Have just read a fascinating letter from 1899 https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/467333/4/River_Fender.html which quoted (or made up) locals from Meols/Moreton using terms that seem now strangely out-of-place when thinking of accents/dialect of that part of the Wirral.

The term "..they CALLS it..." is reminiscent of softer country-style speech found still in Devon,Somerset, Dorset. While the phrase "ought" has more definite Northern credentials, usually associated with Yorkshire or Lancashire.

Anyway it got me pondering on how accents/dialects in those parts of the Wirral must have changed over the years, and if any phrases have remained from older times.I recall working with a guy from Neston in the early 1970s who told me that the local way of saying 'going home' was something like 'goin wam'. Admittedly that is the wilds of Wirral, but would be interesting to learn of local phrases/dialect, some examples would be great, thoughts/offerings?

Can’t help with any local dialect. However, my great, great grandfather Richard was born in Greasby in 1815. One of his sons married a girl in 1862 who had moved up to Birkenhead from Cheltenham. In a letter to her parents shortly after, she apparently described her new father-in-law as “…a very pleasant man, although rough in nature and appearance not befitting his status [Richard had made a fortune as a building contractor during Birkenhead’s expansion and now called himself a ‘Gentleman’] with a local accent I have oftimes difficulty in understanding.” Presumably she could understand what her husband and most others were saying, so could it be that Richard’s generation was the last to have a true Wirralian accent which was watered down by the influx into Birkenhead and other areas of Wirral of tens of thousands of people from all over the country?

People from Cheltenham still can't understand us when we speak, I lived down there for 12 months and a lot of them couldn't figure my speech out and I don't have a particularly bad dialect compared to some.

Golden insights there You may well be right, the 1899 article in questtion refers to old people then features the quote. So it may well be that it was a glimpse into an original accent/dialect that as you suggest may have been overwhelmed and shaped by immigration, mostly from Ireland. Similar process happened in the Home Counties as London/Londoners expanaded, local dialects became a minority.

That's the point, maybe the original accent/dialect; that was on the Wirral before mass-immigration from Ireland,Wales and Scotland, would have been easier for the folks of Gloucestershire to comprehend. Whatever you do, don't mention 'kecks' to them

Not Wirral, but soon after moving from London to a village in Shropshire, I came across a great example of local dialect.
In that area, it was usual to change certain words: mustn't became "munna", can't became "canna" & isn't became "inna".
One day, I heard this beauty from some schoolchildren, coming out of the village school, where presumably they'd been having an English lesson.
"You munna say canna, it inna right".
(And no, I'm not making that up).

The movement of people obviously has a direct consequence of accents in any particular area, on saying that, it is also possible to adopt what was known as BBC English through schooling and correction, regardless of what area one belongs to.
It is also possible to lose an accent with effort, my wife who had a Scottish accent some 40 years ago had to lose it, simply because she was fed up repeating herself, now it is hardly noticeable at all, however on returning to Scotland it all flows back as if she never left. On returning south of the border she looses her Scottish twang, proof if needed, its the company one keeps.

...what's wrong with saying "kecks" Erainn?

I like to go out weekends wearing me bezzy Kopin'off Kecks...

LMAO ...nah was just imagining how the good folks of Cheltenham would react to our friend using that phrase

They were ok down there actually, just had to repeat myself a lot the same as berts missus. The word "ought" has a lot of variations throughout the country, nought, owt, nowt just some I've heard, I think they used to speak more formal English anyway during the last century, when you read their letters they are beautifully written and contain flowery phrases, pity we've lost it.

Take your point..that said none on my folks from that time could write, some say the tradition continues in my family For sure though it would have been more of a recognizable 'country' accent, minus the Celtic infusion that exploded post 1840.

The Birkenhead accent seems to have changed very much, during my lifetime. It's almost beyond understanding now. Don't get me wrong, I'm no snob. Born in '45 off Conway Street, but nobody was trying to 'out scouse' each other in those days. Now it appears that lots of people go out of their way to try to speak as commonly as they can. I wonder if, maybe, the fact that English language is not being taught in the same way is to blame. Also, swearing is commonplace these days. Years ago it was unheard of to swear in front of a woman, but now the ladies are quite capable of many a mouthful, and in public too.

Would have thought there would be a hint of Welsh in our dialect from way back?

Language is changing all the time, just listen to the way the youngsters speak these days. innit!

When i used to visit the Scottish isles in times gone by the locals used to think i was from Wales even though i lived on the Wirral !.

Right owden yo goin thwom ?.

My father used to use some of the strange Neston Phrases when i was a kid but by the time he passed away he had stopped using them when he spoke to people !.

I can also recall him saying that when he went to school in the 1930's even he had trouble understanding the accent of some of the kid's who grew up in the marshland's road area where the mine's had been !

Don't forget, as well as the thousands who flocked to Wirral during and after the industrial revolution, all the slang words coming ashore from the sailors and dockers. My grandad used to say "up the dancers" = up the stairs which is 1920's - 30's American gangster slang.

hahaha awesome :)))

My Grandad was a proper "FirBob" (Higher Bebongton) and, in greeting, would often say "Ow a go?" (whatever that meant!).

My mother and father used to say that as well. Think the Neston thing is partially a result of incoming mine workers. Does have a darkest Lancashire type ring to some of it.

Wierd eh? Mind you sometimes I wonder if that now ancient term 'Ta-rarr' may have been intoduced to the Wirral by our Welsh friends,has that sing-song tone to it. Maybe that's what the Islanders were picking up on?

Gives you a real sense of how diverse the accents/dialects may have been across Wirral...am I right too in recalling in Neston area they used the term 'Babee'?

Never heard that one before 'Firebob' nor the greeting. How long back is that then?

Yes that was another one, there where hundreds of strange ways of saying things.

Cold was "cowed" with emphsis on the "W".

In most cases you can see where the words come from, but there where some that where very corrupted from the original word, some of the worst ones where place names although i can only think of one at the moment which is for Heswall which was "Yawla" !

I suppose none of these where written, so there is no correct spelling for them !.

Folk from Cornwall moved up this neck of the woods to work in the Neston mines and some settled down` up here,Anyone heard of "Mother redcap" ship wreckers or "Wreckers" as they were known,
"God bless feyther and God bless mather and God send us a wreck afore morning"
Old Wallasey Prayer, Its a good read ...... http://www.wirralhistory.net/wreckers.html

Ghosts, I think, were often refered to as buggons or beggens.
If I recall there is a Buggen Lane in Neston

...I've certainly heard 'cowed' used before. And if you felt cold more than most you were 'Nesh'!

My old man used to come out with some weird & wonderful expressions like saying someone had a 'face like Annie the Gogger'!!!

...haven't got the foggiest what that one was about!

Don't mix up Mother Redcap with Wallasey wreckers. She allegedly looked after cash for sailors, helped smugglers and kept ordinary sailors out of the hands of the press gangs. She owned an inn on the shore between New Brighton and Egremont. Wreckers were those who allegedly lit false beacons to lure ships onto the shore, plunder the cargo and in some cases murder the crews. Wallasey village was supposed to be the centre of wrecking and goods "recovered" were allegedly transported across Bidston Moss to Bidston village and then onwards.

The wreckers prayer you quote is supposed to have been said by the vicar or various vicars in St Hilary's church.

Cowed for cold is very Yorkshire(ish). I married into it and they still say it like that in certain places.

Great to read your post and the amazing glimpses into Wirral's lost accents/dialects..the manner of saying 'cold' brought to mind say a Black County accent. We certainly are unearthing a treasure trove of Wirral's gems here

ahh cowed as in Yorkshire, good shout, my first reaction was to think of the Black Country.

Oh 'nesh'!

Neston sure seems to have had a distinct dialect and accent, would love to learn more about the mining connection mentioned with possible incomers from Lancashire and Cornwall

Not sure if this is off topic but,my Dad used to say anyone who had 'tatty'hair,looked like 'the wild woman of Borneo'.
Does anyone know the origin of this?

When I first left home in the 50's I was often thought of as being from Birmingham. I suppose people unused to other dialects would be confused by them sounding similar to them. Once the 60's came along and the Liverpool accent was more publicised the "Brummy" thing seemed to peter out.
The "Wild Man from Borneo" was a phrase often used, and all over the country from what I can remember. Suspect it was probably something from an early film showing the Borneans as being woolly haired savages.

Hahaha sure remeber 'tatty head' from potato by any chance???

Not that long ago Anthony Annakin-Smith helped set up an exhibition about the Neston coal mining community. Think they had it on at the local library. Anyhow, he's written quite a lot about the subject in the 'Wirral Journal' if you're interested.

Also seem to think there's quite a bit of info on it here on Wiki. Check the index, Erainn! Stop getting us to do all the work for you!!


...that's now a pint, crisps, peanuts, & pork scratchings you owe us.

Think you have hit the spot on the Borneo reference.

My mum was always saying "wild woman from Borneo". " Ta rarr" is only a lazy "tataa" but it was always "ta rarr well" and don't we still use "nesh" ? I know I do.

hahaha..'us' is it?

...you can give the pickled egg to bert!

In 'The Gentleman’s Magazine' dated December 1762 there is an interesting article on Bromborough. Part of it goes:

“The people are a hardy race, and live upon the coarsest fare, as the inhabitants of these parts chiefly do. I have formerly observed a particular custom of changing the letter q into a w at the beginning of words; thus they pronounce the word quick as if it were spelt wick; they also pronounce the words that end with ll as if they were spelt with au.”

Well would not wish to deprive you of such a delicacy, particularly after all your fevered activity

Golden info, thanks so much for sharing that

Googled The Wild Woman.
It is written as 'women'so there was more of them!
It would appear from an American Movie and certainly not deshevilled,she is seen on a poster whipping her top off!

...you just know there'll now be a surge of fellas from Wikiland Googling that web-site...

me included...

Yep! Took a quick butcher's and sure enough, Bezzymate is right.

No wonder them women were wild though. I mean, the poster I just saw showed them standing on a fire!

'Wild'? Livid, I'd say!!!

Brace yourselves boys!!!!It's not for the faint hearted.

He's been dead about 20-odd years and was in his 70's.