but due to B.T she cannot afford to pay the 19% shortfall in rent and so her H.A have offered her a one bed flat

-25 miles away from family/ friends/ support
-on the 3rd floor

Now, she cannot have the Guide Dog that she has been asessed as needing as the Blind Ass. will put not one of their dogs in a flat.

Now, as this HEROINNE will not recieve a Guide Dog, she is considered 'fit for work'

fooking disgusting!!!

Source: www.facebook.com/groups/antibedroomtax

That example about the blind lady has to be an administrative problem. Someone not following the rules properly. Surely, she is not obliged to take that property if it's not suitable or in a suitable location.
Where does the lady live?

Is there a general shortage of social housing in Wirral at the moment, does anyone know?

Not an admin problem-no. Dorset, iirc

You want facts, Granny? I am your woman!! lol
I can chuck them at you, left right and centre..

The latest figures suggest that Wirral Borough Council and Housing Associations have 0.7%
available 1 beds for people to downsize too.

Off which, the available 1 beds -only over 55s or over 60s can apply.

It does seem to me that anybody offering a crumb of comfort or an alternative opinion on this thread is ridiculed or shouted down;e.g. my earlier post suggesting to Wheels.This suggested that he would not be adversely affected and was queried in a hostile manner with no response to my query as to whether I was misunderstanding the situation.

Eh? I have met Wheels-lovely lad, lovely family but I would not comment on an individuals private circumstances, on a public forum.
Not that I'm an expert in these matters, anyhow

I am not commenting on an individual's personal circumstance at all.Wheels said he would face a 25% increase even though it was his own home .I suggested that he would not be impacted at all and enclosed a link.My response was queried by another member in what I considered quite an aggressive manner.

She is not obliged BUT she cannot afford to pay the B.T, this is the property her council have offered her and so she is 'stuck'.

Does she:

a. remain in her home with her social network, guidedog and choose between eating, heating or rent shortfall

OR

b. move 25 miles away from social networks, in a 1 bed box on the 3rd floor, with no Guidedog (that the Blind Association have agreed that she NEEDS).

Disability premium
You must be under the qualifying age for pension credit and one of the following applies to you or your partner:
are registered as blind, or taken off that register in the past 28 weeks
are getting one of the following qualifying benefits - attendance allowance, disability living allowance (DLA), long-term incapacity benefit (IB), severe disablement allowance (SDA), the disability element or severe disability element of working tax credit, war pensioner's mobility supplement, constant attendance allowance
you are the claimant and you have been incapable of work or entitled to statutory sick pay during the qualifying period of 52 weeks (or 28 weeks if you are terminally ill) and still be incapable of work.

If you have a partner you will be paid the couple rate of this premium.

You cannot get this premium if you are getting employment and support allowance or have a limited capability for work ( You will get an additional allowance based on your employment and support allowance claim instead: see 5.2 above).

I've heard some councils have a fund to help pay the shortfall
Also some HA are considering offering a "do some work to make up your rent shortfall" scheme..in line with goverment policy .."something for something"
also some councils/HA's are offering large compo for you to move!

Anything like that in the pipeline here?

Its all part of the big plan to drive people into work and learn you are no longer getting "everything for nothing"

Not that I'm aware of Taylor4898! Heard of this re. other Councils-not ours!

I can't help feeling that this whole BT invention, is part of a much larger undisclosed issue, with a hidden agenda.

At the end of this year we have Bulgaria and Romania being granted admission to the European Union. Nobody knows how many are likely to swamp our shores, and even Eric Pickles is concerned at the possible volume of people arriving and where they are going to be placed. We all should be!
I somehow feel that this BT senario is to be put in place, prior to Dec 2013 so that each council will then have the available figures for how many properties and how many bedroom spaces they have. The councils will no doubt get back-handers in some way, for providing.
Now I'm quite prepared for anyone to come back and hit me in the jaw with this, both fists if necessary, but think about it first. Does it make sense or doesn't it?
Both hands will go up if I'm wrong!

You could well be right Granny. No doubt that Bulgarians and Romanians are looking forward to joining us in our overcrowded island.

Salmon, I should think they are rubbing their hands with glee!!
Whispering the next bit so not many can hear ..( Just hope we don't end up the same as in Rome, which is full of Romanian pick pockets) shhhh.......

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/09/romanias-roma


Off topic, but all things tend to relate in the end.

I personally think the immigration story is to detract us from social cleansing.

The scrutiny panel at the town hall heard evidence from housing associations, tenants, social services, charities and police.
Early indications suggest that all parties (including the councillors) agreed that this is a disaster, waiting to happen.

We are all going back in 6 months time for an Impact Review.

I personally think the immigration story is to detract us from social cleansing.

Come on Rudebox, get real this is England, please do not lose your case by over egging the pudding.

Is the bedroom tax unlawful? Yes it must and has to be! part 2

update from speye
http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/01/
i challenged WPH last year over size criteria for boxrooms, as my boxroom is less than 70sqft, they stated they cannot class my bedroom as a boxroom even though it is less than 70sqft and that the size criteria only applys to HMO"S, i would suggest everyone measures their smallest bed/boxroom and we should all challenge WPH and seek legal advice

Watch this space....

Heres the Gov't Death Toll, so far
(their figures)

1300-sick people placed in W.R.A.G
2200- before their ATOS assesment was completed
7100-sick people placed in the ESA Support Group.

and of course there is propoganda/ incited hatred to overcome too-anti single mum, anti benefits, anti immigrant 'shite' from The ....

Great timing since D.C is due to give his European speech

Grrr!

The devil is probably in the detail

will find that link tomoz Rottylady- its a well researched article x

The bedroom tax is coming in aprill, wether we like it or not, so now famillys who are poor, and vulnerable people will have yet another thing to worry about.

Im in a 3 bedroom housing association house, i have a 3 year old girl and a 5 year old boy who have ther own room each, i also have a 20 year old at uni in london, who comes home at siummer holidays and xmas and easter. i have had a letter from my housing association saying in ther opinion i have a spare bedroom, as my 2 children are both under 10 and can share, and my son at uni, wont count for a room.

so i have the desiosn to downsize to a 2 bedroom house, for 6 years and then go back on the waiting list for a 3 bedroom when oliver is 10, because he wont be exspected to share with his sister then, or i can pay for this spare room that in reality is not spare.

This is so frustrating depressing and worrying, i dont know what to do for the best.

i understand the prinsiple of it, as ther are loads of people on the waiting list for homes, but surely building more homes would be a start.

ther is going to be so much instability coming, peoppe will get into rent arrears and become homeless, famillys will brake up, animals will be going to rescues, neighbourhoods disrupted, kids maybe going to social services.

peop-le who do deside to downsize, cant find the properties to downsize to, as ther is a national shortage of 1 bedroom properties. as a lot of people in 3 bedrooms who kids have left home, will be looking to downsize from a 3 bedroom to a 1 bedroom.

its not going to save the tax payer anything as housing costs for a 1 bedroom house usually exeed that of a 3 bedroom. people on benefits moving from a 3 bedroom social housing home to a 2 bedroom private home, will cost more to the tax payer in rent, as a 2 bedroom private home will cost more than a 3 bedroom social housing home.

the future is bleak

ive been on benefits and in the house im in for 16 months, and when i was given this place, i was given it, as it was deemed suitable for my needs, now im being told i have a spare room, its not fair to be moving the goal posts with people.

prior to this i was in private accomadation paying ridiculouse rents and struggling to make ends meet working.

i know some difficult desions have to be made, but surely, targetting peoples homes in such a way, is taking peoples rights away from them. i certainly feel like a second class citizen at the moment.

Sarah, there is already a BT thread here.

I will be looking to submit evidence at a 2nd council meeting, once the impact hits, of the effects on Wirrals people, animals (pets) and businesses. xx

* I merged them (posted that to save Rude from Scratching her head How?)

Lol Mark

well if i choose to stay in this 3 bedroom house that was deemed suitable for me, and now is deemed as me having a spare room, if i stay and pay, my animals, or at least some of them will have to go, ive rescued bunnies and had bunnies as pets for a few years now, they have been my hobby, but i will no longer be able to afford ther upkeep, and they will need rehoming.

i wouldnt mind but ive got a familly ive got kids living at home, and an older person at uni, its not like i dont need the room. my kids havent grown up and flown the nest, im not rattling around in a 3 bedroom by myself, with rooms to spare.

i dont think this has been thought threw.

many grandparents have ther grandchildren while ther parents go to work, beacause those working cant afford child care, so casualities ther, grandparents will no longer have the room to have ther grandkids over night, and the parents cant afford to work. 2 more social casualties.

i know that rspca,s and rehoming centres are fit to busting now, and cant take in any more pets, so were are all these pets going to go, it costs to have animals put to sleep, people may not be able to afford that, will animals start roaming the streets.

neighbourhoods of locals who have grown up around each other, and know the vulnerable and the elderly to call in on, and see if ther ok in the winter, this sort of social consciouseness will go, because places and people will become alien to each other

the list goes on, i dread to see how this will impact on people.

if people dont pay the by tax, they will get into arrears and get thrown out, and will be unlikely to be housed by another landlord because of ther arrears

Explosion waiting to happen.

Explosion waiting to happen indeed, Mark.
Also, so much stress and worry.It all seems like a long term recipe for ill health. If parents are stressed, kids are stressed. Which in turn results in multiple problems.
Just heard tonight that from October, housing benefit is to be paid directly to the householder rather than to the housing assoc. or landlords. More worry for many, having to do juggling acts with the money. Pay rent online, .....not everybody has a computer and they are talking about closing libraries which offer such facilities.
Complete mess of ideas so far. I understand the reasons but nobody is really seeing the true picture. Is there any MP out there shouting against, because so far, I have not heard anyone, from any party with any conviction, impact,or clout, just a little whimper and bleet by a few,to make us think they are concerned. No they are not.

I get my rent paid into the bank to pay my landlord but I take it thats private renting as my daughter does the same thing but I still have to find extra because the housing benefit doesn't cover the whole of the rent

Rents are scandlous anyway but it's best that I don't start on our blessed estate agents. If there's one profession which really grates, it's estate agents and their double dealing tactics. Private rents are just about out of reach for most now too, and increasing.
My generation were so very lucky but at the time, we didn't realise how lucky. I'm sorry for all who are struggling now, including my own.

www.facebook.com/groups/antibedroomtax

The Idea is ridiculous- it is not going to reduce the H.B bill, atall!!

If my dogs and cats suddenly die overnight and so we can now apply for a 1bed flat-of which there are 0.7%
available- the rent is on average (WPH) higher than my 3 bed. Our rent is £85 a week, 1 bed flats are £115 average. (Property Pool Plus), so that is dis regarding Private Landlords-who must be rubbing their hands in fooking glee!

The whole thing is laughable, almost

If the average low paid person (70% of H.B claiments are under-employed, or low paid workers-not doleys) has to pay on average £20 p.w rent- then that is £20 less that they can spend supporting their local shops

Bye bye independant Grocers, Butchers, Charity Shops etc etc
Bye bye Birkenhead Market Stalls.

Oh.....and of the tiny % of 1 beds available 99% are only available to over 55s, the other 1%-over 60s.

Me n thee are very early forties.

lodgers or kids moving back in with parents seems to be the only way forward if you can't move into smaller housing.

Not many people have been too bothered by these changes, they had been announced earlier last year..and people have left it to late to change this welfare reform bill IMO!

Time for beans on toast,flog the lappy, get rid of broadband and spend no more on fags and booze!!

Happy Days hey Taylor ?

How idealistic! Latest figures suggest that up to 90% of the U.K are unaware of Bedroom Tax.

As for the 'beer swilling, broadband using, flat screen tele watching' brigade that you portray- I assume you are a reader of The ... or the Daily Fail?

Lodgers? Ha! Who will fund CRB checks for said lodgers? Or are 'plebs' expected to take in any old person, regardless of their own/ their kids safety??

Smaller properties-that cost more than larger social housing properties?? Yup, that will solve the Housing Benefit bill.

As for kids 'moving back in with parents'- what about the kids who grew up 'in care' and were re-homed by the council upon reaching majority?

Those who were physically, mentally and sexually abused by their parents.

Sorry, you talk a lot of idealistic, generalising shit.

Remember, you are are only one step away from debilitating illness, redundancy etc.

Are you allowed an opinion on this thread? Can I post an opinion without being attacked or accused of being fake?
This bedroom tax will no doubt affect a lot of people and I'm sure that a lot of the people affected by it do smoke and drink excessively. How much is a packet of cigarettes these days, about £8 isn't it, so a 20 a day habit cost say about £56 per week, that's £224 per month and then you have got the cost of your booze and cat food and dog food to add to this.

Well that touched a sore spot!...Lets get this straight i didn't portay anyone..and if the cap fits wear it...benefits are not for the above.it is for food,heating clothes...not for luxury's.

Excuse me, idealistic?? realistic more like.

90% unaware of bedroom tax (where are you getting this info from?)obvs its not that important to the majority then???
From what i've read the feedback from housing associations say around 90% are willing to pay the shortfall to stay in there property.

And for your info i don't read newspapers...unlike you obvs read shyte to be quoting it all over wiki.
Everything you spout is the extreme case scenario...get real!!
You need to re read my post and stop labelling people plebs beer swilling ... etc...its not nice especially as you are going to be their rep at next council meeting..haha with that attitude goood luck.

As for the other kids moving back with parents ...this is part of welfare reforms...no more kids leaving school for a career in baby making...from now on they will have to stay in the family home..just like the good old days!!

My post was about my own experiences and the only solution i personally can see working for me, i too face cuts due to being long term sick at the moment.and thats another thing..most people on long term sick get more money than say jsa so can still pay the bedroom tax.

This is the attitude that this country needs to change....why should the tax payers of this country pay for everything..too many people just expect a free ride..well no more hopefully..and no i'm not a tory!!

i will also be affected by this and i DONT smoke and i also make my own wine that costs pennies for when i fancy a drink with friends, the laptop and internet i use was a present from my son (so i could make friends) i had to wait till i was in my 40s before i had the internet and its from having this that i now have met some wonderful friends and with their support and the kind words of some of the people on here life isnt as grim as it used to be, so while i agree some people could budget better the internet can be more of a lifeline than a luxury IMHO
as for people with pets maybe they got them when they were working and could afford them at the time and some pets are the only thing some people have to talk to

Agree internet is a lifeline especially for lonely people..but its no good to anyone if you've got no roof over your head.
so mine is being sacrificed.

Sorry haha, certainly is on here eh Granny?

Im not sacrificing my internet my daughter is autistic & she is happy doing stuff on it,my laptop was a present.I also have a dog that I rescued & she aint going anywhere.we will manage I will just live on coffee & cup a soup so long as my kids & dog have food in their bellies

Same here, food in mine and the dogs belly..is all i worry about!

well i dont smoke or drink or go out, i live a very modest existence on benefits, ive been ob benefits about 16 months, couldnt make ends meet when i was working either, and was still getting top ups as wage was low.

i was given this 3 bed house 16 months ago, i have 2 kids aged 3 and 5 and a 20 year old at uni in london, and im being told i have a spare room to pay for, so if they wont take my own son into account who comes homes at xmas and summer hols and easter. then ther not evan singing from the same hym sheet, with young adult kids needing to stay at home longer. or isnt that what ther saying.

"From what i've read the feedback from housing associations say around 90% are willing to pay the shortfall to stay in there property"


taylor4898, according to WPH
Nearly half of social tenants who will be affected by the government’s ‘bedroom tax’ are not prepared to move to smaller properties, research has found.
Ongoing work being carried out by Wirral Partnership Homes has found 45% of its tenants who will be affected by the penalty for under-occupation will accept the reduction to benefit payments rather than moving home

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...cept-bedroom-tax-penalty/6523345.article

you state "i too face cuts due to being long term sick at the moment.and thats another thing..most people on long term sick get more money than say jsa so can still pay the bedroom tax.

This is the attitude that this country needs to change....why should the tax payers of this country pay for everything..too many people just expect a free ride..well no more""

I gather that you are happy to lose your sickness benefit then?

maybe its more the case that they "arnt prepared to move" because they cant afford to move, its very expensive to replace carpets and curtains etc and then theres the added stress of taking yourself away from family/neighbours and as stated some people with this so called spare room actually use this room so its not spare

spot on,
last year i posted a comment on inside housing, stating that this government want's us all under=occupiers to live like battery reared hens squeezed into the smallest space as possible.
I recieved a great response.
""Never mind, you will also be forced to take revenge. You will not be buying furniture as it will not fit in your little room. You will not be buying DIY and decorating material - what's the point, you'll have to move on shortly. You will not be buying electrical goods as most will have nowhere to go, and those you can fit in, you will not be able to afford to run

If no change in direction occurs then before long you will not be able to travel due to affordability, so will not be able to get to work, at which point, why even bother buying food as you will have become one of the undeserving poor - only fit for a State slot at the crematorium.

Then, you will no longer be consuming, no longer producing, no longer paying taxes - perhaps only then you will be missed by the elite (but probably not as there are so many of us cattle for them to get through""

Government 'could change' bedroom tax
25 January 2013
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/legal/government-could-change-bedroom-tax/6525504.article


After reading the headline, I thought great news, alas after reading article it was not to be.
junior minister has said the controversial bedroom tax could change if there are impacts the government has ‘not thought of’.
Liberal Democrat Steve Webb, pensions minister, speaking in a debate in parliament on Wednesday, said: ‘I fully accept there will be disruption as a result of this measure, which is why we have a two-year programme looking at all this work, evaluating the impact and publishing the research.
‘If we need to make changes to the system as we go because there are perhaps groups or impacts that we have not thought of, we will be in a position to do that..


So basically what he is saying is that we under-occupiers can suffer the consequences of this bill, for 2 years we can starve to death freeze to death or become homeless because of the lack of smaller accommodation, before they will review the impact

I'm not a flag waverand i'm sure i will be shot down in flames, but i think WPH is taking a lot of stick for something not of there doing. It's the government who are bringing in the changes,WPH like other HA's just have to comply with them and are doing there best to see that every one of there tenants is aware of the changes coming in this year. They have been holding awaydays to inform people about the BT and universal tax credits, i know this because i'm a wph tenant and saw it on one of the leaflets and went along to both. They are trying to be responsible landlords and lessen the impact on tenants by making a fund where vunerable wph tenants can have there rent paid direct to the landlord, rather than the bank account, because they know that people will play "either or" and waste the rent on other neccessities which will impact later down the line with them having to evict. They suggest that in the 1st month of direct to tenant rent payment, over a third of their tenants will not pay the rent, this will have an disasterous affect on Wph as a social landlord trying to pay the loans they have taken out to comply with the refurbishments of houses/towerblocks/sheltered housing etc. With this in mind they are in talks to try to provide a buffer of 6 months for non rent payers before they have to consider evictions. I can't speak of other HA's, but i am of the opinion that WPH are trying to play fair with their tenants. They know it will be a total disaster , but like everyone else they have to go along with the changes.

Slightly off topic but would like to ask if people in social housing e.g. sheltered accomodation or tower blocks have to contribute to maintenance payments?

Pensioners in privately owned flats etc. although they have bought their flats, still have to pay approx. an additional £300 per month for maintenance etc. out of their state pension of less than possibly £470 per month (single). Plus bills.

That is how I understand it to be.

Just as a contrast.

I think the housing authority foots the bill. Just by the Holy Doughnut it looks like the houses are being refurbished outside and the blocks of flats near Duke Street and the other tower blocks have been done. I'll have to save some brass before I can do mine.

just been reported on itv news how controversial this is, lets hope the rest of the media wake up now

I was always taught to live within my means. If my wages did not cover a 3-bed house, then I'd rent a 2-bed one. The benefits system was there for people in hardship. As mentioned earlier, there should be something in place for people who need short-term help eg for disability, redundancy. The benefits are available for those who rent accommodation but they are not free handouts. People who buy houses can downsize if they think they are not managing nor can forsee a change detrimental to their lifestyle. I do hope the government reviews their rules and makes it clear about timescales expected of people who need to move as their wages would not cover their rent due to the withdrawls of the extra rooms not covered by benefits.

there are a lot of people who want to down size so they can live within their means but there isnt enough 1 bed properties available to meet demand

My 1st post in this thread I said it was an idea with good intentions but badly planned.

I do see all sides argument, it is not the fault of WPH also.

I want to make this point too, when people who are working and have a mortgage choose to downgrade they can plan it sensibly, decide what area and how many rooms they require etc which is correct as they pay their own way when doing so. When it comes to WPH and housing association tenants paying for a spare room I believe it is possibly breaching the tenancy which was signed.

No WPH or housing association home is let with spare rooms they become spare when children leave home, people die or families split up so people don't choose and can't decide at 1st point to have a home with spare rooms.

Private landlords will be milking it in April as they can let a 3 bed house to a couple claiming Housing Benefit and if they are not working the rent will be paid as this rule does not apply to private lettings.

The problem with moving people who choose to is not straight forward too, there is not enough 1 or 2 bedroom properties for the amount that would require these, also I believe that everyone has a right to stay in the area they are settled, I would say that if there is no property within half a mile from were you live now you should stay put.

I know a couple in Bromborough in the late 40's early 50's who will have 1 spare room. The female suffers with MS and is blind and they were offered a property just over 5 miles away in a 2 bed flat on the 3rd floor. A blind woman living on the 3rd floor please that cant be right in anyone's book.

This is a very short term plan for a long term problem seemingly no plan on building properties needed for the future. The GOVT spend on building 1 and 2 bed properties for councils to let thus creating jobs for local areas which is also planning ahead.

Dizdazdoz - That sounds unfair that private tennants can claim for a spare room but not those renting from a housing association.

It is the truth though, sure someone on here more clued up will explain it better :-)

Taken from here SOURCE

Find out more about the bedroom tax, the part of welfare reform that will cut the amount of benefit that people can get if they are considered to have a spare bedroom.

Welfare reforms will cut the amount of benefit that people can get if they are deemed to have a spare bedroom in their council or housing association home. This measure will apply from April 2013 to tenants of working age.

The power to do this is contained in the Welfare Reform Act 2012 and is commonly referred to as the bedroom tax, size criteria or under-occupation penalty.

What next - windows tax again,
Which ever party gets in their think tank looks for more ways of getting more money by stealth taxes.
"Let us help keep you healthy by adding more tax on things that are unhealthy because we know the majority are not going to give them up" eg cigs, beer and now soft drinks because of sugar content.
All we hear nowadays is this or that is bad for you - let's tax it more so the people will not use so much (they must trot out a pet scientist every now and again to tell us what's bad for us)
If they had left things alone just think how much they could save on pensions if we all died earlier before reaching pension age)

sorry off topic should have put this in "the need to rant topic"

I was told by the council if you go to private renting & on benefits you will only get housing benefit on the children you have living with you.I havn't got the letter with me but if you have three children the max is £550 it goes down for 2 or 1 child.I have to find the extra £25 plus I have to pay council tax.

Shouldn't worry too much Derek. It's all under control. They'll keep everyone working until they are fit to drop and then introduce euthanasia (which if there was a referendum, I beleive would get an overall 'yes' vote, they way things stand at the moment).Bingo, they won't have to pay out anymore pensions.
or
Everyone will be stroke vicitms, resulting from stress and all will be placed in care homes. One big bedroom, called a dormitary. In that instance, they will have more properties available for compulsory purchase and the government will become the biggest property owner in the land.

Could this be the next Speilberg movie ..or a sequel to 'One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest'?
Yes, I'm pratting on folks but, we'll all go batty anyway if we don't bail out.

Glad to see lots of wiki members have joined the facebook group-some of whom are also 'friends of my wiki friends'(that is how I recognised you all)

Could you all please join

www.facebook.com/groups/555921791103090

www.facebook.com/events/472210886178901

www.facebook.com/events/521008487921255

On our main 'Anti B.T' group www.facebook.com/groups/antibedroomtax

we have had nearly 3 000 new members in January alone!!
I truly believe that word is getting out,people are incensed by the im -practicality' he un-justiveness and the cruelty.

I think that the Borgoise are waking up and realising that the Proles will no longer be spending in their Small Businesses.

(In my deprived area,Seacombe- I give the likes of Elmees, Singsburbys, Teds Ten O clock, Dawn to Dusk shops etc to fold before September 2013)

Sorry Rude, could you please explain"I think that the Borgoise are waking up and realising that the Proles will no longer be spending in their Small Businesses."
Are you not confusing two opposed classes.
I thought the bourgeois were the more prosperous/middle classes and the proles are you and me (the lower working classes.)
Are you saying that Elmees, Singsburbys, Teds Ten O clock, Dawn to Dusk are bourgeois?

Ah! Thanks for pointing out my error

campaign group 38degrees are campaigning re BT,they are asking for people to sign their petition in a open letter to David Cameron

section of open letter
Stop the 'Bedroom Tax'. Don't make the poor pay with their homes to subsidise tax breaks for the rich. If the billions lost to corporate tax dodgers and very rich individuals were collected instead of cutting tax-collectors' jobs then we could take care of the sick and vulnerable, easily!

The housing crisis is not the fault of the poor. By encouraging more house-building the goverrnment could boost employment and ease the housing shortage.

Curb rich landlords' profits on poor housing and thereby reduce the welfare bill if need be but stop punishing powerlesss people with the cynical 'Bedroom Tax'.
http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-the-bedroom-tax-3

38 degs are some sort of general campaign group, once you intimate interest in them you are bombarded with all kinds of petitions and activist stuff, just be aware.

Hi am new here.just read through this thread,and everyone has different opinions.This is going to be a tough year for all cuts jobs,benefits etc.
The bedroom tax will resolve, 1 just gave up my 2 bedroom flat for a 1 bedroom flat.Also i own 2 pets.I work full time.Next month my hours will be cut and pay.


Good point also Bandycoot.

if you sign you can also opt out of any junk mail so they dont bother you again which i chose to do

spot on rocks, i also opt out of junk mail

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/pensioners-hit-by-75m-bedroom-tax-this-year/

quote from article
I always though pensioners were exempt from the bedroom tax but this is apparently NOT the case. Unless the information I read has been changed since June 2012 and I can find no evidence that it has pensioners will be hit with a £75m per year bedroom tax.
In April it only needs one member of a couple to be a pensioner (in receipt of Pension or Pension Credit) to exempt the household from the bedroom tax. However under Universal Credit it needs BOTH partners to be in receipt of Pension or Pension Credit to be exempt from the bedroom tax

I read free prescriptions, bus passes and warm weather payments are goners too from 2015?!

What a lovely bunch of people we have in power NOT!

Where have you read that please?

Two ticks. As Arnie says I'll be back

More than 30 tenant, trade union and campaign groups are linking up to build a national umbrella campaign to fight cuts to housing benefit.


Initial plans from The Campaign for Benefit Justice, which will also oppose ‘attacks’ on other benefits, include protests later this month aimed at Lord Freud, the welfare minister, and Iain Duncan Smith, secretary of state for work and pensions. Next month, the campaign will stage a protest on Budget day and a summit in London.

The action comes ahead of the introduction of the ‘bedroom tax’ in April. This will cut housing benefit payments for working age social tenants who are deemed to be under-occupying their home.

The 31 groups backing the campaign include Defend Council Housing and Disabled People Against Cuts campaigns and the trade unions Unite and the Public and Commercial Services Union.

Representatives from the groups, including a 7,500-strong Facebook group dedicated to fighting the bedroom tax, met for a launch meeting in London last month

A statement from the campaign said: ‘Cuts in benefits are an unjust attack on the poor. Cuts concentrated on housing benefit are already breaking up families, communities and support networks. They will mean poverty, debt and evictions.

‘We oppose all cuts in benefits and tax credits. We did not cause the banking and economic crisis and will not be scapegoated to pay for it.
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...ght-housing-benefit-cuts/6525584.article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...lowances-bus-passes-and-TV-licences.html

Winter fuel allowances, free bus passes and TV licences for the elderly could be cut after Downing Street warned the public to prepare for "difficult decisions”.

http://www.politicus.org.uk/news/pe...protect-them-only-applies-until-2015_644

GREAT I JUST QUALIFY AND THEY ARE TAKING AWAY!!

Typical eh, miss!

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/984

Time to get scribbling to M.Ps again to ask where there names are.

this is why its important to all stick together, just because it may not affect some people now doesnt mean it wont affect you in the future

That's a good point.

i have started writing to all labour mps who have not signed the early day motion 984
copy of standard letter that i am sending to them.
Anyone who wants to use any part of my letter as a template copy feel free to.

Dear
I am shocked & dismayed to see that your name has not been added to the early day motion 984 re under-occupancy penalty & the vulnerable.
I am under the assumption that the labour party totally opposes this draconian bedroom tax.
I am stunned that only 10 labour MPs have added their signature to this motion,
How do you expect the poorer of society to vote for you if you are not prepared to help us.
Do you think it is okay for Lord Freud & his wife to have 11 spare bedrooms, while social housing tenants in receipt of housing benefit are to be penalised for having a spare bedroom, and then have to make a choice do they feed & clothe their children, do they have their gas/ electric supply disconnected, or do they pay the bedroom tax or not.
We do not have much choice do we, no matter which option we choice, we will suffer the consequences.
Please do the right thing and add your name to this motion.
And once again show the labour voters, that the labour party are the party that supports the poor & vulnerable of society.
Regards

Don't worry; won't happen. There are too many pensioners and guess who's most likely to vote.

great letter rottylady, straight to the point

Do you think it is okay for Lord Freud & his wife to have 11 spare bedrooms, while social housing tenants in receipt of housing benefit are to be penalised for having a spare bedroom, and then have to make a choice do they feed & clothe their children, do they have their gas/ electric supply disconnected, or do they pay the bedroom tax or not.

Good point there,but in most cases is there still kids at home?what if the kids have flown the nest and its only a married couple in there middle ages or older. wouldn t it be better to do a swap.A young family can have bedrooms for there kids rather than 2 or more siblings in one room?

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/bedroom-tax-for-dummies/

From April 2013 all current and future working age tenants renting from a local authority, housing association or other registered social landlord will receive Housing Benefit based on the need of their household.
The size criteria allows one bedroom for each person or couple living as part of the household :
• Children under 16 of the same gender are expected to share
• Children under 10 are expected to share regardless of gender
• A disabled tenant or partner who needs a non-resident overnight carer will be allowed an extra room
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/size-criteria-social-rented/


I quote from you
“”A young family can have bedrooms for there kids rather than 2 or more siblings in one room””

It would depend on the ages & gender of the siblings
Bedroom tax affects families with children also
siblings will be forced to share rooms smaller than a politicians closet.

http://www.itv.com/news/2013-02-05/bedroom-tax-couple-thank-public-for-support/

Thanks for this information,thats all i wanted to know.
i think genuine cases eg pensioners,families with kids or the disabled or a terminal illness should be taken serious.but couples who there siblings have flown the nest and sitting in a 2 or 3 bedroom house maybe should think of a swap and give the ones who have kids a family home.I think this bedroom tax will catch a few that are ripping the system and don t need bigger houses just a waste of space.Not unless the cat or the dog has a room of there own haha.

Couldn't agree more Candyfloss

Squaring Up to The Bedroom Tax: Resistance Grows Around the UK

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/201...resistance-grows-around-the-uk/#comments

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...Order=dateadded&PageSize=10#comments

Did anyone see PM questions today? Our lovely PM did not answer one question directly about this.

Ed Milliband asked him to explain this.

In Middlesbrough a lady who has retired her kids have left home and she is in a 3 bed social housing costing £68.25 per week has been told she will have to pay £25 a week towards her rent, the council has no 1 bed properties available so she would have to go private and the rent for them is over £100 per week which would be paid in full by the tax payer.

This woman must still be of working age to qualify so surely this proves that the GOVT would be better investing in building more properties which would increase jobs and help the economy as well as the housing shortage.

Another example by Ed Milliband was a woman who had twin 18 year olds who are serving at the minute, as they are no longer at home as they are based in Afgahn she will be hit with the bedroom tax, basically the GOVT are saying thanks for letting us send your sons to war, can we have £25 a week for the pleasure.

Interesting reading Rotty.

Yer, I saw it DDD, PMQ where he never answers a question directley!!

Had to laugh at Michael McCann asking whether the PM could confirm that ATOS has found Richard the 3rd fit for work.
In fact, Im still laughing now!

Haha RUDE, missed that about Richard the 3rd, turned over after the Tax thing in anger.

Bedroom Tax story on ITV news at 6.30pm.

Aw no, it really was hysterical. Luckily, we taped it and have watched it over and over, focusing on the the expressions of differant m.p's each time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21350404

TY Bert very very funny

Rudebox have a read of this comment posted on

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/201...resistance-grows-around-the-uk/#comments

I would encourage every person affected by this vindictive tax to appeal to their Council’s decision to reduce their housing benefit. They will review it and uphold the reduction and then you are entitled to take the matter to a Tribunal which is presided over by a Judge.
The government has refused, despite being encouraged to do so by the House of Lords, to define what constitutes a spare bedroom. Lord Freud has said:
“We will not be defining what we mean by a bedroom in legislation and there is no definition of a minimum bedroom size set out in regulations. It will be up to the landlord to accurately describe the property in line with the actual rent charged.”
As far as I am aware, it is for Parliament to define the laws of this land, not Landlords.
Therefore an argument can be made to the Tribunal that if it is a room with a dining table and chairs, then most people would describe that as a dining room and not a bedroom. Because the law has been made deliberately vague and because Landlords do not make the law in this country, a reasonable Judge might be persuaded that a room that does not comply with the dictionary definition of a bedroom and looks more like a dining room or an office, is not, in fact, a bedroom at all and therefore the tenant cannot be penalised by paying bedroom tax.
You do have some chance of success. You might get a reasonable Judge who takes the view that the government have deliberately written a law so vague that it either cannot be enforced, or alternatively agree that if it looks like a dining room then it is a dining room, no matter what a tenancy agreement says.
It costs nothing to take the decision to Appeal. You can represent yourself. Even if Judges agree Lord Freud and decide that Landlords CAN define who pays this tax, imagine the publicity and mayhem that would ensue if half a million people clogged up the Appeal system

it just had a good airing on ch4 about how its going to cost the gov/tax payer more money when people are forced into private accommodation

Hmm Rotty. I see somebody has already c +p to the group, I shall let you know what peeps are saying.

The news, Rocks? Media attention has increased loads lately.

I know i.t.v are crying out for more stories, on the back of last week.

Just saw, spot on.

yes the poster of the comment (budgie) informed me,that they posted it on facebooks main page BT

I'd have thought you would have all been down to No.10 by now with your banners. No good going protesting after the event, if you want to stop it. Go on girls, were's the spirit. You aren't from the 60's/70's era (we were good)but you could give it a bash!

Granny, there is plenty going on, locally and nationally. The problem is lack of media coverage of Marches etc although it seems the media are starting to wake up now.

There is a London trip in the planning too, its a co-ordinated event with lots of charities/ groups involved. Pencilled in for May 4th

It will effect us for just 7 months then when son turns 10 in October, it will stop.

Considering bedroom tax comes into effect from April, I would have thought that May is a bit too late for a protest. Financial cost to reverse a system which has been put into place is extortionate. Why do you need media coverage before you go? It's guaranteed the media would turn up if you arrived. They didn't use the media in 60's and 70's.
It doesn't make sense, unless of course the organisers just want the attention after the event, pretending they've done great things for the nation. There are many out there who would have people believe they are fighting their corner but ultimately turn out to be 'big bags of wind'and are sitting around waiting for someone else to 'do it'! Organise your own. Many small groups can make a big sound.

we were protesting in Birkenhead last November and handing out flyers and getting people to sign the petition, rude herself has worked tirelessly with the facebook organising and we have thousands of members from all over the country doing their bit local to them, these are mainly unemployed/disable people so yes we would all love the chance to land outside No10 at the drop of a hat but illness and lack of money is a major factor

Probably haven't heard of Birkenhead in Westminster yet. Try 'Wirral' or 'Merseyside' and the carers for the disability sufferers can act for them.Link up with Manchester and Cumbria. Sit in the middle of Manchester somewhere... their very own media city!
No good making excuses when time is at a premium. Time to act!

there are no excuses being made the progress going on and the people we have on board is amazing, also if disabled peopled packed off their carers, if they are lucky enough to have one who the hell is going to care for them? i can only guess you have never organised a mass protest on this kind of scale before granny, its very easy for people to sit there telling others what they should be doing but not offering any help themselves

maybe we should all protest outside WPH main office Europa Boulevard, i'am up for it, i can round up some people from my area,

I agree with Granny, protesting should have been done last year as the reforms were being passed in parliment..bit late now.

I saw the last protest..not many turned out..hope more do next time!

the main problem was that people didnt know about it which is why i started this thread as soon as i heard and that was only in august last year!

surely it has nothing to do with the housing assocs...its MPs surgerys you need to protest outside!!

according to Lord Freud HA'S can re-define their properties,as most of the smallest bedrooms would measure less than 70sqft, which in the private sector is not classed as a bedroom but as a boxroom, so why should we have to pay tax on a bedroom that is not a bedroom
http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/is-the-bedroom-tax-unlawful-yes-it-must-and-has-to-be/
"""On Friday 7 December at Redhill Magistrates Court, Mr Mohammad Sarwar, Redhill, was convicted of breaching an overcrowding notice serviced on him under the Housing Act 2004.
Mr Sarwar is the landlord of 75 Knighton Road, Redhill, which is a house in multiple occupation (HMO) where rooms are individually let with access to a shared kitchen and bathroom. One room in the property, measuring 4.5 metres squared, was deemed too small for letting in 2007. However, on 28 March 2012, Environmental Health Officers found that the room was occupied.
I have emphasised the size above and of course the news release is wrong and must mean 4.5 square metres which is or could be 7 feet 5 inches by 6 feet 6 inches; whereas 4.5 metres squared is 14’9″ by 14’9″ which by any definition is a bedroom and quite a large one.
7 feet 5 by 6 feet 6 inches is in lay terms a boxroom and not a bedroom and as this news release says is ‘too small’ to be occupied.””

Not going to happen..its a load of tosh..HA's will not re-define.

radio merseyside from 12pm, some coverage of bedroom tax

did anyone listen to roger phillips show radio merseyside today?
A elderly woman phoned in and said that her 42 year old neighbour from Huyton would of been affected by the bedroom tax by one bedroom, she had lived in her home all her life and was very distressed over the BT, she had told her elderly neighbour the only way she was moving out of her home was in a box, and thats what exactly what happened, SHE COMMITED SUICIDE

how awful that it came to that but unfortunately we may be hearing more stories like that

The 1st of many probably, this GOVT would be happy if anyone with less than 100k in bank was erased.

2015 is a long to wait for the next election too . . .

Only trying to give a bit of moral support Rocks but as bedroom tax will not actually affect me, then it's 'over and out'.

very very sad

will pm you

http://libcom.org/blog/liverpool-housing-association-occupied-07022013

more new coverage on itv NOW!! about how it will affect foster carers

Aye! two of our members are in this weeks Sunday People too

yes great news

Oh and another has tickets for Question Time tonight, remains to be seen whether they pick her though....

yes i read that this morning, lots starting to happen now, when we meet up you'll have to keep me up to speed with all the work your doing behind the scenes too and how the meeting went in that ladies house who isnt affected by the tax but still willing to support the cause

The government’s arguments for the bedroom tax are continuing to unravel under intense media and political scrutiny. Will the pressure finally tell

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/home/blogs/under-pressure/6525668.blog

http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2013/02/finally-tory-smear-justification-for.html

both clickys are a good read!!!

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2013-02-08-The-bedroom-tax-wont-work-in-Liverpool-LMH

Homeless Families Living in £3000 Per Week Hotels Due to Housing Benefit Reforms
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/

IDS accuses Miliband of pathetic scaremongering over ‘bedroom tax’
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...athetic-scaremongering-over-bedroom-tax/

It doesn't look like the sick bartard's are gonna back down over this going by that letter!
Im afraid it is looking more like serious riots are gonna be needed to sort this shit out because peaceful protests don't bother them one little bit!!!

I can see this costing the government more as people will be forced into private rented accommodation which costs more in hb so where is the saving they just havn't thought it through can just see it all going tits up

People affected by the bedroom tax should work extra hours to pay for their spare room if they want to keep it, a Liberal Democrat minister has said.
Steve Webb, the pensions minister, told the BBC’s Radio 4 programme that more than 100,000 people affected by the policy are in work

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/people-should-work-more-to-pay-bedroom-tax/6525693.article

London borough declares bedroom tax "morally right
http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2013-02-08-London-borough-declares-bedroom-tax-morally-right

i came across this comment in the guardian.
It is so brilliant and accurate that I had to share it with you all
George's story:
“When young George was about six years old, he was made the wealthy master of a hatchet of which, like most little boys, he was extremely fond. He went about chopping everything that came his way.
One day, as he wandered about the garden amusing himself by hacking his mother’s pea sticks (and pulling the legs off insects), he found a beautiful, young English cherry tree, of which his father was most proud. He struck the edge of his hatchet on the trunk of the tree and cut the bark it so that it died.
Some time after this, his father discovered what had happened to his favorite tree.
Just then George, with his little hatchet, came into the room.
“George,” said his father, “do you know who has killed my beautiful little cherry tree yonder in the garden?
“Father, I cannot tell a lie, said the lying little shit as if butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. It was Gordon Brown…and the civil service bureaucrats…and the public sector…and the
and the banks…and the wrong kind of snow…and employment tribunals…and trade unions…and energy prices…and the royal wedding…and the extra bank holiday…and the Eurozone…but it definitely wasn’t me”
“Well George, you are a mendacious little t**t, aren’t you” said his father, relieving him of his hatchet. “I would ask you to grow me another tree but I don’t think you know the first thing about growth. In fact, I don’t think you could grow anything even if I gave you a fistful of seeds and a sack full of horseshit…now, fick off out of my sight””

Social Housing Bosses To Be Paid Thousands Per Meeting Whilst Tenants Face Homelessness

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/201...ilst-tenants-face-homelessness/#comments

Warning- contains foul language.

http://combatbedroomtax.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/daily-express-insults-millions-of.html

Liverpudlians and Wirral people on a demo, last Thursday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuQ14Se5cRo

Me and the patient went to Liverpool on Thursday shopping ,saw them two fellows 'singing' outside Primark!!! Did wonder what was going on .

Comrades. woman. Comrades!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...hames-david-1647647#.URbK7S7FTnA.twitter

^one of our members.

just read the letter, hope cameron listens to the people, doubt it though.
we should all write to him and explain the suffering we all face come April

Rudebox what do you think of this?

john Walker
Jan 19, 2013 @ 16:08:26
I am looking into the possibilty of mounting a legal challenge to them using human rights legislation as a possible weapon. But i need something to work with. If there were enough of us prepared to band together as a group collectively we would have a better chance than just one solitary person. I need someone who is clued up on the Human Rights Act to look at this piece of shitty law and see if there are any possible grounds upon which we can attack it Discrimination is one thing that come to mind. If there is any one interested please let me know my address is [email protected]
I realise that we may not get anywhere but this time i feel we have no choice but to fight and i would welcome any ideas as to how to go about this
http://keepourcouncilhomes.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/victims-of-the-bedroom-tax-sheilas-story/

We have a few people working with getting H.R lawyers on board, putting cases together. Thanks for link.

great news can you give me the link on the cases please ????or pm me or i will pm you

thats great,what would we all do without the hard work you and other group members are doing, thank you so much

Human rights lawyers??..are you lot for real?
Love to read some cases!

rudebox, have a read of this, very interesting article

key findings will interest all who are looking at the bedroom tax and other welfare reform policies of this coalition.

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/bedroom-tax-time-for-some-facts-about-housing/#comments

Very interesting. More evidence that the Coalition Government are liars, plain and simple.

The more we read about this "bedroom tax" the more iniquitous it seems to be.I made a comment early on in this thread that although it may seem right in principle and that each case must be judged on it's merits there are far too many cases coming to light which highlight future abject misery for many people.Of course some of the press will always promote anti government initiatives and we must be subjective about what we read but the plain facts do suggest that too many people will be adversely affected and this cannot be right.It appears that somebody in the government had an idea which sounded sensible on paper but have not thought though the real consequences and impact on society.There are simply not enough places for those who want to downsize to go to so it cannot be just or fair to penalise them for having "too many rooms".

The simple way round it is to change your bedroom into another room - maybe a sauna with a plunging pool? Hey presto! No bedroom tax.

yes some are going to be penalised...but when you read some of the excuses for needing an extra bedroom..especially on here

well some are laughable to say the least!

For those that cannot afford to pay the extra there will be discretionary payments available i believe....

Yes discretionary payments are available to the most vulnerable, for 13 wks maximum, after that your on your own, do we feed & clothe our children, do we stop paying utility bills, to pay the bedroom tax?
As Cameron would say
YES TO BEDROOM TAX
NO TO MANSION TAX
Camerons mantra
WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER
what a load of b***s**t

you won't get a reply or any evidence,from Rudebox and gang...because you dared to disagree lol

"Gang"? lol

Poods knows exactly where to go if she wanted to read up. As for "evidence" it consists of private emails sent to whoever decided to explore that avenue.

The pot is just way too small and when its gone, its gone. Even Cameron over estimated the coffers in the pot.

They will catch some liars out as well and who are cheating the system, Alot of disabled poeple need a spare room so they will look into each case.

I was curious to see what grounds there was for involving H.R lawyers??

So true.alot of cases will come to light.They are looking into each case now. i do think that foster carers shouldn t be taxed for an extra room, as they are providing a room for short term or long term care of kids who need that protection.Its the ones who are ripping the system that should be taxed or move to provide a family home that is most needed.whats the point of having a spare room when its not being used???? not unless the dog or cat sleep in it haha.

I admire foster parents...but must say they get paid a decent wage and allowances so should be able to easily afford the shortfall of the housing benefit.

off topic but interesting reading
Court of Appeal Rules that the Government’s “Back to Work” Regulations are Unlawful and Must Be Quashed


http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=298

Agency does pay well but council dont.so they shouldn t tax the spareroom for fostering.they will loose alot of carers if they do.

some people are completely missing the point here.....
A.SOME people DONT have a spare room but are being made to pay for a spare room because someone else decides it is, example a couple through illness sleep in separate beds in separate room because they have to.
B.they may not sleep in it but some disabled people also need room to store equipment to make life easier for them

Sorry I know this is off topic but 'pay well'??? My sister is a respite foster carer for the council and is out of pocket every time she does it. Fortunately her house is mortgaged, if it wasn't and she was affected by the bedroom tax she'd definitely have to stop fostering.

yes some are missing the point!! Lol

Disabled people get extra benefits...more wonga which should pay for the bedroom tax

iv just seen that on the news

IDS won't be happy. lOl

http://no2bedroomtax.co.uk/mep-supports-glasgow-anti-bedroom-tax-demo/

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Am...s_of_the_sick_disabled/?fSsgwdb&pv=5

This Bedroom Tax is really beginning to annoy now.

Why isn't it an option to increase rents, right across the board, irrespective of property size? Those who find it difficult can downsize, the same as happens in the private sector rentals. Of course private rentals are much more expensive, aren't they?
Then, at least some could have a cheaper option for larger families, instead of them having to pay the high price of private rentals. That would be a fair plan and should please all those who are fighting the cause of the families in this Bedroom Tax Campaign. Instead of the 'me me me' brigade.

In addition, the property rented in the private sector should be longer term contracts and if they don't like it, then don't rent it.
That might even help to reduce the property prices in the long term, if they can't rent as a quick fixing money spinner.

Yes council do pay less.so they should not be taxed for an extra bedroom.

According to the S326 housing Act 1985, if a bedroom is between 50-70sqft it should only house half a person, so why should I be charged full rate BT for my smallest room 68sqf

Table2
http://www3.westminster.gov.uk/docstores/publications_store/overcrowding%20excerpt.pdf

(4) The Secretary of State may by regulations prescribe the
manner in which the floor area of a room is to be ascertained
for the purposes of this section. In addition, the regulations
may provide for the exclusion from computation, or the
bringing into computation at a reduced figure, of floor space
in a part of the room that is of less than a specified height not
exceeding eight feet.
(5) Regulations under subsection (4) shall be made by statutory
instrument that shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of
a resolution of either House of Parliament.
(6) A certificate of the local housing authority stating the number
and floor areas of the rooms in a dwelling, and that the floor
areas have been ascertained in the prescribed manner, is
prima facie evidence for the purposes of legal proceedings of
the facts stated in it.

Clegg insists bedroom tax will cut under-occupation


http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...ill-cut-under-occupation/6525738.article

After the end of this year the country will be having over-occupation. Even this so called capital injection to build houses that Labour are on about will only house our new stable mates. They'll be living in all the new builds (and we'll still be in our terraces), all paid for by the generous govt.

'Social landlords don’t have to collect the bedroom tax'
Current claims that the bedroom tax will increase the housing benefit bill by forcing under occupiers into the private sector are one dimensional. Social landlords do have choices on whether to pass on under occupancy charges. It’s a question of whether they do the maths and calculate the impact on their business and customers says Peter Hall, Managing Director of PHHS.
Lord Freud, the welfare reform minster, suggested last year that reclassifying property sizes for those to be hit by the bedroom tax may be an option some social landlords could consider. It was widely panned, but as Albert Einstein said: “If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it”. The idea of reclassifying property sizes for those to be hit by the bedroom tax may seem absurd, but do the maths; think of the social and economic consequences for existing tenants and the areas they live in, and it becomes less absurd, and more of a rational response
continue rest of story at http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/...ds-don-t-have-to-collect-the-bedroom-tax

ps i have just emailed info to WPH

Bedroom Tax does affect pensioners from April 2013! Oh what a tangled WEBB we weave Minister


http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/...oh-what-a-tangled-webb-we-weave-minister

interesting read!!

Heard today at a Union meeting that WPH have no intention of building one beds. as it is not in their interest, because the chargeable rents would be so low.

Heard on the Radio that council tax benefits are also getting cut. Luckily these both don't affect me but I can see a lot of families struggling come April

I heard they were turning some 3 bed into 2 bed maybe that's what there doing in the one next to mine because they've been in there for about 2 weeks seems like putting new floors in & a lot of banging going on tho there seems to be a few empty properties on this estate that I applied for but I took this one on a private rental because its handy for were I need to be & couldn't wait for the council.

The Exchange groups on f.b are, in principle, a Good Idea.
However, nobody wants to exchange a 1bed to a 3!
It is all 2>3beds or 3 beds wanting twos!

Thus, it seems that to rehome/swap an under occupyed 3 bed. means a two way swop!

Who can afford that? Removals/carpets/curtains etc

and lets not forget our pets, not allowed in the imaginary boxes.

kevinx

Tenants avoid bedroom tax after Knowsley reclassifies homes
15/02/2013
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...sley-reclassifies-homes/6525752.article#

also covered on this link
http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2013/feb/15/live-discussion-managing-the-bedroom-tax

http://no2bedroomtax.co.uk/rates-of-under-occupancy/

Bedroom Tax – significant new developments and challenges emerge


http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/...-new-developments-and-challenges-emerge/

Somewhere, in some document, it will have been decided what was the optimum square footage for a bedroom per person. Saying that a cupboard is a bedroom because someone could sleep standing up in it is nuts. There will be court cases over this if they don't drop it and it will cost a lot more than they are hoping to save.

http://www.causes.com/actions/1712819-stop-the-vacant-bedroom-charges
109,725 have signed it already signed, please add your name also

IDS just lied his way through the Sunday politics show , he was asked if pensioners will be affected by the BT, the lying focker said NO, why would he not tell the truth and say YES, they will be if they have a working age partner

The rules are laid out in a document drawn up last year.
It was prepared by the Chartered Institute for Housing and called ‘Making It Fit’.
Under the Older Claimants section it says pensioners will be exempt.
The document confirms: “People who have already reached state pension credit age by April 2013 will not be subject to the size criteria.
“A couple are not subject to size criteria where the eldest member has attained state pension credit age, even if the younger member is still of working age.”
But it reveals things will change in October. And it says new claimants in a mixed-age household will be hit – bringing 67,000 households in range of the tax.
The document adds: “When Universal Credit is introduced in October 2013, it is likely, for new claimants, both will be treated as working age and subject to size criteria until they have both reached qualifying age for state pension.”
Research carried out by the Chartered Institute of Housing shows 67,000 mixed-age households on housing benefit in the UK
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioners-will-suffer-bedroom-tax-1713692

OOP'S not sunday politics it was the andrew marr show

It is a start!!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21541400

Hi Rudebox, you just beat me to it, lets hope gov has a change of heart for all affected by the BT,
ps i've got my 5ft banner ready.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...on-pensioner-bedroom-tax/6525843.article

The DWP last week stated that mixed-age couples, where one is under and one over pension credit age, will be hit by the bedroom tax when it is rolled into the new universal credit from October if they are currently claiming benefits.

However the department this week backtracked and said it will ensure existing mixed-age claimants, of which the Chartered Institute of Housing calculates there are 67,000, are fully protected from having to pay the tax. A DWP press officer said its previous statement had been inaccurate. He put this down to ‘crossed wires’ and apologised for being misleading

Thousands of new, older claimants - pensioners who are in ‘mixed-age’ couples claiming benefits for the first time under universal credit - will, however, still be hit by the penalty. They will have to wait until both reach pension age to be exempt from the bedroom tax.

DWP rules out changes to bedroom tax
my god i wish they would make their mind up

The Department for Work and Pensions has insisted there will be no change to the bedroom tax following reports that Iain Duncan Smith has asked officials to look at how the policy will affect disabled people.


The BBC reported last night that the work and pensions secretary has asked officials to look again at how the bedroom tax will affect disabled people. This followed concerns from several charities that disabled people who cannot share a bedroom and carers would be penalised.

However the DWP press office tweeted last night: ‘No change in spare bedroom policy, as with all reforms we will monitor closely as it comes in this April.’ A spokesperson for the department today insisted there is no plan to change the policy but its impacts will be monitored

Why don't they build modern day prefabs of 1 and 2 bedrooms for the time being as a temporary measure(there should be much better materials available nowadays).
They could build them on brown sites etc or provide some land for them.
The way we're going we'll end up like America with trailer parks

Derek because if they do that, then it wont cause as much carnage and the working class peasants, sewer rats, Plebs, ... and whatever else they call us when they have their little posh get-together's, will be more comfortable and that will be a disaster for them as they intend on each and every one of us suffering as much as it is legally possible to do so.

the HAs were told by the government to knock down the 1 bed flats and build more modern family homes to meet demand, which they have through regeneration and now they are being told they will have to build more 1 bed flats just like what they knock down

I heard that WPH have no intention of building one beds. as it is not 'financially viable'.

Now to remember my source

I don't see why everyone is getting up in arms about this; it's only bringing tenants of public housing into line with private tenants who are on housing benefit.

Spoken like people who have no empathy with people who are, through no fault of their own, going to lose the home they may have lived in with their families for years. Forced to move into none-existent 1 bedroom houses or flats or face eviction, said eviction forcing the council to re-house them in bed and breakfast accommodation at a greater cost than the original rent. The council can't afford the current outgoings so how is this going to save money?
Most private tenants are not in receipt of housing benefit, most housing association tenants are, so 'bringing tenants of public housing into line with private tenants' isn't really true is it?

If you're going to quote, don't truncate the quote so that it fits better with your position.

Don't believe this can be true and sure someone with better knowledge will confirm.

A story going round on facebook saying that Muslims will not pay for the 1st spare room as it will be used as a prayer room. I believe this to some racists trying to jump on the bandwagon and rubbish like this will only hinder those fighting the injustice this tax will bring.

I can't see anything official online so presume it is a crap stirrer somewhere.

nope. its not true.

Thanks for confirming

this won't affect anyone who isn't on benefits i believe so hopefully i'll be ok

But you might be one day.

Rambo quoted you verbatim at the very beginning of his reply so I don't think he can be accused of putting a slant on it to suit his own opinion.

I can only conclude from your post that the bedroom tax doesn't adversely affect you or anyone close to you.

There you go again questioning the party line!!!

Where Rambo specifically chose to quote me in order to claim that my statement wasn't true, he failed to quote me in full, therefore the mis-quote was significant.

As to whether the changes will affect me or anyone close to me, I choose not to disclose.

Human rights firm challenges ‘spare room’ tax on behalf of two disabled clients
http://keepourcouncilhomes.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/bedroom-tax-legal-challenge/

Ah, anotber law firm cashing in.

What did you make of Rottyladys' recent post Chriskay?

(other than the kerching for Human Rights Solicitors)

DWP: bedroom tax will not be changed

Last week the works and pensions secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, asked officials at the department to "look again" at the how the policy will affect disabled people IDS was prompted into the move after the chief executives of seven charities wrote an open letter to himself and Chancellor George Osborne outlining their concerns about the impact the bedroom tax would have on disabled people and family members who may be caring for them.
However, the DWP has now announced that there will be U-turns on the plan
http://www.24dash.com/news/central_government/2013-02-25-DWP-bedroom-tax-will-not-be-changed

Thanks for keeping us updated.
This now is beginning to make sense.thought it was a bit unfair if they hit pensioners and disabled tenants.
Adults who have kids do need bigger houses as there is a big shortage of them. Cant see the point why poeple need 2 or three bedrooms laying empty and not being used,not unless its for the cat or dog haha.

More odd information:


http://www.tameside.gov.uk/planning/dwellings/standards

See Part C, under "Housing Acts", although I believe this refers to houses of multiple occupancy, and not family homes...

Part D goes on to say that new builds have no such limits imposed relating to room size...

It does also say in section B just above that the Building Regs do not specify minimum room sizes. The sizes are for rental properties.

Candyfloss
there seems to be a discreptionary with part of the article I posted earlier, after I read your comment I went back to the link to re-read it
beginning of article states

There will be no changes made to the bedroom tax, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has said.

Then at end of article it states However,
* the DWP has now announced that there will be U-turns on the plan.*
A DWP spokesperson said: "**There is no change to our policy on under-occupancy. We will of course be monitoring this important reform closely as it is implemented in April and will ensure that the £155m in discretionary housing payments are being used appropriately**
I AM CONFUSED NOW

according to the housing act 1985 section 326
The 1985 Housing Act section 326 (see here) says: -

TABLE II

Floor area of room Number of persons

110 sq. ft. or more = 2 persons

90 sq. ft. or more but less than 110 sq. ft. = 1.5 persons

70 sq. ft. or more but less than 90 sq. ft. = 1 person

50 sq. ft. or more but less than 70 sq. ft. = 0.5 a person

Joe halewood states on his blog """One of the counter arguments to my view has been said there is no statutory notion of a percentage room and so this is all semantics. The above section 326 of the 1985 Housing Act disproves that as it says a room 50 – 69 square feet is for 0.5 of a person. 0.5 is a percentage not that there is half a person in any lay semblance of that term of course. So if the 2.9 bed house is in fact and can only be a 2.5 bed house as 0.5 is the ONLY percentage allowable in statute (which I don’t accept) then my point about the bedroom tax only being applicable where it is under occupied by one – that is 1.0 - bedroom, and not one ‘room’ - which is precisely what the A4/2012 says – means that the tenant is NOT subject to the bedroom tax"""

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/...isited-reclassifications-mutual-benefit/

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/...ons-more-than-it-saves-and-is-political/

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...nt-to-derail-bedroom-tax-91466-32885898/

I hope they put the kettle on, lol!!!
http://www.24dash.com/news/universa...tm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

http://www.leighday.co.uk/News/2013/February-2013/Bedroom-tax-in-legal-challenge

That'll do for today, me- thinks

Okay thanks for all the info you have shared with us.Maybe we got our wires crossed somehow.
Keep us updated if anything new.
This year will affect everyone with job losses etc.The council are already planning to pay staff off this year.More on the dole.

hi guys my daughter has just moved into her own place .its private will landlords be able to charge bedroom tax ?

the under occupancy rule is already in place for private housing so if she gets housing benefit they will only pay for the bedrooms she needs

no both her and partner are in full time work . it wont affect her then .thx rocks

There is no such thing as "Bedroom Tax"

It is a cut in housing benefit, if you are under occupying.

Thanks for the correction. I always thought the term "bedroom tax" to be emotive, like "poll tax". It's always good, if you want to have a go at government to work the word "tax" in.
As far as the current situation is concerned, I see no reason why anyone in public housing should be in a better position than someone with low income, so getting housing benefit, who happens to have a private landlord.

. clicky

This link might help...if it works!!

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2013-02-27-Housing-provider-organising-mass-bedroom-tax-protests
Housing provider organising mass bedroom tax protests
A social landlord is harnessing the voice and power of 100,000 tenants across the North East to launch a mass protest against the bedroom tax.
Coast & Country's tenant panel organised a welfare reform bedroom tax summit with tenants' representatives from 19 housing associations

clicky

""There is no such thing as "Bedroom Tax""

Taylor4898, your wrong.


A tax is a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government against a citizen’s person, property or activity, to support government policies. So the ‘state underoccupation subsidy’ – a phrase only coined within the last few months and a measure that will only come into force in April – is a tax, as it is levied against property occupied by citizens of the UK to support government policies.

Ah, just noticed; what a marvellous word. I can't find it in the dictionary; what does it mean?

Discrepancy

aw Chris- not like you to be so pedantric!

Just thought it was such a lovely word.

Splitting hairs comes to mind here but the "bedroom tax" is not a tax it is a reduction of a subsidy.People are not being made to pay extra for anything by way of this change so it is not a tax.

http://www.demotix.com/news/1834285/bedroom-tax-demonstration-bootle-merseyside#media-1834263

Brilliant pics.

great pics

great pics, how did the meeting go last night?

hi, yes it went well, about 200 turned up. Plans made.....

The atmosphere at Bootle today was brilliant.

list of mps who voted for & against the BT yesterday

http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2013/02/how-every-mp-voted-in-tonights.html

I did wonder which one you meant! the pictures are good.

Yet to Upload Plusones pics. He stepped out of the March and has some showing the magnitude of the crowds involved. HUGE- not bad for 3 weeks of planning. Well done Bootle.

A Communist Perspective of todays events in Liverpool.

http://infantile-disorder.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/explosion-of-class-anger-at-bootle.html

where can I get a t-shirt like this

I'm after a mask!!! £1.08 Amazon apparently xx

well done to all that attended

Hundreds join Liverpool bedroom tax protest

The protest is the biggest demonstration so far against the bedroom tax, under which social housing tenants of working age are deducted housing benefit if they have spare rooms. Left-wing thinktank Labour Left is organising a day of action on 16 March and is hoping to arrange demonstrations in 16 cities across Great Britain.
Something to check out next wk , read end of article
See next week’s Inside Housing for an analysis of the bedroom tax protests and what they could mean for social landlords.
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/hundreds-join-liverpool-bedroom-tax-protest/6525974.article

OFF TOPIC HOPE NO ONE MINDS
Mandating to Universal Jobmatch: Update
Announcement
The Secretary of State for DWP will make an announcement on 1st March 2013 that, with effect from 4th March 2013, Frontline advisors can mandate claimants to register for UJ. This will be done via a Jobseeker Direction. Importantly, however, management have acknowledged that mandatory sign up to UJ will not be a blanket approach; instead, FLAs should encourage claimants to use UJ. Mandatory sign up will be on an individual basis, if the FLA feels that UJ would be beneficial to the claimant, and they have ‘unreasonably refused’. Management will be issuing guidance around this shortly.
Access to UJ Account
If, and when, a claimant signs up to UJ, they will be encouraged to give DWP access to their account. HOWEVER IT IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE THAT THE CLAIMANT DOES NOT HAVE TO TICK THE BOX TO GIVE DWP ACCESS TO THEIR ACCOUNT
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department...m/id/7CB27121-96CB-4363-944EBA40616465A4

Pensioners- they're coming to get you!!!

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/03/...from-april-and-forgotten-dhp-applicants/

Spot the wiki members!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jf4iYn1At8

Another vid of the Bootle protest. Largest in the U.K to date.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHjXk3M-28

http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2013/03/tory-bedroomtax-is-today-challenged-in.html
Tory #BedroomTax is today challenged in a court of law as legal proceedings are launched.

I dont know if this has been mentioned before but I've just seen someones status on facebook saying that if a room is less than 70 square foot it is classed as a boxroom therefore cannot be taxed as a bedroom. I just measured my spare room and it is 8ft 5 by 7ft 11 making it 66.6 square ft. I just checked the housing act 1985 and in section 326 it states that a room larger than 50 square ft but smaller than 70 square foot is for occupation of 1/2 a person so it is not a bedroom. I have not received a letter telling me that I have to pay the bedroom tax yet so maybe this has been taken into account but if I do receive one I will be quoting the housing act 1985 at them and seeing if I get anywhere. Hopefully I will be going back to work before this once I can find a job and sorting out childcare for my young daughter.

Hi jen8505, it has been mentioned several times on this forum, some good advice from this link regarding 50sqft-70sqft bedroom/boxroom.
My smallest bedroom/boxroom measures 55sqft, we should all challenge our HA


http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/

Thanks, just read back a few pages. Really cant be bothered going through all 26 pages though! I only moved here at the beginning of august as I was desperate to get out of a 1 bed first floor flat with my 15 month old at the time. I have spent so much time and money (with a lot of help from family) doing the whole house up and carpeting it that I do not want to move out but I can see me having to if I cant find work and I have to pay the underoccupation rates plus the council tax. It woukd work out as £15 a week for me which might not sound a lot but to a single mother with a child under 2, I cant afford to be losing that much. Fingers crossed I find something soon!

Just out of curiosity has everyone received their letters telling them how much they will need to pay? Its due to come in next month and I eould've thought we'd all have heard by now!

Remember this is NOT A TAX!!! it is a reduction in subsidies so nobody pays anything extra.The people affected will get less benefits they will not pay more tax.

Nevertheless people will still need to pay so need to be told how much they will need to pay so will receive a letter. I have heard of a lot of people getting letters weeks and even months ago and I have not received anything yet.

Quite...

I'd have gone to the march myself, if it wasn't for my pesky job.

knowing how they operate a bill will probably land on your door step in 4wks time and you'll be given 7 days to pay so work out how much rent you will have to pay now and then add 22% council tax

jen8505, i find it strange that your landlord has not informed you of any charges yet,i recieved my letter last year. Are wirral partnership homes your landlord? or are you in the private rented sector, if privately renting
you will not be affected.
I have been told by WPH that i will have to pay at least £21.40 per week, that amount was based on last years rent,if WPH increase their rent again this coming April, then the amount of bedroom tax i have to pay will also increase,
sorry jen i did not give you the direct link yesterday, this will now take you to the relevant info
http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/...isited-reclassifications-mutual-benefit/

im with a HA and i havnt been given a breakdown of what i have to pay yet, they called out last week just to make sure i had a bank account and the internet? but they didnt ask me for any details they just asked if i was going to pay or move? i guess they mean to a private landlord as they didnt offer me anywhere to move to!!

I spoke to soon in my previous posting regarding WPH increasing the rent, got a letter this morning, my rent will increase by a extra £5 from 1st April so my bedroom tax will also increase from £21.40 to £22.50, my god the way WPH are going on it wont be long before all of their older properties will be classed as affordable rents, rather than just the new builds, don’t they realise that people who are in low paid work cannot afford to pay AFFORDABLE RENTS, ie 80% of the market value, they should hold their heads in shame

I haven't received any letter saying what I have to pay but I did get the rent increase letter this morning too! My rent is going up £5 a week too

just work out 14% of your rent with the increase included, and you will then know how much you will have to pay per wk

In Bootle, Merseyside this week, hundreds of people – many of them tenants and claimants who will be hit by the tax – held a furious demonstration.
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/dont-trust-labour-on-the-bedroom-tax/#comments

What is it going to take to make people realise that the state doesn't owe them a living? (And yes, I get a state handout myself). The point is, somebody's got to pay for it all and at present the country's tax income is low. When the economy improves, so will the tax income: until then, we have a problem. One of the reasons we need more one and two bedroom houses is the number of marriage/partnership breakdowns and for every one, where previously one large house was needed, now two small ones are. I don't know what the answer is but I don't believe demonstrations are.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/children-launch-legal-challenge-to-‘bedroom-tax’/6525992.article

http://wearespartacus.org.uk/disabled-mount-legal-challenge-bedroom-tax/

http://www.24dash.com/news/central_...o-save-bedroom-tax-from-judicial-reviewi


http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/home...Order=dateadded&PageSize=10#comments

Liverpool Bedroom Tax Protest
16 March at 13:00
Crown Court Liverpool in Liverpool

Wish people would stop calling it a tax; it's a benefit reduction.

I was invited to attend a meeting last night, Committee members of tenant community groups had Collectively called it and requested WPH to attend, there was also several other wph tenants there as well, other tenants myself included mentioned the 50-69sqft size bedroom challange to the manager from WPH.

He stated that WPH had taken legal advice and that the 50-6sqft only applies to overcrowding, we all mentioned the 1985 housing act, to no avail, he kept insisting it only applies for overcrowding, I asked him how can the 1985 housing act state it is to small a room and the law would would only apply if I was overcrowded , but the same room would be a suitable size, because I am classed as under-occupied, what a load of bollicks, WPH must think us tenants are stupid, anyway, I am going to request to see a copy of the legal advice they got.
I also asked if they were going to follow in knowsleys footsteps and reclassify, the answer was no, i did not expect any other response from them, but it was worth a try

for peeps who don't know their a**e from their elbow over subjects

Interesting debate on Radio 2 on this yesterday...

Would have had some of you seething.

THIS EVENING
Wallasey Combats the Bedroom Tax - 7.30pm

Serpentine Road Family Church
100 Liscard Rd
Wallasey
CH44 0AA

That was yesterday Rotty. Went well.

Next meeting is at Leasowe Community Centre.
14th March 7pm

As this 'benefit reduction' does not pertain to you why not give the people who are going to have to suffer the consequences of it a break and stop commenting on the thread if it bothers you so much what people are calling it?

oops i checked my emails today it did not state what date, i assumed it was today, lets just hope no one turns up

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/03/...hould-resign-after-todays-pmqs/#comments

Liverpool Anti- Cuts, Anti-Bedroom Tax protest today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufYPSV92H7Y

Warning- link contains an image of Ian Duncan Smith.

http://www.itv.com/news/2013-03-06/tenants-urge-minister-to-think-again-about-bedroom-tax/

Comrade John Ritchie

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=497090157024882&set=vb.100001717074084&type=2&theater

How much money is this "bedroom tax" supposed to save on the Welfare benefits bill.
Personally I think to overcome the shortage of council owned 1 and 2 bedroom dwellings for those that want to downsize there should be a nationalised company (maybe using ship and aircraft and caravan builders etc involved) who could fabricate the required dwellings to be put up on brown sites by locally employed labour. I'm sure with modern materials something nice could be built.
just after the war housing shortage

images of prefabs


Just a pipe dream though

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...r-changes-to-bedroom-tax/6526073.article
The boss of the think tank set up by work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith has called for changes to the government’s controversial ‘bedroom tax’.

* Take part in the liverpool echo Bedroom Tax survey below


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...droom-tax-100252-32929558/#ixzz2MwzWA9FX

Rock Ferry peeps.

5.30 - 7pm Monday 25th March Rock Ferry Against the Bedroom Tax/Cuts meeting @ Freddies Club, Stanley Road, Rock Ferry/New Ferry border (off Old Chester Road)
Organised by branch, please attend if you can.

and if anybody wants to help publicise the event

****Action****
10.30am Saturday 23rd March Crosville Bus Depot, Old Chester Road - Leafleting for Rock Ferry against bedroom tax/cuts meeting
We need as many as possible out for this - if we're only doing one day's leafleting we won't cover the area unless we have enough people out. Please come if you can - it's just pushing leaflets through doors.

[quote=derekdwc]How much money is this "bedroom tax" supposed to save on the Welfare benefits bill.


£16 MILLION, but it won't. It will actually cost the taxpayer more......

Done it,i think they are now looking into the urgent cases eg Fostering,pensioners and the disabled.The ones who are in bigger houses that DONT need them extra rooms will be taxed for sure.Mostly ones on benefits that there kids have left home and the spare rooms are laying EMPTY.

http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/03/...-it-in-haste-and-repent-at-your-leisure/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21725686

Satirical piece. Amusing.

http://newsthump.com/2013/03/07/tho...tax-unconcerned-about-definition-of-tax/

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/home/blogs/marching-on/6526093.blog#commentsubmitted

Can’t pay won’t pay!’ is the cry coming from many of the anti-bedroom tax protestors in Merseyside.

Summoning up the spirit of the mass non-payment of the poll tax in the late 1980s, campaign groups and tenants say they will refuse to pay. The similarities with the poll tax do not end there.

Riots stopped the poll tax and Riots are gonna stop the bedroom tax!!!

There may or may not be riots, but it's not a case of refusing to pay, since nobody will be asked to "pay" at all; they will simply get reduced benefit.

Couldn't see anything wrong with the poll tax, the widow next door living on her own was going to pay less council tax than me with a bigger family using more of the services. Then eventually you get older yourself and realise that you are paying the same council tax as the big family next door and there's only you on your own or just you and your missus. What goes round comes round was the way it was supposed to be in my opinion.

So are you saying that we will not have to "PAY" the Difference, out of our other income to "PAY" the bedroom tax.
Great news all chriskay say's we dont have to "PAY" our bedroom tax

Is it fair to say that if people put as much effort into earning an extra £x amount per month required as they are putting into rioting, groups, meetings etc etc then it really wouldn't be an issue?

I don't want to fall out with people on this issue but I do wonder why people feel they should have more than they need, especially when they are being provided with it.

I have never received anything from the government and fingers crossed I never will. If I choose to have a child, I need to be able to make sure I can afford it and make that decision, many people don't as they'll be given extra benefits to cover it.

If I move house and have 2 bedrooms and 1 child, I can't have another child unless they bunk in together or I move house...

Nobody is going to give me a bigger house and some extra money to cope.

Far too many people are happy to sit and take take take with zero attempt to get a job.

I wonder how many people moaning about the bedroom tax could easily cover, for example, £60 a month by cancelling their Sky TV or by smoking a couple less packets of cigarettes a week?

Putting the tunnel toll up by 10p is a tax on people who just want to get to work, I'm not planning a riot.

There's two sides to all this, there always is. There will be people who genuinely won't be able to cope with the drop in benefits each month - but of those people there will be people who could cope by getting a job...

I have in the past been accused of living life with rose tinted specs though.

Madonnafan,
people in work, will have to pay the bedroom tax, if they recieve housing benefit as well,
it is not just the DISABLED, the SICK,the PENSIONERS, the UNEMPLOYED who will have to pay the bedroom tax.
£60 a month is the average cost of 1 room spare, & £92month if 2 rooms, thats a lot of money if your living on the breadline.

I dont know were people get the idea from (O yes i do its from the mail & the sun) that everyone unemployed on benefits smoke,drink,have sky tv, the lastest iphones, big flash cars, and holidays all year round,
I have to laugh when i hear the govt & Ignorant people go on about the welfare benefit scroungers, Fact: according to the DWP's own figures, the majority of all welfare spending is on pensioners 53%
with out of work benefits accounting for less than a quarter of the welfare budget.

OK, but you are receiving housing benefit, it's a benefit. You have spare rooms.

Move to a smaller house.

I hear people saying that there are no smaller houses or 1 bed flats etc, this is where I can understand the issue that you are being forced to pay it as you physically can't downsize?

Anyone annoyed at having to move from a house they are receiving benefit on has no right to complain.

I've said before I've not got all the facts and figures but on the face of it the reforms are entirely fair, provided they can implement it and perhaps they haven't got the housing stock to do so.

Is there any alternative?

There are more and more people claiming and less money to give them.

It needs to come from somewhere.

Excellent article by Joe Halewood, everyone affected by the bedroom tax needs to read this,

If every tenant appeals the bedroom tax will go – Direct action is needed


http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/03/...oom-tax-will-go-direct-action-is-needed/

Interesting read, Rotty.

hi rudebox, i am going to appeal to WBC, on 2 points, the high rent, and the fact why should i be charged bedroom tax on a room that is not a bedroom but a 55sqft box room, my god i am going to try and persuade as many people as possible to appeal at the meeting on thursday night.

The Leasowe meeting or the Unite Community Meeting- or something else??

This policy is failing before it has even begun!!

leasowe

16th March at 1pm, Liverpool Courts- NOT A RIOT- however some Liverpudlian groups have took offense to this being arranged by a 'Labour Group' and aint happy about it.

I really hope that there is no trouble-will just give mass media an excuse to write biased pieces.....

The 1200 strong congregation in Bootle last week attracted no general media to write up reports. There is a media blackout.

Ah! see you there and will assist you.

Disgusting, narrow minded point of view.Do ya research, mrs.

yes Madonna fan, of course more and more people are claiming housing benefit and will do so while this unelected Government keeps persuading Councils to put people out of work, more claiming job seekers allowance, more unable to pay council tax, less money to spend in shops and pubs putting even more out of work, it's just a destructive cycle. Bennie.

Madfonnafan, I appreciate that the money has got to come from somewhere, but the massive cuts the governmrent are making is just resulting in job losses and therefore more people claiming benefits. How does that work?

If everybody who is required to downsize turned up at the housing office at the same time and said "Ok I'll move" but they couldn't find enough smaller places for them, what do you think should happen then?

Wirral has 0.7% of available 1 bed stock in the social housing sector.

(Source is WPH FOI request. December '12).

Its the effin bankers that have the money!!! They caused all this in the first place-them and the twotty Bullingdon Club!!!!

chriskay, you've mentioned what this is called by people on wikiwirral a few times. But does it really matter if it's called a 'bedroom tax' or a 'reduction in benefits'? The result is the same, if people cannot move they will be worse off financially.

I think 'Will this new law that dictates how many bedrooms you need if you're claiming benefits (and have more than we deem you need) affect you?' is more of a mouthful than 'bedroom tax'.

Well said, Zubee.

Who cares what it is called?

Bedroom tax
Underoccupancy penalty
Spare room subsidy

WHATEVER!!

Shills are alive and well.

Life is unfair, whether its the bedroom tax OR people who do work and are having their wages frozen. It costs money to go to work ie public transport costs going up, petrol going up, our company at some sites you have to pay to park the car at work and its taken out of your wages each month, so as well as paying tunnel fees, petrol and then payiny each month to park the car most of your FROZEN wages are gone.

I think it will encourage more people to think about buying a house if they are in work - even banks can be lenient on those who have unfortunately become redundant and negotiate lower payments - wonder what will happen to those who are on benefits at that time. House shares will be on the rise now - maybe it could be a good thing just getting benefit for your immediate needs. Solution - probably adopt some kids to keep the spare room.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/home/blogs/the-name-game/6526101.blog

http://wearespartacus.org.uk/wp-con...ishes-Discretionary-housing-payments.pdf

Official figures show that the current government has increased spending on benefits year on year so can somebody please tell me where "the massive cuts the government are making" are being made.
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6810/economics/the-growth-of-welfare-spending-in-the-uk/

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/care/bedroom-tax-pressure-leads-to-exemptions/6526115.article

Salmon, I never said the government are making massive cuts in benefits. That would be impossible with the amount of people they're putting out of work at the moment.

Pardon me ,if I'm wrong but don't people in private housing get 'housing benefit' too? Why is it not possible to find something in the private sector,for those who may have to downsize?
Rightmove have a lot of 1 bedroom properties listed at the moment.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property...;letFurnishType=unfurnished&index=10

http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/dwp-drops-supreme-court-appeal-over-disabled-children-‘bedroom-tax’

Alternative view, Rotty http://combatbedroomtax.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/dont-be-fooled-by-bedroom-tax.html

Majority are more expensive than a 3 bed Social Housing Home.

Deposit. Removal Costs.Fitting cooker/washing machine/shower costs. New Blinds/ curtains/ carpets.Mental stress. Isolation from social networks. Any adaptions? Lack of secure tenancy.Upper floors,perhaps? Pets allowed? DSS accepted?

http://combatbedroomtax.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/dont-be-fooled-by-bedroom-tax.html#comment-form

Rotty, I would like to know just who determines that people are 'severley disabled'?

Who distinguishes between 'disabled' and 'severley disabled'? Surely, disabled is disabled, end of!!!!

Can't see why the council could not come to an agreement to pay the 'Housing Benefit' for the deposit. That could be a sensible move. Many of the properties now have newly fitted kitchens and bathrooms with cookers and showers etc. Also, if not carpets, there is laminated flooring throughout.
I agree many probably wouldn't accept pets but not all have pets.Also, they are not all long lease but there are many which are. So two possible problems, although it's not any different for those who are already in a private rental and on loosing their job, have to move to somewhere smaller/cheaper.
DSS are accepted in many properties because the landlords know they will get their rent.

Changing schools. Re-decoration. Transport. Emotional attachment to homes (loved ones ashes scattered in garden, for instance). Bereavement (preserving loved ones bedroom). Absent parents (is a 13 year old girl sharing a couch with her 9 year old brother acceptable in order to stay with an abscent parent, for a weekend or a school holiday)? How about Grandparents who look after their Grandchildren overnight in order for the parent to work? (Nurses, Care assistants, security guards etc etc)

Hang on a minute Rude, all I am saying is that for those who are worried about there not being enough 1 (one)bedroom properties, the answer is, that there are plenty in the private sector, should they be interested, desperate or prepared to find one.
I understand your concerns for those who might have to move away from their memories, nearest and dearet etc. but you have put a slightly different slant on this than was intended.
Unfortunately, sometimes, some of those thing have to be left behind as they are and have been, for those who have had to travel from one end of the country to the other for job reasons.
That's life.

Granny, you're trying to defend the indefensible. Rude has pointed out the many obscene holes in this ridiculous proposal by I.D.S.
The Bedroom Tax is basically about going after the weakest members of society. Instead of kicking people out of their homes and support networks, why don't the Government take some proper measures to sort out this mess? Introduce rent controls, build more social and council housing, restrict buy to let and introduce a Living Wage. All of these things would help reduce the Housing Benefit bill. Of course the Tories won't do this (or Labour) as they don't give a toss about ordinary people. And also too many people on here acting as Tory quislings.

think its a right kick in the b******s that on the same day thier introducing "bedroom tax" they are also introducing tax cuts for the rich!!how can this be deffended?

No way the council will pay deposits or removal costs!!They choked enough as it is.

'Private Landlord speak' regarding fitted kitchens and that, this and the other'.

One advert made me laugh- described the flat as 'compact'- ie a fecking shoebox!!!

'Carpeted/laminated flooring/ blinds' blah blah- c'mon Granny you must be aware of Advertising Talk! Be the shittest material known to man.

We could talk about this til the cows come home- the entire thread i.m.o is going around in circles- waste of time.

Sure, there will be a deluge of 'But I live in private accamodation and I ....blah blah'and then theres the 'im ok Jacks' brigade

We have paid full rent, 'no rent' and partial rent- obvs. depending on circumstances in this house for 20 years, nearly. This house is my HOME.

Also, to the same boring tune- we have a member who appears to be an animal lover,and yet assumes that people give pets bedrooms(duh) implicitly implying that fellow pet lovers should 'abandon' their pets upon implication of the bedroom tax/ spare room subsidy/ underoccupancy penalty as 'plebs'-are not allowed pets anymore.

I got a practically blind and deaf 13 year old Lab /Dal cross here-also got a full yellow lab who 'likes' to piss in the kitchen- she is 12 years old- so apart from the fact that these animals are as loved as -almost, if not equally my kids then how dare some 'alright jack' suggest I 'get rid' in order to move into a box.

Touchstone, I am not trying to defend anything. So many people on here have raised the issue that there are not enough one bedromm properties for rent.They are obviously relating to the Social Housing but if they could get private rentals, why is that not possible if they wanted one? Yes, they do need to build more social housing, they do need to introduce some form of rent control in the private sector, yes, restrict buy to let and they do need to control the estate agents fees.Estate Agents are the root of a lot of problems re private rentals. Having agreed with all that, it just means that the state(government) controls even moore. Can that be a good thing?
These things are not going to happen in the next three weeks.
I fully understand where Rude and all others on this march are coming from and do empathise but there are also other communities out there which also have to be considered, and if a family of 4/5 need housing they can afford when bringing up 3 children(I believe they are in the weakest position in our society) then truly I can't understand why those who are in a position to move to one bedroom and also wish to, can't find one to fit.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it, Touchstone

Rude, why are you taking this so personally?
I know nothing about you, your lifestyle or your pets. It doesn't matter, as surely this whole bedroom tax affair/opposition is for the good of all those who may be affected.

Not taking it personally, Granny. Yes, I am angry, yes- I am passionate (maybe thats what you sense from my posts) but honestly You may note thaty I have never discussed or disclosed my personal/ financial circumstance.

Do any of you know for definite what my circumstances are? fooking no!

One thing that sticks in my head is that you have to be apart of a 'disadvantaged group' to give a shit.

Well, no- not in this house.No 'disadvanagd'needs here so does that mean that Ishould not give a shit about other groups.

"DSS are accepted in many properties because the landlords know they will get their rent"
Granny, More than half of private landlords are refusing to accept tenants on benefits with many claiming people not receiving welfare support were more reliable.
Flat and house share website SpareRoom.co.uk said that a survey of more than 1,000 UK landlords showed that 59 per cent were stating ‘no housing benefit tenants’ on their adverts.
this survey was done 16/01/12,Granny, dont forget the overall benefit caps starts in April, then Universal credit in October,

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tena...bing-tenants-on-benefits/6519958.article

Rude, ""Rotty, I would like to know just who determines that people are 'severley disabled""
rude it certainly is not ATOS, they cure the disabled within 10 mins off an assessment
combat the bedrrom tax made a good point on their blog """to weaken working class unity closer towards the tax’s inception. And then once the public outrage over vulnerable people is out the way, they can ramp up the scrounger rhetoric again to settle the public’s remaining concerns on the bedroom tax"""


,


























"" i did read the article last night re combat the bedroom


om tax

I can see this being like the poll tax as In no-one give a dam until it came in, wait till it comes into affect and people see it does affect them, we could see a return to the poll tax riots.

I seen on the news that arm forces won't have to pay bed room tax why not? so if I have to pay BRT and have a kid at the age he/she can go to war if I send him/her I now have a room free and don't have to pay for it

Rudebox, I think you will like this poem,
Don’t know about it describing life in the 18th century, my god it is happening now.

From the workhouse and the prison
Where pale as corpses newly risen,
Women, children, young and old
Groan for pain, and weep for cold -
From the haunts of daily life
Where is waged the daily strife
With common wants and common cares
Which sows the human heart with tares -
Lastly from the palaces
Where the murmur of distress
Echoes, like the distant sound
Of a wind alive around
Those prison halls of wealth and fashion
Where some few feel such compassion
For those who groan, and toil, and wail
As must make their brethren pale -
Ye who suffer woes untold,
Or to feel, or to be behold
Your lost country bought and sold
With a price of blood and gold -
Let a vast assembly be,
And with great solemnity
Declare with measured words that ye
Are, as God has made ye, free -
And these words shall then become
Like Oppression's thunder doom
Ringing through each heart and brain,
Heard again - again - again
Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number -
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many - they are few.

Percy Bysshe Shelley, The Call to Freedom (1819)

Thank God we live in a world so far removed from that which led to the Peterloo massacre which prompted Shelley to write this poem.Those days almost nobody was enfranchised, most poor people were starving and sentences for stealing a bit of bread was probably hanging.To draw a parallel between then and now is, to put it mildly, nonsensical.The early 20th century which saw the inevitable and very welcome but long overdue rise of the unions and the Labour Party has ensured such conditions will never be allowed or tolerated.

Had the local authority not put a ceiling on the amount of benefits people may claim for housing benefit a few years ago? They had a ceiling of nearly £100pw they gave benefits for if you were single, if you went and rented over this amount, you paid the difference out of your own money. Maybe this may be a fair way to give housing benefit. They also gave some incentives if you wanted to leave your accommodation and buy a house.

This latest attack will only be defeated if people band together like they did over the poll tax, it doesn't matter if you are individually affected by the bedroom tax, it's just plain wrong.

Bennie.

“”most poor people were starving””
Salmon, foodbanks are set up all over the place because everyone knows the reality is that soup kitchens and the like are going to be all that there is in the future.

""the unions and the Labour Party has ensured such conditions will never be allowed or tolerated""
Salmon, i just split my sides laughing, the labour party are rubbing their hands in glee that the coalition has done all the dirty work for them, reforming the welfare system, saves them having to do it, if they get in 2015

Thanks for the poem, Rotty.

Some will know that Saturday is a Day of Protest (our nearest is Crown Court, Liverpool at 1pm).

The Bootle Demo recieved no media-before or after- yet 1200 attended. (mainly through facebook) Saturdays' demo has been advertised in the Echo and the Daily Mirror....

This 'thing' is getting bigger and bigger and bigger

Meeting at Leasowe Community Centre 7pm tomorrow.

Freddies Club, Woodward Estate. Rock Ferry. 25 March at 5.30pm

Wallasey Peaceful Protest. 28th March at noon outside the Town Hall.

Woodchurch and Beechcroft meetings coming soon.

IDS has done nothing other than manipulate the DHP distribution. Thinks he is appeasing the masses.
Nah. Just another 'divide n conquer' tactic and peeps aint buying it (apart from ... and Mail sheeples).