Does anybody know anything about an underground stream that runs along Station Road, under Wallasey Road, Kingsway and Malpas Road ending in Captains Pit?

I dont know anything about an underground stream, but it sounds perfectly plausable to me. Ther are caves stretching from new brighton front, all the way to st hilarys brow. The smugglers used to use the cave, for smuggling the goods of ships, years and years ago. Ther is an entrance to the caves, in somebodys back garden in new brighton. I remember one year when the wirral show was on, my mother and myself went down and had a look around, ther was lots of small holes that you couldnt fit a human down, but pot holers would have loved it. the underground chambers stretched for miles.

sarah xx

The only thing I can contribute to this is that my grandad who would of been over 100 years of age now, stated that the houses in Kingsway where built on a "pond" as he called it.

Kingsway used to be a lane that led up to the old Weatherhead school, which was a house at the time and captains pit was their garden. This is only hearsay, but I just thought I would let you know incase anyone else can back it up.

Kitty x

There are actually numerous streams under Wallasey. They use to "feed" the wells ie Mill Lane and the old Pumping Station off Seaview Road. The Captain's Pit is an ornamental pond so has no water feeding into it (it would flood or drain otherwise!)

...and welcome Kitty to wiki.

Sorry Sarah but has no basis in truth. Yes there are caves there but to say they stretch to St Hilary's is not proven. Think you are mixing up the stories about the caves and the fact that Wallasey smugglers were supposed to have strong links with St Hilary's. They probably did but there is no proof of any caves stretching that far. In fact, the caves in Wellington road go towards the sea if my memory serves.

Re the stream, surely that would be going up hill if they came out at captains pit? Any river (stream) worth its salt (no pun) usually goes towards the sea. There is underground water around that area because Wallasey used to take a lot of its drinking water from wells below where ASDA is now before it became contaminated by diesel oil. Used to be so pure that you could put it in car batteries without worrying.

I LOVE the smugglers/tunnels/ pirateeing aspect of our History. Its difficult to know, for sure, what is fact, fiction, legend, myth though.
i was fascinated reading about a description of Mother Redcaps. It reminded me of the film The Goonies!!

When i went down into the cave, ther were many smaller paths, caves, pot holes call them what you will, and the tour guide, told me about them going as far as st hilarys brow, this was many years ago when i was a teenager, and im 42 now, so im sorry but i think your mistaken here, and have you actually been into the caves yourself ?

also the stream, whilst i agree with your analysis that given the route the op gave for the proported stream i would agree that it would be running up hill which streams do not. having said that, there is an old well under the water tower in liscard, so going far under ground ther is plenty of water underneath wallasey, and who,s to say that once you get deep underground that the path the water runs isnt in fact straight ?

Hello? Is this on? One, two...one, two! There are streams UNDER Wallasey. There are streams that run from Wallasey Village to Poulton. There are streams to the North of Liscard. There are streams in Upper Brighton running to Liscard and across to Belvidere Road. Why are there streams in this particular area? The answer is sandstone! Rain seeps through and causes underground streams. They still flow! Many empty into drainage pipes.

There is no streams under Seacombe or Egremont because the land here is clay. By the way, rain corodes sandstone. Our 'children' of the future will see parts of Wallasey fall into huges holes! Say farewell to The Breck!!

THANK GOD I LIVE IN EGREMONT, MY HOME ISNT LIKELY TO FALL FROM UNDERNEATH ME LOL.

Ther is lots of sandstone in wallasey, i distincly remember standing by the yellowy colour sandstone wall that runs just passed the pub in wallasey village, and curves round to the begining of wallasey road, and being told as a child that the cave tunneling came that far in from the sea front.ther may not be any evidence of this, but i shall check with my nan who is 91 tommorow she is a wallasyian born and bred, used to live in moreton grove wallasey village, and then pool road wallasey, were she was bombed out in the war, now she lives in leasowe. The best sorce of information, are the original people from an area.

sarah xx

Think the tour guide was pulling your leg. Yes I have been down them and also have internal photographs and plans. The entrance is in a house in Wellington road. I'm 60 and New Brighton born and bred but can't see what that has to do with anything. Next we will get the old chestnut about them being linked to Mother Redcaps.

Would love someone to tell me where the entrance/exit at the St Hilary's end might be? Suppose it has been kept secret all these years. Nah, someone on Wikkiwirral would have investigated and soon found that one out. Not much you can keep from these guys and girls thankfully.

Upper Brighton is characterised by the sandstaone walls that were dug out from the quarries at Upper Brighton and Rake Lane so you can see physically what parts Wallasey is built on. Wallasey Village is all built on sandstone. In fact. Wallasey Village was built into the sandstone before changes to its layout were made.

I am talking about streams which naturally run through sandstone. As for caves - there is evidence that caves run from the river front (near the Red Noses and Mother Redcaps). Beyond that it is speculation.

Happy Birthday Sarahs nan x wow 91 years young. These are the people that us 'young ones' should ask about Local History.

I pledge that we all quiz our parents, grand-parents, Great grand-parents, as a wiki community. Too much 'personalised' info is Lost because 'we' dont listen.
Guilty of this myself my grandad is 90 and i havent saw him since xmas 09

I fully agree Rudey. I have asked numerous times for people to send me their "Recollections" of Wallasey's past. They will be posted on my site. Example of that is here :-

https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums...1/Wallasey_Recollections.html#Post443101

No takers. Real memories will be lost.

Just read that piece Paul, brilliant!

I also just read the piece and thoroughly enjoyed it. What an amazing lady. Pity it's only Wallasey you want memories of as I have many memories of Bromborough in the 40's and 50's and early 6o's.

Hi Ruth, please put a piece together and I will do a "special" recollection on the site. Now and then I go "outside" Wallasey to bring a wider story. Good luck and I hope to read it soon. In fact that offer is for everyone because people from Wallasey don't seem too interested. Let's put your memories down and I will publish it on my site.

Hi guys, saddly i didnt get to speake to my nan today, she was out when i called, so left her card and prezzy, but next time i see her, i will take a pen and paper, and quizz her on any little tit bits of local knowledge and information. she does tell me little gems sometimes. ive never really been into history, but our local history is quite intresting, and im quite hooked on this thread now, so please await with baited breath for my next thrilling installment

sarah xx

Rude, get there and see him. I bet he's a fountain of knowledge. If he's from Seacombe,ask about that dam Dale Inn!

Ah good old Mother Redcaps you can walk underground from there to anywhere in the country honest .. my Nan told me and she was OLD.. Sorry, I shouldn't mock but most of what was said about Mother Redcaps was Urban Myth, although the back store of the building ran into a partial slope, when the place was demolished and again when the nursing home that replaced it was built, no sign of the supposed caves running from there was ever found. The seaward entrance to the cave in the garden in Wellington road can actually be seen in the wall of rock on the pitch and put on the prom below this house's garden (it's bricked up and looks a bit like a door). The cave runs on beneath the house but is blocked with sand after a wartime bomb exploded directly above it in 1940/1 ish so nobody is sure where it goes BUT it could just stop on the other side of the road (I would suspect it does because it would surly have been mentioned by other if it continued on much beyond, it's like was said above SOMEONE would have told and the urban team would have well got wind of it).

Totally agree Ian. I remember asking my Dad about the caves - apparently there are loads of them in both the Red and Yellow Noses, which is what you'd expect in sandstone cliffs eroded by the sea. You can just about see some of the entrances if you're looking for them, though most have been covered by the prom infill.

He lived in Wallasey Village and he and his mates used to play in them in the 1910s (this was obviously before they were bricked up, the prom was built and stray WW2 bombs had fallen on them!). He said that most were very small but there were two which went inland a fair way and needed candles and a bit of bravery to explore. One of these was the Wormhole, which is the one with an entrance in Rock Villa's garden. I went with him on one of the days when the cave was opened to the public (probably in the 1960s)and he remembered it well. The 'tour guide' - from memory a Boy Scout - came out with all the spiel about tunnels going to Mother Redcap's, St. Hilary's Church and even Bidston Hill! Dad told him that he'd never come across any tunnels in his explorations which were big enough for a young lad to crawl through, never mind a big hairy smuggler! and he'd never heard those tales when he was a lad.

I went down the cave myself on another open day some years later and the guide came out with exactly the same stories. I suspect it was a standard script full of romanticised 'what might have been' stories to make it more interesting for the visitors (the cave is actually pretty boring!). I tend to believe what my Dad told me because he made no attempt to embellish it with oulandish tales.

It seems to me that one of the problems with local history is differentiating between fact and folk lore. Unfortunately there are a couple of books on the Wallasey tunnels which seem to ignore the difference and mix fact and fiction with conspiracy theories. Did you know, for example, that when the nursing home was being built on the Mother Redcap's site, the contractors discovered a huge pit with tunnels leading off it? Knowing that if it was reported the place would be swarming with archaologists and delay the build, the contractors opted to fill it in and keep quiet. Once in writing, this 'faction' becomes fact to a lot of people who will later quote it - 'it must be true because I read it in a book'.

Sorry for the rambling and ranting!

Think the tour guide was pulling your leg. Yes I have been down them and also have internal photographs and plans. The entrance is in a house in Wellington road. I'm 60 and New Brighton born and bred but can't see what that has to do with anything. Next we will get the old chestnut about them being linked to Mother Redcaps.

Would love someone to tell me where the entrance/exit at the St Hilary's end might be? Suppose it has been kept secret all these years. Nah, someone on Wikkiwirral would have investigated and soon found that one out. Not much you can keep from these guys and girls thankfully. [/quote]

well thank you for dismissing my memories and local knowledge of wallasey, whats this because im new i can,t possibly have anything new to add that the guys and girls on here havent dug up already. what a lousy attitude you have

Dont mock me then, if you dont realise that the older generation have far more knowledge about their surroundings then younger people then you are the fool, shall i mock you.

My mum is 93 next month - and is bright, alert and has a very good memory of Wallasey Village, having lived there all her life. She was born in Granville Terrace (now Wirral Villas site)that was at the end of Green Lane.

Perhaps what we should (somehow) arrange is for all the elderly nans and mums and aunts to meet together for an afternoon natter - with someone like PaulWirral there to attempt to orchestrate the conversation direction. I am sure we could nag a pub or the like into providing the facilities.

Snod

wow what a lovely idea, im sure my nan would like that, she is very alert and active, im sure she would love it. what do you think paul.

sarah xx

Great idea

Yes indeed! Hope you do get this organized, what a terrific idea!

Maybe, some of our mature members could go too to break the ice and initiatate topics?

id love to go, if nothing else just to listen to the old,s storys.

sarah xx

Sounds like a good idea. How old is mature ???

I remember Granville Terrace very well. Susan Walker, Dave Walker, Maureen Huckson etc.

With respect Sarah I don't dismiss you at all BUT these myths keep re-surfacing, your Nan is only repeating things she was told in her younger days. Some of these things can be traced to a single source (a book or a historical paper etc) but often are just the things of folk-law. I have searched (in vain) for years to find ACTUAL physical deviance of these caves (sorry the tunnels, small caves do exist) and keep returning to the same sources of information, time and time again.... Just like the folks who will tell you that at one time a squirrel would have been able to move from Rock Ferry to Hilbury without touching the ground ... as most of the wirral's TRUE forests were cleared in pre-historic times, this story is based on two things ...1) the fact that there was a "Royal Forest" on the Wirral .... a royal forest is actually a hunting ground and doesn't have that many trees in it (although maybe a few woods and spinneys) ...2 A fancy poem stating the fact that starts something like "From Rock Ferry to Hibury, a Squirrel can jump from tree to tree".

My comments about walking all over the country in these caves and it being true because my Nan told me were .. I agree .. a little flippant but it was an attempt to "Lighten" the subject a little.

I am in FULL agreement that we MUST get the memories from older folks before they aren't there to ask any more .... all I ask is that when you get the information BE careful as to what is folk-law being passed down the generations and what is actual fact of something that happened to that person.

As I say, I am sorry if I offended you in any way, I will be less flippant in the future.

Mature? Anything with a pulse and an ability to listen & contribute sensibly. Mature refers to the mind and attitude rather than to age

Granville Terrace - I "tested" mum the other day. She can more or less recite who lived in which house at the time of her teens and later ie 1930-40 I guess. OK, like most elderly people the next time she tells me some details have changed - this can be genuine as memories return and is why I think a get-together of the older folk would be beneficial.

From our family the name from there is Ledsham - with associations to Hughes and Landsborough, and maybe Upton/ Upshon although the latter were the folk who lived in the cottage that is now 40 Grove Road.

Snod