Absolutely incredible support for Corbyn at the Labour Party Conference, the solidarity among party members is amazing.

Of course the media portray it negatively.

Just 5 billionaires control 80% of the WORLD's media and they donate to the Tories and do not pay UK tax. They have also done the same hatchet job to numerous other Country's left wing parties as they have here.

i

The same 80% don't report on what goes on in Palestine, or anything that is anti- Israel . Neither do they report on the truth of Middle East about the real problems, and it is know that anything pro Arab has been removed on many occasions from places like Facebook, You Tube and others,.but they will report on anti- Semitism. In fact I was under the impression it was 95% of the worlds media.
This is why we all get fed wrong information, or no information unless it has a bias in one way. The truth is not allowed to be viewed or understood and brainwashing the public into believing what the media and Governments want us to, has been apparent for a very long time.
Independent reports are dismissed, which is exactly what this guy says . "Why don't the media come and report it ,see for themselves" ?

But that would ruin the plan to topple Assad by the West on behalf of Israel . The horrible 'butcher Assad' as he is referred to by the US, but his people want Assad to stay for them. Two extremely different points of view.
The White Helmets who won the prestigious Nobel award for peace ! The Syrians know the WH are responsible for fake footage on chemical attacks. Who listens to the Syrians though ? They are unreported or debunked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGXAGlo2IpA

Everything is propaganda in favour of Israel, and manipulation as in the pressure brought against Corbyn. I don't like his politics much but there was a concerted effort to either unseat him, or to force the whole Labour party to collapse. I don't believe it was anything to do with the Tories, his own MP were raising the anti-Semitic against him points mostly from the Friends of Israel movement. For stupid MP's to be bringing up point scoring issues from 6/7/8 plus years ago against him, just shows how contrived it has all been. They must have spent hours scouring the internet to find suitable examples.
I think it was a wider issue, and a last ditch attempt to manipulate a situation to keep us in Europe by foul means .
New World Order ? More control by the 95% ?

I wasn't going to get involved in all this politics talk again because I was frankly quite sick of the lot of them but every time I've switched tv on JC smarmy face greets me obv because of the conference going on in Liverpool..I've listened and watched but nothing warms me to him at all and all this monmentum tosh or whatever it is gives me visions of Derek Hatton and his militants mob.
I'm sorry if I offend all you Corbyn supporters but whether labour agrees or not people are allowed to disagree with your views and shouldn't have to leave their jobs as some have done apparently.

As for brexit if it's going to happen( which I have my doubts) I wish it would hurry up and get on with it!! Those EU Tusk and co are trying every truck in the book and personally I think they are terrified if it collapsing and their little cash cow drying up. I will admit I voted to stay in because of the jobs situation and that is a worry, I think the government should make it tempting and worthwhile for companies to stay with us . I'd love to see us do really well and wipe the smirks off theses EU Morons. All just my opinions....

Corbyn has always been a leaver.

I think he'll find it hard to lead the party if it decides to campaign for abandoning brexit and staying in, although I think it would be a good move if the party did just that.

Not a special fan of Mrs May or any current leaders for that matter , but if the vast majority of people - both public and politicians , who like to think they live in a democratic country , had just accepted the 'leave' decision and got wholeheartedly behind Mrs May from the day after- if the whole country had supported her in front of Europe and made a concerted effort to do crack on with the leave decision and make it work the best it can for GB, we might not now be staring into such a deep and humiliating abyss. She has faced nothing but deceit, treachery, disloyalty and back stabbing since the results .

Still waiting for May to appear in public in the UK.

I can't really hold May responsible for the current grotesque cock up we find ourselves in. There are so many irresolvable contradictions in leaving that I don't believe anyone could do it.

It was a very stupid thing to do, and whatever you do after that is not going to make it a clever one.

If anyone is to blame it is the rabble-rousers in the brexit movement. Not for supporting leave, and not even for doing it by lying and playing fast and loose with the facts, persuading people that real problems were 'project fear' etc. No the real thing they should take responsibility for is taking the country into such a move without doing careful preparation - beforehand - as to how to go about it, how to resolve the problems, and basically by not doing their homework.

The result is that after years of wittering we have no agreement with the EU worth a bucket of warm spit, and may well crash out losing at a stroke a great deal of trade, the very profitable city of London, and a long list of major businesses transferring to the continent.

That is what I find difficult to grasp. Corbyn was always a 'leaver' and yet the majority of Merseyside, who are Labour supporters, voted to remain. Now they think they can change his tactics for a 'peoples vote' but that is not from the Leader they so revere.

I agree with Venice, but we also are having to contend with intervention from the likes of George Soros and Gina Miller, who was a Labour supporter and has now opted for Liberal Democrats ( has declined the position of Lib/Dem leader) and formed Best For Britain in 2017. Far too many wheels in motion all chatting away to EU leaders on different issues and putting their oars in until everything is last minute. Then there will be an uproar. Biding their time in the hope of another referendum and attaining the result they would be happy with, in my opinion ,will bring mayhem on the streets of this country. It is clear that many no longer adhere to the democratic vote, so what comes next ?.

Only 3 out of 8 Councils areas in Merseyside voted to remain.

Corbyn has said he will go with a democratic decision, if another referendum is democratically decided, he will agree to it.

It is such a mess now, some people would vote to remain purely because they don't trust what May will land us with even though they still despise the EU.

A referendum to agree the final deal would be pointless it would always go against the deal (or no deal), its going to be a compromise, its not going to please anybody in the UK.

Rather than give away too much I'm all for a no deal on the assumption that there will probably be a patchwork of separate EU/UK agreements put together rather than one deal. I really can't believe that come the crunch the EU won't go along with a free trade agreement of some sort.

The EU is desperate for money to hold it together, the only thing holding the EU together is bribes in one form or another. The loss of the UK (being a major lifetime net contributor) is a massive hit to the EU finances before you even start looking at trade. The EU project has failed, the distribution of money has never brought about the required outcomes of creating more net contributors, the Euro project has made this even worse.

Ireland is a claimed success but in reality it is being propped up by American money as much the EU, Ireland has a $40bn trade surplus with America, the overall trade surplus of Ireland is a tenth of that and many American companies operate in Ireland.

Three out of six councils voted to remain, DD. My error, I thought all but one had.

Damn right they want our money, and every time another country joins the EU they will demand more to bolster the development of another cousin, whilst continuing to keep control over each of the already individual member state countries. Control of ability to raise wages, controls on benefits, housing and infrastructure... They take our money and then tell us how and where to spend what comes back again. Great idea until it starts to crack with carrying too many passengers to a better life, because those countries can't make their own way. Divide all our industries up, which in all honesty, there can't be too many more industries they can transfer to these new countries in the attempt to make them successful nations within the EU. With the high unemployment in the southern European countries , one has to wonder how we managed to fair so well because we wouldn't next time around. If we stayed in the EU, within a short period of time, we would have the euro as currency... meaning locked in for ever, just like Ireland. How many billions, and why would US be doing that ?

How many Labour supporters have never done a tap? Just wondering.

Quite a few because the Labour party has far more disabled members than all the rest of the other parties together.

Of course the Tories don't give a toss about those that aren't slaves to their money making schemes hence 40 year old Downes syndrome people getting challenged regularly on their disability or people dying within two weeks of being assessed as capable of work.

Most working people are slaves, they do not receive a reasonable return for their work.

And if you don't agree with benefits and think they are a left-wing thing, how can you explain the right-wing parties wanting to bring in Universal Basic Income?

And there are far more people in work that fiddle benefits and tax than those that claim for unemployment and that costs us far more money than the few unemployed people.

Are you going to tell us "They need us more than we need them" again DD? We've all heard THAT one before!

I'm quite sure they can tolerate losing us quite well. Remember they will receive money on tariffs from what we export to them. And any losses will be spread over 27 nations not one. With a population seven times ours, the effect of the UK's departure will hardly be felt.

I wonder if anyone is going to stockpile food in case we have a hard brexit? We certainly will. It will help if there are shortages and if not will save us shopping for a week or two so there is no downside.

Can anyone tell me exactly what the intentions are of Labour. One says, a referendum, one says a peoples vote on the final deal, one says a general election, one says it's all in the mix . John McDonnell has come out with some astonishing intentions, with regard to re-nationalisation of just about every industry.

First and foremost, plans for re-nationalisation of railways, water, postal services, etc.etc. is not going to happen if another referendum brings a majority for remaining in the EU. John McDonnell says they intend to be in Government for the next 15yrs once elected. Does that mean they will bring about constitutional change with regard to democracy also ? Dangerous people.

No, the losses cannot simply be divided over 27 nations. The simple solution would be that net-contributors pay more and net-recipients receive less but politically that would not work. Germany is already at a civil breaking point as to how much they prop up the EU.

There are only three major net contributors to the EU and they are losing one of them, I haven't got the figures to hand but its probably something around 20% of the money they can spend to prop up the net-recipients. Most countries in the EU are net-recipients, that money comes from the net contributors.

Its the net figures that matter and its very rare you will find these quoted correctly and in a manner that shows the amount of net-contributions and net-receipts. What I want to see is our percentage of the total of net contributions (which I guessed at 20% above).

They're all professional fence sitters, happy to dictate from the sidelines.

They also claim the're totally unified unlike the Tories, yet John McDonnell says different. They're not unified in the slightest. They've got pro and anti Corbyn splits as well as the Brexit / Remain split.

But it all fun and games at the conference. Not only do we have speakers addressing the audience as "Comrades", but a teacher or TA (jury is out which he is) talking about not having any Tories in the future because "we'll have brought up our kids properly."

https://order-order.com/2018/09/24/teacher-labour-conference-teach-children-not-tories/

Except he isn't a teacher or TA. Sion Rickard has now deleted his twitter account. There was nothing on there or his LinkedIn account about him being a teacher. His twitter account said he was an actor and musician.

And we have Dawn Butler - famous for accusing Costa of paying no tax, and accusing Jamie Oliver of cultural appropriation while at the same time dressing up herself in Indian costume or wearing tartan - giving glowing tributes to the law breaking militants in Liverpool in the 80s.

https://news.sky.com/story/dawn-but...bute-at-labour-party-conference-11506084

Bull droppings.

What a heap of jokers. I see today on Politics Live (BBC) that they have had a little cake competition(as has the Independent) on which woman would be the next /best leader of the Labour Party. Choice between Angela (gobby) Rayner, Emily (sly eyes) Thornbury or Rebecca (stop for breath) Long-Bailey. Seems Jeremy must be getting ousted sooner rather than later.

Also, the Mayor of Manchester, and the Mayor of Liverpool have not been given the podium this year. How ironic !
Keir Starmer going off script (he's a double sided coin too )
Dawn Butler is there to cause trouble. Born in London and basically a babe in arms when Militant Tendency were reaping havoc in Liverpool. I bet she supported the Toxteth riots too whilst wearing her school uniform.

Some interesting comments on here from Labour voters or Labour voters from the past.

A Vote Leave site.:

https://www.facebook.com/euIVotedLeave/?tn-str=k*F

If they get rid of Corbyn they would have mass resignations from the party and very few votes unless one of the other left wing oldies took over eg livingstone, McCluskey, Galloway with Corbyn’s blessing.

I’d like to know anything Corbyn has said wrong since he has been leader, most of what he has said is basic morality, something that is totally lacking throughout the Tory party who generally represent greed and selfishness. Even some hard line tories are getting ashamed at some of the inhumane and immoral things that have gone on but of course there is a possibility of a snap election so they often switch into softer talk through their lying teeth.

Corbyn doesnt have to say anything "wrong" as he is in opposition just quietly playing the waiting game. He was playing the politician today when he wouldnt answer a direct question about how he would vote today Leave or Remain.

Of course he wouldn't answer it, its a trick question, both answers would be wrong and the media would have yet another field day.

If he was asked if he thought we should remain in Europe or leave Europe it would be lesser amount of a trap but the media would still abuse the response.

The original question was based on one that he refused multiple times to answer properly in August. That question was "Do you honestly believe that Britain is better off outside of the EU?". The answer is obvious nonsense because it was worded in the present tense and we aren't outside of the EU. If you assume the question was meant to be in the future tense, there is still no answer because it depends on the deal we get (something that Corbyn has no control or input to), a bad deal will be worse than staying in Europe, a good deal would be better than staying in Europe.

Looks like Corbyn is about to walk on water. This morning he's reported as going to create 400,000 green jobs. Does this mean we will all be colour coded eventually ? He's certainly got big ideas, and I wonder where all the money will come from.

He hasn't yet mentioned about overthrowing the Monarchy, but that's probably the first on the list.

The unfortunate thing for him is , he's a supporter of Venezuela's Maduro and his socialist ideals. However, it would seem that Venezuela is now bankrupt with inflation at 1,000,000 percent ! No one is running to help them either.

Mass resignations from who exactly? We're already had plenty of resignations under Corbyn, with more to come once Momentum continue working their way through who isn't 100% Corbyn.

"Left wing oldies" are NOT the future of the party. Learn a lesson from history when Labour were unelectable. Blair changed all that. Granted, towards the end with the financial crisis and the wars caused them to lose power and get a 5 year punishment. But aside from that, a modern centre left Labour party is what the country needs and wants.

But we're now nearly ten years on from that. Labour should be trouncing the Tories in the opinion polls but they're not, they can barely draw level.

I have no doubts Corbyn is a good man at heart, but he's a career backbencher, forced into leadership as a joke that's been taken too far. Politicians shouldn't be worshipped like Gods, like some people do with Corbyn.

There has been a handful of resignations so far from the 540,000 members, Labour is the biggest national political party in the EU.

Blair used left wing votes to get into parliament to create a right wing Government, that wasn't winning, that was fraud. Because of this it has taken time for left wing voters to trust the Labour party.

Corbyn and Momentum are centre left.

Centre Left ? think you are way off balance there.

Centre Left:-

"Those on the centre-left believe in working within the established systems to improve social justice. The centre-left promotes a degree of social equality that it believes is achievable through promoting equal opportunity. The centre-left has promoted luck egalitarianism, which emphasizes the achievement of equality requires personal responsibility in areas in control by the individual person through their abilities and talents as well as social responsibility in areas outside control by the individual person in their abilities or talents.

The centre-left opposes a wide gap between the rich and the poor and supports moderate measures to reduce the economic gap, such as a progressive income tax, laws prohibiting child labour, minimum wage laws, laws regulating working conditions, limits on working hours and laws to ensure the workers' right to organize. The centre-left typically claims that complete equality of outcome is not possible, but instead that equal opportunity improves a degree of equality of outcome in society."

equality.............but not if you've tried to better yourself and get on in life!

We should be helping the needy yes, that's a given (the true needy that is, a helping hand to those who have lost there way or are in times of difficulty, have a disability that requires assistance)

But why do we insist on penalising those who strive to do more earn more to better their quality of life and there families.

All this does is create a society that doesn't want or need to try harder and better themselves because the state will sort them out!

equality! hammer those blue-sky thinkers and make everyone the same, perhaps we should look at history and also nature. Having the same doesn't work, being the same doesn't work, equality yes but that doesn't mean penalise those who are different!

The so called labour party today are becoming more militant and authoritarian, they will fizzle out before the end of next year

Here here Stato....the resentment and comments towards people who on the most have got off their backsides and worked umpteen hours to get where they are and in doing so are employing people . Sure you get the bad ones but better to have a job any job than none at all. Make it hard for these companies etc and they definitely will move elsewhere.
There are changes to be made but don't chase the people with money away , I think that will be a very bad move. It would be great if we all had more money but as I've said before there will always be the have and have nots!

Agreeing with both Stato and Cools. Penalise the companies and they'll bugger off. Many major companies are foreign owned anyway or with multi nationals, how can that stupid idea of 10% for the workers be arranged ? Maybe they include the small privately owned double glazing business, or the local shoe shop. If not, then why should some sectors of the workers benefit and not others ?
It's all very well putting the 'shopping list' on the table, but how is it all going to be paid for. Unfortunately, he appeals to the many who feel a great sense of sour grapes against those who have more than them. That will always be the case in society. And when those who feel such great pangs of jealousy, and eventually have more than their neighbour, would they expect their neighbour to benefit from their own achievements ?
Corbyn, or McDonnell, need to be contained from this madness.... all I can see with their propositions is even more unemployment, poverty, depravation and a collapsed NHS.. All the things they profess to support.

Brian Monteith: Venezuela offers brutal warning over Corbyn’s Labour


As the economic and social collapse in Venezuela continues daily, the many politicians that hailed the country as an example of how socialism can work – and should provide a basis for policies here – refuse to recognise its tragic demise The rising evidence of a humanitarian crisis, based on facts that are beyond dispute, tells a shocking story of immense poverty where there was once general prosperity; of massive aggrandisement and corruption where there was once a functioning pluralist democracy; of the perversion of justice where there was once independent institutions and of depravity where there was once culture and civility.

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/brian...l-warning-over-corbyn-s-labour-1-4786567

It's being noted that articles have been removed from Corbyn's website since the appalling behaviour of the Government in Venezuela.

In 2015 he was praising it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150725...les/venezuela/

Now that article no longer exists:

http://jeremycorbyn.org.uk/articles/venezuela/

Is he - or someone in PR - trying to rewrite the Corbyn history?


Anyway, back to the conference,

I remember when party conferences were boring affairs where you'd get the odd quirk like a young William Hague talking, or Michael Heseltine hopping about on stage.

But now we have:

Dawn Butler praising the Trotskyist group Militant taking over Liverpool council and breaking the law
Threats of general strikes if Labour doesn't get their own way of an election
So-called teachers (was he an actor?) saying that we should be teaching children not to be Tories,
Palestinian flag waving,
Splits between speakers over Brexit and second referrendums.

They're certainly not doing much to make themselves look responsible and electable.

Dawn Butler quoted the phrase "Better to break the law than break the poor" which can be interpreted many ways, even in the worst case its only an age old moral dilemma - would you break the law to prevent someone dying? And yes, this Tory Government is causing a lot of people to die unnecessarily.

Threat of general strikes is nothing about "getting their own way", again its about morality, we have a completely immoral Government that need to be brought to task and treat people fairly not as disposable slaves and minions.

Nothing wrong with Palestinian flag waving, Israel needs to be brought to task.

Brexit has divided opinions across all political parties.

Chavez deserved praise for what he attempted (again a moral issues) .... "The Bolivarian revolution led by Chavez is rapidly changing things. The poorest do get food, can see a doctor thanks to Cuban help, and are able to get good education". Chavez was beaten by corruption as is the problem with many nations in the area, Bolivia although doing well is also about to be brought to its knees by corruption though may have the natural resources to ride it which Venezuela didn't.

Most of the current media would blame Jesus for killing fish.

"I remember when party conferences were boring affairs where you'd get the odd quirk like a young William Hague talking, or Michael Heseltine hopping about on stage."


Well that particular party still turns out boring affairs you will be very pleased to know. As for William Hague, the fresh faced young boy went on to be the monster that soaked Libya in blood and left it an ungovernable mess.

I work with 14 to 20 year olds and believe me not a single one of them would vote tory. So the age of the rotten party is drawing to a close kept afloat only by the support of an ageing group who hark for 'better days' when big houses had servants and who hope that brexit will bring back the days of glory and empire when the rich prospered and the poor suffered even worse than they do now.

That aint gonna happen any time now. The sun has set on the empire and the kids of today want a socialist state within Europe. Jeremy Corbyn might be the anti Christ to some but to the youth of today he is a saviour and he will be in Downing Street in 2019.

The kids of today have denounced the values of greed and cheating and oppression of the poor. They want equality, they want fairness, they want honesty in politicians, they want multiculturalism, they want an end to persecution and division.

It is becoming their world and they do not see Jeremy Corbyn as a dangerous radical, they see him as hope, light and the future.

The kids of today want everything, including their parents paying off their debts. Let's hope they will be able to do the same for their own children in years to come. Probably they won't , and neither will they have houses or inheritance to leave their kids. How very boring to leave behind a funeral bill instead.

Has anyone noticed that Corbyn is becoming more and more like a Cult leader, like one of the Religious groups that are fanatical in America. Just seeing pictures of him on the platform with his arms raised to an adoring hoard looked just like that. Is this the future ? Doesn't bear thinking about.

Ever heard of with age comes wisdom Susie? We live on planet Earth not Utopia so good luck with that one.

50 next year I think I am wise enough Cools and spending most of my youth in the care system has long ago killed any dreams of Utopia.

10/10 for geography though, we do live on planet earth, you did get that right at least! LOL!

I fail to see how fairness in government and equality are 'Utopia' to you.

Rather an odd logic I think.

However it is not what you think or I think that matters because the youth of today will be calling the tune at the next election. The tory dinosaur will give it's last odious gasp of rotten breath next year.

I for one will dance on it's grave.

I wasn't quite referring to yourself Susie , you mentioned 14 to 20 year olds thinking that Jeremy Corbyn is their saviour. He's promising so much that in my opionion can never be fulfilled by any party. I just wish I had faith in any of them at the moment but they're all failing . All fighting amongst themselves but feel sorry for May , who'd have her job with trying to get brexit done.
We will have to wait and see what happens in the future but I know JC wouldn't get my vote!

I have a daughter Susie who teaches children 14-18 yrs old. My daughter is Corbyn mad... thinks the sun shines out of his backside.
She earns good money by many standards, but like many teachers, she still seems to think she should be entitled to certain other things in life. At what point does this attitude stop and individuals realise that life is not a joy ride, never has been and never will be for the majority ? Only when we are grateful, do we appreciate how lucky we are in this country as opposed to many socialist countries world wide.
Socialism does not work in the world of globalisation, not unless we want to descend into poverty for the masses, and Corbyn's party is Socialist with a big fat S.

Solidarity amongst Labour Party Members, is simply a bit more 'gang culture' . They were in Liverpool , sing the rousing songs, patting each other on the backs... load of B shit IMO.

I hate that word Solidarity it's got a real communist ring about it.

Yes, I agree. He also is looking towards to an anti-capitalist society as he's already said so, which puts him in line with communism, not just socialism.
and.. for his MP's who support him, in an effort to hang on to positions i.e those who were also MP's in Blair Brown , Government then they should be ashamed of themselves. How can they be supporters of both when the politics are totally different ?
Not sure where you find your information about Venezuela DD, they have nothing, no food , no medicines, no health care, no money (it's not worth anything.) It's really bad there.

Socialism at it's best, after a few years.

1 Venezuelan Bolivar = 0.012 of a £ ...... then have a look at this link for their cost of living 2018.

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/venezuela

Granny we already have poverty for the masses. You are right though, Socialism does not work in the world of globalisation and that is why we need to rid ourselves of tyranny through globalisation. It is 100 years since the end of WW1 and the heroes returned not to the 'cottage, acre and a cow' promised by Lloyd George but to police baton charges, lock outs and poverty. It is 73 years since the heroes of another war returned not to a bright new world but to austerity until 1960 when they were told 'You have never had it so good!' (because you can afford a twin tub washing machine and a tv on HP).

What does the working person achieve today? If they are very, very lucky a modest little house paid off after a back breaking 30 years. The lucky ones may have a works pension to boost the starvation level Old Age pension. That is the peak of achievement for the masses but sadly the majority will not even achieve this. For them benefits and social housing are the future.

We are kidded there is no money just as we were kidded in the Depression there was no money and yet, as we suffer in silence while the rich party and there are more rich today than ever. It is a vile and unfair disparity and it needs to end.

Susie, in this country the word 'poverty' is used very liberally. There are those who are poor but get the benefits to assist.. Agreed there is not enough social housing, and that is on the cards to be remedied. Sooner rather than later, hopefully. Let's not forget which Government brought in the minimum wage that took away competition amongst companies to employ the best. They all took to minimum wage, re jiggled the job description and after a Labour Government's initiative of bringing in (at enormous cost) all over the country, the Job Evaluation Scheme which saw many jobs reduced in numbers,( mine for one) many jobs placed in a lower banding and many upgraded. Those upgraded which where the ones at the top of the pile anyway, got handsome amounts of back pay . At the same time Peter Mandelson publicly stated on TV that he had no objection to people being 'filth rich' . That is exactly what happened between 1997 and 2010 at a revolutionary rate , causing greater divides between the rich and the poor. and continues today, but it was the precious Labour Government that caused it.

Now I have to go out.. so I'll leave you all to it.. and don't talk about me behind my back, because I'll find out.

Well you may be right but one thing is certain we don't see adoring crowds at the Tory conference, we are a divided nation not just at borders, but North and South, we are not moving forward we are stepping back, the needless austerity has produced nothing of value only made the poor poorer, we are being led into a low wage economy with no workers rights or protection, the blueprint for a Tory Britain, with those least able paying for it, Remember on yer bike Tebbit, one of the first to jump on the privatisation band wagon, they are like vampires sucking the good and worth out of anything for profit.

Anything left of Attila the Hun is hard left and communist, full marks to the Tories for their expertise in propaganda.

Full marks to New Labour for their expertise in spin.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the parties went back to politics, truth and morality.

Nobody should have to beg for food, nobody should be without a decent roof over their heads and nobody should live in fear of crime.

Derek Hatton is back in the Labour Party !

.

.

Loaded statement, much? I notice you don't say where you work with them. I bet its not anywhere in the West of Wirral is it?

And? My grandparents couldn't afford their own home. My parents only just managed it.

You talk as if its only recently that people can't afford a house. You might be convieniently forgetting the massive house price boom during the Labour years. I bought my house in 2001 for £56,000. In just two years it shot up to £165,000.

Well Gibbo that was NEW Labour and the person who lead that right wing party was perhaps the most evil world leader of our times. A failed barrister, liar, a hyprocrite and a murderer. He soaked the Middle East in blood, killed hundreds of our troops and crippled thousands more and lead to the deaths of 2,500.000 + Muslims.He started a conflict based on lies that still threatens our safety daily while he gets £85,000 a shot for after dinner speaking.

No one should own property. All housing should be well run social housing with low rents and protected tenancies.

I see your trying to change history again Gibbo, tell me again who was in power 1980- 1990 when the property market went berserk with gazumping and garages being sold for hundreds of thousands around London, oh yes wasn't it Margret something, anyway lets not pour water on a good story.

How on earth do you make the assumption that young people in West Wirral would be tory supporters? I mean it's hardly Surrey is it with rising crime, social problems and West Kirby full of gangs of rowdy youths?

I don't know if you actually noticed the last election but a Labour MP was elected in West Wirral! And if we are to believe the polls, there was a swing to Labour among young people which was able to defeat the crusty old crabs hoping to keep the area conservative.

And this just further proves my argument. Young people in West Wirral and everywhere else are no longer shackled by the traditions of their parents. They no longer have pictures of Winston Churchill pasted on their walls. They are not fooled with dreams of empire and the days when half the world was red.

Young people want fairness, honesty and equality for all and they know Jeremy Corbyn will deliver that.

Casper, (much as I still love you ) North and South divide has always been, this time we all had to eat out of the same trough , which is why they argue and think we are the uneducated masses from the North who voted for Brexit.
We don't see adoring crowds for Tories in the same way as Labour, because Tories are not rebel rousers.
Austerity is not just in UK, it is/was all over Europe and US .
In case you hadn't realised Casper, it was the EU has led us into a low wage economy, it is the EU that has overseen massive increases in unemployment far worse than the UK in many EU countries. It is the EU that has changed the rules that UK have had to abide by. It was Blair who signed the New EU Constitution which took us on from the Common Market he also promised a referendum on it in 2004 but never followed through. That's when things changed drastically and the roller coaster continued until they ran out of money (remember that ?) .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/blair-signs-new-eu-constitution-535500.html

Tony Blair joined other EU leaders today in putting his signature to the new European Constitution - as Jack Straw disclosed that the promised referendum on the treaty would not be held until 2006.

The ceremony took place in the ornate surroundings of the Palazzo dei Conservatori in the heart of ancient Rome where the original treaty establishing the Common Market was signed 47 years ago.

It marked the start of a two-year ratification process in which the treaty has to be accepted into law by the national parliaments of all the member states.

Like a number of the leaders putting their names to the document, Mr Blair is committed to holding a referendum on the treaty - any one of which could derail the whole process if the people vote "no".

Correction. Not the EU that introduced UK minimum wage, but they have followed . It was the introduction of the Low Pay Commission (LPC) by Tony Blair's Government in 1999, which advises Governments on what the minimum wage should be.
That's probably why my wages went down by £1.20 an hour when I moved from a different part of the country and did exactly the same job.

Not like you to make mistakes granny, I think it was restructure of gradings and pay rates made by the Whitley council that affected those working in local government, and if you worked in London you would have received the weighting allowance, still £1 20 is a big hit.

The tory rags led by the Daily Malice, continue to make Jeremy Corbyn the anti-Christ. Common accusations are (but not limited to) .................

1. He is a Communist! ...........I am not aware of a shred of evidence to link him with membership of the Communist Party. I believe in a moneyless world where all ownership is common and people live in a mutually beneficial society. I do not think that makes me dangerous.

2. He supports/supported the IRA!..............While not actively supporting the IRA (he stands against terrorism like the rest of us) he did speak out against UK policies in Northern Ireland when he felt there was injustice like many other politicians. During the black and tan period many cross party members and aristocrats condemned British policy in Ireland......no one accused any of them of 'supporting the IRA'. I speak out against the allied bombings of Dresden, Hamburg and other German cities right at the end of the war.....t does not mean I support the Nazi regime.

3.He likes Palestinians!..................How dare he?! What is there to like about people driven from their land, murdered in their beds, denied any rights and made pass through cattle crushes twice a day to go to work?

4.He is a jew baiter! ....................That's because he likes Palestinians and protests against children being shot dead in front of their families.

5. He dresses 'scruffy'!...........OMG! When are we as intelligent human beings going to finally bin this theory that clothes maketh the man, woman, transperson? I dream of the day when fashion is binned and we all wear boiler suits and all look the same. Just because he does not wear £2000 suits he is scruffy! I want to see an end to the masonic lodge driven clothing protocols of parliament.

6. He was disrespectful at Remembrance Sunday! ...................................He was actually the only politician to stay pack and speak to the ordinary veterans while the rest of the royalty rabble and other rabble disappeared to eat canapes and drink champagne.

7. He is dangerous! ........Oh yes he is! He is going to be Prime Minister in May 2019 and the thieves, exploiters and fat cats better get scared BECAUSE HE WILL TURN YOUR WORLD UPSIDE DOWN!!!!!

No, didn't work in London, but worked in Suffolk, which was mainly a rural community.

Further to the North South divide,the Tory government spent £40,000 of taxpayers money trying to hide how rarely its Northern Powerhouse minister visited the North,James Wharton rarely left London and his diary of identifiable locations showed 90% of them were in London, the Information Commissioners office found the government guilty of "wilful procrastination in order to obstruct", plenty of money still left hanging on the magic money tree for the use of the Tory party in its efforts to deceive the public and cover up its indiscretions then.

You need to make up your mind, earlier you were moaning that people can't afford to buy property - now you're saying they shouldn't be allowed it at all. That might be the rule in your Communist little world, but not ours!

Granny dear, poverty does exist in this country despite the fabulous benefits that the poor receive. I have a friend who sold her body to pay for a little holiday at a Welsh caravan park because her 13 year old son had never had a holiday and his school mates were jetting all over the world with their families. No Mum should have to do that. She lives in a damp dismal two bed-roomed flat. She cannot afford clothes or nights out. She starves so he can eat hoping against hope that her sacrifice can help him have a better life. Another friend lost an arm in Iraq and had his body scarred by explosive burns at 23 years of age and his wonderful country that he fought for told him he was not disabled enough for full benefits. Now he is alone living in one room on a pittance. Another who was a registered nurse developed mental health problems and was dismissed without a pension through an act that while serious misconduct, was driven by her mental ill health. This person who once stood beside surgeons in theatre now sits with others as unfortunate drinking cheap street cider. Just a tiny sample of the poor people enjoying the wonderful benefits of this great country. I only get the minimum wage and enough hours to survive. I know what it is like to wake up hungry and go to bed hungry. I wonder how I will keep warm this winter. I wonder how I will feed myself. I am looking forward to patching my clothes for another year. I am just a voice though. Just one voice among many. I am so glad you said the word poverty is used liberally Granny, it makes me feel so much happier. My life must be better than I thought. As a child in care for years I cried myself to sleep every night. As an adult I do not cry......I cannot afford the tears.

Gibbo dear, do try and keep up. When I said they cannot afford to buy property that is a fact. I do not agree with property ownership but I stated that those that do want to buy property cannot.

I believe in shared ownership of everything. For instance if you have a 20 roomed mansion in Oxton you should live in one room and the other nineteen rooms should be given to the poor. Like me.

I am sure you would not have a problem with that? Also your Rolls Royce would be the commune car.

And you said the Labour government caused the property boom, and we all know it was the Thatcher government at the latter end of the 80's. when house prices went through the roof, property speculators buying one day and selling the next

Suzie, I am sorry you were brought up in care and the trauma you must have suffered because of parents or societies inability to do the right thing. I am assuming you were in childcare about 40 yrs ago .
I agree there is inequality in this country, but so there is in every country. Many of us have had issues you mention to deal with, myself included, although no one would have wanted my body parts ! Selling body parts for a holiday, if you don't mind me saying , sounds bloody ridiculous !

Anyway, with all your grievances against today' s society , what do you think Corbyn would do to change it all for you ?

Oh Granny it was not body parts she sold, it was her body to men for sex. I have done it too through sheer hunger and desperation in the very bad old days. I lived on the streets for a while following care and it provided the money to eat. Sometimes oddly it provided warmth through physical contact and comfort too even though you were being abused and used. Just to feel another human hug you when you are freezing cold and wet and hungry can be so lovely and warming until he shoves a £10 note in your hand and walks away ashamed.

What do I want from Jeremy Corbyn and what would he change? He is an honest man, he takes nothing, he feels for people, h is genuine. I WANT A WORLD WHERE US, THE TRASH PEOPLE, THE NOTHINGS. THE NOBODYS ARE GIVEN SOME RESPECT.

That's all. I met Tony Blair once when he came to hostel I was living in and he looked at me, I was 19 arms covered in scars, evidence of drug use on my face and body, unwashed, dirty clothes and he looked at me as though I was a piece of filth, flashed his toothy smile and moved on.

I met Jeremy Corbyn too years later. Believe me that man is Christlike in his compassion. He made me feel special he really did.

Well Suzie, I have no reason to dispute your emotions or even pass judgement. Corbyn is like a father figure to many, and anyone who has felt rejection, isolation and loneliness ( which comes in many forms) will no doubt be comforted by his fatherly mannerisms that sometimes show through.
Having said that, it does not make him the healer of the worlds problems, nor indeed the UK's problems and because he feels like a father figure to so many, it is not good reason to vote for a man who is being a puppet for Marxists and Trotskyites .

He now wants freedom of movement, last year he wanted controlled migration. He wants freedom of movement to get 'cheap labour' into this country.... that to me seems somewhat hypocritical , considering his pretence on humanitarian causes. I call it modern day slavery.

I will however, support him on his intentions towards the Middle East, Palestine, Syria, Yemen and then Myanmar, although how he will be able to bring about any change in those areas, I fail to see. Just a voice in the dark, knowing full well that his words would make no impact whatsoever in those regions, particularly if we should disarm .

...and one of the most famous of those to benefit was Derek Hatton. Member of the Labour party, belonging to Trotskyist Militant group. and who became a property developer and millionaire !! Nuff said !

Reference? I've never seen him say that. I have seen the media attack him on this point as though he had said it, when he hadn't.

28/02/2018

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...to-guarantee-workers-and-migrants-rights

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-not-call-second-eu-11927356

Nowhere does that say Corbyn or the Labour Party has proposed freedom of movement.

so what exactly does he mean by this remark.. ?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-not-call-second-eu-11927356

Mr Corbyn repeated his point that a Labour's Brexit immigration policy would tackle workers being "brought in wholescale" and having their rights undermined.

But asked if he wanted "easy movement" of people into Britain after that, he replied: "Indeed".

Not Labour Party Conference, but I wish Boris would take a long walk off a short pier. He might not like Chequers as many don't but he just has to keep popping up like a bad penny to throw more confusion into the mix at the wrong time, as per usual..

I wish there was a new party which we could feel an affiliation with , rather than all these conflicting politicians ,on both/all sides for the main purpose of brownie points and backroom fiddling. Let's just get on with this Brexit and then please can we have a party of integrity.

Easy movement for those entitled to come in (through points based system or whatever), it doesn't mean free for all, Corbyn has been adamant all along that he does not want freedom of movement and specifically stating that at dates after the "wholesale" comment which was about workers rights.

Seasonal roaming workers are an important part of our farming industry (as they are with other countries), there needs to be a means of allowing them to continue. They are nothing to do with immigration.

There's a difference between migrate and immigrate. He's talking about migrate, which is what we have now (roaming workers) with EU member states. That's the big issue isn't it because all the farmers think they won't be getting their cheap labour for the strawberry season etc. ?

Freedom of movement would allow uncontrolled migration and immigration and that is the problem.

With reference to Venezuela :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-joins-effort-sanction-venezuela-1.4838359

The same countries that did nothing to help Chavez with the corruption problems. Admittedly Maduro has lost it, reminds me of Gordon Brown, they were pretty good in senior roles but their position went their heads when they hit the top..

I agree with you Granny on the abysmal use of cheap labour on farms. Two friends of mine from Eastern Europe worked on a farm in Lincolnshire when they first came to this country.What they described to me makes the lot of black slaves in the USA sound idyllic. Ten people of mixed sexes had to sleep in a rotten touring caravan originally intended for two. They had money taken out of their meagre wages for this 'accommodation' too!

I don't though think Jeremy Corbyn is anyone's puppet. I think his views are his own but I do think we should follow the teachings of Marx. We need to rid ourselves of this horrible materialistic society where people are judged by what they have and how they look and how they speak. On one hand we preach equality while on the other hand we constantly judge people.

I know what it is like to walk into a shop with money in my pocket to buy something and to have the security person immediately zoom in on me and to follow me all around in an intimidating way just because they have judged me as a shoplifter. Yet everyone knows the very best and most successful shoplifters dress in designer clothes and steal very high value items.

The gap between the rich and the poor has widened enormously and the gap between the poor and the not so poor has also widened. Some of us are on the bottom of a muddy swamp trying desperately to swim up but we cannot rise. But occasionally a bubble of our despair slowly struggles upward to finally burst upon the surface and for a brief moment we see the sunlight glow and then the mud closes over and it is dark and cold again.

I doubt I will ever see my dream of a fair and equal society. I will die and the local authority will kindly give me an 'environmental funeral' which is the new name for a pauper's funeral and they will burn my body and dump my ashes where they dumped so many good friends of mine but some little specks of me will break free and blow in the wind and a business woman getting out of her top range Audi will curse at the specks that land on her Jimmy Choo shoes and wipe me off in disgust with a Chanel soaked handkerchief that is immediately condemned to the nearest bin. That will be my epitaph.

Oh come on granny,Thatcher opened pandora's box, and Hatton filled his boots along with many other's the majority no doubt being well heeled Tories and their property speculator friends, I have no time for Degsy and I am not defending him, his actions just show what he really is, there are a few like him in the Labour party, as in all politics we have a percentage that are in it for themselves, my aim was to point out to Gibbo his misconception that it was Labour to blame. xxx

Not saying the Thatcher didn't open Pandor's box. Something to do with tax relief wasn't it ? My point being made was that Derek Hatton had no intentions of following his Socialist Ideals that he obviously thought fit for everyone else, considering his political persuasion.
I think Gibbo was trying to say that the percentages of property increases rocketed in the 2000's and so they did. Tell me how a house in London can be worth £45,million now ?

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/London.html

That's all Casper. Now have a nice weekend. Missing you already. !

Oh Granny! Those houses! The fabulous wealth people must have who buy them! I could not even afford to beg on those roads I would be chased away by the professional London beggars who park their BMWs around the corner.

This made me cry........no one but no one should have wealth like that and please nobody tell me they have 'earned it'! Life is so so so so unfair.