Mervyn King the former governor of the Bank of England has said the recession was not caused by Labour, the Lie that it was caused by Labour is perpeptually repeated at each and every opportunity by the Conservative party, Esther McVey also loses no opportunity locally to hammer home the lie, I am suprised she did'nt blame the closure of Remploy on Labour as well, Mr King goes on to say , no one country could have foreseen the crisis.

Might not have been caused--but it was on their watch-- and did they do enough to avert it or mitigate it? Anyway we ended up with the Lib Con pact and they have had a chance----judging by the xmas expenditure (snodvans wifes Cheshire Oaks experience)doesn't seem like a recession.

Quote " no one country could have foreseen the crisis." Not sure about that . In 2006/7 the Channel 4 financial forums had people on there , predicting almost exactly what has happened so far, with worse to come after a false lul. Sadly the site finished so I cant refer back to it. At the time , no-one believed them especially about the price of houses dropping through the floor in 2008

........hmmm! how much of this spending is via our flexible friend?

Between 1999 and 2002, Mr Brown ordered the sale of almost 400 tons of the gold reserves when the price was at a 20-year low. Since then, the price has more than quadrupled, meaning the decision cost taxpayers an estimated £7 billion, according to Mike Warburton of the accountants Grant Thornton.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...old-Britains-gold-Gordon-Brown-told.html

Not for one moment do I believe it was all his fault, but down to the backroom boys who advise in their capacity as whizz kids. These young inexperienced muppets who are still advising and climbing the ladder as they do, have much to answer for. Gordon Brown took a lot of the flack, but he should never have made an announcement prior to the sale which caused the bullion price to plummet.
One major mistake at a time when we, as a country, were not(apparently) in a recession.
If I remember correctly, wasn't Gordon Brown the one who was flying all over the world, advising other countries how to manage the situation of the recession?

A few sweeping statements there fish,it happened on their watch, does that then make them responsible? did they they do enough, well yes according to Mervyn King they did, faring better than the US and some other countries, as to the festive spending,we used to save throughout the year tontine, credit union and as was mentioned many used credit cards consequently spending what they didnt have, but many many more werent able to join the merry throng at Cheshire Oaks or elsewhere for that matter, and Iam not talking about the benefit abusers, just ordinary folk struggling, like my son who works eight to six and most weekends, just to live and pay his way, you may say hes lucky, why? does he not deserve what any normal person would wish for? god help us all if we are considered to be lucky for being employed, but then that is the myth created by those that hold power, the expenses thieves, the manipulators of justice,the vested interests merchants the list is endless, and they have the temerity to condem.

Casper, there was so much involved in all this collapse. Here is an article saying that Mervyn King was against Gordon Brown's Tobin Tax for example. I've never heard of Tobin Tax and I don't think any one thing or person was responsible for where we as a country, or the world, ended up. It must be said, that if we had joined the euro as Mr Blair and many had wanted, we would be in a far worse position. So wheels within wheels and Mr King also had a big part to play, being Gov. of the Bank of England. Prior to 1996 the Government made decisions on interest rates etc.etc., then changes allowed all banking/financial decisions to be handed over to the B.O.E. SO, how I see it is when you have banks of one country, trying to deal with politicians in another country, the banks have got far too caught up in areas that they should not be a part of. How many deals have been made since involving the banks? We wouldn't know but Banks should stick with banks not be involved with corrupt/stupid or twisted leaders of any country.


Payback time for Gordon Brown as Mervyn King backs Obama



Gordon Brown was yesterday stabbed in the back by Mervyn King when the Gov of the Bank of England sided with Pres Obama and his banking levy as opposed to Gordon Brown and his so-called "Tobin tax". It had appeared yesterday was to mark the re-emergence of Gordon Brown as an international statesman after he reiterated his plans for a tax on every financial transaction and appeared to suggest there was growing support for his idea.

Today those comments and those assumptions lay in tatters with more and more prominent figures from the world of finance looking towards Pres Obama's banking levy. Unless Gordon Brown backtracks it would appear he may well be sidelined and isolated yet again just as it appeared he was making headway on the international scene and with UK voters.

It has been common knowledge in the markets that Mervyn King and Gordon Brown have not seen eye to eye for some time with speculation that Mervyn King would have lost his position at the Bank of England early last year but for the recession. Whether yesterday was Mervyn King's time to gain revenge on Gordon Brown is debatable but the UK prime minister certainly felt the impact of the Bank of England seemingly siding with the US authorities rather than the UK government.

http://www.financialadvice.co.uk/ne...on-brown-as-mervyn-king-backs-obama.html

I agree granny my main point is that the Conservatives have been consistent with apportioning blame for everything on the Labour party, and as you have quite rightly stated many factors have to be taken into account and the finger can be pointed in so many directions, the saying glass houses and stones springs to mind, but for the truth to emerge we will have to wait.

It is traditional for all parties to blame their predecessors is it not?

Yes they do Chris, but not to the extent and the lengths the Tories have gone to on this one, every blip on the screen, oh it was the fault of the last government, they are doing a damn fine job now of protecting their paedo mates, the perpetrators will almost certainly remain protected,or the few who have died will take the blame,certainly one very high profile Tory known to all but cant be named in the house because of Parlimentry privilage, I feel ashamed that we harbour those of all parties who molest children yet are protected to save embarrasment to their respective parties.

Although I agree with you, Casper, that any paedophiles should be pursued and certainly not shielded, I think you misunderstand the principle of parliamentary privilege, which in fact allows members in the chamber to make statements which, if repeated outside the House, would be slanderous.

The bit about Parlimentary privilege came from a newspaper article Chris, just repeating what was reported, will look into it further.

It is never mentioned that after the banking crisis, the economy was GROWING again under Labour until the tories took over and wrecked the recovery.

I find their constant 'Reduce the deficit' cries a bit irritating too. What 'reducing the deficit' actually means is that the rate at which we are accumulating debt it being cut, not the debt itself which continues to grow. In fact they have not managed to even cut the deficit! They have cut spending, but by doing so, have cut our earnings more!

We need to chuck this lot out. they are a huge failure, and an economic disaster.

They have used the recession to pursue their own agenda, an excuse to attack the welfare system and privatise the NHS and demonise the unions yet again, looking back to the Thatcher years it was they that encouraged people onto the disability register to massage the unemployment figures, they now believe they have the mandate to attack the system which they so blatantly encouraged, if they are allowed to govern again they may seek to reintroduce the Poll tax I wouldnt rule anything out, the hard right is on the rise, get ready to tighten your belts.

If you have an LCD TV larger than 40 inches you are not being affected by a recession.

Bullox!!! You not heard of Brighthouse or Cash Converters??

They where flogging them in asda, £130 for a 42"Polaroid, at Christmas.

Well, it's all going to get interesting in the next couple of months. I don't believe any of the parties know how to muster up votes any longer, without telling lies. Of course, they have become increasingly aware that the British public have become quite knowledgeable about their telling of lies and fabricated stories about each other. Blame game, lies and opinion polls don't seem to mix any longer.
In the misery of not having the ability to believe any one of them, for myself there will be a chart and each political party will have a fail or win tick box. Eventually, the ticks will be counted and the winner will get my vote, that is because I feel we should all vote, no matter what. They cannot be allowed to take that away from us.
The whole process is likely to become very interesting or extremely boring.
Place your bets..

Anyone with an ounce of sense could see a recession coming, way back when it was called the "downturn" by the BBC.

Gordon Brown wrongly assumed that we could spend our way out of it by reducing VAT to 15%.

Even some of the more moderate Tories are begining to lose faith as they can see the damage being done, the Libdems are getting ready to jump ship in case the Tories lack a majority, the far right is growing stronger in Germany, will we hear the tramp of the jackboot again soon? extremism is taking a grip, a coalition of UKIP and the Tories would certainly push us to the far right.

What agenda has Cameron got as he will not have a t.v. debate unless the Green party are involved?

If you procure household items from Brighthouse and complain of not having enough money and being affected by the 'recession' then you are a mug.

The problem with today's society is that people see things such as Sky TV as a necessity and when paying for it gets tough, they plead poverty.

Hard to see much of a future for Torys as things stand. This party hasn't won a general election for 22 years and isn't looking especially likely to win the next one.

As I predicted in 2010 they have inflicted further damage on themselves by forming their unhappy alliance with the discredited Lib Dems and made only modest progress towards balancing the budget, let alone cutting the actual size of the state.

They make a series of impotent noises about Europe and immigration but fail to deliver anything.

Their biggest cultural/social "achievement" seems to be gay marriage. Hardly likely to win back the Tory faithful but probably not enough to convince many Lib Dems that they're no longer the nasty party.

Their modest success (or rather avoidance of abject failure) in keeping the union together is tempered by the fact that they don't have a clue what they should now do with it, or indeed with England, where people do actually still vote for them.

And it isn't even clear, as they begin setting out their stall for the next election, that any of these things are even important to the Tories. They don't have any ideology, any principles, any vision or anything at all really besides being slightly less incompetent than Labour on economic management.

Despite a strong record on the economy and a fairly sympathetic hearing on the BBC Cameron looks on course to lose quite heavily against a Labour leader who is a bit of a laughing stock.

I know ideology is not fashionable at the moment and doesn't in itself win elections. What it does do though is gel a party together around some guiding principles so that people actually know what they're getting beyond the dream sheet of a typical manifesto and the schmoozing of a media friendly leader. The Conservative Party badly needs this.

What the actual ideology should be is not all that clear. It is a very broad grouping but at the simplest level the split between the Thatcherite radicals and the old corporatist/paternalist Torues is the most obvious split with no obvious remedy.

It's all a waste of time and none of it will really affect me in anyway so I don't know why I bother.

Best post on here for years. Well said HansG.

Food For Thought! It must be labours turn again.I wish we could get away from this pendulum of a swing to Labour and back again, when we forget, the previous Government shafted us in much the same way as whoever is the outgoing administration for the wealthy.
Although universally regarded as a man of intellectual brilliance and personal warmth and decency. Michael Foot the last true Socialist Labour leader led his party to the worst electoral defeat in modern times.

HansG......... Not bad for a 'copy and paste' from AJS

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1454698&mid=0&nmt=Tories+the+future+(part1)

Impressed to the point of confusion.12,059 to go

Well spotted, granny. I wish people would credit sources.

... and you thought "The Lady Detective" was a series on the TV. She's for real and not much escapes her beady eyes! We have a smart cookie in our midst. Beware!

Read it and thought it very thought provoking.

I'll take credit for the opening lines thanks.

Flying visit- my point re. Brighthouse/ Cash -Converters may have been mis-interpreted.

These companies in my opinion are Vultures- I hate them all.

True- there are people who like to 'keep up with the Jones'live beyond their means but it these ...-bags, these vultures who 'allow' them the capacity to do so.

With saying that 'poor people bashers' tend to assume that they have bought their 42" widescreen tele- outright.

What ever the source the content is very true. Well spotted and thanks for posting it.

More food for thought. I was wondering what happens to the food in the food banks when the recipients go away on their holidays? Is it kept for them when they come back or is it given to others as extra rations? Just wondering because they had a lovely tan and the question has been exercising me since.

That is taking the pee Bandy .
Best one i heard was, A family driving to the food bank in a Mercedes Benz.That was during the school run.

quote "Best one i heard was, A family driving to the food bank in a Mercedes Benz.That was during the school run."
(a) Could have been a friends
(b) Could have bought it when working but have now lost their job and benefits not yet sorted.
People using food banks are in an immediate crisis situation and we no longer expect people to sell all that they possess to be receive support.

well said rossie too many people judging,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30747185

The peasants will no longer be revolting.

Not really, I was just asking the question.

Invest your money wisely and of course you can beat the "recession"...what is this "recession" people speak of?!

I don't hear of many taxi drivers losing jobs so people must be able to use such "luxuries" especially in the affluent areas of BirkenVegas and The Fez (New Ferry)!!

Or do the humble tax payer enable these people to benefit??

Put the keyboard down DJDuck and step away from the Gin.

So far you've boasted of living in the South Wirral (Bromborough... LOL!!), not knowing what the recession is and not knowing where Seacombe is.

It's either half term and your Mum has let you stay up extra late, a bored troll sitting in his Brom bedsit in his PJ's with a can of Strongbow, or a combination of both.

Ill have to repeat myself on here....it doesnt matter whos "in power" the public is and will always be the cash cow for their taxation spending. Period. My dad predicted in 2005 the recession cause in his job at the time he could see the massive over reaching supply of debt being fuelled by perception of house price increases and keeping up with joneses mentality.
The loan givers that said yes to mortgages you couldnt afford on your wages are now replaced by parasites like wonga "selling money" to make money.
I personally have zero debt because i dont trust anyone or "advisers".
The gov will rape everything off you if it can.they have NO money,its ours.
Society as george carlin said 10 years ago is obsessed by self indulgent consumerism with no care for the consequences ,weve switched off like the fat robot consumers of the usa .
Meanwhile any gov will rape your pension off you,degrade your job,pay you less if they can...
The prog last week bbc 2 "the super rich and us " explained it in detail. Its been 40 years in the making...

The bottom line is energy wealth money loan providers insurance suppliers telecoms companies etc etc are all corrupt and power money mad.(regulators are weak) The reigns to do it are given by gov policies.
Scumbag camerons 13 mil for his party is mostly from you guessed it ...the city
Theres the power not him. Hes a d***head.what goes on in parliment is just pantomime distraction.

Excellent program. Exposed the evil of capitalism and how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The media should be highlighting this kind of philosophy, but of course it wont.

Russell Brand explains it all very well in Revolution - trouble is the readership tend to be people who know already.

The human condition is not to be bothered ultimately by things that dont directly affect you.
So if you apply that to the last 25 years...mps dont care your sons and daughters are getting killed in a war to protect oil wealth,an mp doesnt care about you being on £6 an hour and your pension raped(theirs is ok) ,the ceo charging you 7534% on your loan just wants to make £, the salesman ripping you off just wants his commission , the oaps treated like ... in homes and hospitals arent the parents of multi million pound private company owners,the fat obese chavs in macs filling their face with calories dont give a toss about how the animals are treated to make that food, and so on and so on....
Until it comes to their door!!!....
People believe the hype theyre told by the gov controlled puppet media...like the recessions over!! HA tosh.
There was a brilliant prog years ago called "tower block of commons" it high lighted the lack of concern or care of mps at the results of their self serving policies. They were forced to confront them.
This trickle down of wealth from low tax paying uk based rich and ceos is utter tosh that is go on about all the time ,Its more like an hour glass squeezing the middle class.

esther mcvey is a horrible tory lickspittle bitch I hope she is booted out at the polls,

millionaire Russell brand talks utter rubbish

Of course it won't.
The media feeds us as directed; as a country, our progress is manipulated; internal controls of Government and opposition are being overridden, whilst they fumble in the dark for another 'fantastic' new strategy or policy for the hardworking; and our (joe public's) thought process, is being squeezed into a narrative structure. As changes take effect, we silently slip into a haze of amnesia ,forgetting how tasty the best bits used to be.
......what is the long term alternative to Capitalism ? Surely, economic democracy where workers control most enterprises would be a disaster and eventually lead to far worse. There would ALWAYS be the leaders who determine the outcome.

Letting workers have a say and a profit from their companies good fortune or a society helped by the no money "lets" system.
I do like russell brand but hes loaded/just wants the spotlight
and isnt saying anything new.
The "love police" charlie veitch has moaned on youtube about it for years too. The uk has merely become the usa on a smaller scale.
"Will full ignorance"as carlin called it.

the site is getting like Radio Moanerside.

I think its good that finally the public ,thro the govs massive incompetence and criminal behaviour ,are on mass now aware the gov your sacred mps are utter ... and serve themselves via city money,influence ,corruption,lobbyists of massive corps etc.
Most people are trash tv media following junk food eating bloated distracted robot head in an iphone consumers. Wrapped up in possessions and material consumption.
But some like me remember political and economic history.

It's not whether you remember history but how you interpret it. Come up with a better way of working things out if you've got it sussed. Tell me which country's system is better? Just be grateful that you are in this country and not countless others.

well said bandy

Dear bandy coot, i have family members living in norway for last 13 years,like germany ,it survived quite well. Funny enough norway kept its own money. Its highly taxed but runs well,services work etc
Canadas the same. Its survived.
The systems so bent here you can get a hung parliament and still get in. People do forget no ones got a majority in 14 years.
Big decisions like immigration 2004,the war 2003,de regulating banks ,public sector cuts etc etc etc are all done without public consent yet destroy their lives/jobs.
By slashing everything all you get is lack of spending,lack of investment ,lack of tax coming in so as in the past with a conservative gov it cuts its own throat...
Go on youtube and watch george carlins "american dream" speech....it was ten years ago but it mirrors the uk now.hes talkin bout usa but its us in the future.
And he was just a comedian !!

I'm inclined to believe that Denmark has it sorted.

That's all very well Sven but have you seen the price of a pint in Norway? No way I say. Oh, and I've been there, a long time ago, but I've been there.

Its not as expensive as cannes or monaco ive been to. The point is it works although its pricey.the jobs are there and the infra structure ,its minus 15 and it doesnt grind to a halt.
One of the main probs with the uk is we pay dearly but get naff quality back. Were a country of talk waffle debate but no action. Were weak and over tolerant so we get abused.
Ive been around a bit in this world and its bad elsewhere but also run well if done right.
Look at the media banging on about isis all the time. We created them.we replaced one evil for another. Think sadam would allow a sunni uprising if still in power? No way.
Usa students where recently asked "whose the biggest threat to world peace? Usa or isis?"
They rightly said usa.
Human race cherry picks morality when it wants.
this week youll see charles and cameron shakin hands with saudi officials,a country be heading people every week under "law" yet were so shocked at media fuelled biased against "terrorists"
no one cares or remembers the 100,000 plus who got bombed by us in 2003. But...
were the "heroes" tho hey !?
The weapons isis use cant be traced to usa/russian gun dealers in the 80s.
Everything is connected but society choose or want to forget.
look at the savagery of the british colony wars against any dissent from the black population etc etc.
So if i had to pay alot for a pint to have a well run competent efficient lots of employment no war like pleasant society ,id pay it.
its a utopia but we live in a dystopia .
i like the point about denmark ,its banned halal too. Great. A country with balls to face up to a meaningless religion that causes great animal suffering.

And so it came to pass,gone to the grave with lots of unanswered question

To be honest Sven, reading through your post I think yourself, along with everyone else, cherry picks what they want to take on board. I'm no different. I'd rather believe a little bit of good and carry on because nothing I do or say will make a blind bit of difference and I'm not going to give myself stomach ulcers thinking too much about it. Generally I'm happy with my lot, and I've been through some shoit believe me, so therefore I just get on with it. Even the crap I spout on here depends on what mood I'm in. I do feel sorry for the future generations of our indigenous population though. Our country has gone.

Which political party has used force and threats of force and the use of the armed forces to put down strikes or civil disobedience? which government gave a home to a deposed despot guilty of murdering his own people? are these the actions of a reasonable government with the best interests of its own people at heart?

Er, the Russian Communist Party?

Gosh Bandy, you nearly got it right, its the type of thing you would expect from dictatorships, I can see the logic in your answer.

You're wasting your breath with me mate. The other thing lately is the crap that Green Party leader was putting out on the Sunday Politics show. She was advocating doing it the Cuban way with regards to wages, she didn't say that but the policy is the same as they use. The Cuban I spoke to wasn't happy with their policy but he had to live with it. If you don't like it in UK at least you can ship out, you're not forced to stay.

Why should I ship out? am I not entitled to a say in how the country is run? an alleged democracy, people vote to change things,your answer seems to be dont try to change things, put up with what we have or go, sounds a bit like this government as regards to wasting my breath was it not you who responded to my post first,and I responded as is the usual courtesy. I am sorry if you feel I have wasted my breath and your time, take care.

The "you" was just a general you not a personal you. Oh well.

There is a small but significant difference between Saudi Arabia and ISIS when it comes to beheading people. Saudi Arabia beheads convicted criminals. They have Capital punishment for Capital crimes and their preferred method is beheading (where you may recall, we used to prefer the oh-so-refined method of "hanging by the neck until dead"). ISIS on the other hand, apparently likes to behead people for "crimes" such as "being a foreign Journalist" or "being of another religion". But what the hey, if the argument serves your purpose, never mind, huh?
p.s. I am no fan of Saudi Arabia nor their punishments for various crimes; just wanted to make a salient point that many people seem to have overlooked.

?

"San Miguel" the new loopy juice has a lot to answer for.
The recession effects us all,the bill has not come in yet.After the election the real recovery will have to begin, you can only borrow yourself out of it, until the butcher wants his pound of flesh.The new Greek Finance Ministers statement on channel 4 news acknowledges they can only negotiate how they pay not if.Only the poor have paid up till now and their pockets are empty, so if you think it is over and it passed you bye, think again.
Remember "The Pitchforks are Coming"

The Greeks, amongst others, fiddled their figures to get into the EU and it's come back to bite them in the arris. They all believe in stashing under the mattress and it's a duty to evade tax. Their thinking not mine.

What am i cherry picking candy boot ? My views are like this all the time.mood aside.
Maybe im seen as misanthropic and extreme even but i like to see the true underneath of stories and why things really happen.
I dont just passively accept whats told me by gov or media.
Thats why i loved george carlin.
He said once "language is used and changed to make you accept bull**it".
its funny how words are created even now in media to so called explain things...
did we even know or care pre 2001 about...
times of austerity
islamaphobia
al qeuda
london centric
were all in this together
osama bin laden
olygarts
radicalisation
war on terror
wealth polarity
quantative easing
consumer society
zero hours contracts
tax avoidance schemes
selfie culture
and so on....
watch george carlins "we like war"
"People are dumb"
"Advertising" "religion is BS"
on youtube.
such a fwd seeing man...

Is that proved in a court of law by 12 individuals?? Far trials?
They get that savage end for adultery or theft ...
A tad OTT dont you think?!

I love it when richard dawkins blows islam out the water by listening a clerics rant on peaceful loving islam then squeezes out of him,that he tries to avoid,the sentence of death for women who leave/not believe in islam. Brilliant.
Be head for that "crime"?! Again...madness.

They all believe in stashing it under the mattress and its a duty to avoid tax, sounds familiar, dont the hierachy do something like that here? or maybe I misunderstood I think they call them tax avoidence schemes, only to be used when the mattress gets lumpy or the floorboards begin to creak

Major problems with Greece included the constant rise of utility bills, as the people managed to reduce their usage and therefore costs, so the bills continued to spiral. Companies trying to reach their forecasted profits. Much the same has happened here. Greeks also still have the mind set that they are the supreme race because of the Greek Empire, history and they continue to live in the past. Just don't seem to be able to break the mould.
Even so, Germany have screwed them up by exporting to Greece more than Greece exports. I really don't know what their exports are , probably very little other than olives. Of course, when the industries were split up amongst the European Union, to even out profit and loss,at the end of the day, no one country were as self sufficient or productive as they had been, we all have to rely on each other. The more countries that join, the worst it will get..that's just my opinion. Not enough of anything to go around.
Anyone who thinks we will benefit greatly from fracking, also need to do a bit of research A) we will export, B) the energy cost will not reduce for us. It's just another resource that will ultimately be commandeered by our friends across the channel. Those who would rather not have it in their own backyard but happy reap the rewards.
Whoever leads this country for the next five years, need to be strong, forward thinking on a massive scale and not to try and show prowess by dragging us into another war at massive costs to the tax payer.
That Green Party leader is a joke Bandy, what a fool!
I do have to wonder how many of the present day politicians have been brainwashed whilst at University and had direction from the 'once, children of the sixties' who became University lecturers and who had an unscrupulous concept of politics and ideology.

Plus.... Greece has a population of only 11 million and are the gateway of Europe. Migrants are 25% of the population and illegal immigrants are 10%.According the The Economist, Greece spent €63m in 2013 to prevent illegal immigration; just €3m came from Europe’s border agencies.
Also:
German officials accused Italians of slipping refugees money so they could travel to Germany. Such episodes foster suspicion, and thus threaten to destroy a system based on trust between member state

Who can we trust in this EU quagmire ? We are all paying heavily, thus austerity is just part of the package we will continue to face.

Its a bad scene granny (as our green friends would no doubt say) the whole world is in a mess, we have been brainwashed into a state of consumerism the must have society, when we first married I went to work on a bike, stopped many times by the police, no lights, now its must have BMs, Mercedes,personalised no plates etc etc bigger and better, the bubble has got to burst our economy is living on tick, a society based on debt,tricked into emptying our pockets because some worthless celebrity or footballer has got this that or the other, even media speak encourages people, must have, the latest etc, are we so brainwashed that we believe it all? queues to buy new mobile phones argh!

The next trick being :

Chancellor George Osborne said: ‘People who have worked hard and saved all their lives should be free to choose what they do with their money, and that freedom is central to our long-term economic plan.

‘From next year they’ll be able to access as much or as little of their defined contribution pension as they want and pass on their hard-earned pensions to their families tax-free


Ha ha ! Just another way to keep the money flowing and probably to allow parents and grandparents to provide substantial deposits on property for their offspring, endeavouring to keep the housing market buoyant. Where will it end ? If the housing market collapses again and interest rates rise, it's another disaster waiting to happen.
Once the resources of everyone have been bled to extremes, what will be left to fall back on in hard times? Just another sticking plaster so far as I can see, and as you say, a nation lost in consumerism of which the young generation have and will expect so much, which I believe is partly due to expectations placed and supported by the parents of my generation. We hoped ours would have better than we did, although in hind sight, we had it bloody good, bikes, horse and cart, welly boots the lot. Oh, and chicken on a Sunday.

End product of trying to develop and move far too quckly, more quickly than we can adjust to. That's where the Arab nations have got stuck. We were beheading people for adultery, theft, and heracy in Queen Mary reign late 1500's. Still hanging people in the 1960's. We shot conscientious objectors in the first world war and shut away the mentally ill, in institutions for 60yrs. The Arab nations were still in tribes 100 years ago, how can they develop at such a rapid pace to catch up with us. Many are just not able to culturally or even wish too. We can't deploy democracy so easily on nations who have not experienced it , and when they see the mess we are in, who would want it ?

Do you know, sometimes there is more common sense and good information provided on this forum than all the party political broadcasts put together.

Thank you sven, casper, granny and the others for your contributions

Like the chicken on a Sunday granny,never saw them days as bad times just normal what we were used too, parents did their best with what they had, some of the best meals I ever tasted, proper cooked meals sat around the heart of the house the kitchen table situated not far from an open fire,wont say coal fire because it was more often than not coke or wood not complaining look back on those days with great fondness, dont envy the alleged good life of todays kids, as you quite rightly say we are to blame in some ways by trying to give them everything we never had.

I think it's more a case of "we progressed and the arabs didn't" than anything else. Trouble is there are a crowd now who want to take us backwards to those days again. It's all evolution but would rather go forwards than backwards. Fundemental Christians are no different, they want to go backwards as well. The arabs were the most enlightened people going at one time, the knowledge they are responsible for is vast and we learned a lot from them. Somewhere down the line they lost the plot and we're losing it now as well.