I think that we can assume that most folk in our society agree that Bin Laden and his ilk's belief that Paradise and the virgins etc. awaits them after death is all a bit far fetched. But our own, accepted, beliefs are not that far removed. It is quite common to hear “He/She is looking down on us” and every obituary column has a few ' Re-united with ….'.Where are He/She looking down from ? Are they leaning over a balcony ? How high up are they ? If they are dead how do their eyes work and how far can they see? If they are re-united with someone, who was that someone re-united with ? I expect that they are meant to be re-united with members of their family. But what if they never got on well when they were all alive ? What if there was abuse or cheating ? Surely the last thing they would want is a reunion. Lots of people believe in Heaven and I know that it provides some comfort to them so that's fine and I would never knock them. I just think that they're wrong.

You're brave sarting this topic "never talk about politics or religion" is the saying isn't it?

I'm a death is death believer, I don't believe in life after death other than the memories left in people that are still alive.

Honestly, I don't wish to offend anyone. It's just that the suicide bombers' beliefs take a bit of stick (and quite rightly so, IMO) but I think it might be a case of pots and black kettles.

A mate of mine 'died' for a few minutes in hospital not long ago but thankfully he was resuscitated.
I asked him if he remembered anything of the experience, angels, bright lights or whatever.
He told me he couldn't remember anything.
I reckoned it was because he'd gone 'downstairs'
He just told me to f*** off.
Nice to see him feeling better

Everyone has to believe in something. I believe i'll have another pint!

What they have got to remember is that the reason they are virgins is because they don't put out. Double whammy really. Not a believer in the after life myself but your molecules do eventually become part of something else because that's what physics and chemo says.

Interesting topic. I personally don't believe anything happens after death, I guess it must be a lot like before I was alive: nothing.

I'm a sceptic on this subject but I do belive that there has to be somthing that gose on after we all leave this life.

I don't believe in life after death either. Or any God for that matter. It's a bit like believing Lord of the Ring is true and Tolkien was some kind of prophet.
But how come people always say when a friend or relative dies that they'll be "looking down on us"? Why not "they'll be looking up at us"? I can think of a few of my family who would be going to a rather hot place when they pop their clogs....

You mean a Carribean Funeral??

hey sarah, im with you on that 1, me and the wife had a psycic round a few years ago, and i was sceptic, but when he came in and started, he said who is billy, thats my dads name, he went on about some1 called georgie, my great uncle, and he said they are singing a song i didnt know, so when i spoke to my aunty and she said, that was your uncle georgies favourtie song, something i didnt know myself, read into that what you want, we are thinking of getting him back soon

Getting who back, Uncle Georgie or the psychic? Just wondering.

I'd like to hope there is something after life here. However i remain sceptical... so i will live live to the full here incase there isn't!!

You hit the nail on the head there girl. You get one go at it so enjoy it. That's where these killjoy religions have scored an own goal - be miserable here because you are going to be happy in the hereafter, yeah right!

I totally believe there is an after life. Apparently, it's one big raving party & our time on this planet is just a dress rehearsal to see how big a party animal you are.

By the way my family knock it back, I presume they are aware of this as well.

Good point. Being the Webmaster of a very popular ghost site, this topic obviously features regularly in my forum discussions.

What I have always wondered about the Afterlife, if there is one, is just what do they do for entertainment "up there"? I mean, if there are no discos or theatres or restaurants, then it must be a pretty boring place!

I think life after death is the same as it was before you were born, you are unaware of anything, its just nothingness. You wouldn't know or feel anything. I think there is definitely lights and the feeling of euphoria, but I think its the brain shutting down. I think there's a built in part of the brain that works out your times up and helps it be a bit more of a relaxed affair. It can be triggered by mistake sometimes i.e "I seen my life flash before me." I would love to think there is heaven but I doubt it.

We have science nowadays to explain the things that in centuries gone by, people turned towards religion for. That's what religions purpose was, to help us understand where we came from and how we came to be. With modern science, religion is becoming less important as we use science to help us understand questions man has been asking for 1000s of years.

Totally agree.

If you put a hundred people in one small room and ask them to talk loudly all at once for a good half hour, then somehow in the blink of an eye they are all gone but you..you can still feel their lingering words all over you, crawl along your neck, its science and psyhiological and its what I believe to be our living ghosts. Our dead ghost, the entities so many claim to see are perhaps a mix of the above with a little exaggerated brain activity on our part haha! I`m not a skeptic by the way, I`ve been contacted by a regressor and parapsychologist before time (another story) but I simpy think its much more fundamental and safer sitting on the fence!

ii think the point is no body will know for definately what happens after death until they are gone and if it is nothing obviously you wont be any the wiser, so if you do believe inlife after death and it gives alot comfort while we are on this earth i dont see what the harm is as long as it isnt hurting any one else

Only just picked up on this thread.
Interestingly,although we are a Christian country, we all have different thoughts and opinions which is a good thing.

I have wondered for long enough why people who don't believe in an after life,under the most soul destroying and distressed times, of having a child close to death,in many cases they choose to have the child baptised.

In the case of a disaster, such as being on a near to sinking ship in the middle of an ocean, lost and without navigation. What would we do? In that situation, which I have experienced and at the time, many of us on board non- believers. We had nowhere to go and no one to help.In sheer desperation and fear, we all prayed as hard as we could. I still ask why.

Is it our deep seated beliefs or because we truly do believe in something more powerful than we can imagine when put to the test? If so, we must believe in an after life which I most definitely now do.

I don't believe in reincarnation. (but then, I didn't the LAST time I was here, either!!) :-)

Every one's a good one.

Personally, I don't believe in reincarnation. But then I didn't the LAST time I was here either!! :-) Anyway, if it was such a good place to go-why didn't Bin Laden blow himself up much earlier to inspire his troops?
PS. An anagram of "Osama Bin Laden" is "Lob Da Man In Sea!!"

You are a nutcase Filys. Are you like this ALL the time or just some of the time? You are like a breath of fresh air.

I agree with Kieran1981 he has hit the nail right on the head there couldn't of put it net better my self

Not really a believer myself and asked my sister who "died" for about 5 minutes many years ago if she'd seen anything, which she said she hadn't. Having said that though she was very drunk when this occurred so the booze could have clouded any visuals I suppose.
Anyway, what I wonder is, IF there is a life after death and we do meet up with our family, then if I die when I'm say 80 and go 'upstairs' if I meet my mother who died when she was 70 and my father who died at 72, then that will mean I'm older than my parents and maybe they won't recognise me and it'll be very confusing for us all because I'll be older than them...so that's what confuses me.
Also, if everything that's ever lived goes to heaven and has an afterlife, well it's going to be very crowded and will there be dinosaurs knocking around too ? It's too much for my brain to take in.

it's busy up there [youtube]Fj_inlzsDhQ[/youtube]

Tell you what. My mother died just 2 years ago aged 90yrs. She came back to me on I believe on 3 occassions. I am prepared to say that two of them could have been pure coincidence but one was a definite. Four months after she had died and it was the dog that first guided me to her.
I can't explain and wouldn't even attempt to.

Life after death is a combination of myth and wishful thinking. In the many thousands of years that mankind has wanted it to be true there has never once been a shred of evidence of its existence. Some of its most ardent believers have promised their loved ones proof when they die but have failed to do so. Like so many other things, associated with religion, it is a man-made belief that many cling on to.

How old are you? I don't think records like that were kept many thousands of years ago.Have you spoken to anyone who has had experiences? You should never dismiss the unexplainable and surely cannot make such rash statements, as it is only YOUR belief and others have their proof.

I don't know whether I believe in reincarnation but I do believe we go somewhere. I have had experiences and also met a medium (who didn't tell me they were one but I just knew and when he asked me if I knew what he was I told him and he confirmed it) who mentioned things in conversation which nobody could possibly have known, and this was the other end of the country so he knew neither me nor my dad, and he was so helpful and reassuring. I was told there would be a sign that a person was ok and I asked for a white feather, I got one a few days later that just materialised out of thin air in the kitchen (a tiny perfect one). I cannot explain it and neither can anybody else.

My age is not relevant. To what records do you refer? Yes, I have spoken to people who claim to have had 'experiences'. If it cannot be explained It should be, until then I will dismiss it. I have not made any rash statements, I have stated facts. This is not only my belief but that of any rationally thinking person. I would be very interested in seeing any proof.

When you make statements such as:-

'In the many thousands of years that mankind has wanted it to be true there has never once been a shred of evidence of its existence.'

Is that fact and how would you know?

Likewise, I could say there has never been any shred of evidence to say that the end is the end for all of us and there never will be.

What's more, you are not likely to ever have any proof when you yourself, don't have the experiences.
Maybe you could be a little more opened minded toward others, as many doctors, nurses, scientists, astronaughts to name a few high ranking professionals have had spiritual experiences and they are usually of sound mind. I personally, can listen and wonder, it is not for myself to say they are talking nonesense! The trouble is when some people do try to explain, they are often classed as psychiatric cases by those who don't believe. How sad is that? So others shut up and say nothing.

Granny, I am new to this forum and it is not my intention to fall out with anyone. I have no doubt that you believe what you saw and if it provides you with some comfort then that is good. But unless you can offer some substantial evidence that there is life after death I reserve the right to my opinion and remain totally unconvinced.

I'm with Bizzybee on this, sadly there are numerous people who make money out of people's hopes.

I don't think that after the thousands of years of humans on the planet and still not any grasp of real evidence otherwise that this warrants anyone to be open-minded about this any longer.

The human mind is easily mislead and also it has imagination, sometimes it is extremely difficult to separate reality from fantasy.

If people want to believe in Santa Claus or whatever to make themselves happy, that is their right and is the basis of most religions (other than money!).

Bizzybee I'm not falling out with you sweetie. What I am trying to say is that those who have experiences should not be judged. Mine was not a visual i.e in a form, they come in all shapes and sizes. That aside, we will not have any evidence or proof unless it applies to us as individuals and therefore it cannot be proven. You too are entitled to your thoughts and opinions and I am sorry if I have upset you. That wasn't the intention.
I hope you enjoy Wiki, there's lots going on and lots of fun. Big sorry for you from me.

You telling me Santa doesn't exist???? Nooooooooo.....


As I've said elsewhere on a similar thread, everything in our universe is comprised of energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Our memories and personalities may not necessarily survive physical death but the life force does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/4455

Cor blimey! you are good. May the Force be with you

I am really on the fence with this subject and it is something i do think about often as alot of close family of mine have died, it would be nice and comforting to think there is something afterwards. But then on the otherhand i think is it like before you were born, you wasnt there so dont exsist. Also me and my nan used to joke around all the time that she would haunt me when she has gone and now shes gone i havent had any "ghosty" things happen to me yet.......... we will never know till it happens to us!

I am absolutely certain that Albert Einstein is not suggesting that you can be visited by your great grandfather.

Granny, thanks for your reply. Yeah, lets be pals, whatever the differences of our opinions.

...that's not what I said.

My somewhat limited understanding of such things is that energy (or vibration) is a form of interaction or information exchange. You originally said that there was no evidence for life after death and that it was purely part of a belief system. However, science suggests that nothing is really destroyed it just changes. Your great great grandfather might not come visit you in person but every part of him still exists in some form today, and continues to interact with the universe.

Now that, geekus, I can find very feasible but, as I am sure you are aware, it is not most people's idea of life after death.

...quite right bizzybee, but if you accept the idea that energy cannot be destroyed or created it only changes, then (even by the laws of physics) such processes must take time.

Perhaps, some people who are more tuned-in or "sensitive" than others can still sense the energy of a life-force that is in the process of changing, and interpret such experiences as evidence of continued existence?

I agree with all you say Geekus, although there is the question of spiritual experiences, which in most cases, appear from nowhere, like a bolt of lightening. People relate these. One recent example was spoken about on the story of George Harrisons life, just pre-Christmas. His wife, whom I think is of sound mind, explained that at the moment of his death the whole room lit up. Actually lit up! That I have heard from aother persons experience who had no need to relate the event, but she was not dying or even ill,wasn't on drugs and is still very much alive. This was her experience, which was a tiny bit of it and not related to any life after death senario and if I said more, as mentioned earier, you would all think either she or myself as -----yes you guessed------psyciatric cases!

...we're all mad on here, granny. Didn't you know?

Looks like you're off to the moon again too.

Yes if you aren't mad to begin with,--- it doesn't take long to get there. Mad that is, not the moon.

Do you think this could be classed as any sort of proof rather than fantasy. Witnessed by hundreds of thousands of people and which continued 3 times weekly for over two years?
This is not something which has just come into the public domain,I had a book on it over twenty years ago.

http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmary9.htm
http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm

I had a book on this subject too. It was written by a ghost writer.

Thought you was going to say it was invisible!! lol

You don't get off that 'light'ly


Here is another make of it what you will.

This is from Assiut in Egypt in the year 2000 and is well documented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu7NJIvtD0Y&feature=endscreen&NR=1

I think David Copperfield was out in Assuit up to his tricks again.

Thousands of people claim to have witness the Phoenix Lights in 1997. But that does not prove that we have been visited by aliens. People see what they want to see and interpret it in many ways to suit themselves.

Buzzybee, can you say what you would define as proof or evidence.

Do you believe the sightings of Phoenix Lights 1997 were an event and if so, what proof or evidence would you require of the sightings? I am not sure where you are coming from on this.

Those Chinese lanterns were put up as UFO's or similar until they were exposed for being what they were. Once you are gone you are gone but the actual atoms of which you consist never actually disappear they just get used up as something else, depends where you are interred or incinerated.

I thought Phoenix lights was brilliant. Love stuff about Lancashire!! :-) The two bouncers were hilarious!!

Liver Radio has a programme about this tonight-complete with a phone-in medium and ghost writers. I think it's at 8 o'clock and is hosted by a guy called Mark. They are testing the lines as I type.

As it's Easter,you may like to see the beauty of this on live webcam.
The Vatican, Rome.

http://www.mladifest.com/medjugorje/photo/camino2008/3/vatican.htm

Christos Anesti! I hope you all had a joyful day this Easter Sunday.

Do we believe?

http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/2632/figure-formed-in-cloud-during-medjugorje-mass/

http://www.medjugorje.ws/en/updates/

You don't need to go abroad in search of the miraculous, granny.

There's a woman buried in Neston who people still believe was a saint.

http://www.teresahigginson.com/

The following link explains a bit more:

http://www.catholicrevelations.org/PR/teresa%20higginson.htm

People are free to believe in what ever they want. It doesn't necessarily meant it's true. What ever rocks your boat is fine so long as you are a good person.

Thanks for that Geekus. Have tried to wade through it, but very heavy!

Nikleg, I agree. We are lucky, to be able to make our own choices and act accordingly.

At the end of the day we are all given "free will" to belive what we want and what makes us comfortable.

Perhaps, the idea of life after death is a misconception.

We tend to think of death as being the opposite of life. You are either alive or dead. But really, death is the opposite of birth. Life is life, and always continues in some form. Birth and death are just transitions from one form of life into another.

I agree death is the beginning of the next journey.

toula