Forums
Posted By: Mark England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 10:49am
[Linked Image]

Liverpool Central for the final time in 1971 after most of the services had been diverted

Read more : Click me
Posted By: pacef8 Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 11:05am
http://www.forgottenrelics.co.uk/

Loads of good tunnel stuff.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 11:13am
Thanks Mark. Most interesting. Central and Exchange were both grimy and unloved in their final months. The picture shows the sole train to frequent the station at the time. The two-car Gateacre shuttle sevice. Once an hour I think ! Great (?)
Posted By: j_demo Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 11:33am
Central??????

Looks a LOT more like lime street to me.

i presumed the old central station was the building called "grand central" (some still call it quiggins)

haven't got time to read the article at the moment as i'm about to head off on out but it looks very interesting. as does pacef8's urbex link which hopefully will include a lot of pics of it.

will check both out later
Posted By: snowhite Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 12:12pm
Great stuff.Thanks for sharing x
Posted By: 8HBob Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 12:23pm
It's 100% Central. The stone structure in the background is the base for the water tank.
The trains from this station to Manchester Central were the fastest of the three routes between the cities. I think that the Liverpool Central to Harwich boat trains ran until 1965.

Bob.
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 2:04pm
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/

Anyone recognise this one?

Attached picture s.jpg
Posted By: 8HBob Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 5:09pm
Upton by Chester ?

Bob.
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 5:57pm
Yes, Bob.
Posted By: fish5133 Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 6:04pm
I see in the central station photo the scousers wasted no time--steel rails weighed in and the old platform turned into a £5 all day car park!
If you grab a meal at The Egg café you can look down over the old central station.
Posted By: pacef8 Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 11th Jan 2015 8:47pm
While we are on the subject of stations on the merseyrail network. Will a station ever be built for woodchurch at the bottom of swan hill? and the line electrified through to wrexham or at least Neston.

Come in n1094 ?
Posted By: Kev30x Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 2:21am
Originally Posted by pacef8
While we are on the subject of stations on the merseyrail network. Will a station ever be built for woodchurch at the bottom of swan hill? and the line electrified through to wrexham or at least Neston.

Come in n1094 ?


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseytravel-plan-open-reopen-host-7680862
Posted By: billy_anorak59 Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 7:43am
Never seemed to be much going on at Liverpool Central whenever I was there.

There were a couple of ways into the station - the main entrance with the curving steps down to the Low level station from the concourse, the side entrance off Bold Street by the Lyceum, and the 'link' passage through from Lewis's basement. A few pictures here which may be of interest...


Description: Steps to Low Level from Concourse
Attached picture CentralUnderEntrance2.jpg

Description: Bold Street Entrance
Attached picture CentralBoldEntrance.jpg

Description: Lewis's Link
Attached picture CentralLewissLink.jpg

Description: Low Level Platform Entrance
Attached picture CentralUnderEntrance.jpg
Posted By: fish5133 Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 7:54am
I moved up to Wirral in 1966 when just 7 and I think I can just about remember the John Summers steam trains (shotton to Bidston) or the last throws of steam at Liverpool Central underground. Not sure when the last ones ran through.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 10:14am
Thanks for great pics billy. The inclined subway down from the Lyceum was lined with old display cabinets from the various stores. Stoniers sticks in the mind. Wasn't there a doorway off the subway into Lyons Tea Rooms? The Booking Office is where the bloke is standing beyond the Mersey Bookstall.

I'd quite forgotten those handy colour light signals (visible below the clock). RF, NB and WK lines had their own coloured "Next Train" lamp showing. A great aid as to whether to leg it or not down the subway! The final set of stairs down to the platforms was on the left by aforementioned lights.

I often wonder how much of that lot remains bricked up for someone to discover in years to come!
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 12:35pm
Originally Posted by fish5133
I moved up to Wirral in 1966 when just 7 and I think I can just about remember the John Summers steam trains (shotton to Bidston) or the last throws of steam at Liverpool Central underground. Not sure when the last ones ran through.


I doubt you can remember the last throes of steam at Liverpool Central underground; the system was electrified in 1903. wink
Posted By: billy_anorak59 Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 1:31pm
Glad you liked the pics Pinz, no idea where I got them though. As far as I know, isn't the old 'Low Level' platform now part of the 'High Level' platform at Central? As you say, I would be interesting to know if that link passage from Lewis's is still there.

Here's a couple more:-





Description: Central Main Entrance 1969
Attached picture Central69.jpg

Description: Demolition 1973...
Attached picture CentralDemolition73-1.jpg

Description: Aerial View - demolition
Attached picture CentralDemolition73-2.jpg

Description: Central Low Level 1965
Attached picture CentrallowLevel180265.jpg

Description: Central High Level - tracks leading under Bold St
Attached picture CentralThroat.jpg
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 3:07pm
Originally Posted by billy_anorak59
Glad you liked the pics Pinz, no idea where I got them though. As far as I know, isn't the old 'Low Level' platform now part of the 'High Level' platform at Central? As you say, I would be interesting to know if that link passage from Lewis's is still there.



The link passage to Lewis's was still there until the shop closed. So not sure now as building work was due to start.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpools-lewiss-store-to-close-3431901

Still the main entrance and side entrance into Bold Street, although very much more up to date with shops like a little mini mall.
This leads to the Lyceum building with it's beautiful colonnade front and I think it was a Post Office building just a few years ago and maybe still is.

Exchange Station was the one I used until moving away from the area. Went to work every morning by rail into Exchange and it was so busy. Loads of carriages and mostly only standing room by the time we got on. The train had come through from Ormskirk., I vaguely remember the steam trains on the same line going up to Scotland. They would shoot past our station and toot, toot as they went. We would always give a wave when they passed. Not sure when that finished.

Exchange Station also had the Exchange Hotel which was above .Author and First World War poet Siegfried Sassoon frequently lodged in the hotel adjoining Exchange station. I imagine it was there for the travellers from Scotland.

Limestreet Station is where I remember travelling those wonderful journeys by steam trains. St. Georges Hall was as black as the ace of spades from the muck.
Fabulous distinctive smell, with the noise of the steam hissing from their engines whilst idle at the platforms. We took a couple of trips down to South Wales on those with individual carriages of 6 or 8 seats.A nice long journey when we would to chant 'bumbly bee', bumbly bee , bumbly bee as that went in time to the motion of the engine. Not long, before we were asleep. A little reminiscent of the train journey on TV series Box of Delights.

Where was Reeces Tea Rooms , was that part of the Central Station ? There was a café there but don't know which one.

They were lovely times in many ways and although dark buildings there was a feeling of belonging to it all.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 5:07pm
Great descriptions Granny. Most evocative indeed. You are right re: Reeces Cafe, not Lyons as I said. I always remember getting an Ice Cream Sundae thing in a scratched, dented, silver-type bowl, when taken in there with Mum & Dad on shopping trips. Big stuff !

Thanks Granny and thanks again to billy for the additional pics.
Posted By: 8HBob Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 8:00pm
The last steam hauled passenger train on this line was the 21.25 Preston - Liverpool Exchange on 3rd August 1968.
This train was also the very last timetabled steam train to run on British Railways. I was on it & it was absolutely packed with enthusiasts.

Bob.
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 10:03pm
What an exciting journey to have experienced Bob. Have you still got your ticket ?



Side tracked : As a follow up to Pinz about Reece's Tea Rooms, see the 'also at '



Attached picture Advert for Reece's Parker Street.jpg
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 10:06pm
There was also the Central Station Restaurant.



Attached picture Central Station Restaurant and the W H Smith Bookstall.jpg
Attached picture Central Station circa 1960's_.jpg
Posted By: 8HBob Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 12th Jan 2015 10:30pm
Ticket taken by ticket collector at end of platform - never thought of its significance at the time.

Bob.
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 13th Jan 2015 1:16pm
Here's a description taken from the "Disused Stations" site which describes pretty well the picture in Mark's first post.

"Following the diversion of services to Lime Street there was no need for six platforms, so platforms 1, 2, 5 and 6 were taken out of use. Platforms 1 and 2 became a car park; 3 and 4 were retained for the Gateacre service. By 1969 the lines at the decommissioned platforms had been lifted leaving only tracks adjacent to 3 and 4. In 1970 platform 3 also lost its track leaving only platform 4 for the Gateacre trains. The platform area under the trainshed took on a neglected air, but the concourse of the station remained heavily used as the low level platforms continued to be extremely busy."

Also, an O.S. map at 50"/mile of the area before the station existed. The map is probably 1864 and the station was opened in 1874.

Attached picture Liverpool Central.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 13th Jan 2015 3:20pm
The dark and atmospheric picture of Central Low Level platform dragged another memory up from the depths.... If you look at the platform, it's not a wandering weak bladdered dog that has been along. It was one of the station staff with armed with a BR issue galv. watering can. The nozzle was "adjusted" with a handy hammer to produce a mere dribble. Strong disinfectant was watered on the platform several times a day. It smelled of very strong phenols. Quite a pleasant smell, but no doubt lethal by today's standards and long since banned! Water Street subway always smelled of it too. Funny, the useless info. that surfaces.
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 13th Jan 2015 4:39pm
Chriskay, painting by W.G. Herdman (son of William Herdman)of the Waterloo Hotel ,Ranelagh Street, Liverpool 1867. Assuming the building to the right is frontage area to the station, they must have knocked that down too.


Ranelagh Street (s. side). Shows Lynn's Waterloo Hotel. 1867.

[Linked Image]

We have a great deal to thank Mr Herdman for, and his paintings are absolutely wonderful.

Maybe a good idea to start a new topic for anyone who wishes to view and discuss the content and history.

Posted By: yoller Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 13th Jan 2015 4:49pm
Originally Posted by granny
There was also the Central Station Restaurant.



Thanks for the picture of the Central Station restaurant, which brought back a long-forgotten, happy memory. In 1968, I had a Christmas holiday job in Lewis's (on the bacon counter, no less) and during the lunch break on December 28 - my 18th birthday - I went across to the bar of the station restaurant and treated myself to my first legal drink. Oh to be young again!
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 13th Jan 2015 5:30pm
Granny, the picture of the Waterloo Hotel is interesting. Unless the perspective is distorted (which I doubt), the building on the right doesn't exist on the map. The maps I have are supposedly 1847 & 1864, but the date on this sheet is given as 1848, so that building must have been built between then and 1867, the date of the painting, and subsequently knocked down to make room for the station. I guess that that hotel is where the Central Station Restaurant was later.
I'd be interested to see more of Herdman's paintings if you'd start a new topic.
Posted By: SUExx Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 13th Jan 2015 9:55pm
I find this thread so fascinating, well done to all for your info.
Posted By: billy_anorak59 Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 14th Jan 2015 8:00am
A few more good shots of Liverpool Central in its latter days here: Clicky

...and here: Clicky too...
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 14th Jan 2015 9:36am
Nice group of pics Billy : Second one along showing the frontage of Central Station with building to the right.

Chris, it's the same building as shown in Herdman's painting above, which turns out to be the Lyceum. No.I Bold Street,Liverpool 1. Looking on your map the façade can be seen facing Waterloo Place. so it must be the side view of the Lyceum.

[Linked Image]

http://liverpoolwalks.co.uk/003/lyceumv.htm










Posted By: Anonymous Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 14th Jan 2015 10:04am
Interesting to compare the above photo with one from billy's posts.

http://s153.photobucket.com/user/ol...stolivcntaluner.jpg.html?sort=4&o=45
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 14th Jan 2015 2:40pm
Ah, now I understand, Granny. Of course, that's the Lyceum in Herdman's painting (Greek, the grove where Aristotle taught; isn't a classical education wonderful? Also, the root of the French word for school: lycée). So, when the station was built, the Waterloo hotel and probably most of the buildings as far as Fairclough St. were demolished.
https://goo.gl/maps/BO1YB
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 14th Jan 2015 6:44pm
Originally Posted by j_demo
Central??????

Looks a LOT more like lime street to me.

i presumed the old central station was the building called "grand central" (some still call it quiggins)

haven't got time to read the article at the moment as i'm about to head off on out but it looks very interesting. as does pacef8's urbex link which hopefully will include a lot of pics of it.

will check both out later


Grand Central Hall was originally opened in 1905 as the Central Hall of the Liverpool Wesleyan Mission,former mission andWesleyan chapel dating from 1790.
Peter Quiggins. On the Quiggns team was Peter Quiggins a former BNP and National Front Member.
No connection to Central Station, J-Demmo.
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 14th Jan 2015 6:51pm
Originally Posted by chriskay
Ah, now I understand, Granny. Of course, that's the Lyceum in Herdman's painting (Greek, the grove where Aristotle taught; isn't a classical education wonderful? Also, the root of the French word for school: lycée). So, when the station was built, the Waterloo hotel and probably most of the buildings as far as Fairclough St. were demolished.
https://goo.gl/maps/BO1YB


That map has confused me. Can't imagine what is actually surrounding the entrance to the station. It looks somewhat bare at the front but in fact I can't remember it being that way. Even last year. Must study it more. Thanks Chris
Posted By: granny Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 15th Jan 2015 7:01pm
Must be going loopy. Yes, now understand it to be the shops etc. within and around the station entrance, including the 'walk through' areas. Sorry for being silly blush
Posted By: blackmetallic Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 15th Jan 2015 9:48pm
Originally Posted by Pinzgauer
Strong disinfectant was watered on the platform several times a day. It smelled of very strong phenols. Quite a pleasant smell, but no doubt lethal by today's standards and long since banned! Water Street subway always smelled of it too. Funny, the useless info. that surfaces.


the same ones used to clean hospitals? Before MRSA showed up
Posted By: Norton Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 16th Jan 2015 3:04pm
Re the disinfectant smell.

Up until a few years ago, if you stood looking into the window of a particular jewlers shop on the north side of Lord Street, you would get a 'whif' of that smell every so often, just like at a railway station.

I used to think that they used the same stuff to clean their frontage, being right by a food shop (Sayers?), just incase it had been used as a convinience during the night.

However, I noticed an unusual cast iron grating in the pavement between the flags and the front wall of the shop. It had to be over a shaft of some description, going down to the railway tunnel beneath Lord St. Every couple of minutes, a train would go throught and push some of the air out from beneath - smell and all.

I suppose if it was raining, then there would have been some extra drips in the tunnel.

By the way, it's not visable anymore and that branch of Sayers has moved. The grid dissapeared when the pavement was relaid to match the others in the area after Liverpool One opened.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 16th Jan 2015 3:29pm
Interesting info Norton - Thanks. If it was a shaft down to the tunnel directly below, I wonder if it was a vent shaft for the steam and smoke (pre-1903 electrification of the MR). I would guess it's roughly equidistant twixt Central and James Street. I further wonder if there originally was a fan house there, like the one in Hamilton Street (midway point between HS & BC) until the 1970's ? I've not seen any mention of one at that location but........

The pong of phenols put down at JS and LC platforms and passageways could certainly of been pushed along by the trains to where you describe. The plot thickens.

A pre-1903 large scale map of Lord Street may be the answer ?
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 16th Jan 2015 4:32pm
Unfortunately my maps of Liverpool pre-date the MR.
Was the jewellers Boodle & Dunthorne?
Posted By: Norton Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 16th Jan 2015 5:47pm
The vent I remember was far too small to have been of use to ventilate the steam trains in the tunnel. It was only about 4 to 6 feet long and no more than about 8 inches wide - a bit like those with glass in for basement lights or the ones that take rainwater to the gutter. I think there were four slots in it, each about 1.5 inches wide, and each one just under half the width and half the length of the frame each, as the frame was also about 1.5 inches with a central and a longditudinal rib. (A squashed cross in a rectangle shape.)

As this was at the 'top end' of Lord St, then it was only about a quarter of the way to Central, so there may have been more of different size and shapes near to Whitechapel and M&S.

We can guage the size and frequency of the smoke vents used at the time by looking at the Northern Line from above. This uses the tunnel created to extend the line from Brunswick dock to Central Station (surface level). As a rough guide, the shafts are about the size of a small house or shop, and are less than 200 yards apart.

Part of the deal for this extension to terminate at Central Station was to allow the tracks of the new line from Brunswick Dock (and Hunts Cross etc.) to be aligned directly above the end of the exsisting Mersey Railway line. The idea was that at some future date, a cutting could be created to connect the two lines at the same level, giving a direct line from the Mersey Railway out to Manchester, eventually.

The tracks were eventually aligned, not in the 1880's, but in the 1970's, to produce the Northern Line. The origial Mersey Railway platform at Central Low Level, built as a terminus for the cross-river trains, is now the platform for the Northern Line trains, while the Wirral Line platforms are beneath them at deep level. The official openning of the Merseyrail Loop and Link lines was on 28th October 1978, and was performed by HM The Queen.

Now, back to venting the tunnel between Central and Brunswick stations. If you look on Google towards the top of Bold St you will find Back Berry St (parallel with Berry St) and on it, between Wood St and Seel St, is a strang rectangular shape, almost the size of a house and surrounded by some old stables. This is the first vent, a mere 115 yards up from the openning at the back of Central.

The tunnel continues under Berry St and Great George St without any obvious vents until it reaches Parliment St and St James Place, where it emerges in a cutting on the south side of the junction before dissapearing underground again, on its way to Grafton St. In between, there are three other vents of different sizes.

Given the eratic spacings of the vents we can still see, and the fact that none have really been needed since 1903, then it's my guess that quite a few have been covered over. Lord St and Church St have changed enourmously in that time, and Great George St has been redeveloped as well, since ths last steam trains ran along that tunnel, so anything could have happened.

So now, all we need is just a bit of ventilation for when the diesel maintenance trains go underground.
Posted By: 8HBob Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 16th Jan 2015 7:22pm
The section of tunnel between Central High level & St James & onward was used by regular steam trains until 1966

Bob.
Posted By: Norton Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 29th Jan 2015 6:06pm
I think the jewelers I was thinking of was the 'Half Price Jewelers' next to Sayers. Both shops have now gone to new owners. I look but can't afford to shop at Boodles as it has too many £000's.! Thanks for giving the last year of steam along that tunnel, Bob. It all helps.

As the topic is about lost railway stations, then I should have mentioned that the vent or opening at Parliament Street and St. James Street was actually built for St. James station, but it closed a long time ago. Some consideration has been given to opening it up to serve the Baltic Triangle, but it entails a lot of work.

So, what did Bradshaw say about the line from Chester to Birkenhead when he wrote his guide in 1863? The text is attached below. Some have long gone and some have been renamed.

Attached picture Bradshaws Bhead 1863.png
Posted By: chriskay Re: England's forgotten railway stations - 29th Jan 2015 11:13pm
Originally Posted by Norton
I think the jewelers I was thinking of was the 'Half Price Jewelers' next to Sayers. Both shops have now gone to new owners. I look but can't afford to shop at Boodles as it has too many £000's.! Thanks for giving the last year of steam along that tunnel, Bob. It all helps.

As the topic is about lost railway stations, then I should have mentioned that the vent or opening at Parliament Street and St. James Street was actually built for St. James station, but it closed a long time ago. Some consideration has been given to opening it up to serve the Baltic Triangle, but it entails a lot of work.

So, what did Bradshaw say about the line from Chester to Birkenhead when he wrote his guide in 1863? The text is attached below. Some have long gone and some have been renamed.



Boodles still have a shop in Chester, which I view sometimes; I agree about the 000's
I see that Bradshaw mis-named Storeton as Stamton.
I also note that when he wrote, there was a station at Rock Lane (1846-1862) before Rock Ferry opened in 1891.

p.s. I see that anyone relying on Bradshaw's 1863 guide to use Rock Lane station would have been disappointed, since it closed in 1862.
© Wirral-Wikiwirral