Anyone know what's happening and why such a big area is police taped off from bottom of Clifton Road?

Please see below.

Kind regards,
Ian


http://www.wirralnews.co.uk/wirral-...d-at-house-in-birkenhead-80491-29003702/

A SUSPECTED burglar was stabbed during a raid at a Wirral house.

Police sealed off Clifton Road, Birkenhead, this morning after an elderly householder fought off a night time raid by two men – leaving one of them with knife wounds.

The 72-year-old suffered cuts to his face during a struggle with the men at 5.30am. The men, both aged 39 and from Birkenhead were in custody this morning.

Stunned neighbours saluted the have-a-go-hero’s actions as they woke up to police tape blocking their street and traffic diversions.

Dave Hughes, 46, said: "I was up at 6am when they were putting the tape up and I spoke to a police officer.

"They said that two people had broken into a house and the occupier had stabbed one of them.

"People who break in deserve everything they get."

Joanne Russell said: "I think they got here between 6am and 7am. My partner left at 4.30am and there was no sign of anything then.

"My daughter woke me up. It makes me feel sick seeing all these police here. It’s scary."

Two patrol cars remained at the scene this morning, protecting evidence, but there was no sign of CID or forensic support at the semi detached, turn of the century home.

Locals were being turned away from the junction of Borough Road and Clifton Road near the Birkenhead Tunnel flyover.

A neighbour, who did not wish to be named, added: "It’s obviously something very serious. I first became aware of this when we brought the kids out to get them to school.

"It’s fairly worrying to have something like this happen when you have a young family. It makes you wonder if you want to go on living here."

Less than a week ago justice minister Ken Clarke said it was acceptable for a homeowner to pick up a knife and stab a burglar. He said that an act of Parliament would be used to "clarify" the existing legal right to use "reasonable force" against intruders.

His remarks were prompted by the arrest of a householder after a burglar was stabbed in Salford the previous week.

Mr Clarke added it would remain illegal to pursue intruders, to attack them or to shoot them as they fled.

Mr Clarke said: "If an old lady finds she has got an 18 year-old burgling her house and she picks up a kitchen knife and sticks it in him she has not committed a criminal offence and we will make that clear."

Anyone with information is urged to call police on 0151 777 2265.

Thanks for that. I had read on the news that it had been in Rodney Street which had confused me.

Good on the old timer.

yeah, well done to the old chap. he deserves a medal

well done him for defending his rights and his life !

bet the scrote who was on the pointy end will think twice in future

good on him - desrves a medal

Yes jabber I quite agree seems as a prison sentence is no deterant to most of them.

Good on them!! If anyone broke in here, they'd get a pair of crutches round their heads.

Gap in the market opening up for someone scummy with spare cash........... body armour for burglars!!

As a lawyer, I have to advise against use of excessive force in this way. Do enough to get rid of them. I accept and realise that the law is not brilliant in this respect, but those of you advocating stabbing a human being and suggesting that it is an acceptable use of force are far from correct.

Remember, many of you were the ones feeling sorry for the chap threatening to throw himself off a crane. People who have suffered serious mental trauma or who are that desperate for money/fix etc will do things like this.

Kind regards,
Ian

Two strapping lads wide awake and ready for trouble break in to your house while you're aleep.

What's "enough to get rid of them"?


Let's see, give them a chinese burn and hope it scares them off.

Scratch then with a hat pin and hope they leg it to get medical treatment in case it goes septic?

Hand everything you possess over and ask if they want tea or coffee to go with that?

The best ways to stick a knife into them until they leave or are incapacitated enough not to stick their knife into you or use the tool on you they used to break into your house!!

It's not in a solicitors interest to have burgling ... scared to break into peoples houses, it's a loss of income for them after all!!

I rather suspect that you know what I mean, and I don't propose to enter into the rights and wrongs of solicitors either.

Excessive force is just that... excessive force.

Now this old chap could well be in trouble, or could be deemed that what he did was appropriate. A lot will come down to number of stab wounds and their location. If they were stabbed in the back whilst leaving having already ransacked the place then that is excessive.

You can't stab someone to prevent them leaving, you could perhaps stab them to stop them doing the same to you.

The bottom line is that in the eyes of the law, the life of the person in your house, regardless of whether he should or should not be there, is more important than your belongings.

Of course, I am not in possession of the full facts of the case and it would be wrong of me to apply any of the above to the case in point. Therefore everything I say is 'for example'.

Kind regards,
Ian

I think the gov should post a health warning notice to all houses that you can put in your window stating BEWARE YOU BREAK IN AT YOUR OWN RISK - THINK TWICE BEFORE ENTERING.Also a name and shame notice with pic put in local shop windows of anyone caught and convicted in that area

As long as you only do what you "honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment", that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence. As long as you don't chase after them to continue your attack or attack them further if you render them unconscious, then it's very rare for the CPS/DPP to prosecute.

As for stabbing someone - if the intruder is the one that brought the weapon into the building with them (making it an elevated offence of aggravated burglary) then I honestly can't see the CPS prosecuting the householder as it wouldn't be in the public interest.

Are you a deffence lawyer for these types of ... bags? If so you should be ashamed mate. If not then I apologise.

I know you're only speaking through a "legal-eye" but even as a solicitor, you must agree that the law is ridiculous in this area? ( aswell as many others, lol ).


2 x 39 year old men break into a 72 year old pensioner's house yet legally he isn't allowed to harm them in order to deffend himself?
What a load of rubbish.

This is nothing to do with thier mental state - they are purely bone idle, thieving ... bags who deserve everything they get.
If they need money whether it be for a "fix" or anything else, they should get off thier arses and get a job.

There are plenty around for those who truely want one - if you're that desparate, you'll take any job to bring the money in ( believe me, I've been there ) but breaking the law, thieving, burgling, stealing e.t.c. is done at your own risk.
If you get hurt while in the process of committing a crime then it's your own bad luck - no sympathy what so ever for them.

What's excessive force got to do with it?
As you said - " do enough to get rid of them" - he did just that so job done!!

I know what I'd do in his situation and many others too. My property is my private, personal domain - I wouldn't like to be on the recieving end of me and my wife in the middle of the night that's for sure.


Well done old guy - the world needs more people like you - 72 and still putting up a fight - good on you mate!!

^^^^^ yea that. Hear Hear

Volly,

No, I am not a criminal defence lawyer.

You will also not that I did mention that the law was not brilliant in this respect and a well needed shake up is on it's way due to cases of this type.

Kind regards,
Ian

Fair enough

My assumption - if I caught anyone, would be that they are tooled up for the job, be it bars, screwdrivers etc, and maybe even knives.

I think Id want to strike first if they where in my home.

Fair play to him - I hope the blood trail leads the police straight to to theiving ...!

Not necessary, they only need to open the cell door

I would use any force necessary and take the consequences.
What about the house holders mental state being confronted in their own home!

excessive force.... doubt a 72 year old could dosh out excessive force to be fair.

We dont know if he took the knife off them ! Personally i find this excessive force issue a wild card.

So some thieveing ***** *** ******* ***** *** **** breaks into your house to steal from you, you defend yourself, but what if you strike someone in such a way with an open hand or foot, your not armed so is that reasonable force as youve not actually picked up a weapon?

Well done to the old chap, as an old instructor of mine used to say "Better to be Judged by twelve than be carried by six".

The issue here is the use of reasonable force; you can use any force that is reasonable in the Defence of your self, defence of others or property and the aspect of whether the force is reasonable is different in every situations. Im just glad he is still around to tell the story.

I love it when you talk dirty! What is your friends name?

You don't hear anything about the wealthy people who live in the country and own guns (except that farmer) getting burgled.
Does the thought of getting shot deterred the thieves.
Am apprehensive that the burglars may start going in armed to prevent folks from doing any harm to them as a result of what has happened lately
ps think it best to keep your defensive means in the bedroom rather than downstairs where they could be found and used against you

Noticed the road was closed this morning on the way to work. Didn't have a clue what gone on!

Bril

to the old fella, you should be able to protect yourself in your own home, well done again, these people get what they deserve

It actually happened in the elderly peoples sheltered accomodation in Rodney Street. What ...!!

Ill have to ask my dad.he only lives over the road from those flats

If you find someone in your house and they don't leg off when they first here or see you, surely a reasonable assumption is that they are going to physically defend their position.

You aren't a mind reader, I would think it reasonable for you to assume that the invader has more experience than you in physical violence and hence I see nothing wrong in anything that disables the invader.

If they know the law permits a violent defence by the victim in these situations - they are choosing to enter your property under those rules, and hopefully they get what they deserve.

Just to play safe, if you keep a baseball bat beside your bed, also keep a ball close by, just in case some idiot says you are pre-empting using violence.

Full marks to the OAP, should be given a civic award.

errata: "HEAR you"

I spoke to an old fella this morning from the sheltered housing,he said the place was covered in blood,and the police caught one of them but couldn't find the one who was injured,they thought he would of been dead somewhere.
Glad to read read they now have found him,so the poor old fella isn't looking at manslaughter charges.

The Enforcer I said crUtches not crOtches

Volly - I DID work in Criminal Defence

DID? Please tell me you stopped because you felt bad about defending ... bags like these?

I was a rarity - working in Criminal Defence with a conscience I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. Thing is, I went from that to PI Frying pan -> fire

Well it's good to know you couldn't just happily carry on with it for the money.

I don't understand how the deffence lawyers can live with themselves half of the time.

I've done a bit of P.I. work in the past aswell - exciting isn't it? lol.

There's no money in Criminal Law. I'm contemplating returning to it, sort of but not sure yet. Depends what Friday brings.

PI - riveting!! Helps though when you end up having to put a claim in

I've heard of a few cases where burglars have broken in and fallen down unsafe stairs or something like that, sued the owners for the injuries and won! What?? Why do they have a right against harm when they're breaking the law themselves, trying to steal etc. When they steal from the state they're put in prison but if it's just your own home and you could only be hurt then it's tough, sit back and watch them take your stuff or try and hurt you. Sigh!

Her, that one, the Mother-in-Law lives in Reay Court, a sheltered housing complex, in Seacombe.
There has been lots of 'break ins' over the last few weeks-mainly due to the fact that exiting visitors allow 'new' visitors/strangers to enter the premises, 'to save them buzzing up'!!.

Just be aware peeps!