368 Duke of Westminster 37 Watson Street - 167/9 Price Street

On doing my family tree I've discovered that my grandmother was a servant at the above address.
The head of house was an Isabella Foulkes described as a licenced victualler.
Was this a pub??

Westminster Hotel,

1916 directory,

no this was a butchers shop...

.

well done bert good research... victualler is a butcher so perhaps thats what she was

The Westminster pub was on the corner of Price st and Watson St until the mid sixties,

Bennie

Not sure when victualler became a butcher but never mind. Think that was just a catch all name for food supplier. i.e. Licensed victualler was a booze seller.
I can't see 167/9 on Berts directory or am I missing something?

Helles,
The Westminster Hotel was listed as 165, I assume it was big enough to take up plots 167 and 169.

well helles, you have enlightend me that makes sense then a licensed victualler sells booze in the hotel. always learning...

1911 directory..

Well done NW,

Its not the first mistake made in the 1916 directory I've come across, on saying that I wonder if by 1916 the hotel had acquired part of the drapers?

Both the street directories appear to be wrog.
I've also cocked up by calling it the Prince AlBERT which would have been at number 157 on this 1950's map.
I,ve got the Westminster down as Duke of Westminster from 1881 licence register

Anyone know what the club was just by it number 161?

I'm not sure the 1911 directory is wrong, below, the 1911 census and 1921 phone book.

On the 1950s map Watson Street is between numbers 167 and 169
Possibly building numbers may have been re-numbered as some were demolished and others built between your dates and the 1950s

I worked at the Westmister Hotel when my uncle Joseph Patrick Lynch was the landlord in the late 1950s. It was definitely # 167-169 with a wider frontage on Price Street compared with Watson Street, although the private entrance for the accommodation upstairs was in Watson Street. It was a three storey building with the top floor given over to a number of small rooms all interconnecting without a corridor. rather odd. I was told by old timers that some locals refused to drink in the Westminster as it had accommodated the Birmingham Police during the national police strike years ago.

Does anyone have a photograph? Wirral Archives in Canning Street doesn't. I've been there, done that. DerekDWC's map of c1950s looks right as there was a back room leading from the bar and on a higher level if my memory is correct. Perhaps this area had been added on at some time as it doesn't appear on earlier maps.

Wasn't Joe Lynch the boss of the Caledonia in Market St.? His wife was Mabel and they had the biggest Alsation I've ever seen. But I think this was the 60's.

Yes this is the same Joe Lynch. He moved from the Westminster to the Caledonia in Market Street. Both Birkenhead Brewery houses. His alsation was a big softie really, named Shane, but he looked the part. Once I saw a mass brawl outside the pub in Market Street after closing and Shane was sent out to break up the fighters and someone took a kick at him and the dog ran inside pretty quick. Those brawls were something to see with steel toe capped boots ringing against skulls. Never forget the sound.

I saw the Caledonia on a visit to Birkenhead recently and it was looking very sad. I'll put a photo up if I can figure out how to do it.

Despite its Scottish name, it was a very Irish pub and we all had to be still and quiet when the Irish national anthem was sung, and the anthem wasn't 'Danny Boy'. They used to sing another nice tune that I remember called 'The Boys from the County Armagh'. I quite liked that one.

rechecked about it being the Prince Albert once.

with Watson Street being mentioned I think it was the same place
Possibly building numbers may have been re-numbered as some were demolished and others built between your dates and the 1950s

In 1st pic I see we had
Prince Charles
Prince John
and for those in the know Prince Mary a friend of Cynthia? (private joke)

You definitely seem to be right about the Westminster having a previous life as the Price Albert.Corner of Watson and Price could only have had one pub there not two. There was a pub on the opposite corner called The British Queen which I take to refer to Queen Victoria, so a Prince Albert facing her is most appropriate.
It is interesting that the street number varies by 10 places, presumably 5 buildings, between the Prince Albert and the Westminster days. I can't imagine though that the whole of Price Street had to be renumbered. It was a long street. Perhaps new development had happened quite locally. If possible can you put up the list of Willoughbys on the 1857 PO directory. Thanks

Downloadable street directories are click here
and
click here

On the 1st link when you open a directory click to view pdf, then save it

Thanks for that. I did know about Historical Directories but not the other link. In Morris' Directory of Birkenhead 1874, did you see Charles Joughin of "Westminster" spirit vaults, 155 Price Street? I'm sure that this must be an error for '157' as 155 was a drapery shop in other directories. This Morris's directory also has a list of all the public houses in central Birkenhead which makes for interesting reading. The Joughins had three of them.

This Charles Joughin is a link between the Westminster and the famous Titanic disaster. Charles had a son, also called Charles, born in Patten Street in 1878, Birkenhead, who worked for a while at the Westminster. This Charles later became the head baker on the White Star liner 'Olympic' and moved with Captain Smith to the 'Titanic' for it's maiden voyage. When the ship was sinking, he was in charge of lifeboat 10 but after hunting for ladies to put in it, he didn't get in himself. He went below to his cabin and had a large drink. He then went back on deck and the stern by then was getting higher out of the water. He climbed up to the very top, and clung to the outside of the ship by the rails and when the great ship gently slid underneath the ocean he simply let go and floated off. He was the last person to leave the Titanic. Not bad for a Birkenhead boy! He was wearing a lifejacket and the sea was like a millpond so only his bottom half was in the cold water. When daylight came, he spotted upturned lifeboat collapsible B and clung to that before eventually being taken aboard another lifeboat and picked up by the 'Carpathia'. He gave evidence to Lord Mersey at the official enquiry and this is how his story came to be recorded. His evidence can be read on: http://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq/BOTInq06Joughin01.php
It makes for a fascinating read.

derekdwc When I told my son in England that you were collecting Birkenhead pub photos he put this link onto an email to me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/sets/72157630001787152/with/7316159950/

It is a collection of Liverpool pubs in the main but had some Birkenhead pubs in the collection. The photos are of this year so not old ones. You may have already seen them of course.