£20 To See your Doctor in the evenings,
is what doctors are demanding to see patients in the evenings or weekends?

Would you pay for an evening / weekend appointment?

not unless it was urgent, and even then I'd probably go to A&E or the Walk-in instead lol

I dunno if I would pay unless it was urgent, but it would sure make people think twice about wasting GP's time going for stupid things like sore throats and bruises etc!

Im all for the idea!

I can see both sides of this, sure theres the NHS, which we pay tax for, so why should we pay to see our doctor....

...but, I get paid for working evenings / nights / for my overtime, so why shouldnt doctors.

In all fairness there are, as Joe mentioned, Walk in clinics which can be used.

The should make all the doleies pay for going during the day and make it free to the tax payers that keep them in jobs.

Thinking about it, if your doctors was open evenings and weekends it would be so over subscribed, you would end up
were you started.

I think the scheme may have legs if evening appointments
were available to employed people.

I dont mean that in an offencive way, just puerly
on the grounds that, time off work costs money.

And if the unemployed were to use the evening weekends
the service would come to a hault.

So i guess if it came into force the £20 is the easiest
way to filter out the employed and unemployed.

If that happens my doctor best put a telly in the waiting room.

It won't necessarily filter out the employed and unemployed.

It would probably be the difference between the rich and the poor.

What about people who are employed and work all the hours they can, yet are on a shit wage?

Its just tough luck then isnt it.

Make them think twice about going for stupid and pointless things. I know if I was doing a day job, then I would want extra money to work overtime, just like anyone would.

Why should a GP be expected to work all the hours god sends and not get anything extra? Also, if you are poorly enough or have a concern that is bad enough to warrant a visit to the quacks, then ye would surely take a morning off work to visit them. Or of course, as you have mentioned, go to the NHS walk in centres.

Its just common sense really, and in this country people have a massive problem with going for totally stupid things.

So the poor loose out because they can't afford it?

What if it's not pointless?

Then if its not pointless, they go to a walk in centre or wait till the next morning. And most urgent things are actually better suited to A&E rather then a GP.

There no point going to see a GP if you think you may have broken your leg, in the same way as there is no point going to see a GP at the first sign of a normal common cold (if you have had it for a week then fair enough its something you consider).

And there is always the option of taking morning appointments instead, which if you have a valid reason for going to the doctors, your employer can't really punish you for, although they may expect you to make up the time to do so.

Been there joe,
Its horrible, you cant take the time off as you cant afford to loose money from your pay packet.


A Mortgage will change that opinion. That's if you ever get one.
And some employers just don't play ball.

A mortgage won't change my opinion - I would probably actually be paying about the same amount on a mortgage if I were to purchase my flat as I do in rent, so I don't understand your point, renting is just as high as mortgages nowadays (in many cases its more expensive to rent then buy) - if someone has a medical reason for taking time off work, then under todays laws the employer can't prevent you or discipline you for taking time off work for medical appointments.

The rate people spend money in this country I can't see £20 being an issue - the only reason why people dont like it is cos they arnt getting something physical or even something virtual.

If someone said to you, yeah we give you drugs for £20 that will give you peace of mind for something, then everyone would be okay with, but because they are only getting a consultation for the cost, people are against it.

Funny how everyone is against paying £20.00 once in a blue moon when it comes to their HEALTH yet most people can still afford their fags and booze and petrol and stupid organic foods and brand names which amount to a LOT more cost without worry.

I think its a case of people getting their priorities right to be honest, and if something is that important to us, we always find the money. Our health is important to us, so we will find the money.

And as already stated in this thread, there are plenty of other free options to consider such as morning appointments, NHS walk-in centres, NHS Direct and Accident & Emergency.

so why not just retract the £20 service althogether?
If there are so many other free options available to everyone?

Why should people who can afford it, be better off than those who can't?

Its not really a case of being better off to be honest Joe, its a case of people who want to be see at certain times paying the extra to be seen.

Just like in many walks of life, we get so much for free, and then we pay for extra. The free services are available, but for those who want a little bit extra, more flexibility, they pay that little bit extra and get the extra service.

I have a personal bank account with the HSBC. It costs me nothing to have, no monthly or annual fee's and no commitments. However, they also offer extra services like Bank Account plus, which has many bonuses and more flexibility for those who want to pay the extra £10 per month for it.

Back to the NHS, there are waiting lists for operations that can be upto 18 months long. But for those who can afford it, they choose to go private or even "part-private" where the NHS subsidises some of the cost of their treatment and they get treated surgically within 3 months. This doesnt mean the ones who can't afford it can't have it, it just means they have to wait longer.

Of course there are a lot more examples in the field of health such as drugs that are not NHS approved or too expensive for the NHS where people who can afford them can get access to them and those who can't afford them can't have them at all.

Id say this £20.00 system is pretty fair.

Look at dentists, there are loads of semi-private dentists, who still see NHS patients, albeit on a more restricted service and timetable. For the patients who can't afford to pay for private care, they get the same treatment, but with less priority, whereas those who can afford to pay the little extra, recieve a priority service.

There is a time in everyone's life that they find hard times,
be it there fault or not.

You havn't experienced that yet, hence your comments and point of view. Maybe with a few more years behind you, you will mature into a more objective point of view.

Where its not always someone's fault there in the position there in.




Apprenticeships?
Training
Armed Forces (TA)
Nurses

"Tough Luck" Just shows how in experienced of life you really are. Maybe you have been "Lucky" up to now. I hope you have.

yes, you pay extra for an extra service, but as you said, this is our HEALTH we're talking about.

I don't think it should come down to how much you earn, but as you did mention, perhaps it should apply more to employed and unemployed, with the employed being offered the service and those on the dole not. However, it still doesn't solve the problem that the lower paid workers will have less of an advantage of the service if they cannot afford it.

My point exactly - and thats only a shortlist

Well if and when the idea does come into frutation, we will have no choice.

I don't know if you are both missing my points about things like dentists and waiting lists, or whether you are choosing not take them into account, but they are very valid. And I dont really see anyone kicking up a fuss about them either, even though they are essentially the same.

And dont make me laugh nurses have no money lol Mark, true they are lower paid then the likes of police etc, but man my mum and all her best mates are nurses, and whilst they are always moaning about being underpaid, they always seem to have money free-flowing.

A lot of my mums collegues are on in excess of £20,000 a year, which is above the national average wage, they may cry poverty but in reality there is very few nurses who actually are in poverty. Most are on more then me after my higher rate of taxation (and because I fooked up me tax last year).

And what we also have to realise, is the measly amount we pay in NHS contributions (I think mine is along the lines of £13 a month) we get a hell of a lot more then we actually pay in. We pay a tiny amount and expect the earth from the NHS imho.

Dont forget though, its not compramising any current services - its an extra service.

If current NHS services suffered for the change, then I belive it would be unfair, ie the rich / poor devide. As it is an extra service, and doctors would be working overtime, I belive it may be a fair solution, and maybe better in the way that those willing to pay the £20 may reduce the load / waiting times at A&E and Hospital walk in centers.

The point were getting over to you is that to say "tough luck"
makes me personally angry.

You havent a clue about life or you wouldn't say what you said "Tough Luck"

That's why i have to dismiss your views on this subject,
you obviously have the knowledge but not the life experience of life.

I'm not missing your point about dentists - I'm on a low wage and I struggle to find the money to get a £15 (if not more if I need work done) checkup once evry 6 months.

I don't agree with going private. Wealthier people are usually in better health than those who are poor. So why can't people who are in worse health get treatment quicker?

Because they can't afford it. People are almost penilised on their health because they're poor. It's wrong.

I know it's not as extreme, but it's just like saying it's tough shit for poor people who live in poor countries who can't afford treatment, just let em die.

I forgot nobody knows anything or has a valid opinion on anything unless they are over a certain age - this is the biggest problem with the UK imho.

And you know what the funniest thing is Mark, its the doctors and unions and government who have conceived this plan, and the vast majority of who are all old then even yourself.

Joe, you may struggle to find the £15, I struggle to find money for my dental treatment (im fully private atm cos I have had bad experiences with NHS dentists and hate the waiting times), but what I do is make some sacrifices when I need treatment to pay for it. I think my last dental bill, which included 3 appointments and a new crown amounted to around £280. That was a lot of money, I had to make a lot of sacrifices. I need a filling to replace a temporary one put in last year, its going to cost around £120, I can't afford it atm because I have no care to afford for it, but when I need it, I will cut back on spending on luxuries to ensure I can afford it.

In the month either before or after I need to pay for dental treatment, I tend to use my car less, I cut back on luxury items, I am more careful with my money, basically, I save money in whatever way I can to ensure I can afford the treatment. It's a bitch, but its the only way, as I too am by no means "rich".

Nobody will be penalised for not being "rich", as Stuy says, the services will all still be available for everyone for free, just at slightly less flexible hours unless the person wants to pay the extra fee to be seen at certain times.

Nobody will suddenly lose access to their GP or medical care in general, if anything it will improve things for those who want to pay and may improve things in general as it will make people think twice about going to the GP for stupid things like colds and sore throats, which a LOT of people.

What about people who can barely afford to drive just to get to and from work (or cant even afford it at all)?

And what if luxury items don't exist for poorer people? People barely able to get food and keep a roof over their heads?




But it won't stop these people will it? They will still be able to do it during normal hours.

I can see your point, it's an extra service ontop of the free one available. So those who want it, should pay for it out of their own pocket.

But I'm just basically saying those who cannot afford it, or stuggle to afford it don't really have this extra service available because so.

Lol, well as stated and agreed by Stuy, they will be able to visit their GP in the morning instead and/or use any of the other services freely available to them and everyone else instead.

GP's actually give up a lot of time with thier families working most nights until 8pm, I can see why they feel they should be getting extra. And there are plenty of alterntatives for them people who can't afford it.

Whether we like it or not, this country and the people in the medical profession is "having
" to move towards a more tiered system, and eventually to a system which will closely resemble private care.

Its a LONG way off, but changes like these will come and are needed to sustain the NHS in its current form. The other alternative is for GP's to just stop working during these hours, and then it means nobody can be seen, no matter how important it is - and that wouldnt be a good thing, not least for the fact the strain on the morning surgeries would go through the roof.

Maybe you should cut down on fizzy drinks and sweets. That is a massive amount of money for teeth.

I thought the national minimum wage was £25k'ish?

Average wage is £18,000 per year, dunno where you got £25,000 from lol, most people wish

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

Uk average of £25k

The average for round here is £22k

£18k jobs are relativly easy to come by, doesn't take much to find one, even with not many skills.

Looooool if you expect me to believe that the average wage is £2,000 per month ye got another thing coming - I know VERY few people who earn that much, up and down the country.

Don't believe government statistics, they are always painted up to look rosey and with loads of spin added.

The first problem we have for most people, is that after taxation of ~20% is taken into account, the wages are quite heavily impacted upon. The second problem of course is that the average includes everyone wages, from Joe Bloggs down the road on £120.00 a week after tax to city execs and high flyers on £6,000 a week to Steven Gerrard on £120,000 a week before tax.

According to BBC money program, after taxation (without considering VAT is added on top of everything we buy in the EU) the national average take home pay is in the region of £18,000 per year, which amounts to around £1500 per month, which is still pretty steep, again these numbers are impacted upon by a very small minority earning ludacris amounts and dont truely represent the actual averaye workers take home pay.

If everyone was taking home £2,000 per month, then nobody would be complaining about bill's as everyone would be rolling in money (there is many double working parent families who take less then £2500 per month home and struggling with kids, if they were taking home £4000 im pretty sure they would be fine).

Ya bet ya life Alistair Campbell had summit to do with them statistics lol.

So, if i am taking home 18k a year, I assume in your language that means after tax. So before tax that is nearly £25k a year.

I could send out my CV today, have an interview tomorrow and be offered a job on Friday for £18k a year without to much problem, I don't have any special qualifications.

Most of my friends, family and colleagues are on more than £18k a year. Most people i know would be unable to afford a mortgage and a 3 bed semi unless they were on at least £20k a year.

The police starting wage is £21k a year.

I think you are talking rubbish, to be fair.

As I say, I know very people, up and down the country, who earn £25,000 after tax (im talking from general friends and family here rather then business contacts). Sure, I know people who earn £30,000 a year+, but the vast majority earn less then £20,000.

Even some of the higher paid people I know only take home around the £1700 per month level after taxation, which is only around £20,400 per annum, a whole lot different then £25,000.

If you want to believe the average person is earning £25,000 and that anyone can just walk into a job with the pay of a minimum of £18,000 per year, thats fair enough, its down to your own blindness and unwillingness to see whats in the real world, but personally I like to see true figures (such as those with after taxation etc) rather then what the government spin to me.

And if you even had a clue about business and economics, you would understand that an average double income amounting to £35,000 can very easily afford a property worth in the region of upto £200,000 given todays borrowing market and the BOE base lending rates. Which kind of proves to me you don't have much of an idea about economics and the economy in general, except what the government tell you (and we all know from past experience how truthful they are...).

Now I could become really technical here and add on the cost of taxation from things such as the 5% utility tax and 17.5% VAT, but I wont.

The difference is that you are talking after tax and i am talking before tax.

So you getting on your high horse and acting like you know more than anyone about anything is totally irrelevant.

If someone was to ask me what my wages are, i would say what i earn before tax (which is what most people i know would do)

The Average person earns £25k'ish before tax OR in your terms £18750 after tax.

So in effect, we are both right, just got wires crossed.

Aye now ye put it like that we are both right. I wasnt sure you meant before taxation, thats why I came back with that.

I suppose its cos with owning a business I always account net profit as opposed to gross profit as my wages. My business advisor always tells me to ignore my gross profit and concentrate on what my net profit is. So I look at wages in this way (be it correctly/incorrectly) as well.

To me, a wage is what you take home and can spend, ye can't spend ye tax as the government does it for ye. I guess I just look at it differently from a lot of people, maybe with a more conservative view then most people??

But then, this formula is often used in the media (newspapers, television etc) as well, so it can't be toooooooo bad lol.

I know this is continuing off topic, but....



Please - Tell me where I can find them!!!

I have a full range of great qualifications (from GCSE's, A-Levels, NVQ Level 3's, BTEC and doing a HNC atm) and struggle to find jobs anywhere near that range without having to become even more qualified by paying for more courses!

What is it you want to do?