Why was it actually abandoned?
The tunnel was designed for tram use
Birkenhead was against it because of the ferry but that doesn't make sense. Did Birkenhead control the ferry?
They controlled a lot of trams so would have benefited
I know Wallasey, Bootle and the trains were not happy but who actually put the spanner in the works?

"As you can see, the Tunnel is circular. The roadway occupies the top half. The bottom was intended to be for a train or electric tramway, but that never happened."

I've been in the bit under the roadway (the bottom half). It's full of pipes and wires but could be turned into a second deck or a railway line.

I don't know why the trams never ran: possibly Liverpool and Birkenhead couldn't reach agreement.
The ferry was always the Birkenhead ferry, from when the initial charter was granted to the priory by Edward 3rd. in 1330. The ferry was eventually taken over by Birkenhead Corporation in 1858.

I cannot seem to find a definitive answer
Maybe it wasn't worth it financially, I just don't know

There's no mention of tramcars running or intending to run through the Queensway tunnel in any of the papers I am able to search, however there's plenty on Motor Buses providing the service, of course with the usual objections,

Snippet from 1939,

Hmmm, Birkenhead were objecting to buses as well
Nice find Bert
From what I read they were still disputing the tram issue whilst it was getting built, but just continued building it that way because they had already started
You would think company's on both sides of the river would have been all over any new venture.
were they more tightly regulated back then?

Regardless of whatever the regulations were back then, any form of public transport travelling through the tunnel would have raised objections from the ferries and the railways.

The original plan was to have trams. Quote from "The Story of the Mersey Tunnel, officially named Queensway"

"In this, the original scheme, through tram services between Liverpool and Cheshire boroughs were a prominent feature. It was for that reason that the great diameter of 44 ft. was provided for throughout, except in the branches, a diameter sufficient for four lanes of traffic on the upper deck and two sets of tram rails on the lower".

The tram plan seems to have been abandoned at the same time as the Wallasey and Bootle tunnels were. there is a vague reference to "Birkenhead's opposition to trams" but I cant find any reason for that, although it could have been because of the effect on the Birkenhead owned ferry.

I suppose so, Wallasey and Bootle out of the running would just add more opposition

Here it is
I have read through the article again here

"One was opposition from Birkenhead who wanted to protect their Ferries, another was that the government had said that they would reduce their contribution if a tramway was laid. The Tunnel would however still be excavated and built for most of it's length with a massive space under the roadway designed for the Tramway."

So it was down to money. When isn't it?

Came across this 1933 report,

Did they cover the road surface with these tiles and how long was it before they recovered with an alternative surface?

Yes, the cast iron tiles were about a foot square with a studded surface and they were set in a bitumen compound. I don't know when they were tarmac'd over. There's a good picture of them being laid in the book "The Story of the Mersey Tunnel, officially named Queensway". You used to be able to buy this book for £5 at the tunnel HQ. It's a facsimile reprint of the original which was published for the opening in 1934. It's the most comprehensive book on the tunnel that I know.

It would seem that it was an experiment and only used in sections
1935 communication
" 25. Captain STRICKLAND
asked the Minister of Transport whether he has received any reports on the success or otherwise of the experimental iron roads, particularly with regard to the safe use of them by solo motor cyclists?


The MINISTER of TRANSPORT (Mr. Hore-Belisha)
The reports which I have received on the experimental lengths of iron paving laid in different localities indicate that the material is generally satisfactory, but I shall be very pleased to receive any reports from motor cyclists, who have not made any special representations to me, or, indeed, from any other road users.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1935/jul/03/experimental-iron-paving

I guess this space is now stuffed with pipes and cables and no longer usable for transport.

I always thought travellators would be a good way of putting it to use. Expensive perhaps, but think of the advertising space it would provide. I'm sure that would pull in a good income. They seem slow, but gain by the fact that you don't have to wait for the next tram/bus/ train so they end up being a surprisingly good way of moving large numbers of people quickly.

Thanks Chris.

Thanks Mike.

I'm inclined to disagree, for the following reasons:
1). I think that Hore-Belisha (Belisha crossings), when he says "in different localities" that he meant on different sites around the country; he wouldn't have used the word "localities" if he'd meant on the same site.

2). The book says "A contract was entered into between the principle contractors and the Stanton Iron Works Co. Ltd. whereby they undertook to supply nearly half a million square sections of cast iron...whilst over 25,000 plain half sections were also supplied for the channels. In addition to these, special size sections were manufactured to provide the roadway in the two junction chambers."
The roadway surface is 36 feet wide: if we agree that each tile is 1 foot square (see picture), then 450,000 would cover a length of about 12,500 feet, or over 2.3 miles.
As far as I can tell, only where the tunnel crossed the Mersey Railway tunnel were 2000 square yards of rubber paving blocks on a cast iron base laid to reduce vibration.

Well spotted Chris
Your mind is sharp

I wish my body were as sharp. I was educated when grammar was still important; linguistic subtleties too.
If you're interested in the tunnel, you should ring George's dock and see if the book is still available.

There are a few copies of the Mersey Tunnel book for sale on the abe books website, starting around £9 plus postage ...

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=The+Mersey+Tunnel%2C+story+of+an+undertaking

That's the problem with old age. My Grandad was the sharpest I knew and, ah well
Regarding your question. I am (or one is ) interested in the tunnel and would ask, is the book worth £15? if you say it is then that is a good buy.
You will not get it for £5 because it seems a bit rare now
I was looking on amazon and it averages between 10 and 15 pounds.
Georges dock building. Night, Day and Speed I want to know more of
That speed sculpture should be next to a Rodin

Incidentally, I lived about 100 yards from the Queensway Tunnel entrance when I was a child and it was an endlessly busy, fascinating place to young eyes. The traffic jams that built up on all the surrounding roads, especially of a Friday evening, were something to see.

The tunnel was also handy when the shilling ran out in the leccy or gas meter at home. If the shops were closed, we would dash across to the toll booths with a handful of change - nimbly weaving in and out of the cars - to ask the booth man for a 'silver shilling'.

On the subject of the road surface: My memory may be fooling me, but I seem to remember that the roadway at the entrance to the tunnel was made of large metal sheets covered in tarmac, not small tiles. In the summer heat, the tarmac boiled up into big bubbles, which we kids took delight in bursting - again risking being run over.

Thank God health and safety hadn't been invented then!

Hi yoller
That book seems to be called 'The Mersey Tunnels: The Story of an Undertaking'
The book Chris was referring to was 'The Story of The Mersey Tunnel Officially named Queensway'

These are 2 different books aren't there?

You're right - my mistake. Yes, they are two different books and the one recommended by Chris, 'The Story of The Mersey Tunnel Officially Named Queensway' is the better one. Sorry about that.

"The traffic jams that built up on all the surrounding roads, especially of a Friday evening, were something to see"
Thanks for sharing yoller, love it
I wish I was kid again

Do you have them both yoller?

Unfortunately, I haven't got either of the books. I did have 'the story of an undertaking' many years ago, but don't know what has happened to it. However, I have read both books and it was probably in Liverpool Central Library, where I did some research about the tunnel a while back. I think there may also be copies of the books in Birkenhead Reference Library and at Wirral Archives. It might be worth enquiring at these places.

Some years ago I was in Harrogate and asked for directions from a smart old gent wearing a blazer with a Royal Engineers badge.On hearing my accent he said he was on Merseyside during the war as a major running a bomb disposal unit and the first place he was directed to set up a workshop was in the bottom half of the Mersey tunnel.He said at the time it was a dangerous place to handle explosives but was ignored and told to carry on and did so until about a year later when he was moved to a better place. So we could have ended up with a disaster.

Some years ago I was in Harrogate and asked for directions from a smart old gent wearing a blazer with a Royal Engineers badge.On hearing my accent he said he was on Merseyside during the war as a major running a bomb disposal unit and the first place he was directed to set up a workshop was in the bottom half of the Mersey tunnel.He said at the time it was a dangerous place to handle explosives but was ignored and told to carry on and did so until about a year later when he was moved to a better place. So we could have ended up with a disaster.

Chris has pointed out a shop I can get to on foot
Going to check it out tomorrow

Thanks for sharing joney
I did not know there was a bomb disposal unit in the tunnel
Was the usual traffic still commuting through it?

This is interesting: a postcard showing the roadway paved with the cast iron setts, but not in the pattern shown in the earlier picture in this thread and the setts appear to be rectangular.
Is this really a photo, as indicated, or is it a drawing?
eBay item number:291640244654

Drawing me finks.

That's what I thought, Bert; just that the seller says "This is a photographic postcard".

The B.D.U was in the bottom half.

Sorry, what's B.D.U.?

Would that be 'Bomb Disposal Unit', given the reference to explosives?

Now, winding back a few days - a reference to the trams.
From 'A History of Crosville Motor Services' (R.C. Anderson, 1981)

"The Mersey Tunnel was constructed in tubular form with the roadway cutting through the centre axis of the tube making an upper and lower section, with the intention that trams should run through the lower section. It was largely due to the fact that Liverpool was still developing its tramway system in 1935 when the tunnel was completed, while Birkenhead was scrapping its trams, that this through operation never came to pass. Long arguments were going on right up to the outbreak of war in 1939 between the corporations of Liverpool, Birkenhead and Wallasey, with the Mersey Railway as a critically interested third party. It was because of these arguments that the opposition to the Crosville application was so strong, and that no bus service, even municipal, ran through the tunnel until the advent of the PTE, apart from an emergency service during World War II when the ferries were temporarily closed.
However, a bus service did connect Liverpool and Birkenhead as early as 20 September, 1909 when the Great Western Railway’s road motor department introduced a service between Liverpool and Birkenhead (Woodside) GWR railway stations. Three buses were used, and besides calling at various fixed points in Liverpool (as per printed timetable) arrangements could be made to pick-up groups at a pre-arranged originating points. Buses were conveyed across the River Mersey on the luggage ferry boat. The service was not considered successful and it was withdrawn in December 1909."

n.b. Crosville was an old established bus company based in Chester, providing services on Wirral, Liverpool, North and Mid-Wales, Runcorn and Warrington. It had been part of the Tilling group and therefore had integrated links with the likes of Ribble and other bus operating companies in other parts of the country, all of which became part of NBC (National Bus Company). The most visible aspect of this (in later years) was that their buses were either National Leaf Green or Poppy Red (with a white band), while the coaches were all white.
The Group was too large and successful for the Government of the 1980's and like many others, was split-up by Act of Parliament.
Through a series of changes, the former Crosville Rock Ferry Depot is now a Stagecoach one, but it was from here that the Liverpool to London X1 overnight express services coaches began their evening run.

Thanks, Norton; of course, now you mention it, Birkenhead's trams were finished altogether in 1937, although the process had started much earlier.
Oh, and thanks for the translation of B.D.U.

Fake, Photo or Creative artwork? (Answers on a postcard - a real photograph one, naturally.)

I refer of course, to the picture in a previous reply used to demonstrate the metal tiles of the roadway. I think it could have been derived from the one attached (below) which is obviously just before it opened to traffic.

I'm not sure if I remember them all the way through, but certainly at the mouth of the tunnel there is a drain channel running across. They are like a series of cast iron covers with little squares on the top, just like the tiles were, but with a drainage slot in the top. Usually there is a loose one or a sunken one to let you know the change of surface.

Naturally, it is quite possible that they were replaced during a resurfacing, but I seem to think that that was the boundary.
Also, I suspect that resurfacing has taken place about every 25 years. I've got mental pointers to these dates, but I'd say 1958, 1983 & 2008 - something like that. Note that the section from the toll booths to the tunnel mouth grating was not done until a couple of years after the last general resurfacing.

On each resurfacing, the double white line and rumble strip has been of a different design and spacing, so that might be a clue when looking at old photographs.

I'm sure that when I used to occasionally cycle through the tunnel in the early 50's that the surface was tarmac: those cast iron setts would have been lethal to a bike.

Purchased the book "The Story Of The Mersey Tunnel - Officially Named Queensway"
There was a sign in bookshop window saying "Back in 5 Minutes"
After waiting 10 minutes and still not returned I decided to get in my car and search for a phone number for the shop but could not find one.
Was looking on his amazon page and found this review on the book
I take it that was you Chris?
"The Bible" hahaha, I like it
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Story-Mersey-Tunnel-Officially-Queensway/dp/B005E9K73M#customerReviews
£11.95, a bargain and in excellent condition (like new)

Glad you got it: yes, that's my review.

An interesting 1937 article printed in "The Wonders of World Engineering" here:

Article

None of it answers any questions in this thread as far as I can see - but an interesting piece nonetheless.

Yes, thanks. I saw that; someone linked it, possibly on another thread. As you say, a good article, and many more on the site.

Yes, it is in the ventilation shaft thread