Hey all
I could really do with some advice at the moment. For the last year or so I've been trying to trace my granddad who was last seen in 1949, nothing has been heard from him since apart from a rumour that my Granddad may have moved to Corby and worked there in maybe the 60's or 70's (My granddad was from Scotland and Corby had quite a large Scottish community that worked there). All methods of trying to track him down have been exhausted; he may have changed his name. I have his birth certificate and his army No. and regiment but the MOD isn't giving anything away unless it was to my Nan who is now deceased. My sister even paid private investigators to try and locate him...though how much effort they put in we don't know. Anyway there are two names in Northhamptonshire ( where he may have been last know to be) I looked up using 192.com his name John G Smith and two exact matches came up, now 192.com want me to pay £149 to search their electoral roll to find out more details a bit steep to be honest. Is there any way to find more information on these two names? Or if anyone has access rights to an electoral roll to find out more. He would be 88 now so it would be cutting it fine. He may have also moved abroad though as I know Interpol tried to look for him when he 'disappeared' from my Nan back in '49.
Any advice or info would be greatly received; I'd even pay good money if anyone found anything out that would lead me to finding out whether he is dead now or living out the last of years knowing he left 3 children behind.
If anyone wants any more info from me let me know, I'm in work at the mo but have a bit more info like where he was born, the last place he was living e.t.c
Thanks
With the info you have then you maybe need a third party to approach the two matching contacts to see if he is your grandad. At 88 he may relish the chance to re establish contact with family or he may just wish to remain as he is. The Sally Ann or something like that may do it for a dropsy into the funds. It's worth enquiring.
Well he'll be 90 this year so it may be a case of finding where he died, if he changed his name it's going to be useless. The MOD will only release details to my nan (deceased) or 116 years after birth date, he was born in 1920. I knew where he was born, he seems to have eluded everyone. Will ring up corby BMD to find out if he popped his clogs in the last place he was rumoured to be.
I've never had to find anyone, but i would tend to go down the National Insurance number route, if that's at all possible, after all, we are supposed to have that number from cradle to the grave. I don't know if its possible to change that number along with a name change or if there any other circumstances that would change it. It always puzzles me, when people want to go missing how do they get a Doctor, dentist or sign on etc without that number. If anyone wants to get a job and has to pay tax and stamp, wouldn't that number be needed.
We may have the national insurance No. or have a family member who does? But where would I go from with this No.?
Perhaps the inland revenue, customs and excise as they are now, I don't suppose its that easy, there are bound to be proper channels to go down, but worth a look in to.
If he has died you may be able to trawl ancestry.co.uk and look at the BMD, it will take a bit of detective work though thats for sure. It may grab your interest and you will look for other family stuff too.
I would have to look at every death on the BMD for every district in England and wales, I know scotland was a pain in the backside when it came to BMD's. I know the exact dob, is there a way of inputting the dob to find a death record? He may have also buggered off to one of the other commonwealth countries, I certainly think he didn't want to be caught for missing out on supporting my mohter and her sister and brother.Just hoping he didnt change his name, though it's not a common name as he was scottish, John Grant Payne, as it appears on his birth certificate.
Have you tried leaving messages on
http://www.rootschat.com it's active for Britain and NZ,AUS,CAN,USA the forums have lots of helpful people, you never know.
Will have a look, thank you
Have you thought of using the local papers in the areas that you know where he lived (ie Northhamptonshire) to see if anyone knew him?
Only a quick reply Paul as I'm at work, will try to find local papers for Corby and surrounding areas and do it, nothing to lose.
Or if anyone see a local paper for that area while i'm at work put it on here and I will contact them.
Just a quickie...cheers, will look at it when I get home.
Right I have 2 exact matches for 'John G Payne' on 192.com, one was for the electoral roll 2002, and the other 2002-3 at the time he would have been 82/3 Not sure why they stop at those dates, one of the names has an occupant who's electoral roll went to 2002-5 with the matching name now listed as an occupant...odd , like a change around in who would be the main name on the electoral role. I'm going to pay £9.25 to look on the
www.theukelectoralroll.co.uk to search the whole UK electoral roll and BMD...hopefully search those years listed about and try and find out ages of the persons living there to see if they match. Just gotta wait for my bank card to be delivered as I did the typical once a year losing of the card just after new year.
Have you had a go here, 14 day free trial, might be worth a look.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/home.jsp
Hey Bert, I tried that a while ago, couldn't find anything on the Deaths register which either meant he was alive albeit in his late 80's or abroad or changed his name. Will search the uk electoral roll tonight and find out. Thanks
Have you tried the wirral Archives/National Archives?I know if you go down there you can use there computers (you get full access to all records free of charge.)
Links.
http://www.wirral.gov.uk/LGCL/100009/200111/content_0002044.htmlhttp://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/archon/searches/locresult_details.asp?LR=140 worth a go
Good look.
I went to Liverpool Central Library, after waiting for half an hour for a computer (it was busy to say the least) I was then given half an hour on the comp, 5 mins either side booting up and to shut down
Will have to see how much time I can spend on 'em half an hour was no time at all to do what I had to. I couldnt find any deaths when I went in October time, for the whole of england and wales, but now have exact names for 2002 & 2002/3 in the last area he may have been in (Northampton) but then they stop.
You can stay there all day if you want?
Take some ID with you say your off wiki wirral,
they are use to wiki members going down for info! they will give you all the help you need bud!
May do that, if you are sure that I can spend more than half an hour on the comps. I just found out the opening hours are 10 till on a sat as I work mon to fri. I could probably do with all those 3 hours, though I could spend 24 hours in a place like that. I will end up getting side tracked. Too much information too little time. Well if the place has BMD for the uk that go back to 2002 and electoral roll's for the country that go back till 2002 too I will be a happy man.
Righteo another question, is there any way to see patient list for children who were in the Leasowe Hospital in the early twentieth century? My grandad's sister broke her back when she was a child falling down the stairs and I was told she spent the last of her days in the big hospital in Leasowe, I know there was another thread about the hospital made a while ago.
Hmmm I take it, they are archived for so&so amount of years and then destroyed, I think the archived material should be put on microfiche so it can be kept without it keeping too much space.
Looking into one relative has led me into looking into another relative on the other side of the family...arghh too much too little time.
Righteo another question, is there any way to see patient list for children who were in the Leasowe Hospital in the early twentieth century? My grandad's sister broke her back when she was a child falling down the stairs and I was told she spent the last of her days in the big hospital in Leasowe, I know there was another thread about the hospital made a while ago.
Ask them on the hospital records? As TC said they dont mind helping you out, They will show you were to start looking.
Hmmm I take it, they are archived for so&so amount of years and then destroyed, I think the archived material should be put on microfiche so it can be kept without it keeping too much space.
Looking into one relative has led me into looking into another relative on the other side of the family...arghh too much too little time.
They do put a lot of stuff on micro.
Might make my way up there tomorrow for the 3 hours or how long it's open for on a Saturday. Thank you very much.
best to phone first and check facts
You may be best booking a computer as there may be others going there to use pcs
Will find No. now and ring up.
Righteo just rung up the chap at the archives, he just explained it costs nothing and you can stay on for as long as you like unlike Liverpool's half an hour stint. Though they do not have access to 2002/3 electoral roll information, just 19th century electoral roll as far as I know. I will still go down though just to try and find info on the Itallian desendancy of my Seacombe born grandad's grandmother and family. Only have his birth certificate but that will have other names on to go on from. As for the 2002/3 electoral roll's for my other missing grandad will pay £9.25 for the moth's access to all bmd and electoral roll's from
www.theukelectoralrole.co.uk
Might make my way up there tomorrow for the 3 hours or how long it's open for on a Saturday. Thank you very much.
You going tomorrow
Hey, Couldn't make it up today as I had prior engagements, will definately go next weekend. All I have to do now regarding my other grandad is to contact the newspaper I was given a link to and put in a request for information and keep my fingers crossed. I'm also going to either phone (If i have the No.) or write to the matching names in Northampton to find info on my grandad, chances are he is dead but if he had children they might be interested. I also have quite a few matching first and last names in northampton I'm going to have to send a blanket letter to see if I get any info.
Hey, Couldn't make it up today as I had prior engagements, will definately go next weekend. All I have to do now regarding my other grandad is to contact the newspaper I was given a link to and put in a request for information and keep my fingers crossed. I'm also going to either phone (If i have the No.) or write to the matching names in Northampton to find info on my grandad, chances are he is dead but if he had children they might be interested. I also have quite a few matching first and last names in northampton I'm going to have to send a blanket letter to see if I get any info.
hope you get a result mate
might be going down next weekend myself bud could meet up!
I've nothing planned for sat morning yet, if anything changes will let you know.
Just phoned the newspaper in Northampton and I cant put anything in the paper which has my grandad's name in it and that I'm looking, in case he doesn't want to be found. Looks like its back to sending every person with the first and last name a blanket letter.
Have you tried putting a post on
www.nowhere.co.uk ? I did that for Bebington and found some cousins I'd not seen for ages. Just search on the main page for Northampton.
Spent years looking for my Grandad and then when I found him they wouldn't let me dig him up, b......ds
I visited a load of relatives yesterday. All dead of course....
in a churchyard.
Oh dear, these are jokes folks!!
Who? When? Where? Why? I don't think asian escorts are going to help me here. Thats the second spam post I've seen this week.
the important questions were asked and answered and then it got a bit light hearted......big deal. Lighten up for Christs sake.
Hi Merseyman
Can you just tell me what your grandfathers name is, as in one post you have John G Smith and then in another John G Payne.
Ancestry has become alot easier searching deaths. Birth dates only show up after the 1960's. Sometimes it is luck. Sometimes no middle name has been recorded. Depends on who registered the death and the information they knew.
If you say he left around 1949, have you checked ships lists in case he emigrated to Australia. Alot of people went about that time.
As for searching electoral rolls, yes you do have to pay, otherwise try finding old phone books and see if he is listed.
As for the war/navy etc. They only give the records to the next of kin, but if your nan has died you should produce a death certificate, and then the eldest living child should be able to pay for the records. it cost my hubby about £30 to get his fathers.
Two sites you could look at for more info, are
www.genuki.org.ukwww.rootschat.com Both sites are free, though to read alot of the stuff you have to become a member rootschat.
hth
Hi
sorry about the late reply. My grandfathers name is John Grant Payne, I just used 'John G Smith' as an example
He was born in a poor house called Morayshire Union poorhouse, 2 High Street, Elgin Morayshire.
Birth is 05/10/1920
His mother is Alexina Cameron Payne (My great grandmother) when she gave birth to him he stayed in the poorhouse, he stayed there until he was old enough to join the seaforth Highlanders, where he later was based in Deyes lane family camp where he lived with my nan and their children (my mother being one of them). Previously to him being based here they lived in india during world war 2 where my uncle was born (1944) and my auntie (1946) they were based in Agra in india and were married in St.Patricks church/cathedral in Jan 1944. When India gained independence in 1947 the family came to live back over here in the Deyes lane family camp in maghull, in 1949 the last child was born (my mother) 6 moths later he left the family never to be seen again.
Over the weekend I found a website for Morayshire where my grandfather was born, this has numerous records of families born in poorhouses in the exact area my grandfather was born. Weirdly enough I managed to find my grandfathers parents and his parents and the same for Alexina (John Grants mother), though there is no record of him being in a poorhouse ( it is documented on the birth certificate) he was born illegitametely, his mother met a man named James smith aged 42 while she was 24 and was married in Feb 1921 in Rothes (I have the marriage certificate) 4 months after my grandad was born, from the records I found she had a child with James Smith called Emily, mean while James Smith 42 had 5 children to a previous marriage. Still no sign of her illegitamate child my grandad. It's like she left him, don't know whther he found out who his mother was. I just dont know how she could have another child with this James Smith (Emily Smith) my mothers aunty and my grandad live in the same area whilst his mother sets up a new life.
The website I went to was
http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.aspI did numerous people searches, I actually found out more going back in time but hit a brick wall when it came to my grandad.
I'm going to try and find out about my great grandmothers child Emily Smith, she must have been born after 1920 when my grandad was born.
I will also phone this heritage centre up on the Moray website and find out how one person can not be traced at all.
P.S I also have my grandad's army serial number and he was a corporal in 1949. My nan has passed away now and my aunty has, my uncle must have kind of knew his father being born in 1949 but my mother was only 6 months old so she didn't remember anything at all..
It's certainly a head f**k doing this haha
If you have your g'dads army service number etc. you can go on Ancestry and see what records you can dig out there, the have got army records on site. It all just takes a bit of patience and you have to be more than a little inquisitive. It's fascinating what you find out though.
Thanks, he was in the army at least in 1949 (Seaforth Highlanders R.A.P.C), from what I see there are records but only of casualties e.g Roll of Honour for world war 2 anything later I can’t see. Unless I am looking with my eyes closed
I spoke to a lady from the phone number listed on the Moray website and she couldn’t find any records, she asked if I had done any more military research since we knew what regiment he was in, haven’t really been able to find much out, but she told me to e-mail her all details and army No. and she'll find out what she can do to help. Very friendly and helpful.
Yep, had a closer look at that Merseyman and you are of course correct. It's difficult to get hold of any recent stuff on the geneology sites.
EXCITING NEWS!
Thanks to rootsweb..someone recommended them earlier on, made three posts on the moray forum, the canada forum and the beginners forum. Had a couple of replies giving a 99.9% positive reply to the whereabout of my grandad, sadly this chap died in 2004 but he re-married in 93 aged 73 abroad, his DOB is an exact match as well as his name, he arrived where he did in 1954. will give more details soon, very excited gotta make the call to my mother who was only 6 months when he left....will keep you posted
many thanks to everyone
Merseyman, that is brilliant. Patience rewarded. Well done mate.
Excellent news! keep us posted.
I second that power to your ellbow and good luck
Just been e-mailed by mods on rootsweb to take down most of info as they have rules on recently deceased and all that, so had to rush and save all replies into word before they went. Would have been s*it creek without a paddle then
MerseyMan, I may have some info for you regarding where to find the death of your granddad - which leads to more leads! But because of rules you mentioned before, I can't put the info here. I will PM you the info.
Congrats of finding him!
I haven't logged into the forum for a while but as I done some of my own family history a while ago, I couldn't resist trying to find something for you.
Hi
Just an update, my grandad ended up getting married twice in the US and daopting a child in his first marriage. I am in contact with his step daughters from both marriages and they have sent me photos of him when he was older (his 2nd marriage) and when he was younger (his first marriage) crazyness as he was still married to my nan, anyway been on the phone to his step daughter from his first marriage and she sent some 8mm film and photos and his step daughter from his second marriage. The family have been trying to find him for years with so called help from the Samaritans and the red cross and no help from the MOD. The likeness of my grandad to my uncle now is uncanny, but he looked a lot like my mother when he was younger. The step daughter from his first marriage didn't know anything about my grandad already being married and having left 3 children. But then his punishment was to live out the rest of his life living with what he had done. Now in the process of doing my family tree on genes reunited/ancestry...and it's a big process.
P.S can we not have geanelogy forum or something similar I think it would go down well especially for local people, I have a lot of photos from the area people my recognise themselves on and having all posts in one forum will make it much easier to located and find what you need...just a suggestion.
You've done well mate, any noticeable upset in the states with the news they got.
I'd say moreso from his first step daughter but she has been good enough to send some film and photos and a letter, if she knew earlier that would have been a different story. Both families referred to him a 'dad' and 'gramps' and they said he used to tell them about his travels when in the army minus, the bit where he married my nan in 1944 to 1949 when he left. I don't know how he could have married twice and kept 5+ years of marriage and kept the children a secret. Though in 1962 he came over with his first wife and step daughter back to scotland to see a child he had out of wedlock, this would make this child my mum's half sister. It looks like when he left my nan he went with another woman and had a girl named Hilary with a woman named Ella in about 1951, that's all we know. From the 8mm film we have that he took when he visited edinbrugh he filmed his daughter as he visited them butdid not visit the children to my nan's marriage which was a bit of a blow to my mum and uncle. Then I suppose he was still married to my nan so it would be a hell of a lot more complicated visiting his still married wife and three children. When he did visit scotland in 1962 it was the same year my uncle joined the army (the same regiment as his dad)and my uncle was posted up to Scotland to do his square bashing.
What an amazing story. Please keep us updated.
Brilliant news! Made up for ya. Your posititivity+ enthusiasm has put me in a proper good mood. Keep us informed please...
Was one of the children called Freda. Lived there 1950-1952 ish ? Geoff S.
Only just seen this message now from ANON, can't really contact this person back as they were anon.
That's good going MerseyMan, nice to see your doggedness rewarded. Can understand the little upset bit, I think we can all fall into the category where we may get an unexpected knock from unknown relatives. Shock when it happens but then you learn to live with it and accept it for what it is. We all think we have a half brother around somehwere, maybe we'll find out eventually.
Glad you had a positive result. This information may help others looking for family members:
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The Salvation Army Family Tracing Service
101 Newington Causeway
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Telephone: 0845 634 4747 or download request for tracing at salvationarmy.org.uk
