more Muslim madness!!!!!!

A man has been beheaded and at least one other person injured in a suspected Islamist attack on a gas factory near the French city of Lyon.

There were several small explosions, possibly caused by gas canisters, at the Air Products factory in Saint-Quentin-Fallavier, sources said.

A man has been arrested by anti-terror police, officials say.

Reports suggest two attackers drove into the factory carrying a flag with Arabic writing on it.

French President Francois Hollande will leave the EU summit in Brussels this afternoon and return to France. He is expected to give a news conference before travelling.

Makes you wonder how Jdemo will justify this.

what will be scary is when these people call on the apparently ordinary Muslims in the uk to turn on us,witch wont be to long as they have about 8 kids each,will they disobey allha and the sky fairies i don't think so,me no god no worries

Horrific !

How long are the authorities in these European countries going to dither for ?
They are not protecting the populations of their countries they have no idea how to. Just wait for the next happening of horror and get everyone giving condolences to the Head of State, not the poor family members who have just lost their father.
They take a couple of hours at these very important meetings to discuss the issues in question and arrange another meeting to arrange a meeting, to have another discussion. Then they seem able to tell everyone else what they can and can't do. They should all be horse whipped into making a move ,if they have no answers to the problems, they should not be sitting in positions of power.

These countries need to be investing in many more 'lock up's'. If he was known to the police , how and why did they know of him.
Sounds like much the same mess the police administer in this country too.

Well, I'm really on one today, which has probably been triggered by this very incident. So no apologies but np more from me.

My sympathies go to the family who must be torn apart and to work colleagues who witnessed the attack.

....and another in Tunisia.

At least 27 people, mostly foreigners, have been killed in an attack on a beach near two tourist hotels in the Tunisian resort town of Sousse, according to the interior ministry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-33287978


quote: The Islamic State militant group had called on its followers to increase attacks during the Islamic fasting month of Ramadan, but no-one has yet said they were behind this attack"

we need compulsory military service bringing back soon,we must defend ourselves

Why doesn't anyone take these people 'really' seriously until after the event ? Egypt warned us. Tunisia have announced they are closing 80 mosques (cant do that here because of human rights)
I think IS are achieving in destabilising Europe. Other threats include throwing homosexuals off the tower of Pizza and heading for London.


23rd February 2015.......

Rome on high alert with Islamic State just 300 miles from Italy

About 500 extra troops have been stationed around historic sites in Rome after ISIS made threats against the city last week.

Italy, which is just 300-miles from jihadi-controlled territory in Libya, was referred to by the terrorists as “the nation signed with the blood of the cross” in a recent video.

ISIS has made repeated references to conquering Rome in its various messages, although there is some debate about whether “Rome” in fact refers to a symbolic enemy, or perhaps Turkey or the United States. However, according to USA Today, security has been increased in the city.

In its video last week of the murder of 21 Coptic Christians , ISIS warned that they were “south of Rome”. The Islamist organisation now controls Benghazi, Libya’s second city, as the country has descended into civil war following the overthrow of Colonel Gaddafi in 2011.

It has threatened to flood Europe with 500,000 refugees and so destabilise the continent.

Words fail me about the vile and horrific happenings of yesterday. What is the answer to stop all this? Makes me feel so depressed, my heart goes out to everyone involved in this, poor people poor families. I want to take me and mine and blast off from this world and start again on another, I wish.....

To start with , surely all their propaganda should be removed from the internet ?

In this country, I would ban the niqab and camera's should be installed in Mosques. That is called surveillance and should be made law. No more greater offence can be created than our people being killed and an opposition to the things that could help resolve.

So far as schooling goes, kids should be despatched more evenly as they were when we used to have the 11 plus exams and various grammar schools and secondary schools were dotted around the cities. That would stop the intensity, as a protection for the next generation and bring another level to closed communities.

Religious schools, as much as I think they can give a better standard of education , should now be banned for ALL denominations including the Jewish schools.

The time has come and no one should have preferential treatment above another.

A number of years ago, an MP made an iconic speech in this country. No one listened and he was blacklisted but strangely enough, it looks as if we could now be embarking on the same crusade..

Nail on head there Granny. Good old Enoch. I'm assuming you were referring to him.

Thanks for reminding me Pinz, I have just re-read Enoch Powell's "Rivers of blood speech" and I must say he displayed remarkable prescience 47 years ago, but he was only concerned about immigration from the Commonwealth, little did he know that our green and sceptered isle would be assailed by blood thirsty savages and ne'er do well benefit claimants from all points of the compass who only wish to exploit our ridiculously generous benefits system ( to foreigners ),show no sign or intention of integrating, play the racism card at every opportunity, including manipulating our invertebrate judiciary and pass up no occasion to tell us how much they hate us and hate living here. well I've got news for you lovely adherents of the peaceful mental illness that you call Islam, we're not too chuffed with you either.

Everyone at the time knew he was speaking the truth but it was supposed to be the unspoken truth, to try and shut him up attempts were made to discredit him.

you see, Islam is a religion, and if you call Islam a mental illness then you have to call EVERY religion a mental illness, surely?

ISIS are probably what everyone is referring to, yes they commit atrocities and yes their actions are uncondonable but by tarring every Muslim with the ISIS brush you're essentially blaming people who are blameless.

I don't know if anyone here watched The Last Leg last night on channel 4, but Adam Hills made a very good point. If you say that Islam as a religion is to blame for all the atrocities, then by that reason all white men are to blame for what happened when a kid shot up a church last week, or that all austrians are to blame for the killing of 6 million jews.

If memory serves, Heath sacked him from the shadow cabinet the day after his speech.

what a mistake that was

Very noble point made. However, if you are an atheist, surely your own view must be, broadly speaking, much the same ?
I don't understand how any atheist can be supportive of any religion, because atheist don't believe in any deity. Therefore it's all 'hocus pocus' !
So maybe it would be better if accusations are made against people who portray to follow the religion of Islam and would that make it any easier ?
Surely you have to agree, that if you had a close relative or friend who had been decapitated or shot in the name of Islam, you too would not have much confidence in the system of protection. Let's not forget that many have still not been able to forgive the 'Germans' for the atrocities committed 70 years ago, and so far we do not know how many atrocities have been committed by ISIS. I understand what you are trying to get across, but as approx. 700 have gone from the British Muslim community and they suspect a total of 6000 Europeans have gone to fight for jihadist in Syria, radicalisation is on the up and beginning to spread like a disease !

no i completely understand your point, i'm not one of the ultimate atheist type that think every religion is witchcraft, i'm the type that doesn't really care, believe what you want to believe as long as you don't ram it down my throat. The problem i have with islamophobia is that it's targeting EVERY muslim person and that is something i don't want to deal with. I accept there's always someone who will go against the grain in any community or religion but don't tarnish the rest of said community because of that one person.

just because less than 1% of muslims are on some sort of jihad against "the west" that doesn't mean ALL of them are. the reason i'm kind of getting wound up about all this is because i work with a few muslim's and on a daily basis they are with the rest of us in not understanding the ISIS angle. they actively distance themselves from ISIS, they are peaceful and lovely people and when i hear or see people say "muslims this, muslims that" then it riles me up. Other than the examples i've previously given, i could go on and on and on generalising whole communities and religions until the cows come home but i don't want to because frankly i'm not a dick.

I do accept SOME muslims are bad people, but so are some catholics, some jews, some protestants, some buddhists, some jehovah's witnesses, some hare krishna's, etc etc. i know i go on defending religions when i'm an atheist, but i'm not defending a religion per se, i'm defending the people within that religion who are nice, honest, hard working people who don't have an evil bone in their body. I treat everyone as an individual because everyone is an individual no matter their colour, heritage, religion, nationality, sexuality or political stance and is it too much for me to expect others to at least consider having the same stance and not generalising and ostracising whole religions and communities???

Well said J-demo, and I think that almost just about everyone would agree with your synopsis in general.

Unfortunately, people are becoming wary and scared of the recent dreadful happenings and if people in certain communities are shielding others, of which I am sure is happening, then everyone comes under the flag of suspicion.

How is it that Tunisia, a Muslim country, is about to close over 80 Mosques ? That in itself sends loud messages.

Well said j-demo

I feel that it's just a tragic moment in life , a psycho decides to go on a killing spree , happens a lot in America ... could argue that it's fearmongery on the part of our government as it's all over the news pages and channels , or that it's a distraction from the true atrocities in life .... like the Royal family needing a 150 million pound refurbishment , or the national minimum wage or average people working until you're in your mid sixties ,just to pay bills and more importantly to make the government and monarchy even richer !!! Oh but aren't Muslim's bad hey .... let's go to war !!! pffft

That sort of comment is beyond comprehension . How could you compare national minimum wage, working until mid sixties etc. with the abomination of beheading of children for a start ? Disgusting response with a very selfish attitude .

Do we want to become like US and other countries where its a right for joe public to bear arms--or will we just end up in a bigger mess with so many brainless idiots on our streets doped to the eyes

Ironic juxtaposition of charity advert at the top of the home page.

I don't expect everyone to have the exact same opinion or to comprehend my views and could not care less for yours Granny !! It's atrocious the way people act and think these days , I'm certain that our government and monarchy are responsible for far worse atrocities and crimes than what's reported in the news (which is fearmongery) was my point ... if that makes it easier for you to comprehend !! but aren't Muslim's bad hey ? Not the government or monarchy being modern day slave driving bullies (which is far more important) , so tragic those innocent people who died as a result of a psycho attacking them in Tunisia , Lyon and Kuwait I believe .. but their suffering is over as all of ours continue !!

ah well

OMG Gary! You are unbelievable!! You glibly pass this off and moan and blame everyone else for your woes, good job you don't live in another country you'd get no benefits at all! Their suffering is over you say, theres families lost their mothers, father, sons, daughters etc, is their suffering over too? You offend me!

The only thing you are suffering from Gary is smoking too much dope !!!

I'm not on benefits and I don't smoke dope, nor could I care less for you being offended by opinions that you don't share or understand as your remarks show how intolerant and ignorant you truly are , I was talking about the whole populations woes being more important than a scaremongering campaign so get that straight !

As for stating the obvious regarding the murdered people's families ... of course they are suffering ! I didn't say they weren't did I ? Just because you're offended ,doesn't mean you're right !

Well glad to hear you're not on benefits anymore Gary, good for you! It's you that wants to wake up and smell the coffee!! Scaremongering campaign indeed. This is not going to go away quickly and more atrocities will take place, in your opinion just simply tragic moments in life. You should have started a new thread and not put your crass insensitive comments on this one.....

Gary, perhaps you should give your fleshlight a bashing, you seem a bit overwrought old love.

Slightly off topic but out of interest as j-demo might know the answer

During the month of Ramadan are Muslim doctors, nurses, and any other Muslim health workers in the NHS exempt, or do they fast all the daylight hours whilst working as decreed in the faith and not work after sunset due to prayer.
If they do, how are the working hours covered by the supposedly under staffed NHS workforce that we consistently hear about ?

Next; Are female Muslim doctors allowed to examine non Muslim male patients in certain areas of the body and are male Muslim doctors allowed to examine non Muslim female patients, the same way or do they just not examine anymore ?

I'll answer as best as i can.
1) some dr's do fast in the daylight while others don't. It's their 'choice' at the end of the day really (i say choice because theyre not being physocally forced to eat or not eat)
2) again some work the night shift while others dont. The nhs doesnt give any special time off based on religion, if you want the time off you apply for it as annual leave like you would any other holiday. Its almost the same as asking a catholic to work on a sunday. If they didn't want to for religious reasons they have to take leave they won't just gwt it no matter how loud they stamp their feet.
3)i can't answer the examination one. I work in mental health and have no experience in the physical health side. But as far as mental health examinations go, its business as usual, female dr's examine both males and females and male dr's do the same. There are one or two stat exemptions such as if a patient has requested a male/female dr then we try our best but generally it's a case of everyone sees everyone.

The answer i guess is no to female muslim doctors to examine non muslim males.maybe we should get hold a koran{bible for muslim faith}and educate ourselfs in there beliefs.
If anyone watched eastenders for the past 2 weeks it was all about Rammadam and the muslim faith.
Bottom line is most female patients will prefer a female doctor to examine them dont matter what ethnic background .

Thanks j-demo.

Snowy your point would bring the word 'diversity' into play for all of us. Meaning that each one of us different but equal at the same time. It doesn't seem to apply in practice though.

David Cameron's warning today is quite severe and to put some things into an understanding, this little snippet is taken from a very large article I read yesterday from a publication written by a charity operating in Syria, Iraq and other places.

How far along the bumpy road we are in this country, who knows but whatever we think, or would like to believe, with all due respects, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors and neither do our Muslim population ,in many cases.

"Many conferences were held in the 1980's (often with Saudi funding) to discuss the weakness of the Muslim umma. At these conferences-which remained largely unnoticed by western observers-the ideas of Islamization was introduced as the solution. It was argued that Muslims must resist Western cultural influences, cast off defeatist attitudes and adopt instead the belligerence of Muhammad in Medina. Muslims must regain their self -confidence, affirming that they are different from the rest of the world. The umma will then be strong and united once more and Islam will regain its ancient power and glory.

London -based Muslim Institute says "God is one, the Prophet is one, the ummah-the international Muslim community -is one". Hence the virtually universal belief amongst Muslims that they must support each other against non-Muslims, in spite of internal differences , that they are to be subordinate to those of the umma. The individual's needs and desires are to be subordinate to those of the umma.
While there is much variety in Islam, there seems to be a majority consensuses that the umma deserves the primary loyalty of all Muslims. For many Muslims, loyalty to the umma overrides loyalty to any nation state . Islamists utilise the umma concept to develope the idea of Muslims everywhere as global victims. They encourage Muslims to see themselves as a vulnerable and besieged community as they were under Muhammed's leadership in Mecca before the migration to Medina. Having developed a sense of victimhood they can present Islamist violence as a liberation struggle and thus strengthen Muslim group identity."


-------------
So it would seem we have modern day practising Muslims alongside medieval practising Muslims. The Christians did at least leave the Crusades behind

....and regain it's former power and glory. That says it all and it's happening under our noses and yet we have people who are apologists for them. It's our grandkids who'll be the inheritors of the gross errors being made now. All the usual suspects on here making excuses for them. They're twisted and want to go back to medieval times, they say so themselves. If you're happy to do that then pack your bags and bog off to the ME. If you'd rather stay and improve things, which has been happening for a long time in UK, then at least speak against the atrocities instead of telling us how good these people are, they won't speak up. Don't forget that we are where we are in terms of development as a result of having to go through all the traumas historically ourselves, but we're learning from past errors I should hope. for the record I don't give a monkeys toss what they do at their medicals.

When they apply for citizenship they sign the following



They also take the following pledge



This is an implied denouncement of other loyalties, the US has a more direct denouncement they sign.

Interesting that someone that is born here doesn't sign or pledge anything.

Its ummah not umma.

Is it ? Umma was an Empire in the Middle East and is also a political party, so as I only copied (typed) the transcript, I can't argue with it .

umma is used in the name numerous political parties but only at a national level and is also still a place name.

As soon as it is referring to Muslims/Islamics globally it should be ummah which is either a shortening of "Ummah Wāhidah" (the Islamic people) or the synonym of "ummat al-Islamiyah" (the Islamic nation). Strictly ummah by itself does not not identify muslim or islamic and just means group, nation, community etc but the context is often taken as being Islamic unless there is specific inference elsewise.

Apply to 'Wirral Change'- request a place on a Cultural Awareness course.The level of ignorance on this thread astounds me.

Me???

No.

Me then ? Sorry to disappoint Rude, but what exactly is 'Cultural Awareness' ? A few pointers might be helpful.

It could be me Granny. Kettles, pots and black accoutrements come to mind Ah well.

Could be anyone of us Bandy.....but we have no real guidance do we ? Only placards that say nothing.

Have a read of this topic, which actually touched on the same issues a while back.
Interesting to see comments in hindsight. For example, it will never happen here because the UK only has 5% of Muslims.etc. , and we are all racists and bigots. Wondering if the same views have change rapidly over the last week, including figures given last night of the almost certain number of Muslims who have joined jihad from this country is now 2000.

https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/928817/1.html

j_demo - said

"just because less than 1% of muslims are on some sort of jihad against "the west" that doesn't mean ALL of them are."

Curious where this figure is from. Im puzzled as to how we could possibly know how many are jihadists ?

Someone else (Granny maybe? ) mentioned a figure someone else had said about there only being 5% Muslim population here.

It struck me if both those figures WERE on track , that would mean towards a FIFTH of all Muslims were a threat ??
I dont believe we have any idea of what we are truly facing , we dont even know how many illegals are in the flipping country.

http://myjihad.org/

Some of you may like this page

bloody good read

less than 1% of muslims worldwide...

And given the uk population is ~65million, 5% of that is 3.25million are muslim, 1% of that is 32,500 so it's a bit less than the 812,500 you seem so suggest

I prefer your reviewed figures -although still unpalatable, but I still think we cant have any idea of what % of muslims are a threat , ones who are here legally are hardly going to admit any jhadist tendencies and amongst our illegal immigrants ,thanks to our incompetant immigration dept we have no idea at all WHO is here, let alone if they are jhadists.

J-demo Could you do some more number crunching for me as I am struggling to interpret what you are saying.
I don"t know the World wide figures for the death toll caused by these cretins. But what I do know less people in the West and of Western origins have died due to these loonies. I should imagine the African death toll alone will be more than The West.
How can we say the jihad is against "The West", perhaps when I see it in figures and % I will understand a bit better.I believe what is going on is a jihad against all humanity.

I don't think non-muslim nations are in a position to criticise anyone else for the quantity of deaths.

210,000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan.

How much money is spent on the development of lethal weapons, how much money is spent on the development on non-lethal weapons?

It doesn't really matter what figures you quote. If you or one of your own becomes a victim the figures become meaningless. They have a medieval mind set and that's all there is to it, you can dress it up as religion any way you want. It still boils down to the fact that they are unrequited killers, devoid of any humanity.

Two brothers from Sousse left messages and placed flowers during a gathering at the scene of Friday's shooting attack. The message they left was "We are sorry." They came out to show their respects, dressed in Islamic clothing to show the real etiquette of Muslims: Kindness, respect and peace. May Allah reward them.

.

I doubt they are your words, but it is remarkable how arrogant certain people are.

How many Tunisians have you met Rude ? They are an extremely nice people and if others referred to them by their nationality rather than " Muslims who come out to show respect, dressed in Islamic clothing".....it sounds very rude with a large dollop of racism on the top. They are of course in their own country, why wouldn't they wear their normal clothing ?

Rude you have found a picture of two Muslim men, TWO ! hardly an outcry of people speaking out against what their people are doing. Also your poster bearing the word RACISTS is offensive, we are all just sick of the mindless violence. I am in no way racist. Killing innocent people on a beach for your beliefs is RACIST.

Two or three 'extremists' do not represent the Muslim peeps either?

You are a lot younger than me Rude so I hope you don't live to regret your support for these PEEPS, but my guess is you will.

Dilly, why would we regret our support/rational thinking towards an entire religiin?

Also you say killing people on a beach for religion is racist, no that's not racist, that's what's known as stupidity. Racism is saying that ALL muslims are not to be trusted.

.

they've decapitated two women for "sorcery". Justify that one then.

You need to watch you don't get labelled as a racist Bandy by some snotty nosed kid.

Not quite the wording I'd choose but I agree with the sentiments.

Globalisation comes out of greed for more profits, not for the furtherance of the human race as some would like to state.

But globalisation doesn't make allowances for different morals, laws, ethics, economy, development etc of different cultures.

As an analogy, how about putting goldfish and piranha in the same tank.

You can excuse them all you want with your left wing flim-flam but it won't wash with me matey.

No excuses were given, in fact I was allocating blame and agreeing with your viewpoint.

No, you went on the "globalisation" rant. You know I don't agree with that analysis.

They are a different culture, globalisation brings cultures together.

Surely that is fact?

Globalisation is caused by greed for profit.

Surely that is fact? Or is it one of those right wing things that is true but nobody is supposed to state it?

We're opposite polarities. I'm going to leave it at that and bog off.

I've yet to meet anyone since 1979 that can say anything positive about right wing principles. They usually start bashing the Labour party (which is hardly left of centre anyway) and end by extolling the virtues of greed.

There are many left wing principles I disagree with but I fail to find any uniquely right wing principles I can agree with - and nobody seems to be able to provide any.

This is the sort of thing which dismays me. It may not happen, but in times of such turbulence, why even consider putting this on display if it is as they say ?

I imagine that Birmingham will become a place of 'Homage' and the Muslim world will come in droves from every corner of the world ! When security is so high, how can anyone even suggest another mad hatter idea ? It could have been kept quiet in the vaults for a few more decades, I would have thought.

It's also strange how they can make a public announcement about this earliest carbon dated specimen of the Quran, but for some reason, the Turin Shroud has never been given the all clear for results of carbon dating. It seems to constantly change.
There again, nobody has ever been able to deny it either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33436021

Got to laugh at your poster Rude, last I heard the National Blood Transfusion service was crying out for donors from Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic communities, are you limping?