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Posted By: cools Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 7:42am
Does anyone else get annoyed when military actions are made public. I think it should be done quietly and covert as it used to be. All this complaining now about the drone killing two IS members who were planning to bomb and kill on the streets on London. Use any means possible in my opinion we don't need to know everything, pussyfooting about is not working..
Posted By: Dilly Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 7:52am
I quite agree Cools, any method at all as they don't give a shit who or how they kill. Why Cameron is being questioned over the decision is beyond me,maybe we should just let the terrorist ... rule the world .
Posted By: granny Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 8:45am
He announced it in Parliament yesterday, and needless to say Harriet Harman and others had to make a meal of it and use it as another brownie point scoring exercise.
He had to tell them but it is other departments that will not release every snippet of information publicly.

Not only that, they were all still on holiday anyway!

Cameron gave as much information as he possibly could and as he said, had there been a tragedy here he would have got the blame for not stopping that happening too, and he wasn't prepared to take a chance on such an atrocity.
Posted By: casper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 8:56am
I am annoyed at the news headline isis fighters killed by RAF drone, why must they give this ... credibility, it should have read isis terrorists, to suggest they are fighters is outrageous it gives them some moral right as if they are defending something instead of trying to impose their odious religion on everyone, again we are bending over backwards, the families demanding to know the details, its as simple as this the little terrorist shits were somewhere they shouldn't have been, no doubt there will be banners out decrying what has been done, our forces being called murderers. mad
Posted By: Dilly Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 9:31am
Makes me wonder who will be first on here to defend the shite, I could hazard a guess.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 9:48am
We need to know exactly what our government is doing when they are acting as aggressors.

If Syria, Iraq or Afganistan had come across and performed attacks in Northern Island or The Falklands when we were having trouble I don't think we would have appreciated it.

We are leaving a trail of unfinished business, when that trail gets too long we will be obliterated. Don't forget the mess we have left behind in Africa!

We should be policing borders not whole countries, what right have we to turn civil wars into global conflicts.
Posted By: cools Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 11:01am
Yep , say no more Dilly....
Posted By: cools Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 11:10am
As far as I am concerned DD they need taking out before they get the chance to do anything. They are our enemy and their crime is already done by joining up with such evil , you know the risks so be it. No sympathy whatever for these two and I say strike harder..
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 12:52pm
Originally Posted by cools
As far as I am concerned DD they need taking out before they get the chance to do anything. They are our enemy and their crime is already done by joining up with such evil , you know the risks so be it. No sympathy whatever for these two and I say strike harder..


Pre-emptive strikes are exactly how everybody got in this mess.

Name the last attack by UK or America on any foreign soil that has had a successful outcome, we've gone bombing round the world and left a total mess - we have 100% proof that our strategy is completely wrong - but hey, lets carry on doing it anyway.

Short of using a large number of nukes you can't eradicate a country. The only solution is money and wasting money on weaponry isn't helping to create the funds that are necessary to bring about peace.
Posted By: philmch Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 1:53pm
A job well done imo. If only we'd had them in the days when we were fighting the neo-fascist IRA. We could possibly have prevented human rights abuse such as this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34183733
Posted By: casper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 2:00pm
Lets just leave them alone then eh DD, lets do nothing, lets fawn and throw money at the problem let them see we have no arse and will allow them to do as they please throw a few more mosques up and send the kids to school in their dads shirt and then we will all be integrated, plenty of breaks at work to get our little mats out, chain the wives to the sink job done welcome isis
Posted By: Salmon Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 2:08pm
Originally Posted by philmch
A job well done imo. If only we'd had them in the days when we were fighting the neo-fascist IRA. We could possibly have prevented human rights abuse such as this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34183733


Off topic but do you know that during "the troubles" of the 1960s that Most of those killed in the Troubles were civilian, over 2000 in total. Of those the majority, some 1270, were Catholic. Almost 730 Protestant civilians died.
In all, over 300 full and part-time police officers as well as just over 200 members of the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) were killed. Many were targeted while off duty, killed going about their routine because of their uniform but not wearing it. Protestants made up the vast majority of local security force ranks and, therefore, their dead. Fewer than 40 of the RUC officers, reservists and UDR members killed were Catholic. Just over 500 members of the regular Army were killed.
Some 400 republican paramilitaries died, most of them members of the IRA, and almost 170 loyalist paramilitaries. A significant number of paramilitaries were killed by their own organisations as alleged informers, in premature explosions and by rival groups during feuds.
The violence was not confined to the paramilitary groups alone. The security forces were responsible for 367 deaths. The facts surrounding many of these killings are still disputed, and allegations of security force collusion with loyalists have led to persistent demands for investigation. The vast majority of these demands come from the nationalist and republican communities. Of almost 200 civilians killed by the security forces, all but 23 were Catholic. Of more than 150 paramilitaries killed by the security forces, fewer than 20 were loyalist.
Posted By: Capt_America Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 3:19pm
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


If Syria, Iraq or Afganistan had come across and performed attacks in Northern Island or The Falklands when we were having trouble I don't think we would have appreciated it.


Perhaps this isn’t the best analogy DD, The IRA got weapons and semtex from Libya and were supported in training and with cash from the Gaddafi regime.
Posted By: granny Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 5:04pm
Remembering a trip I did with my husband about 1976, incorporating Libya. We docked at Dublin on the way home and the ship was held upfor couple of days, due to searching . (looking for arms etc.)

The only thing the dog decided was of any interest, was dragging my knickers out of a draw! Total embarrassment. blush
Posted By: Dilly Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 5:11pm
Originally Posted by granny
Remembering a trip I did with my husband about 1976, incorporating Libya. We docked at Dublin on the way home and the ship was held upfor couple of days, due to searching . (looking for arms etc.)

The only thing the dog decided was of any interest, was dragging my knickers out of a draw! Total embarrassment. blush

Just be grateful you weren't wearing them at the time Granny smile
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 5:13pm
We were saddam haters.....yet he kept the lid on it all. It's a mess alright. But thumbs up to Cameron on this one!!!
Posted By: cools Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 5:27pm
Got to agree with you there Lolly about Saddam. If we had not interfered I wonder would it have been this bad? Yes he was a dictator along with the others but it wasn't our war and as you say he kept a lid on it. Too late for that now we've got to try and find a solution to this horrible situation..
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 5:33pm
We got him on war crimes....but it was isis he was killing. We Involved ourselves again, made a mistake, hung him...etc....., but hindsights a great thing.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 5:48pm
So would it be ok for Syrians/Iraqis to send a drone to the UK and kill people in the UK that were planning to join ISIS???
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 6:00pm
Originally Posted by casper
Lets just leave them alone then eh DD, lets do nothing, lets fawn and throw money at the problem let them see we have no arse and will allow them to do as they please throw a few more mosques up and send the kids to school in their dads shirt and then we will all be integrated, plenty of breaks at work to get our little mats out, chain the wives to the sink job done welcome isis


Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing surely?

How do you think that relative peace came about? it wasn't by throwing warheads at them, it was by throwing a relatively small amount of money in the right places.
Posted By: cools Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 6:09pm
The difference here DD is these were not planning to join the IS , they allready were fully affiliated members and willing to commit any atrocity they could on in the name of Islamic State. And as far as being British citizens as I heard today on the news , in my mind they lost that when they pledged allegiance to IS. Nero comes to mind ( twiddling his thumbs while Rome burns)...
Posted By: Martin1943 Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 7:30pm
It was the likes of Harperson with multiculturalism that made Luton and parts of Oxford and Rochdale what they are today. Integration would minimise radicalism.
If the use of drones to take out makes so called Isis warriors look up in fear then its all good to me.
Maybe it will reduce the progress of UK potential Isis lads, and lasses to Syria then that is good also.
Well done RAF
Posted By: casper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 7:34pm
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by casper
Lets just leave them alone then eh DD, lets do nothing, lets fawn and throw money at the problem let them see we have no arse and will allow them to do as they please throw a few more mosques up and send the kids to school in their dads shirt and then we will all be integrated, plenty of breaks at work to get our little mats out, chain the wives to the sink job done welcome isis


Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing surely?



How do you think that relative peace came about? it wasn't by throwing warheads at them, it was by throwing a relatively small amount of money in the right places.


So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.

General Sun Tzu, The art of war.

Turning the other cheek wont work with these people, they are fanatics, they don't negotiate, think Kamikaze, but instead of divine wind, read the breath of allah, all queuing up to get into the pants of the 17 virgins, are they going to be disappointed. frown
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 8:26pm
I'm still waiting for all the success stories of the John Wayne approach to stabilisation.

If you can show me one example of where it has succeeded on foreign soil with modern weaponry I would be amazed.

The list of failures is endless.

It doesn't work, it creates more deaths not less.
Posted By: granny Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 9:13pm
So far as failure is concerned, boat from Libya to Italy it looks as if they could have already arrived. (February)

He who hesitates is lost!


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...g-to-use-Libya-as-gateway-to-Europe.html
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 9:35pm
All "guns a blazin" DD.....its the only way!!! I know it, you know it and its exactly what they deserve.
Posted By: fish5133 Re: Drones in syria - 8th Sep 2015 11:53pm
Perhaps we should get involved in the Russia Ukraine conflict and help the Ukranians. Remember all the loud brave talk from Cameron aimed at Russia following the downing of the Malaysian plane. Political soundbites. Taking out a couple of wayward expat nutters with unmanned drones is just flexing your muscles.
Agree a little with DD in that the genie is out the bottle and in the long run it will achieve naff all.
Who was it who said "the world is now a safer place" Bush and Bliar.
Got no problem with any british muslim who wants to go and join ISIS-the more the merrier-they are better out of this country. Will give our drone controllers a bit more target practice. But it will have its repercussions.
Posted By: casper Re: Drones in syria - 9th Sep 2015 6:06am
Those wayward expat nutters had the potential to cause mayhem and bring death to the streets of our country, the season of peace on earth and goodwill to all will be upon us soon, a Christian festival, packed shopping centres, trains etc people loaded with parcels the ideal target to cause maximum casualties, so other than taking direct action, what is the solution? Send a letter to Mr isil asking him to please not do any thing
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