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Posted By: Dilly dsl connection - 17th May 2015 8:23am
Hi all, I got my internet through the P.O and I frequently lose dsl connection and think it may be down to the router modem thingy . So my question is can I buy a better one and will it work with the P.O internet that is coming via B.T phone line ? Many thanks Dilly.
Posted By: Mark Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 8:44am
To answer your question yes you can.
But you dont want to. . .

The reason you do not want to is that you have to configure the new router with the P.O. settings and passwords. Ive not dealt with them, but some company's like sky you have have to hack the passwords out of them, and they always say which is fair enough we can not support any other routers only the one we supplied you with.

Factors for Loosing Connection.

Noise on the line. Which becomes your phone providers problem.
Micro filter has failed, you need this to prevent the connection dropping if your using voice calls while on the internet at the same time.

You should have a micro filter connected to each phone that connects to your BT Line including extensions in other rooms.

Micro filters start from about £3

Hope that helps.
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 9:39am
Cheers Mark, They sent me a new router out when the problem first started and this worked for a month or so then gave up all together so I am now back on the original. I have spare filters that they supplied and changing them seems to make no difference. I only have one phone line which is in the spare room on which I have a wired desktop. I use a tablet through wireless connection anywhere else. I will have to get back on to them to see if they can sort it but their customer service is a nightmare, II was put on hold one time for over an hour and when you finally get to speak to somebody they are not very helpful.Thanks again you have saved me the expense of a new router which I probably would not be able to connect. Cheers Dilly.
Posted By: Mark Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 9:45am
Make a log of of when its disconnecting, i know you wont be watching for all the disconnections, but log the ones you can.

Noise on the Line.
If there is excess noise on the line, this can cause the router to disconnect and try again due to the poor quality, just like you and I saying let me call you back its a poor line / signal.

Environment.
Look out side and see where your BT line Runs ?
Does i go through trees to the pole.
Does it go underground.

So if its in the trees when its windy could be causing the cable to be disturbed and Noise on the line.

Wet if its been raining and your cable goes underground it could be in water and degrading the signal.

In these situations being the Sherlock homes can get you the results over time. You will in time be able to second guess when it will be at its worst.

Your router will have a built in log, but can be difficult to understand and most times its hidden anyway.

Mark
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 10:20am
Thanks Mark. The lines are overhead and do look to be in poor condition.When an engineer from openreach last came out he actually said that and it was due to BT investing in new lines. Thanks again to your help. Dilly
Posted By: fish5133 Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 1:35pm
Had similar problem for 4 years on and off. Really got bad again last autumn. new router sent but not the problem. BT engineer said it kept disconnecting because the download speeds were so a low around 1mbps. Seemed to have fixed the regular disconnection--maybe only twice a night instead of 10 or 20 times. Line speeds not improved that much. Got t to 7mps which lasted a week. Lucky to get 3mbps. Virgin help line now say that's normal. Cant help feeling fobbed off --so looking to see if satellite internet is possible.
Does seem to worsen with windy wet weather which suggests to me fault is in an external cable.

Wondering if the type of phone I have could be a factor--might try an ordinary phone rather than digital hands free german one.
Good luck Dilly. Do post your findings if you get it sorted..Causes so much aggro in our house with the kids moaning
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 1:48pm
Hi Fish, I just checked and mine is reading 72 Mbps and signal very strong but having said that it reads that when I have no connection. Not that I understand a word of it smile
Posted By: Mark Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 2:09pm
@ DIlly.
Your readings are telling us what your Wifi connection is not your broadband speed connection speed.

You have told us at 74mbs is the speed between you and your router, that's why when the connection drops your connection to your router and your device is still connected and still the same speed.

If you want me to remote connect to your computer and look at your settings drop me a pm, it only takes 5 mins to set up a remote connection.

If you want to know what speed your broad band is doing that's from the connection on the wall to the big internet world try this broad band speed tester .

http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/

Click on Begin Speed Test.

Its normal for it to say its downloading as that is what the test is all about.

You will then get the correct results.


* Interference with Wifi Signals (Near the aerials)
* Digital Phone Reciever (move it seen this lots of times).
* Microwave oven when on.
* Baby Monitors

There on the same radio waves as your wifi connection and thats why a Wifi can drop out but not your router to the outside world.
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 4:28pm
Hi Mark, just done the download speed check as you recommended and it came back with 3Mbps.Cheers
Posted By: Mark Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 4:35pm
You must be a fair distance from the exchange, but its acceptable 3mb as you will not be on the latest fibre lines at that speed.

Do that test a few times a week, it should be fairly constant.
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 17th May 2015 5:57pm
Will do. Thanks again Mark.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: dsl connection - 18th May 2015 10:17am
One thing Mark mentioned was noisey line. With all filters and ext. phones pulled out, the line should absolutely silent. You can do the BT test by dialling 17070. After the line I.D. you have a menu. Press 2 for "Quiet Line".

It's important to verify that the fault is on the line to your house and nothing inside, otherwise BT will bill you for £130.00p !!! They are good like that. Bless them !

Hope this helps. Apologies if I'm teaching my Granny to suck eggs.
Posted By: Alonso Re: dsl connection - 18th May 2015 1:37pm
Formerly with Tiscali, which is now Talk Talk, I had no end of problems with my BB connection. For months I was phoning them for help. I asked for a visit from an engineer and was told that it would be very expnsive. Even their email replies were hard faced. In the end I called BT, and was easily able to transfer my business to them. The problem persisted and BT sent out an engineer who quickly recognised the problem. It was a bad connection on the telephone pole. He got up on the pole and gave me a different connection. He even went to the exchange at Upton and made sure everything was running right. Problem was sorted. Insist on an engineer's visit. I too had the noise on line and constant disconnection. Good luck.
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 19th May 2015 8:26am
Cheers guys, I think an engineer visit is the only solution to my problem as I am no way Internet or computer savvy. Thanks again.
Posted By: Mark Re: dsl connection - 19th May 2015 12:55pm
if your out of contract normally after 12 months but check, as it can be 18 or 24 months.
call and threaten to leave.

when you get through to the cancellation team eventually, you will find they will move mountains for free to keep you.

just another way to get the service you should be getting anyway.
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 19th May 2015 5:43pm
Thanks Mark, I think I am only about 8months into my contract. DD is popping down tonight to see if he can suss anything out. Cheers
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: dsl connection - 19th May 2015 11:00pm
Broadband seems to be slow mainly from the length of the line, apart from that (and after clearing the usual junk from the PC), the speeds seem about right. I'm highly suspicious about the router's downstream attenuation figures, they are much better than possible for the line length. I should have hooked up another router for those figures.

Distance of line: 1.7km

Estimated speed: 6Mbs (BT), 5.5 - 7 (Plusnet)

Measured speed: 5.8, 6.1, 6.2, 6.7 Mbs (four readings), originally 3.8Mbs at PC until junk removed.

Router's Measurements (two readings).....

Upstream
Attenuation: 25.2, 25.1 db
Noise 6.8. 7.1 db

Downstream
Attenuation: 12.3, 11.3 db
Noise 6.4, 6.1

Unfortunately I know very little about Android Tablets so was unable to clean any junk and perform updates on that (if indeed Android does updates?).
Posted By: Mark Re: dsl connection - 20th May 2015 12:55am
Line attenuation is a measure of how much the signal has degraded between the DSLAM and the modem. This is largely a function of the distance from the exchange. The lower the dB, the better for this measurement. Attenuation is logarithmic and each 3dB of attenuation halves the strength of the signal power received.

20dB and below is outstanding
20dB-30dB is excellent
30dB-40dB is very good
40dB-50dB is good
50dB-60dB is poor and may experience connectivity issues
60dB or above is bad and will experience connectivity issues

The standard signal attenuation spread for a given speed is somewhere in the region of 15-20dB for ADSL2/2+ speeds and 25-30dB for ADSL1 speeds. The following is a "guesstimate" of the line attenuation and maximum attainable speed based on distance:

Less than 1km = 24Mbit
1.0km = 13.81dB = 23Mbit
1.5km = 20.7dB = 21Mbit
2.0km = 27.6dB = 18Mbit
2.5km = 34.5dB = 13Mbit
3.0km = 41.4dB = 8Mbit
3.5km = 48.3dB = 6Mbit
4.0km = 56dB = 4Mbit
4.5km = 62.1dB = 3Mbit
5.0km = 69dB = 2Mbit

source

As you say something isn't right ?

The downstream is out of this world Attenuation: 12.3, 11.3 db
The upstream is excellent Attenuation: 25.2, 25.1 db

Not sure i need to check but i think those numbers should be closer to being the same (Attenuation)


After a bit of reading your SNR may be your problem for the drop outs.

Downstream Noise 6.4, 6.1

Higher SNR/SNR margin numbers repesent cleaner/stronger signals, with less background noise. The higher the SNR margin the more stable the connection. In some instances interleaving can help raise the noise margin to an acceptable level.

6dB or below noise margin is bad, it will experience no synch or intermittent synch problems
7dB-10dB is fair but does not leave much room for variances in conditions
11dB-20dB is good with little or no synch problems (if no large variation)
20dB-28dB is excellent
29dB or above is outstanding

Note that there may be short term bursts of noise that may drop the margin, but due to the sampling time of the management utility in your modem, will not necessarily show up in its interface.

source

Note: For DSL, the further you are from the exchange, the lower your SNR and the higher your attenuation will be.

I need sleep now lol
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: dsl connection - 20th May 2015 2:31am
I must have the upstream and downstream back to front.

Noise figure should be ok, I get 6.1db downstream and I virtually live in the basement of a telephone exchange (atten = 2.7db).

Both BT and Plusnet estimates of bandwidth for Dilly's location say 6Mbs and that was what he was getting, all downloads looked smooth and one of the bandwidth test showed a graph which was pretty smooth.

There was some junk on the computer which may have been doing whatever, you can spend your life trying to analyse what junk does - I just delete/remove/obliterate it.

There were a few pups, A0026795.dll had some infection and there was a weirdo, something like wavymoon (that's deffo not exact name). Kaspersky and Malewarebytes were both happy after I did all I could see and they did their bit.

Machine is XP, windows update had an update for sound card but I had to roll driver back again. Youtube (in firefox) came up with an error, bit of a head scratch as other flash things were working, then I spotted a sound card error in device manager - not normally my first port of call for a flash problem, I just hit lucky.
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 20th May 2015 6:06am
Many thanks to DD who spent hours sorting my computer out. I only wish I had half a clue what you guys are talking about smile . Sadly the internet didn't fail once while he was here which is very unusual for the time he spent here. Thanks again to DD, Mark and eeverybody on here, what a great bunch of people to have to call on. Thank you.
Posted By: Mark Re: dsl connection - 20th May 2015 8:48am
With out checking the log files think

When you loose connection Next time !

1. Check the lights on your Router.
2. Has the Phone just rang ?
3. Have you used the microwave ?
4. Is it windy or Raining Outside ?

1. Confirms its a disconnection as the lights may be red.
2 -3 . Things around the home can disconnect WIFI giving the impression that its a router disconnecting.
4. The OutSide Environment.

Write your own log. As you can use this against the company when arguing the connection is unstable. And gives you the confidence to be sure of your answers and not fobbed off.
Posted By: Dilly Re: dsl connection - 20th May 2015 9:06am
Hi Mark, the house phone is never used nor does anyone have the number so never rings. Disconnection happens whatever the weather and as for the microwave,well that rarely gets used as my cooking skills are as bad as my computer skills smile . Yes I will now start to log it whenever it fails. Just can't believe it never happened last night when DD was there but that's sod's law. Thanks Mark
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