Bebington to Speke tunnel - Wirral-Wikiwirral

Hi, I recently read that there is a fourth tunnel under the Mersey linking Wirral (Bebington, Rock Ferry or New Ferry) and Liverpool.

Quote

For 300 years, until the Reformation, much of what was then South Lancashire was owned by the Cistercian monks from Whalley Abbey near Clitheroe, and Stanlawe Abbey in what was then Cheshire, on the Wirral Peninsular. There are local legends that the monks once built a tunnel from Speke, under the River Mersey to Bebington on the Wirral, and these may indeed have some basis in fact. The Wirral, like Liverpool, is also riddled with underground passageways and caves, many of these are natural, but many are also man-made.

link here

Does anyone know whether this is true or just local legend?

I dont think they had the technology or understanding to build a tunnel under the Mersey at that distance mate. Think that ones deffo up there with the Lock Ness Monster

That's what I thought to be honest, too good be true...

I mean if there was a way for us to avoid tunnel/ferry/train fare, we'd all know about it!

ha ha yeah that would save me a fortune !

Whether there are tunnels there or not it can not be dismissed on the lack of technology or know how. The Romans, Babylonians, Greeks and Egyptians built tunnels at a much earlier date.

BlueLue whats so strange is without using that link you gave I ended up on that site,if you scroll further down it tells you why it's called Speke

It was once called "Spic" Meaning Bacon because there where swine fields EVERYWHERE!

"There's the secret Mersey Tunnel, used by the monks of Birkenhead Priory in the days of King Henry VIII [21 April 1509 – 28 January 1547], which runs from Speke to a location beneath Rock Ferry." - Tom Slemen http://www.slemen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16031

Tom Slemen - hmmm, writes good stories...

Could the monks build a pumping station on the scale of the grasshopper at Shore Road?

Would the monks know where the bedrock was to tunnel through? Probing through 30ft of mud/sand from a rowing boat sounds fun.

Would the monks have the skill and accuracy to tunnel in the direction they wanted to go?

Did the monks have explosives or power tools? (the explosives is a genuine question - how did they quarry in those days?)

Slemen needs shootin'!

I always make my self look "Dupid" on here, so yes you know what Im goin' to say. Who's Tom Slemen?

Good to ask mate, its better to ask and know than remain ignorant.

He makes money by writing books about haunted stuff which he backs up with HIS historic facts, some of his historic claims are questioned by others.

http://www.slemen.com/

Soon as I seen the "Haunted Stuff" I thaught HAUNTED LIVERPOOL
So I clicked the link and Yay me I was right... For Once

no i think not sorry

good if there was

Originally Posted by bert1

Whether there are tunnels there or not it can not be dismissed on the lack of technology or know how. The Romans, Babylonians, Greeks and Egyptians built tunnels at a much earlier date.

The Romans and other civilisations did build tunnels and some of them fairly complicated but im sorry there is no possible way that a group of monks had the technology or know how to build UNDER the mersey in those times here in Wirral.

Also you would have to ask yourself why ? In the 1500 Wirral was still fairly desolate and heavily forrested. One quote says that a squirrel could jump from tree to tree all the way from one end of the peninsula to the other. Why would the monks needs to build a secret passage over to liverpool. Im fairly sure that most people could travel off the track without being seen if they wanted in those days.

Also who would pay for this this enormous civil engineering feat ? and how would a project of that scale be kept secret.

Our survey says " X "

Originally Posted by Doctor_Frick

Originally Posted by bert1

Whether there are tunnels there or not it can not be dismissed on the lack of technology or know how. The Romans, Babylonians, Greeks and Egyptians built tunnels at a much earlier date.

The Romans and other civilisations did build tunnels and some of them fairly complicated but im sorry there is no possible way that a group of monks had the technology or know how to build UNDER the mersey in those times here in Wirral.

Also you would have to ask yourself why ? In the 1500 Wirral was still fairly desolate and heavily forrested. One quote says that a squirrel could jump from tree to tree all the way from one end of the peninsula to the other. Why would the monks needs to build a secret passage over to liverpool. Im fairly sure that most people could travel off the track without being seen if they wanted in those days.

Also who would pay for this this enormous civil engineering feat ? and how would a project of that scale be kept secret.

Our survey says " X "

I tend to agree with you why would a group of monks want a tunnel to Liverpool, and that would be the reason i don't think they exist, but i still believe it would be possible to build such a tunnel if so desired at that period of time. The Romans and other civilisations done it way before the period were talking about. Lets not forget mining was going on in Britain before that time, way back BC and gunpowder was in production in the mid 13th century, so the tools and know how were available.

"The Thames Tunnel is an underwater tunnel, built beneath the River Thames in London, United Kingdom connecting Rotherhithe and Wapping. It measures 35 feet (11 m) wide by 20 feet (6 m) high and is 1,300 feet (396 m) long, running at a depth of 75 feet (23 m) below the river's surface (measured at high tide). It was the first tunnel known successfully to have been constructed underneath a navigable river[1], and was built between 1825 and 1843 using Marc Isambard Brunel's newly invented tunnelling shield technology, by him and his son Isambard Kingdom Brunel." Link

If Brunel struggled with it, I really dont think a group of 16th century monks would have tried. But its interesting to debate it.

If the monks did manage to build a tunnel i can't imagine it to be as grand as the Thames Tunnel or for any thing like the same usage, but more like the Roman aqueduct tunnel that stretched 66 mile to take water to Syria, which took 100 years to complete. There we have the question when is a tunnel not a tunnel.

Yep thats true, but also your talking about the technology of one of the greatest civilisations ever and their army, resources and workforce.

Not a small group of monks from Wirral with daft haircuts
:o)

Originally Posted by Doctor_Frick

Yep thats true, but also your talking about the technology of one of the greatest civilisations ever and their army, resources and workforce.

Not a small group of monks from Wirral with daft haircuts
:o)

Good Grief Sir, Remember their British

No No No No No NO !!

In 1500 they were not British they were 'English' :o)

Originally Posted by Doctor_Frick

No No No No No NO !!

In 1500 they were not British they were 'English' :o)

Quite right, slap my own wrist.

I don't think the monks could shore up, or divert the River Mersey - nobody before the C19th had successfully tunneled under a river anywhere near this sort of distance.

As I stated earlier, they wouldn't be able to provide a pumping solution to keep the tunnel clear of water.

when is a tunnel not a tunnel.WHEN ITS A MOLE HOLE

maybe there could be a forgotin tunnal from speke hall to bebington, long forgotin and blocked off that goes under the mersey to rock ferry by the old shore which could be connected to the other tunnals like the monks tunnals but if there part of the railway then that rules that out. who knows its possable id say, i every much think that it wouldnt be there any more with the stress of the mersey water over it and the planes landing in speke but maybe there was once a tunnal...?