NEW laws that make the display of tobacco in shops illegal will be expensive to enforce and run the risk of driving smaller retailers in Wirral out of business.

The legislation announced today - national No Smoking Day - will come into force for large stores in April next year and smaller shops in 2015.

The Government says it is designed to reduce the number of young people who start smoking.

Under the regulations only temporary displays in "certain limited circumstances" will be allowed.

The changes are being phased-in "to minimise the impact on businesses", according to a statement from the Department of Health.

But a survey of tobacconists by the Globe paints a different picture of local traders deeply concerned the no-display rule will drive some of them out of business.

Sukharj Kullar, assistant manager of Lifestyle Newsagents and Off-License in Birkenhead, fears the long-term effects could be devastating for smaller shops.

He said: “It’s going to cause a lot of trouble. A lot of small, independent traders like ours will go out of business because of the cost of storage.

“We’ve already spent a lot of money on redesigning the layout of the shop and have been told that we now have to put all our cigarettes under the counter.

“I’ve got nine shelves of cigarettes on display now, which all have got to go under the counter. This could cost us thousands.“

Lisa Mayler, manager of Cosmic News in West Kirby, said: “We sell a lot of cigarettes and I think probably still will once the law comes into force.

“We’ve got a cabinet that we have been told has to be used to store cigarettes. This has to have a door on that is closed, so the cigarettes can’t be seen by the public. This also has to locked at all times.

“The problem with that is if you’re having to turn your back on customers to unlock the cabinet, it means you take your eye off what’s going on in the shop."

Imam Salam, owner of Argyle News in Birkenhead, said: “If people want them they will go and buy them, regardless of whether they are not on display in the shop.

“What does concern me is that if you’re ducking down to cigarettes from under the counter, you might miss shoplifters helping themselves to your stock.”

A Wirral-based tobacco supplier, who asked not to be named, said the new law could push business from the supermarkets to the smaller shops.

It could also lead to an increase in sales of illegal tobacco.

Health Secretary Andrew Lansley published "Healthy Lives, Healthy People: A Tobacco Control Plan for England" to coincide with today's national No Smoking Day.

Fiona Johnstone, director of public health for NHS Wirral and Wirral Council, said: “It is good news that the Government has decided to press ahead with legislation which will start to see displays of tobacco for sale disappear.

“They are just another form of advertising to encourage people to buy cigarettes and young people to start smoking.”

According to NHS Wirral, approximately 900 deaths per year in the borough are directly attributed to smoking.

Big Brother Watch, a civil liberties campaign group, hit out at the plans.

A spokesman said: "The Government likes to talk about freedom - how about respecting the rights of smokers? Under Andrew Lansley, the nanny state is alive and well."

THE GLOBE

Why dont they just ban the god damb things. Oh I know, its because of duty.

What a load of bo!!ocks! Just because they're not in plain sight won't make a blind bit of difference. Smack isn't advertised or in the shops but fcuktards still buy it!!

As for banning them. Not really an option. The amount of revenue lost on the sales would push taxes and national insurance up. People moan enough already about the amount of tax and NI they have to pay.

Agree with you wench! If someone wants something they'll buy it, just because they're not the 1st thing see won't make a difference!

How about respecting the rights of non-smokers to not be forced to breathe other people's second-hand smoke? Roll on the day when ALL smoking in public (even outdoors) is banned.

I remember a great truth being aired on the old comedy "Yes Minister"

Something along the lines of - the revenue made in the sale of cigerettes exceeds the money spent on smoking related illnesses.

Not sure if this is still the case, but it wouldnt surprise me....



Indeed, and why not ban drinking alcahol and smokey buses whilst they are at it.... Ban smoking in public, and there are a hell of a lot more things that would need banning too.

The truth of the matter is most people don't give a damn if someone dies of a smoke related disease, apart from a few health professionals maybe, the majority of non smokers kick up a fuss because they don't like the smell, lets be honest about it and stop hiding behind, your concerned about my health, in fact there is no concrete evidence that second hand smoke is a real danger to be concerned about, recent reports suggest that the children of this country are the unhealthiest they have ever been, and that includes times when nearly everyone smoked. The present day laws are more than adequate to protect none smokers from the smells and any health issues, if they do exist. The rights of people should be upheld and a certain section of society should not be witch hunted just because other don't approve. I hate the smell of alcohol and garlic, does that give me the right to have it banned, i wouldn't dream of it.
As far as removing cigs out of sight, whats next, alcohol, cream cakes, anything with cholesterol in it, sugar, salt, climbing up mountains equipment (thats dangerous), the list is endless.

Why? Isn't that a tiny bit reactionary?

Certain Newsagents have been selling tobacco from under the counter for years, so this will make no difference at all

Look at it for a moment, if you smoke you know where to buy it, just because it's not on display doesn't mean that people will be going into Sayers and asking for 20 B&H in case they have it behind the counter, so what difference is this going to make at all.

I might go into a shop and look at some of the displays which might (just might) make me want to try their product instead of my usual, but I don't smoke so when I go into a shop I don't even "see" the cigarettes, I have no idea on the packet designs and couldn't care less how much they cost, so it doesn't matter where they are.

Who remembers the fantastic John Player Special (JPS) Black with Gold writing F1 car, it just looked so different to everything else, didn't make me want to smoke them though, just more fuss about something that will make no difference to anything.

It used to make me wonder when you went to the cinema one side was smoking & the other side none smoking seemed pointless to me & I was a smoker at the time.If people want to smoke they will get there fags from the usual places theres always going to be kids who want to try it, I started when I was 12. The government will never ban it theyd lose to much revenue.

Or how about respecting MY right to inhale a load of tobacco into my lungs and let it be my choice, already banned from smoking in pubs and clubs . . . why??? People always have known them to be smokey enviroments so why enter somewhere if you dont like it? I dont.

I dont like the smell of fish in supermarkets or birkenhead market so can we please ban fishing, oh also the smell of hot chicken is rancid too so please stop that.

Please can we shoot all cows as the methane they give off is the most damaging thing on the planet, also please ban alcohol as I get worried when I see a loud mouthed drunk and worry what their intentions are.

Or maybe and this is just a thought, we can realise that all people enjoy different lifestyles and as long as we respect that life will be much more easier and less worrying, I know smoking is bad for me but I enjoy smoking so will continue to, as someone who drinks will continue to drink.

I think it's a rancid habit, but don't agree with the way it's outlawed as if it's any worse than bingeing on mcdonalds and getting poisoned everynight on alcohol. Nobody is concerned about the effects of those two. Drunken fat barstard.

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Smokers are a resiliant bunch, tell them they cant smoke indoors, they go outdoors no matter what the weather. But this latest test? The memory test? Lets hope smokers have memories good enough to remember where they always bought their cigarettes before they dissapeared.
This government must be in cloud cuckoo land if they think it's the bright shiney colours behind the counter that encourages people to smoke, yes, people choose a brand they like, it's on taste, strength or affordabillity not a snazzy box design.
Kids on the other hand will smoke whatever they are given by friends, can afford or pilfer from parents. Gradually they will get a taste for a favorite and when they start buying will choose the brand they prefer.
Shopkeepers? If it's to become law, live with it, your sales are not suddenly going to dissapear overnight.

If i was a shopkeeper i would put this sign in my window,
I sell cigarettes but i am not allowed to display them, and inside on the counter i would put a sign saying, These are a list of cigarettes I'm not allowed to display. Will they ban something like that?

Bert Your not aloud a "we sell cigarettes" sign up only aloud a small price list inside the shop.. That's what Granada Reports said..

Simple - post up a sign saying

"We are not allowed to say if we sell cigarettes"

or if you wanted to be a bit cheeky ...

"We are not allowed to say if we sell cigarettes - please ask"

Obviously they've learned nothing from the "Prohibition" era in the States, where the liquor trade was chased into the hands of the criminals. Mind you that's what they might be after because they seem to be in cahoots with all the bent gits anyway.

Oy, stop being realistic

If it is going to affect your business, then perhaps you shouldn't be selling things that kills millions of people every year then!!

So we will look forward to all car sales businesses closing down, cars kill multiple amounts each year.

Oh God, someone get onto Mr. Dualit and tell him to stop selling toasters!!

http://cid-73600bf439bbd7c6.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!73600BF439BBD7C6!191.entry

Cars don't kill people when used in the manner in which they are intended (i.e. driven sensibly and defensively to avoid RTIs). Road deaths are caused by a number of factors, but it is not the cars themselves which are the inherent problem, it is the way they are driven a lot of the time.

Whereas, cigarettes DO kill people when used in the manner in which they are intended. There's no escaping facts.

As for costing retailers "thousands" of pounds to change their display - where the hell are they buying their shelves from? The tobacco gantry's will be removed leaving a relatively small space where shelves can go with non-tobacco products. The cigarettes need to go under the counter - where's the cost there then? Perhaps a lockable cabinet? Hardly thousands is it?

I think the idea for removing the display of tobacco is to stop new smokers taking it up. Yes, if a tobacco addict wishes to continue to smoke they still will, but this move is designed to take the temptation away from young people who are exposed to ths things almost everywhere they go to buy sweets!

The Genius that was Bill Hicks says it so much better than I ever could *NSFW*

[youtube]DGNCXyVtni8[/youtube]



My Bold.

The same sweets that cause tooth decay and lead to obesity (if you eat too many) - which is a killer too!!

This goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. There is no comparison between kids sweets and cigarettes. ALMOST ANYTHING can kill if taken too excess - but we are talking about tobacco which causes cancer. Let's not trivialise the matter by talking about tooth decay!

bushnut: I know many people who smoked and lived into their 70/80's, guns and designed to kill so possibly banning them would be more realistic.

Again my body, my lungs, my money, my choice and believe it or not I ENJOY smoking so why should anyone make it illegal ?

Lets ban all things bad, fatty foods, alcohol, anything that causes global warming, religion (the worlds worst enemy) should I go on.

Really just let people live and enjoy their lives and respect that people will make choices and we all make different ones about what we like and enjoy and always will.

I'm not trivialising anything. Poor diet has been proven to contribute to your chance of getting various forms of cancer. Generally, those who have a poor diet have high rates of tooth decay! I know it may come as a shock, but non smokers also get lung cancer!! Also, not all smokers get cancer - lung or any other!! Lung cancer risk factors include: smoking, radon gas, industrial carcinogens, air pollution (contributing factor - cars, which you say don't kill people if used "in the manner they were intended"...kind of blows that comment out of the window), family history, genetic disposition, physical activity, previous cancer treatment, some dietary supplements, diet and alcohol.

My smoking does not put you at risk, so what's the problem!?! I'll give up if and when I'm ready to. That will be nothing to do with putting anyone at risk from the possibility of getting cancer from secondary smoke, the fact that I can't see my brand of fags displayed in a fancy cabinet, or because some arrse tells me how bad it is for me. I'm an intelligent female and am well aware of the risks - it comes down to informed consent.

If you're going to ban smoking, then alcohol should go with it too. An international team of scientists, writing in the Lancet, point out alcohol is a factor in about 60 different diseases.

The researchers found 4% of the global burden of disease is attributable to alcohol, compared with 4.1% to tobacco and 4.4% to high blood pressure.

I know that there's a lot of research out there that will either disprove or back up this particular piece of research, but the fact still remains that alcohol is just as bad. Add onto that, those killed by drink drivers, it makes it worse.

I'm a none smoker, and not ass If people smoke or not as it's their life, the thing is the more you tell someone not to do a thing the more they will want to do it, anyone whos got children with know this. if someone is smoking, I've got two legs to walk away from them. x

Exactly. People who drink and gorge on McDonalds only affect themselves, not anyone else. Smokers selfishly inflict their habit on others. That's the point I am making.

Yeah, and it's my taxes that pay for your treatment when (not if) you get cancer. I don't want to make smoking illegal, but do it in the privacy of your own home where it won't affect others.

And you probably don't realise, 'cos smoking has destroyed your sense of smell, but smokers stink. I sit at the back of the bus and can smell the smokers before they've even taken their seat. Are you really happy to go round smelling like an ashtray?

cigs haveto be sold under the counter in ireland and no displays and it hasnt affected shops, it doesnt bother me either way, if someone wants to smoke they will smoke.

dizdazdoz - I dont believe for one second you enjoy smoking, and this is from a 40 a day habit man, quit for 14 months now, no one enjoys smoking, its just triggers that make you feel like you do, like after a meal, do yourself a favour and quit, I promise you it will be the best thing you will ever do.

No your taxes do not may for my cancer treatment, the taxes of the tobacco will well and truly cover that cost, oh yeah thanks for saying I will get cancer must admit that will be a nice day so thanks for the warning.

Thanks you for saying I smell to.

Iv'e tried quitting in the past and never really as I wanted to more the costs, it may actually be hard to believe but I really do enjoy smoking, I dont drink but use to and can see why other's do, everyone to their own I say.

My Bold.

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally?? So what about the assaults on members of the public, Police and NHS staff, the drink drivers? According to a report in 2008, 45% of all violent crime is alcohol-related (Source: Sheffield University ScHARR study 2008).

The British Crime Survey (2000) estimates that there were around 1.2 million incidents of alcohol-related violence in 1999 (defined as assaults, robbery and snatch thefts in which the victim considered the perpetrator to be 'under the influence' of alcohol).

Just over a third of incidents were between strangers and a further third between acquaintances. A quarter were domestic assaults between partners, relatives or household members. Only 5% were muggings (robbery and snatch thefts). Incidents were by no means trivial.

More than half of incidents resulted in some form of injury. In a fifth of incidents, the perpetrator had a weapon which they threatened to use, most often a glass or drinking bottle.

The majority of incidents of alcohol-related violence between strangers and between
acquaintances did not come to the attention of the police (61% and 63%).

If you want to read the whole report Click Here

Drink driving stats - Take your pick of the latest rates from roughly 2007



And some of the tax that is put on the cigarettes, along with the tax and NI that working smokers pay too. Or are you self funding the NHS all on your own!?! Not all smokers get cancer either.

Did anyone watch the program last night about tobacco and customs and excise.
Over 100 million pounds is being spent to catch illicit tobacco factories in the UK set up with pouch packets loose tobacco sent from China.
if 9 OUT OF 10 container loads of loose tobacco were confiscated
such is the profit if one got through the smugglers would still be making a profit.
The UK is losing billions in unpaid duty.
If you buy any Golden Virginia pouches with OT 7069 on the price tag it is a counterfeit package and when it was analysed was found to have had 20 times the amount of lead in it compared to a genuine packet

Yes i watched it,am furious now i know whats in the tobacco
cos our local shop in new ferry got caught with it
He only got 200 hours of community work,which is pathetic

not wonder i have had a bad chest god knows what i've been smoking
i have never bought of carboots or markets thought i was safer buying legitamate tobacco from a shop

I CAN SEE THIS RESULTING IN AN ALL OUT SLANGING MATCH BETWEEN MEMBERS
EVERYONE TO THEIR OWN INTERESTS

LETS TRY TO CALM THIS TOPIC DOWN PLEASE.

Eh?? It's a rather healthy debate. It's just easier to back up statements with evidence, otherwise it's just opinion. Nothing's getting personal. IF it does get to that point (which I doubt it will), I'm sure the Mods can cope

Must admit I like healthy debate, however I dont like being told I WILL get cancer and that I smell, why get personal and say someone will get cancer surely MAY would of been better.

I think that lungs that look like a pair of hanging kippers are quite attractive, and they way the tarry goo just drips off them leaves me ecstatic. The way heavy smokers wheeze and cough their lungs up after the least exertion is music to my ears. The reason is that I gave up smoking 28 years ago and I'm glad that I did. Cough on boys.

I'd like to add my two cents worth here. I agree totally with what Wench, Bert and several others are saying. My dad never smoked nor drank. My mum however began smoking the dreaded "Woodies" when dad was off in the war. She was raising three kids on her own with bombs dropping all round, rationing and all the other nasties of the time. At this point I'll tell you that she ALWAYS went outside, therefore there was no second-hand smoke. There are no points for guessing which of them died first. Dad had two heart attacks and a massive stroke and left way before mum did. I worked for many years as a therapist in nursing homes and tried every avenue I knew to get tax free smokes for the old diggers. Believe me, those old chaps had few pleasures left in life and smoking was one of them. I could never understand why travellers were allowed duty free smokes and these brave old men could not get the same prices. The powers that be never once bothered to reply to my correspondence. On the alcohol debate - I never yet heard of a man/woman smoking a packet of fags and then kicking and beating another human to death just for the "fun" if it as so often happens these days. Right - I'm off my soap box now. To each his own I say.

Good post Ruth

Didn't realise there were so many Temperate folks on wiki wirral, how very refreshing.

well said ruth.....round of applause x