excuse my ignorance, possibly spelling but is there any info on the gobshite plan the council have got for these fields, to turn it into a housing estate?

the only info I have got is that tranmere bought ingleborough off the council for £20,000 as a training field and are now selling it to a builder for 5 million it has a covernant on it which the council is lifting so they can build on it, there have been protests because of it being a memorial site but these have been ignored.....lest we forget

anyone know if there is a petition?

http://www.wilfredowenstory.com/ingleboroughroad.html

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/save-ingleboroughroad/

maximum effort on this one guys!!!

Too late, Too little.

what have you done??

Made my opposition known, months ago. This council does not care when it comes to these type of concerns. Don't take it personally as it was not meant that way. The time for action has passed.

still worth a go!

Its tied into a micky mouse proposal to give Tranmere the Woodchurch leasue center, the two current full size pitches as well as the running track,the preposal is to turn the running track into a number of five a side astro pitches that Tranmere can lease at a fee to the Wirral community.
The Woodchurch community get a couple of football pitches out of the deal on a piece of land that is nothing more than marsh land, and a small community hall that was to be knocked down as part of the councils asset revue.
I challenged Alan Stenard 2 years ago in a public forum about this deal with Tranmere and the council and he denied it existed point blank. This deal was done two years ago signed and sealed, profits and backhanders agreed and divided up.

I wrote to Frank Field and The War Memorials Trust about this.

2014 sees the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of WW1. Wirral is marking this occasion by allowing a minor association football club to build houses on land dedicated to Wilfred Owen and his fallen comrades.

To add insult to injury, we the ratepayers of Wirral have been unwilling sponsors of TRFC to the tune of £1.3 million over the last 10 years. At least that is now coming to an end. Hopefully the buggers will go out of business. The eyesore that is Prenton Park can be levelled and houses built upon it too.

couldn't agree more

Let's be honest if wirral borough council want to do something like say the ingleborough playing fields issue, when have they listened to us protesters. The council don't give a hoot.

ive just dropped him a line or several as well

Do you support a football club?

No, & I strongly disagree with "£1.3 million over the last 10 years" of Council Tax money being spent on it.

No. Professional association football is an idiotic proletarian spectacle played by overpaid oafs in polyester clothes covered in writing.

The rememberance of the fallen of WW1 is more important than some men kicking a bit of leather around a field. Sod the lot of them.

Its not about a football club Lee,its about disrespect to the memory of our fallen soldiers, those memorials were paid for by the people of Birkenhead out of there own pockets and now the council and tranmere are making loads of cash from the sale.Its a shonky deal and as was said before its the anniversary of the start of ww1 and all they think about is money.

The tree's will be replanted and there will be a PROPER memorial incorporated in the new housing plans.

The point raised about the council sponsorship, every Tranmere fan was proud to have Wirral on the front of the shirt.

The council imo got more out of it than Tranmere did.

Ok lets get this right. Ingleborough Road was given to Tranmere Rovers in exchange for its old training ground in Valley Road, a site bigger and therefore probably more valuble than Ingleborough. It was not sold for 20k or given as a gift. As for getting up a petition to stop the developement it`s already been done by a publicity seeking, failed folk singer named Dean Johnson (the owner of the Wilfred Owen museum in Argyle Street, an establishment that very few had even heard of before Deano jumped on this particular campaign, and the pubisher of the website so beloved by some posters to this site who seem to consider it the last word on the subject and quote it as if it were the Bible, whereas it is mainly the made up ramblings of a man who went so low as to publish a picture of French wargraves "photoshopped" onto a picture of Ingleborough) who`s love of Wilfred Owen is matched only by his love of seeing his own name in print and his hatred of TRFC, a hatred it seems is shared by several people on this forum especially philmch. His "Hopefully the buggers will go out of business. The eyesore that is Prenton Park can be levelled and houses built upon it too." is typical of the sort of comment I have come to expect from some of the Plastic Scouse lowlifes that inhabit parts of this region. Just why these people have these feeling about a club which has proudly represented this area for over 125 years is beyond me. I for one am glad the word "Wirral" is off our shirts next season for that very reason. Why bear the name of somewhere that is home to people like Philmch ?

"Promises to re-site the Memorial Plaque (the whole field is the memorial and is listed) do not need to be honoured by the builder as this information from the Planning Office confirms, “The applicant would not be tied to the indicative drawings 1531-119, 120 and 121 - they are simply an indication of the type of development that might be brought forward at the reserved matters stage.” This of course applies to the number of houses as well. When there are millions of pounds in the offing please read between the lines."
Source http://www.wilfredowenstory.com/ingleboroughroad.html

Thread stopping comment, if ever there was one

I am a Tranmere fan and have been all my life, it dosen't mean I support everything that Tranmere do, Peter Johnson is grabbing as much money back before he tries to sell Tranmere on ebay again. Community club yes, Peter Johnsons pockets no

I see you havent minded the £1.3million off the council over the past years and dont mind doing deals with your pet councillors to get what you want, so much for a community club that represents the wirral, they only represent themselves, who will take money off anyone to fund there sad club

What exactly is a "Plastic Scouser" when it's at home ?

This is about a question of respect for our fellow man. FYI I have just as much respect for those who were tragically killed at Hillsborough and the MUFC players who died in the Munich disaster.

To dishonour decent people in such a way in the name of business is just plain wrong.

That's not entirely accurate.



The proposal is for Tranmere Rovers FC to build a leisure centre with flexible spaces to cater for all current users of the centre, together with new changing facilities for community use. The existing swimming pool will remain untouched, and the new centre will accommodate the Club's Admin Dept & changing facilities.

The proposal for the fields is to make use of them to cater for the club and community use by developing state of the art facilities, including:
* 3 multi use sports pitches & 2 half size pitches free for community use.
*10 5 a side fottball football pitches available with free weekly and weekend community use,
* a full size all weather pitch that would be available for use.
* 2 full size pitches and a training area, to fulfil TRFC requirements.

Thw Leisure Centre and fields would be maintained by TRFC to ensure first class facilities long term.



The above information is taken from the Woodchurch Community Public Consultation by Tranmere Rovers FC in January 2011, the community defined as being bordered by the M53 to the east, the Upton Bypass, Arrowe Park Road & Woodchurch Road.

Of the residents that responded to the question: "Overall are you in favour of TRFC moving to Woodchurch", 98.7% responded "Yes".

Now I do accept that in an ideal world, leisure centres should be run by the council, but rightly or wrongly in the current economic climate, the Woodchurch Community Centre has become run down & poorly maintained, and has been subject to speculation re possible closure. Against that backdrop, and given that the fields themselves are unkempt and little more than a convenient dog toilet, I personally believe that the benefits to be accrued by this proposal far outweigh the negatives.

I'd define a plastic scouser as someone not from the city of Liverpool, but who aspires to scousehood, as they feel that it gives them extra kudos, for whatever reason. To that end, they are prepared to detract from their own borough, and are often prepared to deny their roots in favour of pretending to be from a neighbouring city. The irony, which is often lost on them, is that real scousers certainly don't consider the "plastics" as part of them, and are generally ambivalent as regards the surrounding areas, such as Wirral, St Helens or Southport.

Within the context of this debate, I think this is relevant, as there are many Wirralians who attach their allegiances to the big football clubs over the water, and whilst it is a free country, and they have every right to do so, ultimately, their interest is vicarious, as any sporting triumphs and disasters are not genuinely theirs, other than by pretence.

Consequently, at a subconscious level, they feel a sense of shame at prostituting their emotions to a professional football club other than the one that represents their community, with the result that this discomfort manifests itself in misplaced hostility, in this instance to Tranmere Rovers FC.


So, all that said, I believe part of the motivation for some people's stance regarding the Ingleborough Road debate stems from that, which is a shame, as it muddies the waters re the substantive argument, which I guess in short can be summed up as:

a) Some people believe that the Ingleborough Road fields, trees etc are a war memorial in their entirety, and therefore should not be sold or developed under any circumstances,

or alternatively

b) Some people believe that The Fallen can be honoured, remembered & respected as part of the development, and whilst acknowledging the sensitivity of the situation and the opposing view, believe that the positive legacy of the proposal going ahead outweighs the negative aspects.


It is an arguable point, and I don't believe either side has the moral high ground as such. However, some of the emotive language emanating from opponents of the development is, in my opinion, both arrogant and intolerant, as despite their beliefs, which of course they are entitled to, that doesn't give them the exclusivity on truth or superior ethics, but merely a different opinion.

Although I'm not local any more I'll put in my two pence worth.
I think the proposal to build houses on the Ingleborough Rd. site is simply wrong and I don't see how the Council can have the power, or the nerve, to put aside the covenant.
I was raised just a stone's throw from these fields, corner of Ben Nevis Rd./Irvine Rd., when they were the Institute playing fields.
When I was a child, my dad used to take me to see the Rovers play on a Saturday. It was usually cold and wet. It's owing to this experience that I have had a lifetime's dislike of football ( I have a similar dislike of Rugby as I was forced to play it at school).
By all means, let Tranmere Rovers either disappear or move to Woodchurch, when Prenton Park can be used for housing.

Would I be right in saying that tranmere have owned the fields over the last ten years and it they that have let the fields become unkempt and a dog toilet?and that the £1.3million that has been given to tranmere would have been better spent doing the Woody up, now that sounds right to me public money spent on the public instead of a private club.

I was referring to the Woodchurch fields as the dog toilet, so no, Tranmere Rovers have not owned those fields for the last 10 years, or at all, nor been in any way responsible for maintaining them.

I don't live local anymore, but im proud to support Tranmere as it's the team of my home town. Perhaps if enough from the Wirral supported their local team rather than purporting to support the big boys from over the water (tunnel rats watching match of the day) then the club wouldn't need to sell land to survive. My son was born in Germany (i was in the army) and now we live down south he has chosen his local team to support (Aldershot) rather than a big boy like Chelsea. I'm so proud of him for that. I have respect for those supporting their local team, no matter how poor they may be. To the tunnel rats on here, remember that Tranmere is your home team. You may not want to support them, but why spite them just when they have a chance of achieving something good. The memorial will still be a memorial no matter where the plaque is. Tranmere is regenerating Woodchurch and the council got a lot more for the sponsorshp than the money they put in. Thats what sponsorship means. It wasn't a gift! Thank goodness educated people understand these things!

Well at least I can say quite honestly that I'm not a Plastic Scouser. What a relief.

What is particularly sad about this issue is that alternatives have not been looked into. Ideally, TRFC could sell Ingleborough field back to WBC at its purchase price so it could remain as a memorial playing field for Wirral schools.

That way, everyone (myself included) would applaud TRFC. The positive publicity generated would mean that new sponsors would queue up to give them more cash than WBC ever did. In a couple of seasons time they would be murdering City and United and bring home the trophies.

Not at all. Tranmere have never owned those fields. Casper, take a look at what the council got in return for the money. You will be surprised. The club has made nothing. So much so that the fans have been appealing for a sponsor that actually puts money into the club for years.

City and United are big clubs. We need to start small. Liverpoool and Everton maybe

As a former pupil of the Institute and having played at Ingleborough I would obviously have a slight bias to keep the place as a field. My 2 main objections would be the councils willingness to over turn a legal covenant for money and the loss of a green space.. You cant build new houses on the green fields of posh parts of the wirral so why Prenton? Surely the council have a conflict of interest having funded TRFC for so many years.Can you imagine the uproar if the footy pitches in Birkenhead Park were to be housed over. A few dead soldiers dont really matter--as we can see by how our Govt expend them in foreign lands for naf all

Fish, a plaque, a tree, a field, a memorial, what difference? The important thing is that the place represents the fallen.

Most people who live on the estate are for the plans for creating housing on the field, i live close by and it has my support, most people who object dont even live nearby, this has been ongoing for a number of years with regular consulation with the tennants, the developer is going to create a better memorial than present, who actually visits the memorial any way as its locked up behind gates at least in its new position people would be able to pay their respects, all the peole who live in the houses surrounding the fields are getting an addition to their gardens so every one is a winner, its all going through now so thats that, we want it you dont know what your talking about so get over it its too late

So most people backing on to the field want to swop the view of a green open space with marley modern roof tiles? Well I hope they get their garden extensions. My mother in law was promised one by the council then they renaged.

I wasnt arguing specifically about the memorial but things which may affect all of us no matter where we live---the councils attitude to covenants and their willingness to build on green open space --when it suits them

Fair play to a council that takes advantage of the new opportunities to develop, invest in growth, get builders building etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/gr...ssault-on-green-belt-planning-rules.html

Im no Tory but for once they made got something right!

I thought it just represented a bloke from the Wirral who wrote a few lines of dodgy poetry at best.
How does this represent the "fallen"??

Perhaps if enough from the Wirral supported their local team rather than purporting to support the big boys from over the water (tunnel rats watching match of the day) then the club wouldn't need to sell land to survive.



And as for tranmere wasting 1.3 million I think Wirral council got a lot more out of that than tranmere ever did they said they are goin to do a memorial for the fallen soldiers .

I also wonder how many of you anti tranmere ' let's knock down Prenton park ' will go to the big games when the bigger teams are in town

To quote you "I thought" this was about a bloke from wirral, well no its not about a bloke from wirral,its about a bloke from wirral and 87other blokes from wirral who gave their lives,their Memorial field was paid for by bequests and public subscription to remember their sons NOT by the council nor the government,it is now basically been stolen by the council and sold to a football club who are going to sell it on for an obcene profit, so your wonderful tranmere are sh...... all over the goodwill of those Birkenhead people that gave out of rememerance and goodwill.

Plastic scouse lowlifes, tunnel rats,I see the debate has sunk to playground name calling,na na nan na my teams better than yours,your from Birkenhead you have got to support your team that seems to be the theme from most on here,if a lot of you paid more attention to what is happening in this country today and put as much effort into trying to make it fairer place as you put into worshipping your football teams we would all be better off.

If I'm not mistaken wasn't there a set of memorial gates at Ingleborough that Tranmere where meant to be the guardians of and they have now dissapeared from the site most likely to the local scrap man?

people should look over all the facts before declaring trfc are doing wrong,the club is doing its best to survive and put something back into a community that it already serves so well!there are negative people trying to undermine the club using any underhand tactics they can,their lies and exagerations have already made them look silly in the local rag!

no

Just out of interest, as an impartial observer,how do Tranmere Rovers serve the community?

we dont pay council tax for those employed by such to justify its actions on wiki

typical pongo gobbing off

its the convenience of moving such to make money, or dont you understand that pal

Topical question ludwigvan......


http://www.tranmererovers.co.uk/news/article/tric-270313-736147.aspx


Hope that helps?

Tranmere rovers blowing their own trumpet, hows that helping the community,all they are doing is bumming money off everbody the NHS,WBC and no doubt money from some other organisation, how much do they charge kids to kick a ball is it £30.0.0 more like help themselves.

Your hostility to Tranmere Rovers seemingly knows no bounds casper, which I would suggest reflects poorly on your sense of objectivity. Can you not even see fit to give credit where its due, or does that perhaps not suit your agenda, whatever that may be, because clearly you do have one?

Your not a plastic are you?

Not at all just pointing out that for all the hype about being a community club (we do this that and the other)the base line is that they are a business who's prime objective is to make money, nothing wrong with that by the way thats what business is about but dont hide the fact by representing itself as a benefactor of the community,the cold hard facts are the Ingleborough issue is soley about greed and money no community thought no sentiment.

Again, that's your opinion casper, presumably coloured by your agenda, but many others, including myself, have a different view.

The whole Ingleborough controversy has always been a debatable point, but no one side of the debate can justly claim the moral high ground or superior ethics. It comes down to opinion at the end of the day, but the condemnation of any opposing view by one side of the argument is arrogant & unnecessary, in my opinion anyway.

Lets have a simple quick look at morality and ethics:
Ingleborough Field bought by donations and public suscriptions an open green space and memorial park for the use of the community and as a sports field and a lasting memorial to the ultimate sacrifice V bought for a song and currently owned by tranmere fc plc, locked not available to the public, due to be sold for an alleged £5 million profit to build houses on that probably no one can afford , the money being used to protect a business from failure or debt, looks a bit bleak for tranmere on the morality side dont you think?

Not necessarily caper, as a lot of what you have said there is opinion and your own interpretation.

Incidentally, as far as I am aware, even when the fields were owned by BI, they were locked and not accessible to the general public, but that aside, how do you know what people probably could or could not afford in terms of buying a house? Do you even know what the asking price is proposed to be, because I dont?

To be honest casper, by all means throw your mud, and who knows, some of it may stick, in which case you will presumably think your presenting of opinion as fact as a job well done?

Personally, I believe that whilst there are legitimate concerns regarding the previous status of Ingleborough Road field, the benefits to be accrued from the proposed facilities to be available to the public at Woodchurch on balance outweigh these concerns, and that The Fallen can continue to be prominently respected and acknowledged as part of the proposed Ingleborough re-development.

That is just my opinion by the way casper, and I don't seek to force it on you, but maybe you would yourself consider distinguishing between your own opinion and fact, or your interpretation of fact?

Morality itself is subjective, which is why I don't seek to claim the moral high ground, but equally, as when all said and done, each of us is capable of making our own moral judgements, whatever they may be, neither, legitimately can you claim the moral high ground.

There was a tree planted for each of the fallen soldiers I believe paid for by parents of pupils of the BI.
Can anyone tell what trees they are and if they'll be cut down, if so, would there be anything that could be made from them, benches etc with the name of a soldier put on it.

ur missing the point

i could write an article about how hoofing i am, doesnt mean its true

I believe the original trees were poplars, although of the trees that form the perimeter now, I think very few if any, are the originals, or indeed poplars. That said, they are mostly mature trees (i.e. planted before TRFC's ownership) & in deference to the symbolism & out of respect, they are to be retained in the plans.

Incidentally, the plans also incorporate a fully accessible memorial, with the existing plaque prominently featured, unlike at the present time, or indeed under BI's tenure of the field.

To me, there must be a fitting compromise here, maybe the naming of the roads, or even each of the dwellings named in remembrance of The Fallen. It just needs a bit of imagination in my view, for most standpoints to be satisfied, but then there will always be the intransigent I guess!

Lets not get carried away with ourselves 24, some of what I said is opinion ie the difficulty in purchasing property the rest about the field is fact,as regards tranmere providing the facility at Woodchurch well let me see, ref the local rags tranmere is to pay the council £1 million for removing the covenant which the council is going to GIVE back to tranmere for the Woodchurch,tranmere has agreed to pay the upkeep of some of the facilities at Woodchurch(which they will have priority use of )so the accrued benefits at Woodchurch dont really come from tranmere do they? or are you attempting to mislead,opinion or fact? oh what tangled webs we weave.

Can someone tell me what money Mansell have agreed to donate to the Woodchurch community as part of the St Benedicts school build. Is the money that was promised to the community as part of this build being used in the first stage of this Tranmere proposal?