Does anyone remember the cellars of Birkenhead Market being filled in?

Whilst I remember about a third of it being dug up for new foundations, I do not recall the majority of that area being exposed.

I'm too young to remember that, was the old market in market street situated roughly where the car park is now? I've seen photographs but never knew exactly where the market building was located.

I remember the old market but I was not aware of it having any cellars. The indoor bit was on cobbles if I remember rightly.

Here's a map showing the old market, about 1955. Don't know about the cellars though.

The market had cellars, but they weren't below ground level. The market building itself was raised and reached by a big flight of steps at its southern end. The cellars were below the main hall at ground level. During the Second World War they were used as air raid shelters.

Am I right in believing my second-hand memory that this market burnt down in the 70s or 80s and a tempory shed was put up for a couple years until the current building was built.

This tempory shed then saw several years service as the sportsbarn at Woodchurch Leisure centre.

Or was my Dad talking nonsense?

The cellars had businesses in them, the 2 i can remember for sure were Bernard's and the Hamilton club, They obviously had to move when the market burnt down.

The fire in the old Birkenhead Market Hall was on Saturday, 9th November 1974, following the fire the empty Asda building was used as a temporary market until a new pre-fabricated building was put up within the walls of the old market hall.

From the Liverpool Daily Post, Monday 11th November 1974:

£2m blaze destroys Birkenhead market

SHOCKED TRADERS IN CRISIS MEETING

Wirral councillors and officials met more than 100 shocked stallholders at a hurriedly called meeting at Birkenhead fire station last night following one of Merseyside's biggest ever blazes which totally destroyed the town's 129-year-old market hall on Saturday night.

No one was injured in the blaze which caused damage estimated at £2 million, but some of the traders - originally due to have been rehoused three years ago in the still uncompleted Grange Shopping Precinct - have lost stock worth thousands of pounds. It was in an attempt to keep in business that they met with council chief executive Mr Ian Holt and other representatives last night.

Alternative sites from which they could operate - including Woodside Lairage, Grange Road Sports Centre and the bus depot at New Ferry - were offered to the traders but they refused to make any decision and will meet again an Wednesday.

An inquiry is to be held into the cause of the fire which swept through the building on Saturday night. Arson has been ruled out but investigations are continuing.

The alarm was raised shortly before 10 p.m. by two girls who dashed into the Hamilton Club below the market. More than 100 people were evacuated from the club while 14 fire-fighting appliances from all over Merseyside raced to the scene. But by the time the blaze was brought under control, only the shell of the building remained.

Hundreds of spectators turned up to watch the fire fighting and damping down which went on until mid-day yesterday.

At the height of the blaze masonary and glass showered into the streets nearby. According to a fire brigade spokesman there was never any hope of saving the building which was also damaged by fire in 1969.

"The fire had got a good hold when arrived." he said "It obviously spread rapidly before penetrating the outer walls and being spotted."

Last night all entrances to the market were sealed off by the police because of a danger of the outer walls of the building collapsing. The Hamilton club was flooded with six inches of water and the owners said it was unlikely they would be reopening there.

The market hall was equipped with fire alarms but these were not of the automatic type and would have to have been set of manually and there was no automatic link between the building and Birkenhead fire station.

Provision is to be made for such a link in the multimillion pound Grange centre which is due to open in 1976.

A catastrophe, say the stallholders

As stall-holders begin to count the cost of the fire which destroyed Birkenhead's historic market hall, investigations will continue today into the cause of the blaze.

Scores of stalls and tons of produce were destroyed at a time when the traders would be hoping to take advantage of increasing business during the Christmas build-up.

Traders at the market last night described the fire as 'catastrophic' and many were too shocked to discuss their future.

One, Mr Charles Russell, of Upton, who ran a cooked meat stall, said: "I feel as though I were in the middle of a nightmare. I have lost in the region of £6,000 in stock and equipment, but the fire brigade managed to save £200 in cash fram a safe at my stall."

Butcher, Mr Bill Baker, of District Butchers who operate several stores on the market, was last night desperately trying to get in touch with his company director who is abroad at a business conference.

"I don't know how much we have lost as yet" he said.

Another butcher only last week stocked his stall with extra meat for the Christmas period. "I have now lost it all and it has cost me about £5,000" he said.

Urgent efforts are being made to find alternative accommodation for the traders.

But after the meeting last night between the traders and Wirral council representatives at which no agreement was reached, the stallholders will discuss the situation again on Wednesday and will have another meeting with the council at the end of the week.

Memories of blitz as wind fanned the flames

A DAILY POST reporter watching from the roof of a building only ten yards from the blaze as firemen fought it said "This was the biggest fire I have reported in more than 40 years experience. It reminded one of the wartime blitz fires and, in particular, the one which engulfed the old Custom house in Liverpool which could be seen for miles.

"The glow from the blazing market could be seen from all the high points in Wirral and the bird's-eye view from short range was astonishing.

"The one-acre area of the market hall was literally a sea of flame and at times the water sprayed down by firemen gave the effect of geysers in action with steam and smoke rising more than 50 feet into the air.

"While firemen battled to control the blaze from all vantage points, some of them perched on turntable ladders within a very short distance of the doomed building, were eerily lit against the orange background.

"A near-gale wind carried the flames from the old Haymarket area of the town diagonally across the market hall, one of the town's prized Victorian buildings and an outstanding example of the brick architecture and design of that period."

A PLACE TO START

Fortunes have been made and found on market stalls, but one of the most famous success stories must be that of Marks and Spencer, who were tenants in the market hall at Birkenhead for years.

Michael Marks first set up a market stall at Leeds in the 1890's and moved to Birkenhead open market in 1901. He amalgamated with Spencer and they were allocated stall numbers 11 and 12 in the centre aisle in 1903. There they opened the famous Penny Bazaar which eventually led to Marks and Spencer. The company left the Birkenhead stalls on February 24, 1923.

Anyone got any old photos ? Iv been after some for a while for my website

Cheers
Doc

The storage rooms under the market weren't called cellars, they were known as vaults.

Piccies

pics

some pics
anyone remember the toilets that went underground

Remember the under ground toilets on the roundabout at central station. were where they at the market.

2nd pic just in front of white car on the left

Those yes, i was trying to think of some inside the market, silly me.

Birkenhead Market was opened in July 1845, and is very centrally situated; its general form is somewhat similar to that of St. John's market at Liverpool, being a quadrangular building, 430 feet long, and 131 wide. The hall is covered with wrought-iron roofs of a light and elegant construction, which are divided into three bays, the centre one supported upon two rows of columns, connected by arched cast-iron girders; an arrangement that divides the hall into three arcades. Of these, the middle arcade is of thirty feet span, and the two exterior arcades have each a span of fifty feet. The whole building, which is fireproof, is surrounded by an open area, protected by a low parapet wall with a handsome cast-iron railing; this area affords a free communication with the vaults, which form the basement story, and promotes the thorough ventilation of the stores, so necessary for preserving all articles of food in a fresh and wholesome condition. The cost of the market, including the outside footpaths and curbing, was nearly £35,000 .... Extract from A Topographical Dictionary of England (1848), British History Online

do any of the older members remember the area of the covered market where the country produce was {I mean at the market street end}the set of iron railing and gates. during the war behind those gates where transport veicles and such like belong to the army.

Which War?

think this video has some footage?

[youtube]Ubs2y8k5RCI[/youtube]

those underground toilets were on the corner of market street i can still smell them now

Great Pics :o)

Absolutely smashin' photos, thanks a bunch. The Ford car by the bogs, I had the Ford Classic version as my first car, lovely memories of that market and the car.

found this plaque at the market offices
Went to ask if they had any old photos but was told they were copyrighted

James Hannay McGaul JP served two terms as mayor 1908-09 and 1919-20 and Michael Byrne who opened the covered market, I'm assuming its the same person served as mayor in 1917-18.

which was the covered market part
I think there was the main part then was it the covered part where Eli "ee r Eli remember the shouts" used to have a stall and was there an open part on Market Street

I think the covered market refers to the main building.

possibly if they put a new roof on it and had closed it for a while before reopening may have had alterations on existing market hall
Date on plaque 1909

just looked at your map and it looks like it may have been an extension to main part

If you look back at the photo's further back in the thread, you can see the addition at the market st end, the addition roof running at right angles to the main building (toilets pic). I think that part of the market had the country stalls in there.

good spot ta

As a follow-up to my original question ... It would appear that they weren't filled in, the ground level was lowered to the basement and the current car parks are at approximately that level. This would tie up nicely with some of the replies, thank you.

Thanks to all who posted the photo's; they bring back many memories.
I lived in this area as a child.
In the early to mid 70's, I worked in an office on the top floor of a building in Hamilton St, overlooking the Old Market.
It was always condensed with people and so much noise.
My colleague and I would nip into the market to by fruit for lunch and oh how lively it was.
I went to the Market with my toddler, he was only 2 and he went missing. I was frantic, running everywhere looking for him and I eventually found him sitting on the steps at the back of the Market with an older Gentleman, Oh was I fortunate!

great pics.i remember going there with my mum.

i remember going to the old market, remember my dad taking me once and buying me a skirt with big red roses all over it! i thought it was great----well it was for the time!!
i also remember Ely and the way he used to juggle those dish's, how they never got broke or chipped i'll never know!
going to the market these days isn't the same, going to the old one was like an event!!

i used to love the smell of the old market, all the different smells intermingling it reminds me of the good old days.

I know I've posted about this before, but I can't find it now. In the 1940's my gran or grandad often used to take me to the market. We would always buy some treacle toffee, which was in large thin slabs. When we got it home, I used to be allowed to break it up with the toffee hammer. I've still got that hammer.

does it still have stinky fish market? Not been there 4 at least 20yrs.

That toffee hammer looks big opposed to the ones you get now.

Modern toffee hammer

Ha! a mere toy. Mine's 7" (my toffee hammer that is)

Little bit of info on toffee hammers.

A toffee hammer is a very small hammer designed for breaking up sheets or slabs of hard toffee, such as bonfire toffee, into small pieces suitable for consumption. A toffee hammer is sometimes included as a novelty item in gift packs produced by toffee manufacturers.

Toffee hammers were used by suffragettes, in particular members of the Women's Social and Political Union, for breaking windows as a form of protest during their campaign for votes for women.

The term "toffee hammer" may also used to refer to any unusually small hammer, for example in orthopedic surgery

There were toilets in the main market hall, but I believe they were only ladies' toilets. If you entered the main hall via the entrance closest to the Market Street/ Hamilton Street and walked along that aisle past Leon's Toy Stall (oh, the memories! ), the toilets were situated on the right. I think they were upstairs, and were part of the market offices.

Access to the country stalls was nearby, down some steps.

While I'm on this thread, I have a couple of questions of my own to pose.

Does anyone have any idea of the layout of the stalls in the main hall during the 1960s? I can remember a few of them, but would like to know more.

Also, does anyone remember the 'Market Carnivals' of the early 1970s? Probably 1972 - 1973.

Finally, I was wondering if anyone else found it rather suspicious that the market managed to survive for so many years - including the era of gas lighting - and then suffered 2 fires within a few years of each other?

It certainly made up the minds of the traders who were fighting to stay put!

good to see them pics of the market, I can still remember it vividly as I lost all my christmas presents as my mum had left them in Millies cafe, she was a good friend of Millie and decided to leave them there so I wouldn't nose if they where at home.

Just where the man is standing to the left of the bus stop across the road.

Go back to page one of this thread and you will see a picture of a man attempting to cross the road nearest the camera. Lokk over the road and you will see a bust stop and to the left of it a man. Then you see a set of railings and that was the underground toilets.

Thought you were going to say " I'm that man" !

Or...' That's my dad, that is'

The 1st pic,apart from the map was a typical market scene, i thought? Am i being pedantic? Or blind?

I was down in the archives the other day looking in the 1969 Hoylake Adviser for some other local research and stumbled upon this article about the fire. Hope you can read it?? If can't i'll add a clearer image to the picture a gallery!!

Nice find, ghostly1; thanks for posting it.

I remember waiting at that bus stop to catch the bus home,either the number 50 or 55 I think.It seems like yesterday.

Possibly the 50 or 58?

Thanks for that chriskay,I'm pretty chuffed to have got as close as I did to the route numbers.

Where did you live then, Mr. Beethoven?

Hi chrisk,I lived in a little hamlet on the banks of the Mersey called Rock Ferry.Happy days!

does anyone remember the man who had the pet shop. he had big ears he was a very nice man.

was he noddys mate.

nice one kimpri actually he had big nose as well , i can guess your reply,!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just dug out a pic of my dad and uncle on dad's stall in the market about 1960.

Just read the whole thread is a fantastic read i would of been 1yo when i burned down.

I remember Millies Cafe, ohhh the toast get it to takeaway and the butter used to soak through the bag.

Just read this topic, great info an pics thanks.

Great pics and lots of great info but does anyone know what date the New Market Hall was opened?

I remember that bus stop too.My friends and I would get off at that stop and buy shoes on a stall close by for £2.
I remember buying platform shoes that had a cork sole.
That summer I went to Canada to visit relatives and they had never seen such shoes!!!!

thats probably the same stall I bought a pair of platform boots.wish Id kept them as they came back in fashion.

Birkenhead Market on fire. Birkenhead hasn't been the same since this happened

It was the heart of the town.

Thanks for posting Pablo - spent many an hour in there

Used to love going to the old market,was in Birkenhead yesterday first time in a long time,what a miserable chewing gum dump the town centre is now,I think the destruction by the Wirral council of Birkenhead is nearly complete,they in their wisdom have screwed up most ways into Birkenhead with traffic lights and bad road markings,so leaving the place in an unswept tip is a great help to get people shopping out of town and no Christmas lights as well in the town centre oh dear!.

About 1974. There used to be a nightclub underneath, the Hamilton. Used to be quite posh and had some good acts on

I remember The Hamilton.You could have a meal while watching the caberet.

Lovely pic pablo, used to love that market. Used to have all different types of stall not like it is now with mostly clothing. One butcher left in the butcher aisle, sacrilige. I still go down every week for bits and bobs but its not the same. If you want anything a bit out of the ordinary now you have to hunt around like a bloodhound.

The market in Leeds, which I think is the oldest in the country,is like a walk through your past. It is so like old Birkenhead market.

Bezzymate, you'right about Kirkgate Market in Leeds. As soon as I set foot in there, it stirred up fuzzy memories of old Birkenhead market. I was 3 when it burnt down but I have memories of walking up steps to get into the place and the high roof, the noise and I remember once walking down Market Street holding hands with my Mum and Dad on the way to the place and my Dad disappearing into a cake shop and coming out with a doughnut for me. I remember how busy Market Street was as well.

The building on the extreme right looks like what was to become the Midland/HSBC bank on Hamilton st
Anyone know what is the tall building just to the left of it?

The square building housed steam driven ventilation fans for the Mersey Railway. The chimney behind was for the boiler house.

I thought it looked like one of the tunnel ventilation shafts but it didn't add up where it was
Cheers Chris

The Mersey Railway ran under Hamilton St. between Central and Hamilton Square.